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My remark:

Bush's supporters
will all agree that debating Kerry is "beneath" Bush, anyway, and applaud
the
refusal.

Was followed by:

Good idea, Chuck. I think Bush *would* be lowering himself to get on a stage
with Kerry.

Thanks for supporting my opinion, John. :-)

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
My remark:

Bush's supporters
will all agree that debating Kerry is "beneath" Bush, anyway, and applaud
the
refusal.

Was followed by:

Good idea, Chuck. I think Bush *would* be lowering himself to get on a
stage
with Kerry.

Thanks for supporting my opinion, John. :-)

Seems you came back from vacation with your shorts in a knot and a bruised
ego Chuck. Chill.

Do you think his statements accusing soldiers of widespread atrocities helped
the attitudes of the people at home?


Do you think that isolating a portion of a person's testimony, out of context,
and feigning blindness or indifference toward the balance helps you appreciate
the truth?

Gould 0738 wrote:

Do you think his statements accusing soldiers of widespread atrocities helped
the attitudes of the people at home?


Do you think that isolating a portion of a person's testimony, out of context,
and feigning blindness or indifference toward the balance helps you appreciate
the truth?


Speaking of the attitudes of people at home, it is important for
political and military leaders to speak the absolute truth to the people
on all matters, but especially on those of war, when their sons and
daughters might be sent to foreign lands to fight and die.

Too bad the Bush Administration has nothing in it but liars.

--
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
And don't forget to pay your taxes so the rich don't have to!

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Do you think his statements accusing soldiers of widespread atrocities
helped
the attitudes of the people at home?


Do you think that isolating a portion of a person's testimony, out of
context,
and feigning blindness or indifference toward the balance helps you
appreciate
the truth?

How so? Here is the testimony:
----------------

I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several
months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably
discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes
committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on
a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of
command.
It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit, the
emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were reliving their
experiences in Vietnam, but they did. They relived the absolute horror of
what this country, in a sense, made them do.

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut
off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned
up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians,
razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs
for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of
South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and
very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this
country.

http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=3875422

Gould,

Kerry was forced into going to Viet Nam like most of the people over there.
He did everything he could think of to get out of Viet Nam, like most of
those drafted. Unlike most draftee's, he succeeded in getting out in 4
months. More power to him, I would have done the same thing.

But don't ask for a deferment to go to Paris, file for 4 purple hearts after
receiving minor cuts and then claim to be a war hero. He was an average GI,
doing the best he could in a terrible war, when he came home, he was against
the war, stated their was wide spread atrocities and he was guilty of
committing them the atrocities. That is his right as an American citizen,
but considering these facts, he should run on his record of the past 20 yrs.
and not make his 4 month military record a center piece of his campaign.

Kerry bought this upon himself, when he tried to make himself out as a war
hero, which is a gross distortion of the facts.




"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Do you think his statements accusing soldiers of widespread atrocities
helped
the attitudes of the people at home?


Do you think that isolating a portion of a person's testimony, out of
context,
and feigning blindness or indifference toward the balance helps you
appreciate
the truth?

Kerry was forced into going to Viet Nam like most of the people over there.
He did everything he could think of to get out of Viet Nam, like most of
those drafted.

Kerry volunteered.


Unlike most draftee's, he succeeded in getting out in 4
months.

He wasn't a draftee.
He served 16 months in Viet Nam. One 12-month tour and 4 months of a second
tour. How many people volunteered for a second tour or served any portion of
one?

Just goes to prove that if enough people repeat the same lies over and over,
pretty soon a great number of folks begin to believe them.



But don't ask for a deferment to go to Paris, file for 4 purple hearts after
receiving minor cuts and then claim to be a war hero.

Wasn't it three purple hearts? And a Bronze Star. And a Silver Star.

BTW, any soldier qualifies for the purple heart if he or she suffers any combat
related injury, (has to be caused directly by enemy action), if that combat
related injury requires medical attention. There doesn't even need to be a loss
of blood. Broken bones and contusions count. If you get nicked in the arm and
need two or three stitches to sew it up, that meets the
qualification for purple heart.

The only "heroism" attached to Kerry's record was fishing Rassman out of the
river.

Kerry bought this upon himself, when he tried to make himself out as a war
hero, which is a gross distortion of the facts.

Absolutely a critical campaign mistake.
It lets the Repubs shift the focus to arguing about things that happened 35
years ago rather than taking a hard look at what's going on today. *Exactly*
the break a failing administration needed.

Gould,
Kerry enlisted in the Navy to get out of being drafted into the army. He
requested a 2S deferment, was denied and chose the Navy as a better
alternative to the army.

I do appreciate the correction concerning this first term of duty, I was not
aware of that. The question I have is if he spent 12 months in VN, he knew
we were burning villages, raping the population, killing innocent people,
and committing extreme atrocities and war crimes, why did he volunteer for a
term of duty?


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Kerry was forced into going to Viet Nam like most of the people over
there.
He did everything he could think of to get out of Viet Nam, like most of
those drafted.

Kerry volunteered.


Unlike most draftee's, he succeeded in getting out in 4
months.

He wasn't a draftee.
He served 16 months in Viet Nam. One 12-month tour and 4 months of a
second
tour. How many people volunteered for a second tour or served any portion
of
one?

Just goes to prove that if enough people repeat the same lies over and
over,
pretty soon a great number of folks begin to believe them.



But don't ask for a deferment to go to Paris, file for 4 purple hearts
after
receiving minor cuts and then claim to be a war hero.

Wasn't it three purple hearts? And a Bronze Star. And a Silver Star.

BTW, any soldier qualifies for the purple heart if he or she suffers any
combat
related injury, (has to be caused directly by enemy action), if that
combat
related injury requires medical attention. There doesn't even need to be a
loss
of blood. Broken bones and contusions count. If you get nicked in the arm
and
need two or three stitches to sew it up, that meets the
qualification for purple heart.

The only "heroism" attached to Kerry's record was fishing Rassman out of
the
river.

Kerry bought this upon himself, when he tried to make himself out as a war
hero, which is a gross distortion of the facts.

Absolutely a critical campaign mistake.
It lets the Repubs shift the focus to arguing about things that happened
35
years ago rather than taking a hard look at what's going on today.
*Exactly*
the break a failing administration needed.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Kerry was forced into going to Viet Nam like most of the people over
there.
He did everything he could think of to get out of Viet Nam, like most of
those drafted.

Kerry volunteered.


Unlike most draftee's, he succeeded in getting out in 4
months.

He wasn't a draftee.
He served 16 months in Viet Nam. One 12-month tour and 4 months of a
second
tour. How many people volunteered for a second tour or served any portion
of
one?

The log book of the USS Gridely has been checked and it was in SEA for five
weeks during Kerry's 12 month tour on the ship. So, Kerry did not serve 16
monts in country.


Just goes to prove that if enough people repeat the same lies over and
over,
pretty soon a great number of folks begin to believethem.

It appears that you are falling into the repeating of lies.



But don't ask for a deferment to go to Paris, file for 4 purple hearts
after
receiving minor cuts and then claim to be a war hero.

Wasn't it three purple hearts? And a Bronze Star. And a Silver Star.

For scratches and wounds due to Kerry's own incompetence.

BTW, any soldier qualifies for the purple heart if he or she suffers any
combat
related injury, (has to be caused directly by enemy action), if that
combat
related injury requires medical attention. There doesn't even need to be a
loss
of blood. Broken bones and contusions count. If you get nicked in the arm
and
need two or three stitches to sew it up, that meets the
qualification for purple heart.

You are correct. But, Kerry should be ashamed for asking for purple hearts
for scratches.

The only "heroism" attached to Kerry's record was fishing Rassman out of
the
river.

Kerry bought this upon himself, when he tried to make himself out as a
war
hero, which is a gross distortion of the facts.

Absolutely a critical campaign mistake.
It lets the Repubs shift the focus to arguing about things that happened
35
years ago rather than taking a hard look at what's going on today.
*Exactly*
the break a failing administration needed.

Maybe if Kerry had done more in the Senate he could run on that record.

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 12:09:46 -0400, Bert Robbins wrote:


You are correct. But, Kerry should be ashamed for asking for purple hearts
for scratches.


As it is a two man race, it seems to me we should be comparing the two
candidates military records. I have found a site that does just that.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/4/21/19216/5237