"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Tex Houston" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Cars are another story. My first two cars were American, and due to
constant
problems, they almost put ME out of work. Once you realize you're
being
bent
over like a newcomer in a prison, it's silly to submit to more or the
same
treatment.

My Chrysler was made in Mexico, my neighbor's Chrysler was made in
Canada.
The two Hondas across the street were made in Ohio. What is an American
car?

Tex


At this point (since Japanese cars are rarely made there any more), it
seems
to be a question of design and tolerances, and that apparently makes all
the
difference in the world. You don't say which Chrysler you have, but
chances
are good that it'll be burning oil by its second year. All Chrysler vans
do
that, without exception, and relatively new Neons also smell pretty nasty
when you're driving behind one. A Toyota won't do that until 200k miles
unless you abuse the bejezus out of it. I had a 1982 Tercel that reached
180k miles. On the day someone smashed into it at 70mph and killed it, I
cleaned my stuff out of the trunk before it was towed and found I had the
same unopened bottle of oil I'd placed there on the day I bought it. The
car
ran clean as a whistle at that age, with compression better than spec
across
all 4 cylinders.

An engineer could explain why the American designers can't seem to do
this.

Yeah, and the Japanese stuff never breaks down right? A good friend of mine
will not buy any other kind of vehicle other than a Toyota, always tells me
how great they are, buy conveniently forgets to mention that his 2002 Tundra
V8 had to have that camshaft replaced at less than 10,000 miles and his 2003
Rav 4 spends more time sitting at the dealers repair shop than in his
driveway.
My wife's 92 Ford Crown Victoria had 159,000 miles on it when we traded it
in on a 2000 Mercury Grand Marquis and it didn't burn a drop of oil between
changes. My sister in law has a 92 Chevy Astro van with a V6 in it that has
over 377,000 miles on it and not had a major break down.
Back in the 1970s and 1980s there was a lot of junk manufactured here but if
you haven't tried an US brand lately you might be surprised.

Jack Cassidy

Doug Kanter wrote:

"Dave Thompson" wrote in message
news:nKOxb.8111$ZE1.2358@fed1read04...

It's truly very simple. If the customer wants the 413 gram box, they
drive
past Wally World and show up at Loblaw's. WAIT! Hasn't that mega-chain
run
Mom and Pop grocers out of business?

Uh....yeah. thirty or forty years ago.

Notice a pattern here?

"RJ" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:

"Dave Thompson" wrote in message
news:nKOxb.8111$ZE1.2358@fed1read04...

It's truly very simple. If the customer wants the 413 gram box, they
drive
past Wally World and show up at Loblaw's. WAIT! Hasn't that
mega-chain
run
Mom and Pop grocers out of business?

Uh....yeah. thirty or forty years ago.

Notice a pattern here?

Maybe a repeat performance, but a pattern would require the same reasons and
those reasons are NOT the same.

1) The mom & pop store of the 1940s wasn't much bigger than the convenience
store of today. Perhaps 3000-4000 square feet. You still find IGA and Red &
White stores that size in small towns, but there's no way they can carry the
variety of large supermarket chains. The newer, larger stores actually
offered something worthwhile to differentiate themselves. A Wal Mart store
does not, unless there was no modern supermarket in the area before they
arrived.

2) For a number of reasons, including but not limited to the acceptance of
immigrant cultures, and increased overseas travel, the American consumer
expects to see a huge assortment of foods which used to be considered ethnic
specialties. Large supermarkets did what mom & pop stores could not, unless
the smaller stores were in neighborhoods where they catered to a certain
group, like Hispanic or Middle Eastern customers. Again, Wal Mart does not
serve the function of the larger supermarkets in this regard. They may snag
the hobby shopper (like my sister in law) who doesn't mind visiting 3 stores
to complete her grocery shopping, but grocery biz data shows that more than
70% of shoppers don't have the time or patience for such nonsense.

If you really think about it, Wal Mart serves NO special function as a
grocery supplier, unless you're still under their advertising spell and you
think your groceries cost less there. They have no more leverage, and often
less than the 20 largest grocery chains & wholesalers.

"Jack Cassidy" wrote in message
om...


My Chrysler was made in Mexico, my neighbor's Chrysler was made in
Canada.
The two Hondas across the street were made in Ohio. What is an
American
car?

Tex


At this point (since Japanese cars are rarely made there any more), it
seems
to be a question of design and tolerances, and that apparently makes all
the
difference in the world. You don't say which Chrysler you have, but
chances
are good that it'll be burning oil by its second year. All Chrysler vans
do
that, without exception, and relatively new Neons also smell pretty
nasty
when you're driving behind one. A Toyota won't do that until 200k miles
unless you abuse the bejezus out of it. I had a 1982 Tercel that reached
180k miles. On the day someone smashed into it at 70mph and killed it, I
cleaned my stuff out of the trunk before it was towed and found I had
the
same unopened bottle of oil I'd placed there on the day I bought it. The
car
ran clean as a whistle at that age, with compression better than spec
across
all 4 cylinders.

