Gunner wrote:

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:50:59 GMT, "Jeffrey McCann"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 03:11:28 GMT, "Jeff McCann"
wrote:


"Julian D." wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:52:12 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...

I despise malcontent protesters.

Well then, you're probably not the best person to consider the
consequences of such action, are you?

jps


I'm wise enough to avoid doing anything that would get my skull
crushed by a police baton.

It takes real guts to confront the cops in a peaceful protest. It wasn't
so
long ago that swinging batons, firehoses, tear gas, and attack dogs were
the
all too common approach to dissent. Very recently, we saw official
intimidation and unlawful detentions used against protester in NYC.
Standing up to be counted is a dangerous undertaking, even in our
supposedly
enlightened era. But sometimes it just has to be done, and that means
somebody has to find the guts to do it.

Jeff

Please provide cites of unlawful police activity in NYC during the
Rep. Convention. No blogs please.


Anti-war activist Rachael Perrotta was sitting on the front steps of a
friend's house in Boston when four men approached her and told her they were
from the FBI.

They asked Perrotta for her name. An experienced political protester,
Perrotta, 24, refused to answer. If they wanted to ask her questions, she
said, they had to talk to her lawyer first.

At this point, lawyers and legal experts say, the FBI agents should have
turned around and left. But they didn't.

"They just kept asking questions," Perrotta said. "It was a frightening
experience."

For 20 minutes, Perrotta said, the agents ignored her refusals to respond
and continued to question her about possible violence during the
presidential race and about other anti-war protesters in what government
officials say was an attempt to prevent violence during election-year
political events.

The FBI acknowledges it has interviewed dozens of political activists across
the country in recent weeks, having received intelligence "that individuals
were planning to conduct violent criminal activity" at the Democratic
convention in Boston last month, and the coming Republican National
Convention in New York.

But lawyers, human rights advocates and some U.S. lawmakers say the
questioning has crossed the line into intimidation.

Ill bet they did. And Ill further bet that they are mostly Left
Liberals who are complaining.

"I believe that the FBI is genuinely concerned about uncovering terrorist
activity and violence," said Donna Lieberman, executive director of the New
York Civil Liberties Union, but added that agents should honor protected
dissent, the core of democracy.

Attorney General John Ashcroft defended the FBI interviews at a news
conference yesterday. Ashcroft said FBI agents interviewed only protesters
they believed were plotting to firebomb media vehicles at the Democratic
convention or might have known about such plots.


Sounds fair to me.


Ashcroft said suggestions that the interviews were aimed at stifling
protests were an "outrageous distortion."

"We interviewed a very limited number of people that we believed were either
participating in a plan to criminally and violently disrupt the Democratic
National Convention, or individuals that might have known something about
that plan," Ashcroft said.

Sounds fair.

Joe Parris, an FBI spokesman in Washington, said officers from the bureau's
Joint Terrorism Task Force are entitled to question activists about possible
violence around high-profile election-year events. "The interviewees were
free to talk to us or not. Nobody was taken into custody, locked up for
interrogation. Nobody was given the third degree," he said.

Sounds fair.


But some legal experts say it is inappropriate for law enforcement agents to
continue questioning people who have invoked their right to counsel.

Some..operative word "some" Ill bet those legal experts are likely to
be mouthpieces for the Left Libs.

"It is a form of badgering, and it is clearly designed to coerce or
intimidate witnesses with the objective being that they should speak to them
without counsel," said Jonathan Turley, a George Washington University law
professor.


Where in the PC is badgering not a legitimate tactic? And please
define Badgering.

This week, several Democratic lawmakers called for a Justice Department
investigation into whether the questioning violated the protesters' First
Amendment rights.

Oh hooo! Several Democrats...of course!

In a letter to the Justice Department, Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., the
ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, and two other panel
members, Reps. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., and Robert Scott, D-Va., said the FBI
appeared to be "engaged in systematic political harassment and intimidation
of legitimate anti-war protesters."


Now there is a trio of leftists that we can judge as fair and
balanced..indeed...snicker...

Gary Bald, assistant director of the FBI's counterterrorism division, said
the bureau anticipates violent protests at the upcoming Republican National
Convention in New York but does not have enough evidence to move against any
group or person.

Federal investigators have infiltrated some groups and are monitoring
protest plans published on the Internet.

New York officials have said they expect hundreds of thousands of people to
stage demonstrations around the convention, which begins Aug. 30.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/nation...312_fbi21.html
*****
Three Democratic lawmakers on the House Judiciary Committee have criticized
the FBI's interviews of protesters around the country. They asked the
Justice Department's inspector general to investigate what they called
"possible violations of First Amendment free speech and assembly rights."

[snip] The committee's ranking Democrat, Michigan's John Conyers, along with
Reps. Robert C. "Bobby" Scott of Virginia and Jerrold Nadler of New York,
said in a letter that the FBI "appears to be engaged in systematic political
harassment and intimidation of legitimate anti-war protesters." [snip]
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in636357.shtml
*****
NEW YORK (AP) - Long-haired and bearded, Sebastian Licht said he set out
Tuesday to celebrate his 22nd birthday, only to be mocked by a police
officer as "Jesus" and swept up in one of the largest mass arrests in the
nation's history.
He emerged two days later from court - smelly, bleeding and determined to
become the activist he says police feared he was.

One of more than 1,700 people arrested this week at demonstrations aimed at
the Republican National Convention, Licht gained his freedom on Thursday
morning. A judge, frustrated at the city's pace in moving protesters through
the criminal justice system, ordered the immediate release of nearly 500 of
them.

Most of those arrested were anti-GOP protesters, but some insist they got
snared in the chaos. Licht puts himself in the latter category.

Wearing a Polo Sport Ralph Lauren shirt and khaki shorts, Licht described
his 6 p.m. arrest Tuesday in Herald Square, where he said he approached a
subway station that he learned was closed only to be caught in a police
sweep of the area.

"Because I have long hair and a beard, they took me," he said.

Being in the wrong place and at the wrong time had nothing to do with
it, correct?


At one point after his arrest, he said, a police officer saw him laughing.
"What's so funny, Jesus?" he recalled the officer asking.

Fair question.

He said the officer then tightened the handcuffs and said, "It's not so
funny now, is it, Jesus?" Blood seeped from a small cut on his wrist as he
recalled the incident.

bummer. I wonder if he will loose the hand.

Now free, he said he planned to look for a protest rally, inspired by his
experience and the many political discussions he heard while waiting with
protesters to appear in court and be released. He called it the "birth of my
activism."

Surrrre he does.

Among more seasoned activists emerging from court was Mikel Stone, 29, of
Denver, who described his time at a detention center on Pier 57 as a
nightmare, part of the same two-day odyssey experienced by Licht. "My throat
still hurts and my joints are achy," he said.

He said a thick black oily residue on the floor of Pier 57 stained his pants
during the two days he was locked up after he was caught in a police net
arrest at Herald Square on Tuesday.

Oh horrors..the Seasoned Activist got his pants dirty!!!!!! the
horror..the horror.....

A political science student and anti-war activist, Stone said he believed
harsh detention conditions were part of an effort by the city to be "cruel
and demoralizing."

What..did he want MTV?
Still, he said he planned to protest Thursday night.

Hummmm sounds like he got out quick enough and he wasnt too
demoralized....
Tim Kulik, 22, a photography student at the Rochester Institute of
Technology who was transporting film for photographers at The Associated
Press when he was arrested late Tuesday on his bicycle, was freed Thursday
after 35 hours.

He said he was scraped on his face and bruised on his leg and neck when a
police officer tackled him before other officers completed the arrest. The
officer who tackled him later tightened his handcuffs when he asked that
they be loosened, he said.

And why was he tackled? And where was his press credentials?

"As far as police, they're good, pretty objective and professional, but then
I encountered plenty of disrespectful police who abuse their positions," he
said.

At least they didnt call him Jesus.

Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said officers acted with restraint. In a
statement Thursday, he said there had been "exaggerated claims and outright
falsehoods" about the conditions at the post-arrest screening site at Pier
57.

That I can believe.
He said most detainees are held there for 90 minutes, none was there longer
than eight hours and all had immediate access to toilet facilities and
drinking water.

Some probably were held longer, particularly those that refused to
provide ID. Note that in most protest literature..its recommended that
you never go to a protest with ID, as it intentionally slows down the
booking process.

Civil rights lawyer Norman Siegel, who led Thursday's court fight to get the
detainees freed, said the long detentions were illegal, especially since the
time in overcrowded, dirty conditions was disproportionate to the alleged
misdemeanor crimes, such as disorderly conduct.

Snicker.....

Neocons delight in the suffering of others.

Thousands of new enemies were born from these actions.

"People engaged in real crimes are getting out quicker than the protesters,"
he said. "It's an Alice in Wonderland approach."

No..its called..Those arrested for more serious crimes already are in
the computer, already know the drill and provide proper ID and do not
try to slow down the booking process.

No sympathy from me.

Gunner the terrorist.

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 00:05:19 GMT, Nicholas Heyward
wrote:

Gunner wrote:

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:50:59 GMT, "Jeffrey McCann"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 03:11:28 GMT, "Jeff McCann"
wrote:


"Julian D." wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:52:12 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...

