Sorry, but it is my position that the U.S. taxpayers ought to pick up
the tab for back-home leave for soldiers risking their lives in a war
zone.



Ask not what.............................................. .................

JohnH wrote:


jps, pay attention:

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with
the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including,
if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to
respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its
weapons of mass destruction programs." -- From a letter signed by Joe
Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John
Kerry among others on October 9, 1998


What's your point here, John? Such letters are written and signed every
single day by every member of Congree for every possible reason.
Besides, Bush invaded Iraq for reasons connected to 9-11, or so he
claimed at the time, plus a handful of other reasons that proved equally
fallacious.


Now, I see, Bush is bowing to reality and is planning to skip out of
"running" Iraq just before the fall elections. So. we'll have *ANOTHER*
Bush president who failed to resolve the serious issues of Iraq.

About that time, Americans are going to be asked whether they are better
off than they were four years ago. For most, the answer will be a
resounding no. C.f. this piece which ran in the NY Times yesterday and
was syndicated today to hundreds of hometown newspapers:

For Middle Class, Health Insurance Becomes a Luxury

DALLAS The last time Kevin Thornton had health insurance was three years
ago, which was not much of a problem until he began having trouble
swallowing.
"I broke down earlier this year and went in and talked to a doctor about
it," said Mr. Thornton, who lives in Sherman, about 60 miles north of
Dallas.
A barium X-ray cost him $130, and the radiologist another $70, expenses
he charged to his credit cards. The doctor ordered other tests that Mr.
Thornton simply could not afford.
"I was supposed to go back after the X-ray results came, but I decided
just to live with it for a while," he said. "I may just be a walking
time bomb."
Mr. Thornton, 41, left a stable job with good health coverage in 1998
for a higher salary at a dot-com company that went bust a few months
later. Since then, he has worked on contract for various companies,
including one that provided insurance until the project ended in 2000.
"I failed to keep up the payments that would have been required to
maintain my coverage," he said. "It was just too much money."
Mr. Thornton is one of more than 43 million people in the United States
who lack health insurance, and their numbers are rapidly increasing
because of ever soaring cost and job losses. Many states, including
Texas, are also cutting back on subsidies for health care, further
increasing the number of people with no coverage.
The majority of the uninsured are neither poor by official standards nor
unemployed. They are accountants like Mr. Thornton, employees of small
businesses, civil servants, single working mothers and those working
part time or on contract.
"Now it's hitting people who look like you and me, dress like you and
me, drive nice cars and live in nice houses but can't afford $1,000 a
month for health insurance for their families," said R. King Hillier,
director of legislative relations for Harris County, which includes Houston.

*Paying for health insurance is becoming a middle-class problem, and not
just here. "After paying for health insurance, you take home less than
minimum wage," says a poster in New York City subways sponsored by
Working Today, a nonprofit agency that offers health insurance to
independent contractors in New York. "Welcome to middle-class poverty."
*In Southern California, 70,000 supermarket workers have been on strike
for five weeks over plans to cut their health benefits.*

The insurance crisis is especially visible in Texas, which has the
highest proportion of uninsured in the country almost one in every four
residents. The state has a large population of immigrants; its labor
market is dominated by low-wage service sector jobs, and it has a higher
than average number of small businesses, which are less likely to
provide health benefits because they pay higher insurance costs than
large companies.
State cuts to subsidies for health insurance to help close a $10 billion
budget gap will cost the state $500 million in federal matching money
and are expected to further spur the rise in uninsured. In September,
for example, more than half a million children enrolled in a state- and
federal-subsidized insurance program lost dental, vision and most mental
care coverage, and some 169,000 children will lose all insurance by 2005.
"These were tough economic times that the legislature was dealing with,
and the governor believed in setting the tone for the legislative
session that the government must operate the way Texas families do and
Texas businesses do and live within its means," said Kathy Walt,
spokeswoman for Gov. Rick Perry.
She noted that the legislature raised spending on health and human
services by $1 billion this year, and that lawmakers passed two bills
intended to make it easier for small businesses to provide health
insurance for their employees.
Those measures, however, will not help Theresa Pardo or other Texas
residents like her who have to make tough choices about medical care
they need but cannot afford.
Ms. Pardo, a 29-year-old from Houston, said that having no insurance
meant choosing between buying an inhaler for her 9-year-old asthmatic
daughter or buying her a birthday present. The girl, Morgan, lost her
state-subsidized insurance last month, and now her mother must pay $80
instead of $5 for the inhaler.
Rent, car payments and insurance, day care and utilities cost Ms. Pardo
more than $1,200 a month, leaving less than $200 for food, gas and other
expenses. So even though her employer, the Harris County government,
provides her with low-cost insurance, she cannot afford the $275 a month
she would have to pay to add her daughter to her plan.
When Morgan's dentist recently wanted to pull a tooth, Ms. Pardo
hesitated. The tooth extraction proceeded, but: "I had to ask him, if
you pull this tooth, will it cause other problems? Because if it does, I
can't afford to deal with them."
Lorenda Stevenson said her choice was between buying medicine to treat
patches of peeling, flaking skin on her hands, arms and face and making
sure her son could continue his after-school tennis program. "There's no
way I will cut that out unless we don't have money for food," she said.
Mrs. Stevenson's husband, Bill, lost his management job at WorldCom two
years ago, when an accounting scandal forced the company into
bankruptcy. They managed to pay $900 a month for Cobra, the government
policy that allows workers to continue their coverage after they lose
their jobs, but when the cost rose to $1,200, they could no longer
afford it.
When their son, a ninth grader, needed a physical and shot to take
tennis, Mrs. Stevenson turned to the Rockwall Area Health Clinic, a
nonprofit clinic in Rockwall, a city of 13,000 northeast of Dallas. The
clinic charged her $20 instead of the $400 she estimated she would have
paid at the doctor's office.
"I sat filling out the paperwork and crying," she said, tears streaming
down her face. "I was so embarrassed to bring him here."
A salve to treat her skin condition costs $27, and she pays roughly $50
a month for medications for high blood pressure and hormones. She does
without medication she needs for acid reflux, treating the conditions
sporadically with samples from the clinic.
Carol Johnston cannot afford even doctor visits. A single mother in
Houston, she lost her job in health care administration in May and said
she was still unemployed despite filling out 500 to 600 applications and
attending countless job fairs.
Cobra would have cost $214 a month, or more than one-fifth of the $1,028
in unemployment she gets a month. As it is, her monthly bills for rent,
car, utilities and phone exceed her income.
She got a 12-month deferral on her student loans, and Ford pushed her
car payments back by two months. The Johnstons rely on television for
entertainment and almost never use air-conditioning, despite Houston's
muggy, hot climate.
Now Ms. Johnston's 16-year-old son is losing the portion of his
insurance that covered treatment for his learning and emotional
disabilities because of state cutbacks.
Ms. Johnston herself does not qualify for Medicaid, the government
insurance program for the indigent, because her income is too high, the
same reason she qualifies for only $10 a month in food stamps. "I worry,
I worry so much about making sure my son is safe," she said.
As for her own health, Ms. Johnston has two cysts in one breast and
three in another but has had only one aspirated because she cannot
afford to check on the others. "Do I have to move to Iraq to get help?"
she asked. "They have $87 billion for folks over there," she said,
referring to money Congress allocated for military operations and
rebuilding.
Experts warn that allowing health problems to fester is only going to
increase the costs of health care for the uninsured. "As Americans, when
are we going to realize it's cheaper to save them on the front end than
when they get cancer and show up in the emergency room?" said Sandra B.
Thurman, executive director of PediPlace, a nonprofit health clinic in
Lewisville, Tex.
Many hospitals and neighborhood clinics here say that the well-heeled
are now joining the poor in seeking their care. Emergency rooms are
particularly hard hit, since federal law requires them to treat anyone
who walks through their doors for emergency treatment, regardless of
whether they can pay.
Public hospital emergency rooms are even harder hit, since private
hospitals will move quickly to shift uninsured patients to them. And
clinics for the poor are also seeing an increase in demand.
A clinic run by Central Dallas Ministries charges patients $5 for a
doctor visit, $10 for medication and $15 if laboratory work is needed,
but often settles for no payment from many of the 3,500 patients it
treats each year.
"I'm not real optimistic it will get a lot better," said Larry Morris
James, executive director of Central Dallas Ministries. "Demographic and
economic trends tell you that it's probably going to get worse."
For Irma Arellano, the problem has already hit home. Mrs. Arellano is a
secretary in the Royse school district northeast of Dallas, which
provides her health insurance for $35 a month but offers no discounts
for her three children or husband.
Two years ago, the Arellanos paid $269 a month to insure the family. The
price jumped last year to $339 and this year to $780, more than their
monthly mortgage payment.
Her husband works for a small landscaping company that does not offer
insurance. So Mrs. Arellano is insured, but her husband, Jose, and their
three children Jackie, 16; Joe, 15; and Anthony, 13 are going without
insurance.
The Arellanos' income, which ranges from $2,800 to $3,200 a month, makes
them ineligible for state-subsidized insurance. Their basic expenses run
$2,000 a month or more.
"I'm one of those people in the middle," Mrs. Arellano said. "We don't
make enough to pay for insurance ourselves, but we make too much to
qualify for CHIP," the government-subsidized program for children.
So her children were recently at the Rockwall clinic for the physicals
they need to participate in after-school sports, paying $25 instead of
the $100 or more Mrs. Arellano would have paid at the doctor's office.
The family has catastrophic insurance, but Mrs. Arellano is uncertain
how much longer she can afford it. Mr. Arellano's income typically drops
in the winter, and his wife is hoping the children will then qualify for
the state insurance program.
Even so, newly initiated regulations require families to reapply for the
insurance every six months, rather than once a year, so they are not
likely to qualify for long.
"I'll take what I can get," Mrs. Arellano said.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Under Bush, the middle class is becoming the impoverished class.


Are we better off than we were four years ago?

No.

--
Email sent to is never read.

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 15:40:53 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

JohnH wrote:

Harry, are you going to sell your boat(s)? It would provide a sizeable donation
and, in your estimation, do a lot to help get the country on the track you
desire - socialism. If you decide to sell, please let me know.

My boats are always "for sale," John, since I'm always looking forward
to the next one.





Sure wish you had been around during Vietnam.

I was.


I could have used some of the
money to help me fund my R&R. Have you considered going to an airport and buying
a soldier a ticket? No?


Any soldier returning home for leave from the battlefield should have
his ticket paid for by Uncle Sam, courtesy of the US taxpayers. Why
should a soldier have to pay his way home for leave from a war zone?

As a soldier, I never considered a difference between going on leave from a
combat zone or going on leave from a non-combat zone. I chose to take the leave,
I chose to go where I went, and I made the choice knowing I'd pay for it.

There were a whole lot of things the government could have paid for. Thermarest
mattresses are great in a field environment, but the Army didn't buy me one. I
love my little maglites, but the Army didn't buy me one. In Vietnam I had to
fund my own Kabar knife. I was an engineer, and the Army wouldn't buy me one. I
could go on, but you should be getting the point.

Now, I have tried not to call any names, and I answered this only because you
asked a question. I'm going to try to be good, so don't feel a need to respond
to this.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

JohnH wrote:

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 15:40:53 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

JohnH wrote:

Harry, are you going to sell your boat?


Are you making an offer here?



--
Email sent to is never read.

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:29:08 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

JohnH wrote:

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 15:40:53 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

JohnH wrote:

Harry, are you going to sell your boat?


Are you making an offer here?
Gotta see what my tax situation is first. If my tax cut is big enough, I may
have to spend the money on a new boat, thus keeping unemployment to a minimum.
If, however, the tax cut is too small, or deleted, or wisely spent by the
government on something else, then I'll have to consider selling my boat!

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

In article ,
says...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message

Bush is a disaster; can't you righties begin to admit it?

Oh, I freely admit it! And revel in it! GW is an unmitigated disaster for
you, Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, Patrick Leahy, Judy Woodruff, Katie Couric,
Barbra Streisand, and many, many others of similar ilk, and this can only be
a wonderfully good thing for our Nation. I am unabashedly ecstatic!


For one with an ability to argue the point, you certainly give up
easily.

In article ,
88 says...
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:29:08 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

JohnH wrote:

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 15:40:53 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

JohnH wrote:

Harry, are you going to sell your boat?


Are you making an offer here?
Gotta see what my tax situation is first. If my tax cut is big enough, I may
have to spend the money on a new boat, thus keeping unemployment to a minimum.
If, however, the tax cut is too small, or deleted, or wisely spent by the
government on something else, then I'll have to consider selling my boat!

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD


Aw, you're such a patriot. I bet you're thinking about selling your
boat to fund more bombing. Maybe you should just sign it over the
government to enable more harbor patrols. We're going to need to pick
up our vigilance given all the recruiting we're facilitating for radical
Islamists.

"jps" wrote in message !


For one with an ability to argue the point, you certainly give up
easily.

Thanks, I think. :-)

Painting in one room and laying a floor in another today. Only intermittent
three minute blocks to play. :-)

JG

Painting in one room and laying a floor in another today. Only
intermittent
three minute blocks to play. :-)

JG

Shouldn't the government be taking care of that for you?

"Joe" wrote in message news:1FUtb.63743

Shouldn't the government be taking care of that for you?

By God, you're right! I'm entitled! I'll call my junior Senator, Candidate
Kerry!

BTW..... did you see Kerry and his "Dukakis Moment" last week on Leno? I
missed it, but my wife tells me it was something to see. Dean can have that
rebel-flag-on-the-pickup vote -- our boy is going for the
scuff-leather-chain-beater-open-pipe-kick-ass-hard-tail-fat-bob vote. It's
over!