An engineer could explain why the American designers can't seem to do
this.

Yeah, and the Japanese stuff never breaks down right? A good friend of
mine
will not buy any other kind of vehicle other than a Toyota, always tells
me
how great they are, buy conveniently forgets to mention that his 2002
Tundra
V8 had to have that camshaft replaced at less than 10,000 miles and his
2003
Rav 4 spends more time sitting at the dealers repair shop than in his
driveway.
My wife's 92 Ford Crown Victoria had 159,000 miles on it when we traded it
in on a 2000 Mercury Grand Marquis and it didn't burn a drop of oil
between
changes. My sister in law has a 92 Chevy Astro van with a V6 in it that
has
over 377,000 miles on it and not had a major break down.
Back in the 1970s and 1980s there was a lot of junk manufactured here but
if
you haven't tried an US brand lately you might be surprised.

Jack Cassidy

I had a '92 Taurus as a company car that wasn't TOO bad, except for the
various wires that melted every so often, the hood blanket that fell into
the belts and self-destructed, the two power steering pumps that died in the
first 20k miles, and the CV boots which deteriorated by 30k.

Of course all cars break down. But, thus far, my experience with Toyotas has
been that there are no mickey-mouse problems which make you feel like you've
been taken.

Even if Chevys & Chryslers could guarantee no breakdowns, I'd still have a
problem with their wretched exhausts. When a two year old car smells like a
30 year old Blazer, it means something about its contribution to lousy air
quality. All the major makers use CNC machining and can adjust tolerances as
tight as they like. But, they choose not to for economic reasons.

Doug Kanter wrote:

"RJ" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:

"Dave Thompson" wrote in message
news:nKOxb.8111$ZE1.2358@fed1read04...

It's truly very simple. If the customer wants the 413 gram box, they
drive
past Wally World and show up at Loblaw's. WAIT! Hasn't that
mega-chain
run
Mom and Pop grocers out of business?

Uh....yeah. thirty or forty years ago.

Notice a pattern here?

Maybe a repeat performance, but a pattern would require the same reasons and
those reasons are NOT the same.

Your reasons below are inaccurate because you interpreted my comments as
being only about supermarket competition. My point was that WalMart
grew as big as it is because it satisfied shoppers. When a better or
more interesting concept comes along, it will grow at the expense of
WalMart.

How could you imagine in the 1970s that WalMart could ever hope to grow
to compete with Sears, KMart and the like? Yet they did, and somebody
will supplant them in turn.

1) The mom & pop store of the 1940s wasn't much bigger than the convenience
store of today. Perhaps 3000-4000 square feet. You still find IGA and Red &
White stores that size in small towns, but there's no way they can carry the
variety of large supermarket chains. The newer, larger stores actually
offered something worthwhile to differentiate themselves. A Wal Mart store
does not, unless there was no modern supermarket in the area before they
arrived.

Wal-Mart is blamed for the demise of the 'little stores on Main Street'.

2) For a number of reasons, including but not limited to the acceptance of
immigrant cultures, and increased overseas travel, the American consumer
expects to see a huge assortment of foods which used to be considered ethnic
specialties.

The concept was invented first, and people liked it. Thus they got more
of it.

If you really think about it, Wal Mart serves NO special function as a
grocery supplier, unless you're still under their advertising spell and you
think your groceries cost less there. They have no more leverage, and often
less than the 20 largest grocery chains & wholesalers.

Then they're not a major competitor. What are you worried about?

By the way, I rarely shop at WalMart for anything any more. It used to
be a very well run enterprise but has fallen far since Sam Walton died.

"RJ" wrote in message
. ..

drive
past Wally World and show up at Loblaw's. WAIT! Hasn't that
mega-chain
run
Mom and Pop grocers out of business?

Uh....yeah. thirty or forty years ago.

Notice a pattern here?

Maybe a repeat performance, but a pattern would require the same reasons
and
those reasons are NOT the same.

Your reasons below are inaccurate because you interpreted my comments as
being only about supermarket competition.

I focused on your mention of Loblaw's.

My point was that WalMart
grew as big as it is because it satisfied shoppers. When a better or
more interesting concept comes along, it will grow at the expense of
WalMart.

That's what's so odd: There IS no concept at Wal Mart. :-) If you believe
there is, can you describe or name it?


1) The mom & pop store of the 1940s wasn't much bigger than the
convenience
store of today. Perhaps 3000-4000 square feet. You still find IGA and
Red &
White stores that size in small towns, but there's no way they can carry
the
variety of large supermarket chains. The newer, larger stores actually
offered something worthwhile to differentiate themselves. A Wal Mart
store
does not, unless there was no modern supermarket in the area before they
arrived.

Wal-Mart is blamed for the demise of the 'little stores on Main Street'.

Is many small towns, they WERE the demise of smaller stores. In large
markets, supermarkets did them in, unless they offered something special.
Many still do.


2) For a number of reasons, including but not limited to the acceptance
of
immigrant cultures, and increased overseas travel, the American consumer
expects to see a huge assortment of foods which used to be considered
ethnic
specialties.

The concept was invented first, and people liked it. Thus they got more
of it.

Of course! But Wal Mart makes virtually no contribution, unless you think
the presence of salsa and chips on their shelves has great meaning to your
average Hispanic customer.


If you really think about it, Wal Mart serves NO special function as a
grocery supplier, unless you're still under their advertising spell and
you
think your groceries cost less there. They have no more leverage, and
often
less than the 20 largest grocery chains & wholesalers.

Then they're not a major competitor. What are you worried about?

I don't worry! :-) I'm simply saying that it's amazing how they suck people
in for absolutely no benefit whatsoever, at least in the grocery sector.

You *really* are a corporate whore, Karen.



oooh Harry, what a nasty response, but true.

Hi Tex. Well, the Honda is Japanese and the Chrysler is German, so,
neither is American.

Jim Carter
"The Boat"
Bayfield

"Tex Houston" wrote in message
...
My Chrysler was made in Mexico, my neighbor's Chrysler was made in Canada.
The two Hondas across the street were made in Ohio. What is an American
car?

Tex

Doug Kanter wrote:

"RJ" wrote in message
. ..

drive
past Wally World and show up at Loblaw's. WAIT! Hasn't that
mega-chain
run
Mom and Pop grocers out of business?

Uh....yeah. thirty or forty years ago.

Notice a pattern here?

Maybe a repeat performance, but a pattern would require the same reasons
and
those reasons are NOT the same.

Your reasons below are inaccurate because you interpreted my comments as
being only about supermarket competition.

I focused on your mention of Loblaw's.

I didn't mention Loblaw's. That must have been somebody else.

My point was that WalMart
grew as big as it is because it satisfied shoppers. When a better or
more interesting concept comes along, it will grow at the expense of
WalMart.

That's what's so odd: There IS no concept at Wal Mart. :-) If you believe
there is, can you describe or name it?

A store with most of the mundane things you need day to day to run your
household. One stop to buy a wide variety of things. Open late, as
much as 24/7. How is that not a concept?

1) The mom & pop store of the 1940s wasn't much bigger than the
convenience
store of today. Perhaps 3000-4000 square feet. You still find IGA and
Red &
White stores that size in small towns, but there's no way they can carry
the
variety of large supermarket chains. The newer, larger stores actually
offered something worthwhile to differentiate themselves. A Wal Mart
store
does not, unless there wano modern supermarket in the area before they
arrived.

Wal-Mart is blamed for the demise of the 'little stores on Main Street'.

Is many small towns, they WERE the demise of smaller stores. In large
markets, supermarkets did them in, unless they offered something special.
Many still do.

I grew up in a time and place when the only shopping was the little
stores on Main Street. The predominant characteristics of shopping that
way were (1) limited choices, (2) high prices, (3) no returns (You have
a problem, see the manufacturer.) The discounters that came before
WalMart killed off main street.


2) For a number of reasons, including but not limited to the acceptance
of
immigrant cultures, and increased overseas travel, the American consumer
expects to see a huge assortment of foods which used to be considered
ethnic
specialties.

The concept was invented first, and people liked it. Thus they got more
of it.

Of course! But Wal Mart makes virtually no contribution, unless you think
the presence of salsa and chips on their shelves has great meaning to your
average Hispanic customer.

When a new supermarket chain builds new stores in a city where they
haven't been before, is that a contribution? Do you have to make a
contribution to compete?

If you really think about it, Wal Mart serves NO special function as a
grocery supplier, unless you're still under their advertising spell and
you
think your groceries cost less there. They have no more leverage, and
often
less than the 20 largest grocery chains & wholesalers.

Then they're not a major competitor. What are you worried about?

I don't worry! :-) I'm simply saying that it's amazing how they suck people
in for absolutely no benefit whatsoever, at least in the grocery sector.

You sound worried.

And to get within that $20 at the local grocer, I have to use my "reward
card" and let them link my purchase to my name, address and phone number.

The grocers all claim that they are keeping this information confidential....
but for how long? Why would they spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a year
collecting it if it doesn't have some commercial value? The weak explanation
that often gets trotted out is that it allows stores to know what sort of
merchandise is turning fastest. Bullshirt. You can easily measure how fast
merchandise is turning without knowing the identities of the individuals who
bought it.

As it is right now, I surely believe that the FBI could get access to the
information without a subpeona under the Patriot Act.
That's the first breach in the dam.

Ten years from now, some poor slob will be dieing from coronary artery disease
and need an open heart operation. The US Insurance company (owned by WAlMART
and the only insurance company left) will
turn down the claim. Why? "Sorry, Mr. Missinbeats. Your condition is self
inflicted, and therefore not covered under your policy. We have examined your
grocery receipts for the last 15 years, and
you purchased 40% more butter and ice cream than the national average. Have a
nice (last) day."