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#1
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Water in all cylinders
After taking the boat out just a few times this your I couldn't crank the
engine anymore. Replaced the starter, removed all spark plugs, cranked and fount all cylinders in a 5L V8 OMC 305 engine flooded. Pumped out water, flushed cyl. (sprayed inside the cylinders and cranked) with WD-40 few times until dry and finally sprayed 1 can of fogging oil into all 8 cylinders. I pulled the intake manifold and there is lots of rust in the intake passages in both, intake manifold and both cylinder heads. Since all 8 cyl. were flooded at the same time with fresh water I do not suspect exhaust. (verified by creating a closed loop coolant system and eliminating exhaust altogether). Same issue. I also noticed rust on the bottom of the carb (4 barrel). My suspect is a leak between cooling passages and cylinders intakes in the intake manifold. Can't also imagine how a cracked block would flood all 8 cyl. at once. Please indicate how to test, diagnose the problem. Any thoughts on the intake idea? Thx, Paul |
#2
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-- "Paul" wrote in message . cable.rogers.com... After taking the boat out just a few times this your I couldn't crank the engine anymore. Replaced the starter, removed all spark plugs, cranked and fount all cylinders in a 5L V8 OMC 305 engine flooded. Pumped out water, flushed cyl. (sprayed inside the cylinders and cranked) with WD-40 few times until dry and finally sprayed 1 can of fogging oil into all 8 cylinders. I pulled the intake manifold and there is lots of rust in the intake passages in both, intake manifold and both cylinder heads. Since all 8 cyl. were flooded at the same time with fresh water I do not suspect exhaust. (verified by creating a closed loop coolant system and eliminating exhaust altogether). Same issue. I also noticed rust on the bottom of the carb (4 barrel). My suspect is a leak between cooling passages and cylinders intakes in the intake manifold. Can't also imagine how a cracked block would flood all 8 cyl. at once. Please indicate how to test, diagnose the problem. Any thoughts on the intake idea? Thx, Paul I had the same problem this year in my boat. I have 454 chevys. Water was in several cyls. last fall when we winterized. We run it clean and fogged it heavy. In the spring both motors had water in several cylinders again. There was even 3 or 4 qts. of water in the oil in both motors. The problem was the boat cover over time lost its waterproof qualities and rain water was able to run on the motors. The air cleaners are poorly designed for water running on the top air cleaner cover. Water will run into the wire screen elements and into the carbs. After discovering this I now put plastic bags over the air cleaners after use and have had no more water trouble. A better answer would be to put another type of air cleaner top on ( bigger than the orig). Maybe a china cap type thing. Dixon |
#3
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"dixon" wrote in message news:OaL3d.79018$MQ5.33035@attbi_s52...
-- "Paul" wrote in message . cable.rogers.com... After taking the boat out just a few times this your I couldn't crank the engine anymore. Replaced the starter, removed all spark plugs, cranked and fount all cylinders in a 5L V8 OMC 305 engine flooded. Pumped out water, flushed cyl. (sprayed inside the cylinders and cranked) with WD-40 few times until dry and finally sprayed 1 can of fogging oil into all 8 cylinders. I pulled the intake manifold and there is lots of rust in the intake passages in both, intake manifold and both cylinder heads. Since all 8 cyl. were flooded at the same time with fresh water I do not suspect exhaust. (verified by creating a closed loop coolant system and eliminating exhaust altogether). Same issue. I also noticed rust on the bottom of the carb (4 barrel). My suspect is a leak between cooling passages and cylinders intakes in the intake manifold. Can't also imagine how a cracked block would flood all 8 cyl. at once. Please indicate how to test, diagnose the problem. Any thoughts on the intake idea? Thx, Paul I had the same problem this year in my boat. I have 454 chevys. Water was in several cyls. last fall when we winterized. We run it clean and fogged it heavy. In the spring both motors had water in several cylinders again. There was even 3 or 4 qts. of water in the oil in both motors. The problem was the boat cover over time lost its waterproof qualities and rain water was able to run on the motors. The air cleaners are poorly designed for water running on the top air cleaner cover. Water will run into the wire screen elements and into the carbs. After discovering this I now put plastic bags over the air cleaners after use and have had no more water trouble. A better answer would be to put another type of air cleaner top on ( bigger than the orig). Maybe a china cap type thing. Dixon I had the same kind of problem, only mine was getting in when I rinsed the engine hatches off after a day of heavy fishing, the rinse water ran down onto the air cleaners and down the carb. How did I fix it? Your going to love my high tech fix, I put shower caps over the air cleaners before rinsing the boat off, and left them on until the next time I used the boat. Hey, it worked. |
#4
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Possibly getting in thru the spark arrestor. Or a cracked/rusted out intake
