genie, you have again failed to understand even the most elemental issues. the
discussion is not and has not ever been about the forces exerted on an anchor
system by steady winds with no waves.

go stand in the corner.

"Gene Kearns"
Date: 9/27/2004 8:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 27 Sep 2004 11:50:36 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

....and often on too short of scope and then "drag anchor" across the
anchorage hitting boats....

Finally, the truth comes out.... this is about scope, not chain.....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

karl, knock it off. next time READ the frickin thread before you respond. the
thread was about shock loads and some frickin idgit's claim that anchor are
SUPPOSED to drag because otherwise the shock loads (on an all chain rode) would
break the deck chocks off.

(Karl Denninger)
Date: 9/27/2004 9:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: . net


In article ,
JAXAshby wrote:


schackloof, you belong in jail. with all of your kind.


His "kind"? What, pray tell, do you mean by that?

his kind are the kind who purposely endanger the lives of others because
they
are too frickin lazy to anchor properly. you know, hoary, the clowns who
"drag
anchor" when in fact they purposely didn't set it correctly.

Oh give me a break.

If you have enough scope (like 10:1) anchors don't drag below their holding
capability. ABOVE it, they drag, of course.

Storm loads are extreme. There is also no guarantee that something won't
foul your rode (like, for example, another boat) and cause you to get loose
- often without any obvious reason AFTER the fact.

There were a LOT of boats that got loose in Ivan around here. I'll bet that
most of them got loose not because of their own mis-anchoring, but because
someone else dragged into them - it only takes one pinball in the machine to
screw dozens of people.

That's why I do EVERYTHING in my power to avoid anchoring out for such an
event, because while I have a shizload of brand new 3/4" rode to use for my
anchors, I cannot control the other guy who gets loose, and it takes very
little to screw you severely in a storm like this.

One little pontoon boat that comes from shore and blows into your rode will
hose you for sure.

--
--
Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights
Activist
http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do!
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Storm loads are extreme.

no ****. and several orders of magnitude greater when on all chain.

625 WHEN?

Prior to 1985 or so, a 625 was pretty goddamn good.

bullsquat. 625 on math was always poor at best. such students were advised to
go into poly sci or art history.

I took the SATs in, oh,
1961, I'd say

haory, you can't remember when you were a junior in high school?

and hoary? given such a poor score in math when you were a junior, why didn't
you retake the test when you were a senior?

He got a
b.s. in physics, then got a master's in physics,

okay.

then a doctorate in
biology,

how did he do that, hoary without getting enough credits in bio to also get a
bs and ms in bio as well?
and then, of all things, a law degree.

such people usually become patent attorneys.

base kisser, it has been explained again and again and again and agian and
again and
agin.............................................. ........................
.................................................. .........................
.................................................. .........................
.................................................. .........................
.................................................. .........................
....................................... and again.

If you're anchoring in a
bad storm and don't have enough scope, your anchor will break out no
matter what you use for rode.

nope. 10 to 1 on chain breaks the anchor loose, while 6 to 1 on nylon
doesn't.

sorry, dood, dem's da physics. which, of course, you don't understand
anything
except you wanna kill and/or injure someone. you wanna go to jail, dood.
have fun with the 300# drug dealer, dood. you are going to be there a
couple
years.

Well, "dood", why don't you explain "da physics" to us? Let's just see
what you know about vector mechanics, "dood".

Harry's perfect score is one of his stories that is right up there with his
Doctor Doctor wife and his 36' Lobster Boat.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
hoary, with your genius IQ and perfect score on verbals, you certainly do
lack
any normal understanding of the English language.

Harry Krause
Date: 9/27/2004 8:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

JAXAshby wrote:
genie, you are -- as usual -- confused. I have never stated that
anchors
are
supposed to drag. a dragging anchor means the sailor has made an error.
all
chain sailors make this error on purpose because they are too lazy to
anchor
properly and wish to use an electric windlass (which is easier to use
with
all
chain).

Really? I have an "electric" windlass, and a mostly rope, partially
chain rode...and you know what? It is perfectly easy to use. When I want
to raise the anchor, I simply engage the engine, move towards the rode,
and the windlass winds it up as we go. Usually the anchor comes up
easily. If it is hard stuck, I reverse, let out line, attach an anchor
ball, and use it to raise the anchor.

This would be easier with chain? If I were using all chain, I'd need an
anchor ball big as the pustule on your shoulders...

You're full of ****, JaxAss. There are so many variables in anchoring
that for you to claim that those who use all chain are lazy just shows
what a dumb**** you really are.






We today have a president of the United States who looks like he is the
son of Howdy Doody or Alfred E. Newman, who isn't smarter than either of
them, who is arrogant about his ignorance, who is reckless and
incompetent, and whose backers are turning the United States into a
pariah.

What, me worry?

genie, you anchor that way you will most certainly drag anchor on all chain.
*you* do that and hurt someone ***I*** will personally make absolute certain
you are charged with criminal activity. bet on it, just as you can bet on
being charged for driving drunk and injurying someone.

do you also drive a boat drunk, genie? and you justify it how?

"Gene Kearns"
Date: 9/27/2004 10:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 27 Sep 2004 11:50:36 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:


the people I have had a problem with are those frickin lazy *******s who use
all chain (because it runs through an electric windlass easier) and often on
too short of scope and then "drag anchor" across the anchorage hitting boats
all while claiming it is "an act of god" and not their fault at all. I was
nearly hit by two such lazy *******s in twenty minutes, one of which went on
to
take out a 52 foot boat behind me.


Here is what an anchor manufacturer says.... of course, what do they
know when faced with the superior intellect of Jaxian omniscience....

In rough weather, minimum recommended scope is 4 for an all-chain
rode, 7 for a combination chain/rope rode, and 10 for an all rope
rode. It is recommended that zinc coated Grade 30 or zinc coated Proof
Coil chain be used with load rated high quality zinc coated shackles
to US Federal specification RR-C-271d Type IV or equivalent. These
shackles exceed the strength of the chain while having pin diameters
small enough to pass through the extremity links of the chain. Where a
larger lower quality shackle of similar strength is used as a
substitute, a riveted joining link one size larger than the chain is
recommended for connection of the shackle to the chain.

=====References======
http://www.bruceanchor.co.uk/cast.htm
http://www.andrews.com/kysc/bt/anchorin.htm
--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

In article ,
JAXAshby wrote:


karl, knock it off. next time READ the frickin thread before you respond. the
thread was about shock loads and some frickin idgit's claim that anchor are
SUPPOSED to drag because otherwise the shock loads (on an all chain rode) would
break the deck chocks off.

Jaxass, YOU knock it off.

There's nothing wrong with all-chain rode.

You need to pay attention to this thing called caternary. It provides the
snubbing on an all-chain rode, and if the scope is sufficiently long the
load comes on slowly, just as it does on a rode made out of line.

If you actually paid attention to the physics of the matter you would
realize that as the "bow" comes out of the chain the load increases -
logrythmically.

Exactly as it does when you stretch nylon line.

The difference is that chain is HEAVY and the effort required to "straighten
the bow" in it is very significant. This effort is applied gradually - the
load does not appear in a "snap".

In either case if you exceed the snubbing capability you take the full
load against the entire anchor system, and I guarantee you that it is
quite possible to tear out deck hardware with all-nylon rodes.

The 3/4" line that I use for "severe service" (both dock lines and anchoring)
has a breaking test of somewhere around 11,000 lbs. That is approximately
1/4 of the displacement of my vessel; I have no reasonable belief that I
could suspend my vessel by the four corners on the bow and stern cleats
by that line without some piece of the deck or hardware failing.

Note as well that in tests of combination chain/rope rodes it is common to
find post-separation that when the nylon rode parts the chain has been
permanently deformed and welds have begun to come apart, indicating that
the chain was very near the failure point as well.

Most storm anchoring failures that are actually your own fault are either
due to insufficient scope or chafe. But the huge majority of failures in a
storm are caused by something - either another boat or some LARGE piece
of debris - fouling your mooring and causing the pull on your anchor to
no longer be along the seabed floor. Once that happens you're screwed,
no matter what kind of anchor and rode you have.

I have a piling next to my air conditioning condensor at the house that took
a direct hit from a neighbor's dock section during Ivan. It is bent over at
a 45 degree angle. It did its job of protecting my condensor, but if that
section had come loose and hit your anchor rode while your boat was anchored
out it would have either cut if (if nylon) or pulled you loose (irrespective
of WHAT it is) and you'd be screwed.

During Ivan I was at a dock with a passel of lines spider-webbing my boat in
place. Post-storm when I returned to the (safely tied up and undamaged)
vessel my chafe gear on the lines that took the predominant load from the
east winds was severely damaged. For chafe gear I use cut-up fire hose -
arguably the toughest stuff around for that purpose.

Without it the lines on that side of the boat would have almost certainly
failed; the damage to the chafing gear was quite an impressive testament
to the loads taken during the storm.

--
--
Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do!
http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING!
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