I despise malcontent protesters.

Well then, you're probably not the best person to consider the
consequences of such action, are you?

jps


I'm wise enough to avoid doing anything that would get my skull
crushed by a police baton.

It takes real guts to confront the cops in a peaceful protest. It wasn't
so
long ago that swinging batons, firehoses, tear gas, and attack dogs were
the
all too common approach to dissent. Very recently, we saw official
intimidation and unlawful detentions used against protester in NYC.
Standing up to be counted is a dangerous undertaking, even in our
supposedly
enlightened era. But sometimes it just has to be done, and that means
somebody has to find the guts to do it.

Jeff

Please provide cites of unlawful police activity in NYC during the
Rep. Convention. No blogs please.


Anti-war activist Rachael Perrotta was sitting on the front steps of a
friend's house in Boston when four men approached her and told her they were
from the FBI.

They asked Perrotta for her name. An experienced political protester,
Perrotta, 24, refused to answer. If they wanted to ask her questions, she
said, they had to talk to her lawyer first.

At this point, lawyers and legal experts say, the FBI agents should have
turned around and left. But they didn't.

"They just kept asking questions," Perrotta said. "It was a frightening
experience."

For 20 minutes, Perrotta said, the agents ignored her refusals to respond
and continued to question her about possible violence during the
presidential race and about other anti-war protesters in what government
officials say was an attempt to prevent violence during election-year
political events.

The FBI acknowledges it has interviewed dozens of political activists across
the country in recent weeks, having received intelligence "that individuals
were planning to conduct violent criminal activity" at the Democratic
convention in Boston last month, and the coming Republican National
Convention in New York.

But lawyers, human rights advocates and some U.S. lawmakers say the
questioning has crossed the line into intimidation.

Ill bet they did. And Ill further bet that they are mostly Left
Liberals who are complaining.

"I believe that the FBI is genuinely concerned about uncovering terrorist
activity and violence," said Donna Lieberman, executive director of the New
York Civil Liberties Union, but added that agents should honor protected
dissent, the core of democracy.

Attorney General John Ashcroft defended the FBI interviews at a news
conference yesterday. Ashcroft said FBI agents interviewed only protesters
they believed were plotting to firebomb media vehicles at the Democratic
convention or might have known about such plots.


Sounds fair to me.


Ashcroft said suggestions that the interviews were aimed at stifling
protests were an "outrageous distortion."

"We interviewed a very limited number of people that we believed were either
participating in a plan to criminally and violently disrupt the Democratic
National Convention, or individuals that might have known something about
that plan," Ashcroft said.

Sounds fair.

Joe Parris, an FBI spokesman in Washington, said officers from the bureau's
Joint Terrorism Task Force are entitled to question activists about possible
violence around high-profile election-year events. "The interviewees were
free to talk to us or not. Nobody was taken into custody, locked up for
interrogation. Nobody was given the third degree," he said.

Sounds fair.


But some legal experts say it is inappropriate for law enforcement agents to
continue questioning people who have invoked their right to counsel.

Some..operative word "some" Ill bet those legal experts are likely to
be mouthpieces for the Left Libs.

"It is a form of badgering, and it is clearly designed to coerce or
intimidate witnesses with the objective being that they should speak to them
without counsel," said Jonathan Turley, a George Washington University law
professor.


Where in the PC is badgering not a legitimate tactic? And please
define Badgering.

This week, several Democratic lawmakers called for a Justice Department
investigation into whether the questioning violated the protesters' First
Amendment rights.

Oh hooo! Several Democrats...of course!

In a letter to the Justice Department, Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., the
ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, and two other panel
members, Reps. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., and Robert Scott, D-Va., said the FBI
appeared to be "engaged in systematic political harassment and intimidation
of legitimate anti-war protesters."


Now there is a trio of leftists that we can judge as fair and
balanced..indeed...snicker...

Gary Bald, assistant director of the FBI's counterterrorism division, said
the bureau anticipates violent protests at the upcoming Republican National
Convention in New York but does not have enough evidence to move against any
group or person.

Federal investigators have infiltrated some groups and are monitoring
protest plans published on the Internet.

New York officials have said they expect hundreds of thousands of people to
stage demonstrations around the convention, which begins Aug. 30.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/nation...312_fbi21.html
*****
Three Democratic lawmakers on the House Judiciary Committee have criticized
the FBI's interviews of protesters around the country. They asked the
Justice Department's inspector general to investigate what they called
"possible violations of First Amendment free speech and assembly rights."