manifold. "Paul" wrote in message . cable.rogers.com... After taking the boat out just a few times this your I couldn't crank the engine anymore. Replaced the starter, removed all spark plugs, cranked and fount all cylinders in a 5L V8 OMC 305 engine flooded. Pumped out water, flushed cyl. (sprayed inside the cylinders and cranked) with WD-40 few times until dry and finally sprayed 1 can of fogging oil into all 8 cylinders. I pulled the intake manifold and there is lots of rust in the intake passages in both, intake manifold and both cylinder heads. Since all 8 cyl. were flooded at the same time with fresh water I do not suspect exhaust. (verified by creating a closed loop coolant system and eliminating exhaust altogether). Same issue. I also noticed rust on the bottom of the carb (4 barrel). My suspect is a leak between cooling passages and cylinders intakes in the intake manifold. Can't also imagine how a cracked block would flood all 8 cyl. at once. Please indicate how to test, diagnose the problem. Any thoughts on the intake idea? Thx, Paul |
#5
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Intake looks great from top and is in generally v. good condition. Of course I cannot eliminate water getting into the intake through flame arrestor (especially that I do not have a special cover that goes on top) but when the engine is run on a water hose there is steam coming out of the outdrive that would indicate some leak. Both head gaskets were replaced and the old ones did not show any leakage or damage. Here's my trouble: - can't imagine cracked block as this would not fill the cylinders with water (not all of them at once), or will it? - head gaskets replaced, intake manifold inspected and intake gaskets replaced (no crack signs from the bottom) - rust in all intake passages from carb and under the carb - rust in the head intakes, both sides especially the middle passages closest to the carb - water in the oil, oil filter and crankcase - cylinders filled with fresh water (quite a lot) - no indication of a cracked block (on the outside) - no watermarks on the flame arrestor indicating water dripping from the engine cover - steam from the exhaust (that eliminates water dripping into the intake) - exhaust manifolds were cleaned and there are no rust marks inside - the only rusted area is the bottom of the carb, inside of the intake manifold and all cylinders/spark plugs. I tried to look into every possibility and am still puzzled. Only explanation would be a cracked intake manifold leaking into the intake passages then via cylinders down into the crankcase. Am I wrong? How to pinpoint the source of the problem? "JamesgangNC" wrote in message ink.net... Possibly getting in thru the spark arrestor. Or a cracked/rusted out intake manifold. "Paul" wrote in message . cable.rogers.com... After taking the boat out just a few times this your I couldn't crank the engine anymore. Replaced the starter, removed all spark plugs, cranked and fount all cylinders in a 5L V8 OMC 305 engine flooded. Pumped out water, flushed cyl. (sprayed inside the cylinders and cranked) with WD-40 few times until dry and finally sprayed 1 can of fogging oil into all 8 cylinders. I pulled the intake manifold and there is lots of rust in the intake passages in both, intake manifold and both cylinder heads. Since all 8 cyl. were flooded at the same time with fresh water I do not suspect exhaust. (verified by creating a closed loop coolant system and eliminating exhaust altogether). Same issue. I also noticed rust on the bottom of the carb (4 barrel). My suspect is a leak between cooling passages and cylinders intakes in the intake manifold. Can't also imagine how a cracked block would flood all 8 cyl. at once. Please indicate how to test, diagnose the problem. Any thoughts on the intake idea? Thx, Paul |
#6
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"Paul" wrote in message . cable.rogers.com... After taking the boat out just a few times this your I couldn't crank the engine anymore. Replaced the starter, removed all spark plugs, cranked and fount all cylinders in a 5L V8 OMC 305 engine flooded. Does this mean that water came out of all 8 cylinders after yo had removed the plugs? Since all 8 cyl. were flooded at the same time with fresh water I do not suspect exhaust. (verified by creating a closed loop coolant system and eliminating exhaust altogether). I am not sure what you mean here. How does creating a closed loop cooling eliminate the exhaust? Did you create a closed loop cooling system, run the motor and have all 8 cylinders fill with water again? When you ran the motor this way, did you not have any water running through the exhaust system? My suspect is a leak between cooling passages and cylinders intakes in the intake manifold. Can't also imagine how a cracked block would flood all 8 cyl. at once. If I understand the situation properly it doesn't sound like the water enters the cylinder(s) while the engine is running, but rather after the engine is shut down. If you get water into one cylinder it is easy for it to migrate to the other cylinders, all it takes is for the intake valve to be open. The water will flow from the flooded cylinder up into the intake manifold. At least one other intake valve will be open at the same time which means it will flood also. When you crank the engine the remaining cylinders will draw in any water remaining in the intake manifold and they will flood as well. You apparently have a leak between the water jacket and either a cylinder directly or into the intake manifold. This could be from a gasket failure, either the head gasket (fairly common failure) or the intake manifold gasket (pretty rare, but certainly possible). If the failure is in the head gasket a compression check should show which cylinder is the problem. If the problem is not a gasket then I would bet that the intake manifold has rusted through to the cooling system. If you still have your "closed system" rigged up try pressurizing it and seeing if it holds pressure. This is a standard test on radiator systems, and you can purchase a small pump and pressure guage that installs in place of the radiator cap for this purpose. The cooling system should be able to hold 13 PSI without any significant loss. Rod |
#7
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"rmcinnis" wrote in message ... "Paul" wrote in message . cable.rogers.com... After taking the boat out just a few times this your I couldn't crank the engine anymore. Replaced the starter, removed all spark plugs, cranked and fount all cylinders in a 5L V8 OMC 305 engine flooded. Does this mean that water came out of all 8 cylinders after yo had removed the plugs? Since all 8 cyl. were flooded at the same time with fresh water I do not suspect exhaust. (verified by creating a closed loop coolant system and eliminating exhaust altogether). I am not sure what you mean here. How does creating a closed loop cooling eliminate the exhaust? Did you create a closed loop cooling system, run the motor and have all 8 cylinders fill with water again? When you ran the motor this way, did you not have any water running through the exhaust system? My suspect is a leak between cooling passages and cylinders intakes in the intake manifold. Can't also imagine how a cracked block would flood all 8 cyl. at once. If I understand the situation properly it doesn't sound like the water enters the cylinder(s) while the engine is running, but rather after the engine is shut down. If you get water into one cylinder it is easy for it to migrate to the other cylinders, all it takes is for the intake valve to be open. The water will flow from the flooded cylinder up into the intake manifold. At least one other intake valve will be open at the same time which means it will flood also. When you crank the engine the remaining cylinders will draw in any water remaining in the intake manifold and they will flood as well. You apparently have a leak between the water jacket and either a cylinder directly or into the intake manifold. This could be from a gasket failure, either the head gasket (fairly common failure) or the intake manifold gasket (pretty rare, but certainly possible). If the failure is in the head gasket a compression check should show which cylinder is the problem. If the problem is not a gasket then I would bet that the intake manifold has rusted through to the cooling system. If you still have your "closed system" rigged up try pressurizing it and seeing if it holds pressure. This is a standard test on radiator systems, and you can purchase a small pump and pressure guage that installs in place of the radiator cap for this purpose. The cooling system should be able to hold 13 PSI without any significant loss. Rod Cheaper to take the boat to someone to do the pressure test. It is about $135 for the radiator pressure tester. They have been making these things for 50 years, and the price is still way to high. |
#8
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The problem with pressure test is that it won't show the leak placement if
I'm correct. It would be a great after-repair confirmation that everything is OK though, especially in comparison with the initial one. I have no testing equip. and can't take the boat to the repair shop (boat is on blocks now). I've put the engine back together after replacing both head gaskets and it failed the probe miserably so I have to revisit the issue again. "Calif Bill" wrote in message nk.net... "rmcinnis" wrote in message ... "Paul" wrote in message . cable.rogers.com... After taking the boat out just a few times this your I couldn't crank the engine anymore. Replaced the starter, removed all spark plugs, cranked and fount all cylinders in a 5L V8 OMC 305 engine flooded. Does this mean that water came out of all 8 cylinders after yo had removed the plugs? Since all 8 cyl. were flooded at the same time with fresh water I do not suspect exhaust. (verified by creating a closed loop coolant system and eliminating exhaust altogether). I am not sure what you mean here. How does creating a closed loop cooling eliminate the exhaust? Did you create a closed loop cooling system, run the motor and have all 8 cylinders fill with water again? When you ran the motor this way, did you not have any water running through the exhaust system? My suspect is a leak between cooling passages and cylinders intakes in the intake manifold. Can't also imagine how a cracked block would flood all 8 cyl. at once. If I understand the situation properly it doesn't sound like the water enters the cylinder(s) while the engine is running, but rather after the engine is shut down. If you get water into one cylinder it is easy for it to migrate to the other cylinders, all it takes is for the intake valve to be open. The water will flow from the flooded cylinder up into the intake manifold. At least one other intake valve will be open at the same time which means it will flood also. When you crank the engine the remaining cylinders will draw in any water remaining in the intake manifold and they will flood as