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#1
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There's nothing reasonable about that. The buyer is selecting the surveyor, and has the benefit of the survey, deal or no. The seller has no control over the surveyor or the outcome. Let's not forget that most insurance companies will require a recent survey on any larger boat over 5 years old. Now you want the SELLER to provide you with a survey that you then use to obtain insurance?! If you are not sufficiently skilled to determine the condition of the boat on your own, you're welcome to hire as many surveyors and other experts as you wish, for whatever you wish, from a cold beer in the local bar to $25,000. However, as the seller, I am neither going to recommend a particular person nor will I reimburse you for the costs of your decision(s) in that regard. If the boat is on a trailer I'll be more than happy to launch it and take you for a ride once I've determined that you're actually able and willing to fund the purchase, and are seriously interested. If I'm already going out, and have room, I'll generally let you come along with no obligation or verification - why not? It doesn't cost me anything in that case. Where it stops is when you want me to pay you to inspect the boat. I've bought a few boats, 2 airplanes, a bunch of cars, and a dozen houses and rentals. I've never had anyone bellyache about picking up the cost of the inspect IF I bought. Let's all assume a reasonable man standard here. A home inspect is around 25 cents/foot, a car inspect at autoclub is under $100. My last boat checkout on a 25 Searay was $250. Big deal in the scheme of $20K for the seller. |
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#2
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In article , 4-Boat wrote: and have room, I'll generally let you come along with no obligation or verification - why not? It doesn't cost me anything in that case. Where it stops is when you want me to pay you to inspect the boat. I've bought a few boats, 2 airplanes, a bunch of cars, and a dozen houses and rentals. I've never had anyone bellyache about picking up the cost of the inspect IF I bought. Let's all assume a reasonable man standard here. A home inspect is around 25 cents/foot, a car inspect at autoclub is under $100. My last boat checkout on a 25 Searay was $250. Big deal in the scheme of $20K for the seller. There is no broker in the world who will accept this, nor any larger boat seller, and no sane small one either. You'll always pay, whether he simply adds the $250 to the asking price (and won't negotiate lower) or otherwise. You will ALWAYS keep your deals cleaner if you simply pay for those expenses out of pocket. You're going to pay anyway, and you can expect that anyone who agrees to such a thing will mark up the actual cost in their "best and final" offer price. Thus, it always costs you more to have the seller pick it up. You want me to pick it up if you buy it? Cool; I'll do that. My "lowest acceptable price" on the boat just went up $500 (unknown to you), which means I made 100% profit on your demand, and you have no way to even know that this happened to you. You think you're getting the seller to "eat" the cost, when in fact not only is he not eating the cost, he's making a tidy profit on your demand besides. First rule of negotiating purchases is not to muddy the water by building in fees and costs that can affect the seller's price. If you spring this "you pick it up if I buy it" thing AFTER we negotiate a price, your deal will immediately collapse with any honest and reputable seller, because he will (correctly) perceive this as your attempt to renegotiate the price after you've come to an agreement. -- -- Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net My home on the net http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://boaterforum.com Talk about Boating online - any topic, any time! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! |
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#3
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I've bought a few boats, 2 airplanes, a bunch of cars, and a dozen houses
and rentals. I've never had anyone bellyache about picking up the cost of the inspect IF I bought. Let's all assume a reasonable man standard here. A home inspect is around 25 cents/foot, a car inspect at autoclub is under $100. My last boat checkout on a 25 Searay was $250. Big deal in the scheme of $20K for the seller. There is no broker in the world who will accept this, nor any larger boat seller, and no sane small one either. You'll always pay, whether he simply adds the $250 to the asking price (and won't negotiate lower) or otherwise. You will ALWAYS keep your deals cleaner if you simply pay for those expenses out of pocket. You're going to pay anyway, and you can expect that anyone who agrees to such a thing will mark up the actual cost in their "best and final" offer price. Thus, it always costs you more to have the seller pick it up. You want me to pick it up if you buy it? Cool; I'll do that. My "lowest acceptable price" on the boat just went up $500 (unknown to you), which means I made 100% profit on your demand, and you have no way to even know that this happened to you. You think you're getting the seller to "eat" the cost, when in fact not only is he not eating the cost, he's making a tidy profit on your demand besides. First rule of negotiating purchases is not to muddy the water by building in fees and costs that can affect the seller's price. If you spring this "you pick it up if I buy it" thing AFTER we negotiate a price, your deal will immediately collapse with any honest and reputable seller, because he will (correctly) perceive this as your attempt to renegotiate the price after you've come to an agreement. You're free to negotiate anyway your want. Whether you're a procurement negotiator or a labor negotiator, the BUYER always negotiates ISSUE by ISSUE and the SELLER always attempts to negotiate a package. As the BUYER, I'm going after one thing after another, the FIRST being that I want you to commit to a less than 1% expenditure on an inspection IF, AND ONLY IF, I buy the boat. If you won't you're unreasonable. If you do, then you have some OWNERSHIP in the outcome, especially if I let you have some voice in choosing a mutually agreed upon inspector. Either way, I win or I walk away because you're too difficult to work with, and I'd rather know that now than later. And by the way, I've been in Fortune 200s my entire life, managing spends from $250M to $4B annual. I've been around the block a few times in major negotiations as the BUYER. As I said, you can do what you want. That's fine, it's your style. But I would still counsel the folks in the original note to just walk away if they can't get some sort of recognition by the seller of the costs of the survey. I simply don't want to deal with unreasonable sellers...why should I? -- -- Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net My home on the net http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://boaterforum.com Talk about Boating online - any topic, any time! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! |
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#4
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In article , 4-Boat wrote: I've bought a few boats, 2 airplanes, a bunch of cars, and a dozen houses and rentals. I've never had anyone bellyache about picking up the cost of the inspect IF I bought. Let's all assume a reasonable man standard here. A home inspect is around 25 cents/foot, a car inspect at autoclub is under $100. My last boat checkout on a 25 Searay was $250. Big deal in the scheme of $20K for the seller. There is no broker in the world who will accept this, nor any larger boat seller, and no sane small one either. You'll always pay, whether he simply adds the $250 to the asking price (and won't negotiate lower) or otherwise. You will ALWAYS keep your deals cleaner if you simply pay for those expenses out of pocket. You're going to pay anyway, and you can expect that anyone who agrees to such a thing will mark up the actual cost in their "best and final" offer price. Thus, it always costs you more to have the seller pick it up. You want me to pick it up if you buy it? Cool; I'll do that. My "lowest acceptable price" on the boat just went up $500 (unknown to you), which means I made 100% profit on your demand, and you have no way to even know that this happened to you. You think you're getting the seller to "eat" the cost, when in fact not only is he not eating the cost, he's making a tidy profit on your demand besides. First rule of negotiating purchases is not to muddy the water by building in fees and costs that can affect the seller's price. If you spring this "you pick it up if I buy it" thing AFTER we negotiate a price, your deal will immediately collapse with any honest and reputable seller, because he will (correctly) perceive this as your attempt to renegotiate the price after you've come to an agreement. You're free to negotiate anyway your want. Whether you're a procurement negotiator or a labor negotiator, the BUYER always negotiates ISSUE by ISSUE and the SELLER always attempts to negotiate a package. As the BUYER, I'm going after one thing after another, the FIRST being that I want you to commit to a less than 1% expenditure on an inspection IF, AND ONLY IF, I buy the boat. If you won't you're unreasonable. If you do, then you have some OWNERSHIP in the outcome, especially if I let you have some voice in choosing a mutually agreed upon inspector. Either way, I win or I walk away because you're too difficult to work with, and I'd rather know that now than later. And by the way, I've been in Fortune 200s my entire life, managing spends from $250M to $4B annual. I've been around the block a few times in major negotiations as the BUYER. As I said, you can do what you want. That's fine, it's your style. But I would still counsel the folks in the original note to just walk away if they can't get some sort of recognition by the seller of the costs of the survey. I simply don't want to deal with unreasonable sellers...why should I? You're not dealing with an "unreasonable seller". You want an absolute out if you don't like the results of the survey (irrespective of why) but you want the seller to pay for it. As I said, you're welcome to make such a demand. If you do it before you negotiate a price, then you will simply find that the seller adds the cost to the lowest price he will accept, plus some margin of profit. If you do it AFTER you have negotiated a price, piecemeal, then you are dealing in bad faith. At the point EITHER SIDE attempts to deal in bad faith the transaction is simply not going to happen the party who is not acting in bad faith has even half a brain. BTW, I employed people like you. The first time you attempted to play this kind of game with a supplier to my firm - negotiating a price and then taking a second bite at the apple in bad faith - you would have been fired for cause. Dishonesty was one of the quickest ways to get canned around my shop. - -- Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net My home on the net http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://boaterforum.com Talk about Boating online - any topic, any time! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! |
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#5
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Here is point nobody has seemed to explicity address.....but maybe I missed
something.... Seller says boat is in conditon A (lots of variables here) for price B.... Buyer says....hey if it actually IS in condition A, you've got a deal for price B! So, buyer brings in "expert" to look things over.... Expert says no friggin way this boat is in condition A, its a floating terd (for whatever particular reason)..... Who pays for expert in the first place and then who pays for expert after buyer smartly says no deal? Now, if seller pays for expert in the first place, it could certainly be conflict of interest....even if buyer is the person who choose the expert.... If buyer pays and chooses the expert in the first place...why should the buyer shoulder the cost of the expert when its the seller who was most likely trying to pull the wool over someones eyes? just a thought and question.... take care Blll |
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#6
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#7
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I mostly agree. Buyer pays, with the understanding that seller will
reimburse if buyer buys. If it's a floating turd, buyer is hosed. "BllFs6" wrote in message ... Here is point nobody has seemed to explicity address.....but maybe I missed something.... Seller says boat is in conditon A (lots of variables here) for price B.... Buyer says....hey if it actually IS in condition A, you've got a deal for price B! So, buyer brings in "expert" to look things over.... Expert says no friggin way this boat is in condition A, its a floating terd (for whatever particular reason)..... Who pays for expert in the first place and then who pays for expert after buyer smartly says no deal? Now, if seller pays for expert in the first place, it could certainly be conflict of interest....even if buyer is the person who choose the expert.... If buyer pays and chooses the expert in the first place...why should the buyer shoulder the cost of the expert when its the seller who was most likely trying to pull the wool over someones eyes? just a thought and question.... take care Blll |
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#8
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#9
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