That's what I mean. My trawler throws a pretty nice "swell" at 8 knots,
maybe a foot or more. But there's no white water, except right where the bow
is plowing through. I'll see what happens when I get to FL. The more I read
about it, the more I want to get through there as fast as possible. Seems
like they are getting really unfriendly to boaters, and the manatee issue is
mostly political, best as I can tell. But since when did environmentalists
need science?

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
BTW, what exactly is "no wake". Sorry, but EVERY boat underway makes a
wake.
This leaves the interpretation up to the local yokel cops, who are mostly
intent on generating revenue from boaters.


You're right that every cop becomes the judge of whether or not your
vessel is
creating a wake. It's impossible to haul the wake into court for evidence,
so
it boils down to "He said vs. He said."

One standard that I have encountered seems to make a ton of sense: If the
bow
wave is breaking, the boat is creating a wake.

A ripple is not a wake......unless the local cop has not been "awake" and
needs
an easy ticket for the afternoon. :-)

Don,
That post is as empty as last years birdnest.

CF

Don White wrote:
Scott McFadden wrote in message
snip...

Nor manatees, nor even the slightest clue about the real situation,
either.
..just lots of free wind.
As you've demonstrated.


Ok...let me see...
certain group of beligerent 'good ole boys' demand right to race around in
overpowered motorboats anywhere they
please, regardless of damage or irritation caused to any other livng
creature that may share same waterways.
...close???


Btw are you canucks still cutting down all those pine forests and
selling them here in the US? I think we are going to have to put real
high tariffs on you for that notorious and shameful behavior.
Save the Canadian Pine Trees!


GeorgeW has already beaten you to it.
Besides, the forests in my province are mostly spruce and fir. Not nearly
enough pine.

Hoist the sail and save the manatee.

jchaplain wrote:
Don, I think you must have struck a nerve with NYOB.....lol. Must be
right on the money.



Ok...let me see...
certain group of beligerent 'good ole boys' demand right to race around in
overpowered motorboats anywhere they
please, regardless of damage or irritation caused to any other livng
creature that may share same waterways.
...close???

Another case of the uniformed Canadian sticking his nose in America's
business...




Yep. I think you've root-canaled him on this one.


Email sent to is never read.

Another empty nester.

CF

bb wrote:

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:12:46 GMT, "Don White"
wrote:



Ok...let me see...
certain group of beligerent 'good ole boys' demand right to race around in
overpowered motorboats anywhere they
please, regardless of damage or irritation caused to any other livng
creature that may share same waterways.
...close???


Sounds about right.

bb

You got that right NYOB. And, I do have a branch of my charter business
in St. Pete. But plan to retire to Astor.

I couldn't agree more. I wonder if DW and BB have a true clue. Perhaps
someday they can afford to vacation for an extended stay in Fl, and get
a glimmer of the true picture. I don't think either of them have a clue.
Now let's see if we can educate the poor snow birds.

Clues for the Canucks

In 1978, when the sea cow was determined to be endangered, it truly was.
There were about 400 specimens remaining in the wild. Not due to boat,
but industrial pollution, mostly from the many mills producing toilet
paper, Kraft Paper, and writing products, that we, the boaters, had been
howling about for years. Privately funded groups such as Sea World,
Marineland, SIlver Springs Attractions and Weeki Watchi began lobbying
for reductions in pollutants, and local government jumped on the bandwagon.

Boats and boaters had little or nothing to do with the decline of the
manatee population then as they have these days. The boaters call in
more "Sick Cow" reports than any other group by a factor of 10.

End Clues For Canucks

Began Conclusion For Canucks

So Canucks! Paper, paper, paper, and PLASTIC its all over your house and
guess what!!!! It all comes from the south! from those very polluting
mills on the St. Johns river and ICW system. The next you go to the
butcher and bring home a wrapped haunch, buy a toy in a cardboard box,
buy anything made from nylon, rayon, dacron, fiberglass resen, pvc or
send or receive a written check, or plastic credit card, send mail in a
paper envelope, read the newspaper or ~wipe your ass,~ remember that you
are harming manatees too. (Capt. F sticks toung out.)

I love it when Canadians come to vacation in Florida. They always go
home with a different perspective. Besides, they are some of my best
customers!

Capt. Frank

NOYB wrote:

The manatee's numbers are increasing Don. In fact, the numbers are more
than double what they were when they were placed on the list. And all of
that growth in the population occurred before the *new* unnecessary
regulations that Save the Manatee coerced (through lawsuits and back room
deals) the Feds into enacting.

The science doesn't back the need to maintain the manatee on the "endangered
list"...nor does it support the need to enforce *new* regulations. The sea
cow was doing fine just the way things were.





"Don White" wrote in message
news
I think the survival of an endangered species is a universal concern...not
just 'merican.

NOYB wrote in message
om...

Another case of the uniformed Canadian sticking his nose in America's
business...

Capt. Frank Hopkins wrote:

You got that right NYOB. And, I do have a branch of my charter business
in St. Pete. But plan to retire to Astor.

I couldn't agree more. I wonder if DW and BB have a true clue. Perhaps
someday they can afford to vacation for an extended stay in Fl, and get
a glimmer of the true picture. I don't think either of them have a clue.
Now let's see if we can educate the poor snow birds.

Clues for the Canucks


The *fact* of the matter is, you're simply spreading boater propaganda
here, regarding manatees, rather than posting any sort of acceptable
science.

You're entitled to do that, of course,

The fact is that there is no accurate census on manatees now. There are
guesses, that is all. I've read some of the reports that detailed some
of the census techniques, and these are laughable, at best.

Your posts on manatee behavior are little more than a regurgitation of
everything every boating group in Florida has posted in defense of
higher boat speeds. I'm a part-time Floridian, and I'm aware of some
aspects of manatee population and behavior. My observations lead me to
different conclusions than much of what you've posted.

There's more at play here than manatees, of course. There's the issue of
high boat speeds, enormous boat wakes, careless boater behavior, driving
a boat while under the influence - these are all issues, along with
protecting manatees - that play into efforts to control the speed at
which boats are operated in the more protected Florida waters.

I used to live along the ICW, between the new bridge just north of St.
Augustine and the bend that turns towards the little airport basin. I'm
sure you are familiar with the general area. I filed many a complaint
about reckless boaters, boaters violating the no-wake zones and against
boaters, especially an airboater in the neighborhood, who violated noise
regulations. We also had some manatees in the area, very friendly ones,
who liked to patrol between where we were and the edge of Salt Run at
the S.A. inlet. Their presence added more to the general atmosphere of
the place than any overstuffed cruisers wallowing by, tossing up 8-foot
wakes.

You want some less restrictive regs that "protect" manatees? Then work
harder to prosecute irresponsible boaters.


--
Email sent to is never read.

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:04:22 GMT, "Capt. Frank Hopkins"
wrote:

I couldn't agree more. I wonder if DW and BB have a true clue. Perhaps
someday they can afford to vacation for an extended stay in Fl, and get
a glimmer of the true picture. I don't think either of them have a clue.

I've lived in the Tampa Bay area since 1957, Frank. I make my living
on the water, and have for the last 25 years. I think I've got a
pretty good first hand view of the situation.

For the most part, my experience has been anyone, non-military, who
calls themselves "captain", is a joke. You've done your part to
reinforce that opinion.

bb

My home port is the 2nd largest natural harbour in the world and we have a
speed limit.
I don't know what his problem is.
If he had to survive something like the Halifax Explosion, he might be more
inclined to accept responsibility for reckless actions. see
http://archives.cbc.ca/300c.asp?id=1-70-971


jchaplain wrote in message
...
Don, I think you must have struck a nerve with NYOB.....lol. Must be
right on the money.



Ok...let me see...
certain group of beligerent 'good ole boys' demand right to race around
in
overpowered motorboats anywhere they
please, regardless of damage or irritation caused to any other livng
creature that may share same waterways.
...close???

Another case of the uniformed Canadian sticking his nose in America's
business...

Harry Krause wrote in message
...
jchaplain wrote:
Don, I think you must have struck a nerve with NYOB.....lol. Must be
right on the money.



Ok...let me see...
certain group of beligerent 'good ole boys' demand right to race
around in
overpowered motorboats anywhere they
please, regardless of damage or irritation caused to any other livng
creature that may share same waterways.
...close???

Another case of the uniformed Canadian sticking his nose in America's
business...




Yep. I think you've root-canaled him on this one.


Email sent to is never read.

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 04:36:12 GMT, "Capt. Frank Hopkins"
wrote:

He still needs to keep his parrot beak
out of politics.

Ah yes, in the true spirit of American politics, silence dissent.

bb