well. You apparently have a leak between the water jacket and either a cylinder directly or into the intake manifold. This could be from a gasket failure, either the head gasket (fairly common failure) or the intake manifold gasket (pretty rare, but certainly possible). If the failure is in the head gasket a compression check should show which cylinder is the problem. If the problem is not a gasket then I would bet that the intake manifold has rusted through to the cooling system. If you still have your "closed system" rigged up try pressurizing it and seeing if it holds pressure. This is a standard test on radiator systems, and you can purchase a small pump and pressure guage that installs in place of the radiator cap for this purpose. The cooling system should be able to hold 13 PSI without any significant loss. Rod Cheaper to take the boat to someone to do the pressure test. It is about $135 for the radiator pressure tester. They have been making these things for 50 years, and the price is still way to high. |
#9
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"Paul" wrote in message .rogers.com... The problem with pressure test is that it won't show the leak placement if I'm correct. It would be a great after-repair confirmation that everything is OK though, especially in comparison with the initial one. I have no testing equip. and can't take the boat to the repair shop (boat is on blocks now). I've put the engine back together after replacing both head gaskets and it failed the probe miserably so I have to revisit the issue again. "Calif Bill" wrote in message nk.net... "rmcinnis" wrote in message ... "Paul" wrote in message . cable.rogers.com... After taking the boat out just a few times this your I couldn't crank the engine anymore. Replaced the starter, removed all spark plugs, cranked and fount all cylinders in a 5L V8 OMC 305 engine flooded. Does this mean that water came out of all 8 cylinders after yo had removed the plugs? Since all 8 cyl. were flooded at the same time with fresh water I do not suspect exhaust. (verified by creating a closed loop coolant system and eliminating exhaust altogether). I am not sure what you mean here. How does creating a closed loop cooling eliminate the exhaust? Did you create a closed loop cooling system, run the motor and have all 8 cylinders fill with water again? When you ran the motor this way, did you not have any water running through the exhaust system? My suspect is a leak between cooling passages and cylinders intakes in the intake manifold. Can't also imagine how a cracked block would flood all 8 cyl. at once. If I understand the situation properly it doesn't sound like the water enters the cylinder(s) while the engine is running, but rather after the engine is shut down. If you get water into one cylinder it is easy for it to migrate to the other cylinders, all it takes is for the intake valve to be open. The water will flow from the flooded cylinder up into the intake manifold. At least one other intake valve will be open at the same time which means it will flood also. When you crank the engine the remaining cylinders will draw in any water remaining in the intake manifold and they will flood as well. You apparently have a leak between the water jacket and either a cylinder directly or into the intake manifold. This could be from a gasket failure, either the head gasket (fairly common failure) or the intake manifold gasket (pretty rare, but certainly possible). If the failure is in the head gasket a compression check should show which cylinder is the problem. If the problem is not a gasket then I would bet that the intake manifold has rusted through to the cooling system. If you still have your "closed system" rigged up try pressurizing it and seeing if it holds pressure. This is a standard test on radiator systems, and you can purchase a small pump and pressure guage that installs in place of the radiator cap for this purpose. The cooling system should be able to hold 13 PSI without any significant loss. Rod Cheaper to take the boat to someone to do the pressure test. It is about $135 for the radiator pressure tester. They have been making these things for 50 years, and the price is still way to high. Did you have the heads machined when replacing gaskets? Sometimes the angle between the head and the intake changes enough that the intake does not seal to the heads. Pull the intake and look at the gasket to see if it is compressed all over. Auto parts stores do rent tools and you may be able to rent a pressure checker. |
#10
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No, heads were not machined as the gaskets were evenly compressed. I cleaned
them with an emery cloth only and reinstalled them. Neither was the intake manifold. Everything looked OK. The symptoms did not change after the reinstallation. Compression was the same, no other surprises. Engine started and ran OK. Again, I stress that the carb bottom rust looks awfully suspicious. I do not suspect any head, block issue but I may be wrong. Rust was present only in the area surrounding the intake: underneath the carb and along the intake passages (see pictures). Did you have the heads machined when replacing gaskets? Sometimes the angle between the head and the intake changes enough that the intake does not seal to the heads. Pull the intake and look at the gasket to see if it is compressed all over. Auto parts stores do rent tools and you may be able to rent a pressure checker. |
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