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#11
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Revised COLREGS bell requirements
After perhaps 8 or so surveys over the years being both purchase
surveys (which are the expensive ones) and insurance surveys ( which are the cheaper ones), I've never had any surveyor mention anything about the CG mandated equipment other than fire extinguishers begin sufficuent and current. None of any of the surveyors checklists contained anything about flares, signalling devices, PFDs, waste management plan, oil discharge placard, waste discharge rules placard, etc. Those items are left to the CG safety inspection or the courtesy inspections conducted by the CG Aux. No insurance has had any complaints other than sending me a form that I could indicate that I complied or wil comply with the "required" items. Doug s/v Callista "Rod McInnis" wrote in message ... "Doug Dotson" wrote in message ... A surveyor has no business in this kind of thing. Why do you say that? I have had several surveys done, and each time I had the option of a "limited" survey focusing on a specific item or a "general" survey that covered overall value, integrity and condition. The insurance company is going to want the overall survey, and they will want to know that the vessel has all the "recommended" safety equipment, which is often over and above the required list. In order to provide such a survey to the insurance company, the surveyor DOES have the business of being in this kind of thing. Rod McInnis |
#12
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Revised COLREGS bell requirements
Some of these surveyors, I believe, are on the insurance co. 'short list' or
referral list. I suspect that looking into all of the safety equipment gives the surveyor a feel for the skippers attitude towards safety /condtion of the vessel. I usually make every effort to have all the gear laid out so he doesn't have to waste any time on it.. Time saved while waiting for me to find a safety item is time you could use to check for some truly significant items. Plus, it just demonstrates my interest and concern about these matters. The last surveyor I use is a semi retired merchant master and also served in the USCG. I'm not afraid of what he might find on my boat, but when he ask about a bell, I reminded him that my boat was under the required length requiring a bell. I think the only reason he ask was because he normal does larger and commercial vessels. Steve s/v Good Intentions |
#13
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Revised COLREGS bell requirements
x-no-archive:yes "Doug Dotson" wrote:
After perhaps 8 or so surveys over the years being both purchase surveys (which are the expensive ones) and insurance surveys ( which are the cheaper ones), I've never had any surveyor mention anything about the CG mandated equipment other than fire extinguishers begin sufficuent and current. None of any of the surveyors checklists contained anything about flares, signalling devices, PFDs, waste management plan, oil discharge placard, waste discharge rules placard, etc. Those items are left to the CG safety inspection or the courtesy inspections conducted by the CG Aux. No insurance has had any complaints other than sending me a form that I could indicate that I complied or wil comply with the "required" items. OTOH we've had 1 purchase survey and several insurance surveys and all of them addressed all or most of those items. I thought that was the norm. I just got out the initial survey to look at it and on the last page it addresses: Minimum Inshore and Coastal Equipment -horn and/or whistle (aboard) -bell (none observed) -PFDs - aboard all US CG approved including throwable type IV -fire extinguishers - all mounted and show charge -automatic fire suppression for engine room (none at that time, but we've got one now) -compass (Ritchie) and deviation table for compass (none observed) -distress flares (aboard and correspond to CG regulations) -anchors (listed the Danforth) -gas vapor detector (none but we have one now) -high bilge alarm (none) -first aid kit (none observed but we have one now) -bilge pumps - work - EPIRB (none but we have one now) -USCG No discharge sign (posted) -Federal no dumping sign-posted (no garbage management plan was seen, but we have one now) Of course all the surveyors were from the same office. The pre-purchase surveyor was the head guy in the office and we picked him on the recommendation of several trusted friends and relatives as THE surveyor in the area (the broker was unhappy but couldn't do anything about it), and he lived up to his reputation. In fact when we switched insurance companies, the new insurance company took his pre-purchase survey without requiring another one. The other surveyors from that office used the initial survey to check off that we'd fixed the things that were mentioned as deficient in the first survey. We did have a CGX courtesy inspection, and Bob did not show them the autoinflate PFDs that we wear when underway because they aren't approved. He just showed them the regular life vests. "Rod McInnis" wrote in message ... "Doug Dotson" wrote in message ... A surveyor has no business in this kind of thing. Why do you say that? I have had several surveys done, and each time I had the option of a "limited" survey focusing on a specific item or a "general" survey that covered overall value, integrity and condition. The insurance company is going to want the overall survey, and they will want to know that the vessel has all the "recommended" safety equipment, which is often over and above the required list. In order to provide such a survey to the insurance company, the surveyor DOES have the business of being in this kind of thing. Rod McInnis grandma Rosalie S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD CSY 44 WO #156 http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html |
#14
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Revised COLREGS bell requirements
That's what irritates me about surveyors. There is no damm requirement for a
compass deviation card, or compass for that matter. Neither an EPIRB, an anchor, a high bilge alarm, etc. However, if they put that on the survey the insurance company is probably going to require you put them in within 30 days. "Rosalie B." wrote in message ... x-no-archive:yes "Doug Dotson" wrote: After perhaps 8 or so surveys over the years being both purchase surveys (which are the expensive ones) and insurance surveys ( which are the cheaper ones), I've never had any surveyor mention anything about the CG mandated equipment other than fire extinguishers begin sufficuent and current. None of any of the surveyors checklists contained anything about flares, signalling devices, PFDs, waste management plan, oil discharge placard, waste discharge rules placard, etc. Those items are left to the CG safety inspection or the courtesy inspections conducted by the CG Aux. No insurance has had any complaints other than sending me a form that I could indicate that I complied or wil comply with the "required" items. OTOH we've had 1 purchase survey and several insurance surveys and all of them addressed all or most of those items. I thought that was the norm. I just got out the initial survey to look at it and on the last page it addresses: Minimum Inshore and Coastal Equipment -horn and/or whistle (aboard) -bell (none observed) -PFDs - aboard all US CG approved including throwable type IV -fire extinguishers - all mounted and show charge -automatic fire suppression for engine room (none at that time, but we've got one now) -compass (Ritchie) and deviation table for compass (none observed) -distress flares (aboard and correspond to CG regulations) -anchors (listed the Danforth) -gas vapor detector (none but we have one now) -high bilge alarm (none) -first aid kit (none observed but we have one now) -bilge pumps - work - EPIRB (none but we have one now) -USCG No discharge sign (posted) -Federal no dumping sign-posted (no garbage management plan was seen, but we have one now) Of course all the surveyors were from the same office. The pre-purchase surveyor was the head guy in the office and we picked him on the recommendation of several trusted friends and relatives as THE surveyor in the area (the broker was unhappy but couldn't do anything about it), and he lived up to his reputation. In fact when we switched insurance companies, the new insurance company took his pre-purchase survey without requiring another one. The other surveyors from that office used the initial survey to check off that we'd fixed the things that were mentioned as deficient in the first survey. We did have a CGX courtesy inspection, and Bob did not show them the autoinflate PFDs that we wear when underway because they aren't approved. He just showed them the regular life vests. "Rod McInnis" wrote in message ... "Doug Dotson" wrote in message ... A surveyor has no business in this kind of thing. Why do you say that? I have had several surveys done, and each time I had the option of a "limited" survey focusing on a specific item or a "general" survey that covered overall value, integrity and condition. The insurance company is going to want the overall survey, and they will want to know that the vessel has all the "recommended" safety equipment, which is often over and above the required list. In order to provide such a survey to the insurance company, the surveyor DOES have the business of being in this kind of thing. Rod McInnis grandma Rosalie S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD CSY 44 WO #156 http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html |
#15
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Revised COLREGS bell requirements
x-no-archive:yes
"Keith" wrote: That's what irritates me about surveyors. There is no damm requirement for a compass deviation card, or compass for that matter. Neither an EPIRB, an anchor, a high bilge alarm, etc. However, if they put that on the survey the insurance company is probably going to require you put them in within 30 days. It wasn't listed as a REQUIREMENT, just as for safety item. And we still don't have a deviation card posted anywhere, although we did go out and do one, and we have it somewhere. I don't think we have a high bilge alarm either. Have never heard it in any case. And the insurance company hasn't required them. We did get a discount for an automatic fire extinguisher in the engine room. It was, as I said, the last page of the survey - the items were prioritized according to how serious the surveyor thought they were, and some of the things we just haven't done - sometimes because Bob disagreed with the surveyor on what the configuration should be. This wasn't an insurance survey. We've not had a problem with being required to do something within 30 days. Maybe that's because the boat was and is in good shape and maintenance is ongoing. It isn't just left to sit. "Rosalie B." wrote in message .. . x-no-archive:yes "Doug Dotson" wrote: After perhaps 8 or so surveys over the years being both purchase surveys (which are the expensive ones) and insurance surveys ( which are the cheaper ones), I've never had any surveyor mention anything about the CG mandated equipment other than fire extinguishers begin sufficuent and current. None of any of the surveyors checklists contained anything about flares, signalling devices, PFDs, waste management plan, oil discharge placard, waste discharge rules placard, etc. Those items are left to the CG safety inspection or the courtesy inspections conducted by the CG Aux. No insurance has had any complaints other than sending me a form that I could indicate that I complied or wil comply with the "required" items. OTOH we've had 1 purchase survey and several insurance surveys and all of them addressed all or most of those items. I thought that was the norm. I just got out the initial survey to look at it and on the last page it addresses: Minimum Inshore and Coastal Equipment -horn and/or whistle (aboard) -bell (none observed) -PFDs - aboard all US CG approved including throwable type IV -fire extinguishers - all mounted and show charge -automatic fire suppression for engine room (none at that time, but we've got one now) -compass (Ritchie) and deviation table for compass (none observed) -distress flares (aboard and correspond to CG regulations) -anchors (listed the Danforth) -gas vapor detector (none but we have one now) -high bilge alarm (none) -first aid kit (none observed but we have one now) -bilge pumps - work - EPIRB (none but we have one now) -USCG No discharge sign (posted) -Federal no dumping sign-posted (no garbage management plan was seen, but we have one now) Of course all the surveyors were from the same office. The pre-purchase surveyor was the head guy in the office and we picked him on the recommendation of several trusted friends and relatives as THE surveyor in the area (the broker was unhappy but couldn't do anything about it), and he lived up to his reputation. In fact when we switched insurance companies, the new insurance company took his pre-purchase survey without requiring another one. The other surveyors from that office used the initial survey to check off that we'd fixed the things that were mentioned as deficient in the first survey. We did have a CGX courtesy inspection, and Bob did not show them the autoinflate PFDs that we wear when underway because they aren't approved. He just showed them the regular life vests. "Rod McInnis" wrote in message ... "Doug Dotson" wrote in message ... A surveyor has no business in this kind of thing. Why do you say that? I have had several surveys done, and each time I had the option of a "limited" survey focusing on a specific item or a "general" survey that covered overall value, integrity and condition. The insurance company is going to want the overall survey, and they will want to know that the vessel has all the "recommended" safety equipment, which is often over and above the required list. In order to provide such a survey to the insurance company, the surveyor DOES have the business of being in this kind of thing. Rod McInnis grandma Rosalie S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD CSY 44 WO #156 http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html grandma Rosalie |
#16
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Revised COLREGS bell requirements
Well, you said that the survey said "minimum inshore and coastal equipment"
and you had these things missing. Assuming your surveyor meant what he said, your insurance company would normally require you to fix, repair, or add these things within 30 days. They didn't? You're lucky. Mine put down something to the effect that my sight tubes on my diesel tanks were vinyl tubing. He stated "while acceptable, they should be replaced with polycarbonate tubes." Even though he said they were acceptable, since he put it in that section of things that needed to be addressed, the insurance company required me to change them. PITA. You just have to be careful to make sure your surveyor puts things like that in a "suggestions" area instead of "requirements" or "safety and operability" section unless they really belong there. "Rosalie B." wrote in message news x-no-archive:yes "Keith" wrote: That's what irritates me about surveyors. There is no damm requirement for a compass deviation card, or compass for that matter. Neither an EPIRB, an anchor, a high bilge alarm, etc. However, if they put that on the survey the insurance company is probably going to require you put them in within 30 days. It wasn't listed as a REQUIREMENT, just as for safety item. And we still don't have a deviation card posted anywhere, although we did go out and do one, and we have it somewhere. I don't think we have a high bilge alarm either. Have never heard it in any case. And the insurance company hasn't required them. We did get a discount for an automatic fire extinguisher in the engine room. It was, as I said, the last page of the survey - the items were prioritized according to how serious the surveyor thought they were, and some of the things we just haven't done - sometimes because Bob disagreed with the surveyor on what the configuration should be. This wasn't an insurance survey. We've not had a problem with being required to do something within 30 days. Maybe that's because the boat was and is in good shape and maintenance is ongoing. It isn't just left to sit. "Rosalie B." wrote in message .. . x-no-archive:yes "Doug Dotson" wrote: After perhaps 8 or so surveys over the years being both purchase surveys (which are the expensive ones) and insurance surveys ( which are the cheaper ones), I've never had any surveyor mention anything about the CG mandated equipment other than fire extinguishers begin sufficuent and current. None of any of the surveyors checklists contained anything about flares, signalling devices, PFDs, waste management plan, oil discharge placard, waste discharge rules placard, etc. Those items are left to the CG safety inspection or the courtesy inspections conducted by the CG Aux. No insurance has had any complaints other than sending me a form that I could indicate that I complied or wil comply with the "required" items. OTOH we've had 1 purchase survey and several insurance surveys and all of them addressed all or most of those items. I thought that was the norm. I just got out the initial survey to look at it and on the last page it addresses: Minimum Inshore and Coastal Equipment -horn and/or whistle (aboard) -bell (none observed) -PFDs - aboard all US CG approved including throwable type IV -fire extinguishers - all mounted and show charge -automatic fire suppression for engine room (none at that time, but we've got one now) -compass (Ritchie) and deviation table for compass (none observed) -distress flares (aboard and correspond to CG regulations) -anchors (listed the Danforth) -gas vapor detector (none but we have one now) -high bilge alarm (none) -first aid kit (none observed but we have one now) -bilge pumps - work - EPIRB (none but we have one now) -USCG No discharge sign (posted) -Federal no dumping sign-posted (no garbage management plan was seen, but we have one now) Of course all the surveyors were from the same office. The pre-purchase surveyor was the head guy in the office and we picked him on the recommendation of several trusted friends and relatives as THE surveyor in the area (the broker was unhappy but couldn't do anything about it), and he lived up to his reputation. In fact when we switched insurance companies, the new insurance company took his pre-purchase survey without requiring another one. The other surveyors from that office used the initial survey to check off that we'd fixed the things that were mentioned as deficient in the first survey. We did have a CGX courtesy inspection, and Bob did not show them the autoinflate PFDs that we wear when underway because they aren't approved. He just showed them the regular life vests. "Rod McInnis" wrote in message ... "Doug Dotson" wrote in message ... A surveyor has no business in this kind of thing. Why do you say that? I have had several surveys done, and each time I had the option of a "limited" survey focusing on a specific item or a "general" survey that covered overall value, integrity and condition. The insurance company is going to want the overall survey, and they will want to know that the vessel has all the "recommended" safety equipment, which is often over and above the required list. In order to provide such a survey to the insurance company, the surveyor DOES have the business of being in this kind of thing. Rod McInnis grandma Rosalie S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD CSY 44 WO #156 http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html grandma Rosalie |
#17
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Revised COLREGS bell requirements
I've had a couple NAMS members share their checklists, and what Rosalie
describes is what these guys look for. They also check the dates on the flares. "Rosalie B." wrote in message ... x-no-archive:yes "Doug Dotson" wrote: After perhaps 8 or so surveys over the years being both purchase surveys (which are the expensive ones) and insurance surveys ( which are the cheaper ones), I've never had any surveyor mention anything about the CG mandated equipment other than fire extinguishers begin sufficuent and current. None of any of the surveyors checklists contained anything about flares, signalling devices, PFDs, waste management plan, oil discharge placard, waste discharge rules placard, etc. Those items are left to the CG safety inspection or the courtesy inspections conducted by the CG Aux. No insurance has had any complaints other than sending me a form that I could indicate that I complied or wil comply with the "required" items. OTOH we've had 1 purchase survey and several insurance surveys and all of them addressed all or most of those items. I thought that was the norm. I just got out the initial survey to look at it and on the last page it addresses: Minimum Inshore and Coastal Equipment -horn and/or whistle (aboard) -bell (none observed) -PFDs - aboard all US CG approved including throwable type IV -fire extinguishers - all mounted and show charge -automatic fire suppression for engine room (none at that time, but we've got one now) -compass (Ritchie) and deviation table for compass (none observed) -distress flares (aboard and correspond to CG regulations) -anchors (listed the Danforth) -gas vapor detector (none but we have one now) -high bilge alarm (none) -first aid kit (none observed but we have one now) -bilge pumps - work - EPIRB (none but we have one now) -USCG No discharge sign (posted) -Federal no dumping sign-posted (no garbage management plan was seen, but we have one now) Of course all the surveyors were from the same office. The pre-purchase surveyor was the head guy in the office and we picked him on the recommendation of several trusted friends and relatives as THE surveyor in the area (the broker was unhappy but couldn't do anything about it), and he lived up to his reputation. In fact when we switched insurance companies, the new insurance company took his pre-purchase survey without requiring another one. The other surveyors from that office used the initial survey to check off that we'd fixed the things that were mentioned as deficient in the first survey. We did have a CGX courtesy inspection, and Bob did not show them the autoinflate PFDs that we wear when underway because they aren't approved. He just showed them the regular life vests. |