junnie, after reading your meandering below, I ask again:

why is it you think "viscosity" is in any particular way different from
"pumpability"?

Gene Kearns
Date: 10/9/2004 7:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 09 Oct 2004 22:57:58 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

junnie, why is it you think "viscosity" is in any particular way different
from
"pumpability"?


You sorta missed the point, there, dood.....

Viscosity is resistance to flow and, therefore, is related to
pumpability.

The point that you have missed is that 0W is not SAE 0(it is
undefined), 5W is not SAE 5, nor is 10W equivalent to SAE 10. "W"
numbers are NOT a viscosity reference. The Cold Crank Simulator (CCS)
and Mini-Rotary Viscometer (MRV) tests are used to determine the oil's
"W" grade and are, thus, not related to viscosity.

Sorry, but 15W-50 is not 15 weight in the winter and 50 weight in the
summer.... it never had a calendar.....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

junnie, now listen closely. race engines are ALWAYS prelubed thoroughly before
engine startup, so therefore have no need for the rapid pumping of oil to
bearing needing pressure upon engine startup.

btw, race engine builders still use high price oil and still feel the money is
well-spent even if you still don't understand why.

junnie, why is it you -- with your decades of experience that finally qualified
you for an A&E license -- didn't know this?

junnie, you are babbling. wanna know what the men/women who build extreme
performance race engines use? It goes $10 to $15 a quart, and they are
happy
to pay the price.

Yep. and it is straight weight, too!

As you have posted no data,

junnie, I did post data. I posted that no major oil company makes a special
oil for the marine market (save 2-cycle oils, which are not part of this
discussion).

Can you produce *ANY* data that oils promoted by *ANY* of the marine
engine manufacturers is unaltered, rebottled automotive oil?

That oil grade level (SG, SH, SJ) on the bottle.

I ask yet again, though this time I removed the fluff you can concentrate:

junnie, after reading your meandering below, I ask again:

why is it you think "viscosity" is in any particular way different from
"pumpability"?


Please read for content....

Viscosity is resistance to flow and, therefore, is related to
pumpability.

The point that you have missed is that ... Mini-Rotary
------------------------- Viscometer ------------------------------- (MRV)
tests are used to determine the oil's
"W" grade and are, thus, not related to viscosity.

huh?

Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

Sorry, but 15W-50 is not 15 weight in the winter and 50 weight in the
summer.... it never had a calendar.....

junnie, no one ever said that. what was said is the 15w-50 oil pumps like 15
weight oil upon engine startup at ordinary ambient temps (and thus pumps
pressure to all bearings needing pressure oil MUCH more quickly than 50 weight
oil would) AND the film strength equivilent to 50 weight oil at engine
operating temps (which 15 weight oil would not).

junnie, it appears you are not all that familar why multi-weight oils were
developed nor why engine builders accross the board reccomend their use.

junnie, you move all over the place trying not to look like a fumb duck. but
you always end up clearly showing everyone here that you really didn't
understand the question in the start and clearly don't understand the question
in the end. Are you as dumb as jeffies?

let me explain it to you in simple terms, junnie. use multi-grade oil in your
engine. It is the oil made by oil companies for your engine. It is the oil
the designers of your engine intend you use in your engine. your engine will
last longer, junnie if you use multi-grade oil in it.

Gene Kearns
Date: 10/9/2004 8:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 09 Oct 2004 23:42:32 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

I ask yet again, though this time I removed the fluff you can concentrate:

junnie, after reading your meandering below, I ask again:

why is it you think "viscosity" is in any particular way different from
"pumpability"?


Please read for content....

Viscosity is resistance to flow and, therefore, is related to
pumpability.

The point that you have missed is that ... Mini-Rotary
------------------------- Viscometer ------------------------------- (MRV)
tests are used to determine the oil's
"W" grade and are, thus, not related to viscosity.

huh?


Jax,

I don't know what to tell you, here. You've either misinterpreted the
test or haven't read the specification. 10W is NOT, I repeat, NOT a 10
weight oil. It is not a relationship of viscosity vs pumpability. It
is merely shear strength.

The only thing I can do is refer you to ASTM D-2602 and/or D-5293, for
THAT is the definition of what xxW means with respect to oil
specification.

One point I might be able to guide you on is that multi-vis oil is, by
definition, Non-Newtonian....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

junnie, you are more stupid than jeffies. At least he has a wife to keep from
acting like you.

use multi-grade oil, junnie. that is what the oil companies produce for your
engine, that is what the designers of your engine intended you use.

Gene Kearns
Date: 10/9/2004 8:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 09 Oct 2004 23:47:03 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

Sorry, but 15W-50 is not 15 weight in the winter and 50 weight in the
summer.... it never had a calendar.....

junnie, no one ever said that. what was said is the 15w-50 oil pumps like
15
weight oil upon engine startup at ordinary ambient temps

Not true. 15W does not equate with SAE 15.

(and thus pumps
pressure to all bearings needing pressure oil MUCH more quickly than 50
weight
oil would)

Most probably.... depending on temperature. (Be reasonable... don't
always assume a dry bearing at startup. Thin oil (multi-vis)will
drain from bearings, whereas thick oil will not.)

AND the film strength equivilent to 50 weight oil at engine
operating temps (which 15 weight oil would not).


Unlikely. Again, dependent upon temperature. 10W-50 and SAE 50
should offer the same protection at 100 degrees C(per ASTM spec.)... I
don't have any data to support your opinion at temperatures divergent
from the ASTM spec... do you?

junnie, it appears you are not all that familar why multi-weight oils were
developed nor why engine builders accross the board reccomend their use.


Jax, I know exactly why they were developed... I also know that not
ALL engine builders recommend their use (accross the board )(sic)....

Are there any disadvantages in using multi-vis oils? Warning, think
before you post... I have the answer and (as usual) supporting data...

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

Yeah, ok, this has degenerated to the point that it usually does.

junnie, it always gets to the same point. namely, you have no understanding
the concepts and minimal familiarity with the words of the google'd overview.

Yeah, ok,

junnie, you are more stupid than jeffies. At least he has a wife to keep
from
acting like you.

use multi-grade oil, junnie. that is what the oil companies produce for
your
engine, that is what the designers of your engine intended you use.

Yeah, ok, this has degenerated to the point that it usually does.
Whatever. Have it your way... dood. Go for it.....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide