Gould 0738 wrote:
If you're going to insist the seller pay for the checkout, you more or less
become obligated to accept whatever documentation the seller *already has*
regarding the mechanical condition.

I disagree.

It's traditional that a buyer pay for all these types of things. part of
the tradition arose from "yachting" in a climate where a boat being sold
is likely to have been laid up for the winter. But in the South there is
no reason to not have your boat in commission all year 'round, and a
boat that has been laid up for a long time is automatically suspect.

In this climate, a seller should expect to have to compromise with a buyer.


... Should the seller be forced to pay for a
fresh inspection for every (possible) looki-loo that comes along?

If the buyer is willing to give demonstration that he's serious, and not
just a tire kicker, then it's the seller's obligation to demonstrate
that the boat is sound in all respects.


As a buyer, you want a fresh, current, unbiased assessment.

Which is why you never never use a surveyor recommended by the seller or
the broker. Which is why you accompany the surveyor and look over his
should and ask a lot of questions.




The reason the buyer wants to pay for the inspection/ haulout/ survey is to
avoid any conflict of interest. You want that surveyor or mechanic working for
*you*, period, and understanding that his task is to help you reach an informed
decision on the boat- not help his actual client (the guy paying his bill) sell
it.

IMHO if the surveyor is to be paid the same regardless of the outcome,
then why would he care who signs his paycheck?

I have never asked a seller to pay my surveyor (but thought about it)
however I have walked away from boat deals when the seller was
uncompromising about making the boat available for my inspection... ie,
insisted that I pay to rig, launch, etc etc, just for a look. In at
least one case I know the boat went unsold for a year or more afterward.



If the cost of launching the boat for a test run seems prohibitive, you have
some real shockeroos in store should you take up boating.

Agreed. But for the sellers out there who want to insist on doing it the
old fashioned way.... there are a heck of a lot of boats for sale out there.

Fair Skies
Doug King

(JAXAshby) wrote in message ...
I must say I would
never consider buying a boat that the owners wouldn't make available for a
test
ride.

it *is* available for a test ride.

As I said in my original post, in my opinion a boat out of the water
is NOT available for a test ride (or as others put it a "sea trial").

YOU pay to put it in the water. *if* YOU
don't have the capability to determine the value of the boat sitting on land
(where in fact ****YOU**** want it to be) then YOU don't have the necessary
skills and talents to use the boat you are thinking of buying.

Why do I "want" the boat to be on land? I don't remember that aspect
of the original post. In fact, the original post simply mentioned
a"boat". They didn't talk about a yaht, a ship, or even a cruiser -
just a boat. Now in your world, Gilligan, a boat may by definition be
some large monstrosity, but to some of us a boat is just a boat - you
know, one of those things you put on a trailer and pull behind your
SUV.

do YOU ree la frickin glee expect the seller to pay to put his boat in the
water just so you can have a free run around the bay at his
expense??????????????????

Yes. If he wants me to progress beyond the initial telephone call
asking his sales price.

That may
simply mean I would never be able to buy a boat in your world though

nor any world with boats biggers than plywood rowboats.

OK Gilligan, get Lovy and the Professor on board and cast off, we only
have three hours ya know.

I have
purchased three used jetskis

gee.

I want a professional to inspect the
boat

a frickin' jet ski?????


"whadda maroon" - B. Bunny

Dave Hall

"Tony Thomas" wrote in message news:HAcVc.2779$9d6.1649@attbi_s54...
I have sold several boats and I have always towed it to the lake and paid to
launch for the test ride.

--
Tony
my boats at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com


Tony,

When I hear discussions regarding the "cost of launching", I assume we
are (most of us) talking about the costs of a travelift or similar
large and expensive piece of marina-owned equipment needed to lower a
vessel to the water for a trial. Depending on the vessel and the
location, this can cost several hundred dollars.

I hope you didn't ask perspective buyers to pay you to tow your
Bayliner to the water with your Saturn...
(See:http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com) ; )

Regards,

Coff

In article , says...

"vze3j5ge" wrote in message
...
My husband and I are considering purchase of a used boat - currently out
of the water at our marina. We've spoken to a marine surveyor we might
hire who says that the engine can be tested to some extent on land but
that we really should put the boat in the water and check it out. Seems
reasonable - but my question is one about procedure. Who usually pays
for the marina to put boat in and take it out again in such a case -
buyer or seller?


I never paid a fee for any boat that I sea trialed. I bought 3 of
them...and walked away from a fourth 'cause the seller and I couldn't reach
an agreement on a lower price after the sea trial. But I still didn't pay
for the sea trial.

Three of the four boats that I sea trialed were sold on consignment by a
dealer. The reason the dealer gets a commission on the sale of a
consignment boat is because he has to take on the responsibility and cost of
launching the boat for sea trials.

There is no way I'd pay a dealer to launch and sea trial a boat that he's
already getting a commission on. That's the reason he's getting a
commission...to put up with the tire kickers.

We're probably not talkin' about trailer boats Nobby.

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On 20 Aug 2004 02:37:13 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

gene, you are dumber than squat. stay out of this discussion. adults
are
talking.


Another cerebral response commensurate with Jax's intellect....
--



Way to go guys. You managed to take this thread south, and fast.

Seems like the question was answered in the first post. It now looks like a
thread of flaming and continued rehashing and arguing about something
answered long ago.

I also see the original poster has stayed away from the thread and frankly I
don't blame her.

In article ,
(Gould 0738) wrote:



You can ask for anything you want. It's all negotiable. My comment merely
reflects the industry norm.

Ding. Ding. Ding. We have a winner!

Chuck finally raised the point that seemed to be escaping those
bickering this issue, and that is there are no absolute terms.
Unregulated transactions are case by case dealings with "what is usually
done" being completely irrelevant from one case to the next.

As the seller you are well within your rights to price your boat
$5000.00 above retail book value, while refusing to pay for the vessel's
launch/sea trail or survey fees. However, the buyer is well within
their right to walk away. As a buyer you are well within your right to
get the boat for $5000.00 under wholesale book value, and insist the
seller launch the boat, pay for the survey, clean the interior, and fill
the gas tank before handing you the keys. Of course, the seller
reserves the right to walk away as well.

Obviously the chances of these two parties coming away with what they
want from each other are nil. So their choice is to move on until they
find someone who will meet their unreasonable demands, or learn to
compromise.

If a seller with any intelligence is really motivated, they will be
amenable to serious buyers, they will work with you to address
reasonable concerns. I've walked away from decent deals because the
seller remained absolute firm on the purchase price but:

1. Acted too imposed about showing the boat and answering questions

2. Didn't want to rig or launch/sea trail a stored boat

If someone really wants to buy your boat, they will understand the
effort you are undertaking to meet with them and show them the boat, and
will not take those efforts lightly. A serious buyer will meet with you
at the time scheduled (or at least call to cancel) and if they like what
they see, will often put earnest money down, at the risk it forfeiture
should they refuse to buy after a satisfactory survey or seal trial.
IMHO, this shows that they are serious about purchasing. I have refused
to show or sea trail a boat to inDUHviduals who:

1. Twice failed to meet or cancel our appointment

2. Failed act with courtesy and respect

As for the original poster, I've always thought when selling the boat it
was in my best interest to demonstrate the boat is worthy of the asking
price, so if my asking price reflected an operational vessel, I "paid"
to launch the boat and sea trail it for the prospective buyer. As a
buyer I've always thought it's in your best interest to have a survey so
you pay for that interest.

To those won't deal in these terms, the choice falls upon you. Accept
their terms, try to understand and work to address each other's
concerns, or walk away. Frankly I won't tolerate the "This is how it's
always/usually done" argument for these transactions. It's a weak
minded argument that I will not stand for as a buyer or seller.

With all the chest beating and name calling over such a subjective
topic, I thought I'd point the obvious out and hope I never have to deal
with most of you as either the buyer or seller.

Sheesh.

Bob Dimond

Now why am I lost in this world. I have owned everything from a rowboat to
a 24' cabin cruiser. I tested a couple of 25' and 26' boats before I found
the 24' one.
And the original question had nothing to do w/ putting it in the water to
have inspected. It only asked who would pay to have it put in the water for
a test ride.

I would assume we are talking about a boat that is not on a trailer and is
probably in the 28' or larger range.

Now, I would not put the boat in the water for a joy ride. However, I would
expect the seller to pay to get it in the water if we have settled on a
price and I am going to get a surveyer there when I test drive.

--
Tony
my boats at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
tony, you are lost to this world. give up you dream of one day owning a
plywood rowboat.


From: "Tony Thomas"
Date: 8/19/2004 9:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: HAcVc.2779$9d6.1649@attbi_s54

If the seller is not willing to pay to have the boat put in the water for
a
test run (and allow the survey to occur while in the water the same day),
then he is not interested in selling the boat. I would never pay at a
marina to have a boat put in the water so I can test drive it when the
boat
is stored there.

As others have stated, buyer pays for the survey.
Seller pays to get it in the water for a test and the fuel (you should
not
be burning much fuel on a test run of maybe a couple miles).

Now if your planning on doing a test drive on say Saturday and the survey
will not occur until another day - you would need to possibly pay for the
second put-in for the surveyor. You should coordinate so all occurs the
same day.

I have sold several boats and I have always towed it to the lake and paid
to
launch for the test ride.

--
Tony
my boats at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com

"vze3j5ge" wrote in message
...
My husband and I are considering purchase of a used boat - currently
out
of the water at our marina. We've spoken to a marine surveyor we might
hire who says that the engine can be tested to some extent on land but
that we really should put the boat in the water and check it out.
Seems
reasonable - but my question is one about procedure. Who usually pays
for the marina to put boat in and take it out again in such a case -
buyer or seller?

Thanks for any help.

Elaine

Post did not ask who paid for the survey. Obviously the purchaser pays for
that.

--
Tony
my boats at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com

"Steve Daniels" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:11:53 -0400, something compelled "Glenn
Deneweth" , to say:

survey, que bono?

I think the seller should incur the cost.

But they don't, and if I were selling I wouldn't either. If you
are the buyer, and you need to hire someone to help you with your
decision, then that's on you. If it were an expensive boat I was
trying to sell, I might adjust the price to reimburse you for the
cost of the survey if you went ahead and bought it, but I'm
certainly not going to spend a few hundred dollars of my own
money to help you reach a decision.

vze3j5ge wrote in message ...
My husband and I are considering purchase of a used boat - currently out
of the water at our marina. We've spoken to a marine surveyor we might
hire who says that the engine can be tested to some extent on land but
that we really should put the boat in the water and check it out. Seems
reasonable - but my question is one about procedure. Who usually pays
for the marina to put boat in and take it out again in such a case -
buyer or seller?



This thread has sparked some heated discussion (surprise and given
you many opinions.

Here is what I do with my common sense and some (not much) boat
buy/sell experience.

The seller should as honestly as possible show and describe everyhting
thats wrong with the boat while on land, i.e. the boat leaks a gallaon
the hour, it runs fine but the throttle linkage is sticks ... it had
such and such hull damage ..

The motor runs fine/ok/not at all or whatever it does... it burns oil
or gearcase leaks.

Buyer then looks at everyhthing and based on the information from the
seller and his OWN impression makes a decission if this deal for the $
works for him.

To verify the sellers info they go for a sea trail which the seller
pays. The seller will NOT go for a sea trail if someone is not sure
about buying the boat if the boat performs as expected (important).

Such sea trail shouldt cost that much for "a boat" if its small ...
and the clever seller will have this cost worked in the sale price
beforehand

Seller assumes he will take 5 customers for trails and each cost him
$30 for gas&launch so he ups his sale price by $150....

The buyer then buys the boat and is happy he didnt have to pay for the
trail
Seller is happy because he also didnt pay for the trail

If the buyer wants the boat checked by a mechanic or surveyor that
should be fully his own responsiblilty to pay for. Seller has to make
the boat available and accesible for this.

Should the seller have lied which is discovered then its a different
story and the fight is on ...

At the same note: Dont buy boats from people who are openly dishonest
(its up to you to determine that).

This is just my opinion as right or wrong it may be.

Always remember common sense, fairness and honesty and the willigness
to compromise is half the deal. I noticed that people you treat fair
will lateron be willing to help which is worth more than a few $.

A good deal is one that both parties would do again under the same
circumstances knowing what they know after the deal.

I dont know what value boat we are talking about but if its a $30000
boat then IMO its really irrelevant to argue wo pays $50 for a sea
trail.

Matt

You are correct. That is what several people including myself have been
saying.

--
Tony
my boats at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com

"Matt Lang" wrote in message
om...
vze3j5ge wrote in message
...
My husband and I are considering purchase of a used boat - currently out
of the water at our marina. We've spoken to a marine surveyor we might
hire who says that the engine can be tested to some extent on land but
that we really should put the boat in the water and check it out. Seems
reasonable - but my question is one about procedure. Who usually pays
for the marina to put boat in and take it out again in such a case -
buyer or seller?



This thread has sparked some heated discussion (surprise and given
you many opinions.

Here is what I do with my common sense and some (not much) boat
buy/sell experience.

The seller should as honestly as possible show and describe everyhting
thats wrong with the boat while on land, i.e. the boat leaks a gallaon
the hour, it runs fine but the throttle linkage is sticks ... it had
such and such hull damage ..

The motor runs fine/ok/not at all or whatever it does... it burns oil
or gearcase leaks.

Buyer then looks at everyhthing and based on the information from the
seller and his OWN impression makes a decission if this deal for the $
works for him.

To verify the sellers info they go for a sea trail which the seller
pays. The seller will NOT go for a sea trail if someone is not sure
about buying the boat if the boat performs as expected (important).

Such sea trail shouldt cost that much for "a boat" if its small ...
and the clever seller will have this cost worked in the sale price
beforehand

Seller assumes he will take 5 customers for trails and each cost him
$30 for gas&launch so he ups his sale price by $150....

The buyer then buys the boat and is happy he didnt have to pay for the
trail
Seller is happy because he also didnt pay for the trail

If the buyer wants the boat checked by a mechanic or surveyor that
should be fully his own responsiblilty to pay for. Seller has to make
the boat available and accesible for this.

Should the seller have lied which is discovered then its a different
story and the fight is on ...

At the same note: Dont buy boats from people who are openly dishonest
(its up to you to determine that).

This is just my opinion as right or wrong it may be.

Always remember common sense, fairness and honesty and the willigness
to compromise is half the deal. I noticed that people you treat fair
will lateron be willing to help which is worth more than a few $.

A good deal is one that both parties would do again under the same
circumstances knowing what they know after the deal.

I dont know what value boat we are talking about but if its a $30000
boat then IMO its really irrelevant to argue wo pays $50 for a sea
trail.

Matt