[snip] The committee's ranking Democrat, Michigan's John Conyers, along with
Reps. Robert C. "Bobby" Scott of Virginia and Jerrold Nadler of New York,
said in a letter that the FBI "appears to be engaged in systematic political
harassment and intimidation of legitimate anti-war protesters." [snip]
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in636357.shtml
*****
NEW YORK (AP) - Long-haired and bearded, Sebastian Licht said he set out
Tuesday to celebrate his 22nd birthday, only to be mocked by a police
officer as "Jesus" and swept up in one of the largest mass arrests in the
nation's history.
He emerged two days later from court - smelly, bleeding and determined to
become the activist he says police feared he was.

One of more than 1,700 people arrested this week at demonstrations aimed at
the Republican National Convention, Licht gained his freedom on Thursday
morning. A judge, frustrated at the city's pace in moving protesters through
the criminal justice system, ordered the immediate release of nearly 500 of
them.

Most of those arrested were anti-GOP protesters, but some insist they got
snared in the chaos. Licht puts himself in the latter category.

Wearing a Polo Sport Ralph Lauren shirt and khaki shorts, Licht described
his 6 p.m. arrest Tuesday in Herald Square, where he said he approached a
subway station that he learned was closed only to be caught in a police
sweep of the area.

"Because I have long hair and a beard, they took me," he said.

Being in the wrong place and at the wrong time had nothing to do with
it, correct?


At one point after his arrest, he said, a police officer saw him laughing.
"What's so funny, Jesus?" he recalled the officer asking.

Fair question.

He said the officer then tightened the handcuffs and said, "It's not so
funny now, is it, Jesus?" Blood seeped from a small cut on his wrist as he
recalled the incident.

bummer. I wonder if he will loose the hand.

Now free, he said he planned to look for a protest rally, inspired by his
experience and the many political discussions he heard while waiting with
protesters to appear in court and be released. He called it the "birth of my
activism."

Surrrre he does.

Among more seasoned activists emerging from court was Mikel Stone, 29, of
Denver, who described his time at a detention center on Pier 57 as a
nightmare, part of the same two-day odyssey experienced by Licht. "My throat
still hurts and my joints are achy," he said.

He said a thick black oily residue on the floor of Pier 57 stained his pants
during the two days he was locked up after he was caught in a police net
arrest at Herald Square on Tuesday.

Oh horrors..the Seasoned Activist got his pants dirty!!!!!! the
horror..the horror.....

A political science student and anti-war activist, Stone said he believed
harsh detention conditions were part of an effort by the city to be "cruel
and demoralizing."

What..did he want MTV?
Still, he said he planned to protest Thursday night.

Hummmm sounds like he got out quick enough and he wasnt too
demoralized....
Tim Kulik, 22, a photography student at the Rochester Institute of
Technology who was transporting film for photographers at The Associated
Press when he was arrested late Tuesday on his bicycle, was freed Thursday
after 35 hours.

He said he was scraped on his face and bruised on his leg and neck when a
police officer tackled him before other officers completed the arrest. The
officer who tackled him later tightened his handcuffs when he asked that
they be loosened, he said.

And why was he tackled? And where was his press credentials?

"As far as police, they're good, pretty objective and professional, but then
I encountered plenty of disrespectful police who abuse their positions," he
said.

At least they didnt call him Jesus.

Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said officers acted with restraint. In a
statement Thursday, he said there had been "exaggerated claims and outright
falsehoods" about the conditions at the post-arrest screening site at Pier
57.

That I can believe.
He said most detainees are held there for 90 minutes, none was there longer
than eight hours and all had immediate access to toilet facilities and
drinking water.

Some probably were held longer, particularly those that refused to
provide ID. Note that in most protest literature..its recommended that
you never go to a protest with ID, as it intentionally slows down the
booking process.

Civil rights lawyer Norman Siegel, who led Thursday's court fight to get the
detainees freed, said the long detentions were illegal, especially since the
time in overcrowded, dirty conditions was disproportionate to the alleged
misdemeanor crimes, such as disorderly conduct.

Snicker.....

Neocons delight in the suffering of others.

Thousands of new enemies were born from these actions.

Oh no! I dont know how I can live with new enemies consisting of
whining ball less ****tards.

The horror..the horror....snicker.

I notice you dont address the charges in the article. I find that
interesting. Says volumes about why you are so whiney.

Your implosion is due...remember..not across the wrist..length wise.



"People engaged in real crimes are getting out quicker than the protesters,"
he said. "It's an Alice in Wonderland approach."

No..its called..Those arrested for more serious crimes already are in
the computer, already know the drill and provide proper ID and do not
try to slow down the booking process.

No sympathy from me.

Gunner the terrorist.

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke