"Doug Kanter" wrote in message news:0Nwyb.2817
I disagree, but based only on being very familiar with the way some REAL
hunters hunt. My former neighbor's dad has about 1000 acres an hour south of
Rochester.

Avoca, Bath area?


This guy's not that unusual. I've met his neighbors down at the farmland.
They're the same way. They go out for 40 hours and come back with one deer,
just enough for their families.

That is true enough. When I lived there, I had no problem with people
who lived in the area taking a deer to feed there families. But, I
really didn't care for all of the people that came to the area from
Rochester, Buffalo, Syracuse who came and just blasted everything in
sight. Ever look at Rochester's landfills after deer season? They are
full of deer carcasses, rotting, after they took the deer home to
parade it up and down the streets.

"basskisser" wrote in message
m...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
news:0Nwyb.2817
I disagree, but based only on being very familiar with the way some REAL
hunters hunt. My former neighbor's dad has about 1000 acres an hour
south of
Rochester.

Avoca, Bath area?

East Bloomfield, around routes 5 & 20.


This guy's not that unusual. I've met his neighbors down at the
farmland.
They're the same way. They go out for 40 hours and come back with one
deer,
just enough for their families.

That is true enough. When I lived there, I had no problem with people
who lived in the area taking a deer to feed there families. But, I
really didn't care for all of the people that came to the area from
Rochester, Buffalo, Syracuse who came and just blasted everything in
sight. Ever look at Rochester's landfills after deer season? They are
full of deer carcasses, rotting, after they took the deer home to
parade it up and down the streets.

The Brooklyn hunters who infect the Catskills are quite a crew, too. All
amateurs. When I was in college, my roommate and I were sitting in the
Roscoe Diner when a NYS trooper walked in and sat down a few stools away. We
were hoping that the neon "We Are Stoned" signs on our foreheads weren't
noticeable. There were a bunch of hunters in the parking lot admiring each
others' new guns, new orange vests, etc. Suddenly....BLAM! One of the idiots
shot out the windshield of the trooper's car. Poor cop shook his head, says
to the waitress "Oh no....they're back", and goes outside & starts
collecting guns and taking names.

Around here, at least 2-3 hunters are killed each year, either with their
own guns, falling out of tree stands, or due to the stupidity of their
hunting partners. My former landlord was shot in the leg with an arror by
another hunter. He was in a tree stand on totally flat land, wearing blaze
orange. I guess he looked like one of them thar tree deer. :-)

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...


I disagree, but based only on being very familiar with the way some REAL
hunters hunt. My former neighbor's dad has about 1000 acres an hour
south of
Rochester. I went "hunting" with him on that land a couple of years ago.
He
brought no weapons of any kind. We spent the weekend stalking deer. He
took
written notes which enabled him to identify the one he wanted. He did
this
for 3 weeks afterward. Then, he brought his bow with him and got the
deer
he'd chosen. A week later, he got a permit for another. I'm not sure how
that works, but I think it's got something to do with the fact that
we're
overrun with deer. He took another month to choose and take the right
one,
this time with a long gun.

This guy's not that unusual. I've met his neighbors down at the
farmland.
They're the same way. They go out for 40 hours and come back with one
deer,
just enough for their families.

There are slobs, and there are artists. It's not much different from
people
who fish, and pigs who snag salmon with enormous treble hooks, all the
while
keeping their eyes peeled for the DEC game warden.


Well, I see no need to get into a discussion of fishing versus hunting,
but I will point out a few differences. I just don't see hunting as
"sporting."

1. Fishing from a boat in salt water (and some bodies of fresh water) is
inherently dangerous for several reasons, including incurring the wrath
of mother nature in terms of the weather, falling overboard and
drowning, et cetera, or incurring the wrath of the fish in terms of
being bit. I have incurred these wraths, so to speak.

Hunters have to deal with weather that can only be called "utterly stupid",
risking frostbite and hypothermia. Deer season here corresponds with weather
that's cold and wet, which is inherently more dangerous than three feet of
snow in January.


2. Catch and release fishing is becoming more popular, and as fishermen
get more used to this, more of the fish survive. Very few critters who
are blasted by guns can be released.

OK, but there are shortages of certain fish, which is WHY we release them.
In many areas, the deer populations are way beyond what the place is able to
support. Hunting them doesn't threaten the entire species in a given area.

Harry, here's a response that's not allowed: "Well, the deer you shoot are
certainly threatened". :-) Thought I'd save your fingers a little work.


3. While sport fishermen attempt to attract their prey with bait, if
they do, they still have to hook and reel in the fish. If you get a deer
within your sights, and you're within range, the deer is dead.

That's a big "IF", Harry. I know hunters who have been coming back
emptyhanded for years. Most of them couldn't sneak up on a garbage can.


Mind you, I have no problem with someone who goes out to shoot an animal
to put food on the table. But I feel better about it when the animal has
at least a sporting chance, eh?

Sporting chance? You have to wear bright orange clothing, or risk your life.
The deer can smell you coming a mile away, and may even be spooked by scent
of your 1/2 hour old footprints. And, they're blazingly fast on their feet.
And, good hunters won't even take a shot if they think it may result in a
wounded deer that'll get away.

I'm not a hunter, and I have plenty of skepticism about some of the clowns I
know who tote rifles around the woods. But, there are some decent hunters.

If you are not eating tofu and wearing plastic shoes you don't have standing in
this fight. Is it wrong to kill the billions of chickens and cows we eat too?
Is the person who hires a hit man morally superior to the hit man?
I am not a hunter but I do understand the need to control the population of
some species, particularly eastern white tail deer, the most deadfly animal in
North America. (kill about 200 people a year in the US) and cause millions of
dollars in crop damage.

Greg wrote:

.... eastern white tail deer, the most deadfly animal in
North America. (kill about 200 people a year in the US) and cause millions of
dollars in crop damage.

heh heh trees kill more people than that. We need to take extreme measures against
this deadly species!

DSK

In *both* fishing and hunting the objective is to convince your prey that
it's gonna get a free meal or get laid. Then when it falls for the routine,
you get a *chance* to put it in the car or the boat.

I'm not sure how "sporting" any of it all is - but it's far from a certain
meal either. It's not easy to outsmart a deer, most birds, or some types of
fish.

None of this has anything to do with the canned hunting of exotic animals
for trophies - which I think is sickening.

-W



"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...


I disagree, but based only on being very familiar with the way some
REAL
hunters hunt. My former neighbor's dad has about 1000 acres an hour
south of
Rochester. I went "hunting" with him on that land a couple of years
ago.
He
brought no weapons of any kind. We spent the weekend stalking deer. He
took
written notes which enabled him to identify the one he wanted. He did
this
for 3 weeks afterward. Then, he brought his bow with him and got the
deer
he'd chosen. A week later, he got a permit for another. I'm not sure
how
that works, but I think it's got something to do with the fact that
we're
overrun with deer. He took another month to choose and take the right
one,
this time with a long gun.

This guy's not that unusual. I've met his neighbors down at the
farmland.
They're the same way. They go out for 40 hours and come back with one
deer,
just enough for their families.

There are slobs, and there are artists. It's not much different from
people
who fish, and pigs who snag salmon with enormous treble hooks, all the
while
keeping their eyes peeled for the DEC game warden.


Well, I see no need to get into a discussion of fishing versus hunting,
but I will point out a few differences. I just don't see hunting as
"sporting."

1. Fishing from a boat in salt water (and some bodies of fresh water) is
inherently dangerous for several reasons, including incurring the wrath
of mother nature in terms of the weather, falling overboard and
drowning, et cetera, or incurring the wrath of the fish in terms of
being bit. I have incurred these wraths, so to speak.

Hunters have to deal with weather that can only be called "utterly
stupid",
risking frostbite and hypothermia. Deer season here corresponds with
weather
that's cold and wet, which is inherently more dangerous than three feet of
snow in January.


2. Catch and release fishing is becoming more popular, and as fishermen
get more used to this, more of the fish survive. Very few critters who
are blasted by guns can be released.

OK, but there are shortages of certain fish, which is WHY we release them.
In many areas, the deer populations are way beyond what the place is able
to
support. Hunting them doesn't threaten the entire species in a given area.

Harry, here's a response that's not allowed: "Well, the deer you shoot are
certainly threatened". :-) Thought I'd save your fingers a little work.


3. While sport fishermen attempt to attract their prey with bait, if
they do, they still have to hook and reel in the fish. If you get a deer
within your sights, and you're within range, the deer is dead.

That's a big "IF", Harry. I know hunters who have been coming back
emptyhanded for years. Most of them couldn't sneak up on a garbage can.


Mind you, I have no problem with someone who goes out to shoot an animal
to put food on the table. But I feel better about it when the animal has
at least a sporting chance, eh?

Sporting chance? You have to wear bright orange clothing, or risk your
life.
The deer can smell you coming a mile away, and may even be spooked by
scent
of your 1/2 hour old footprints. And, they're blazingly fast on their
feet.
And, good hunters won't even take a shot if they think it may result in a
wounded deer that'll get away.

I'm not a hunter, and I have plenty of skepticism about some of the clowns
I
know who tote rifles around the woods. But, there are some decent hunters.

heh heh trees kill more people than that. We need to take extreme measures
against
this deadly species!

We mow'm down by the billions.

I was looking over this thread again and I saw the fishing analogy. I know
people may catch the target fish and release but all the bait dies.
If you are really a PETA person the bait is the real victim of extreme cruelty.

heh heh trees kill more people than that. We need to take extreme measures
against
this deadly species!


Greg wrote:
We mow'm down by the billions.

I know, but it's not enough. Trees are winning, I think they are secretly
cooperating with terrorist networks. People crash their cars into trees, trees fall
on houses during storms, people hurt htmesleves chainsawing trees, the list goes on
and on.

When will the Homeland Security Dept take measures to protect us from this deadly
threat?




I was looking over this thread again and I saw the fishing analogy. I know
people may catch the target fish and release but all the bait dies.
If you are really a PETA person the bait is the real victim of extreme cruelty.

Yes, that is true. Reminds me of an old joke that ends, "Doctor, phooey, I'm a
rabbi" but more seriously I want to take up the issue of cruelty to plants. Think
how many are held in captivity across America.....

DSK

"Greg" wrote in message
...
heh heh trees kill more people than that. We need to take extreme
measures
against
this deadly species!

We mow'm down by the billions.

I was looking over this thread again and I saw the fishing analogy. I know
people may catch the target fish and release but all the bait dies.
If you are really a PETA person the bait is the real victim of extreme
cruelty.

Actually, that's my 14 yr old son's logic. But, he has a spectrum along
which various kinds of bait exist, in terms of what he's willing to use.
Live minnows - No. Worms - Yes. Likes to eat fish, but refuses to keep
anything he catches.

Yes. Likes to eat fish, but refuses to keep
anything he catches.

Another person who doesn't want to kill but doesn't hesitate to hire a hit man.