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A proposal
Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
A proposal
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
A proposal
On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
A proposal
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them, and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence, you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop? When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get behind your proposal that puts them at real risk. I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will go on about their day. However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security. If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn bad. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. |
A proposal
On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them, and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence, you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop? When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get behind your proposal that puts them at real risk. I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will go on about their day. However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security. If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn bad. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for something else. My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done? -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
A proposal
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:r
Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racialprofiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths.My thought:When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimespassenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes asearch for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrantexists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for theminor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but forthe outstanding bench warrant.This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".Maybe that needs to change.What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included inthe "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that causedthe police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a brokentail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check foranything else, based on the officer's suspicions.If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or heris a different issue altogether and other means of apprehendingthe person should be used, specifically with the warrant beingthe issue.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com I wholeheartedly and unequivically disagree with your proposal. :-) -- Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet? ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html |
A proposal
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 9:30:51 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them, and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence, you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop? When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get behind your proposal that puts them at real risk. I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will go on about their day. However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security. If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn bad. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for something else. I guess I misread this? "The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue." We can't expect police to stop a vehicle for some traffic violation, then just walk up to the driver's window without running the plate. If that's what you are proposing, then expect a lot more dead cops. Plenty have died doing just that even with running the plates first. And if a cop pulls someone over and discovers they have an outstanding warrant for burglary and assault, are you really wanting them to ignore that? I don't. What if the burglary and assault were at your son's or daughter's house? Feel differently about that? My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done? About racial profiling? It has been deemed unconstitutional for years and there are various laws against doing it. "Federal and state laws prohibit racial discrimination or profiling by police in various ways. The U.S. Constitution guarantees equal protection under the law and protects individuals from unreasonable search and seizure. The federal Civil Rights Act and many states civil or human rights acts make it illegal for a government actor (like the police) to discriminate against someone on the basis of race, color, or national origin. And a number of states' laws also specifically prohibit officers from engaging in racial profiling in the performance of their duties." So are there some bad cops who profile. Likely. Are there some bad people who falsely accuse cops of profiling them? Likely as well. One thing is for sure... neutering or defunding the police (which is a bit of what you are suggesting and what many in today's society want to do) is certainly not the answer. I don't want to live in a third-world kind of country where the bad guys rule the streets and the police are powerless to do anything about it. Do you? |
A proposal
On 4/20/2021 11:21 AM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:r Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racialprofiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths.My thought:When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimespassenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes asearch for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrantexists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for theminor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but forthe outstanding bench warrant.This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".Maybe that needs to change.What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included inthe "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that causedthe police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a brokentail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check foranything else, based on the officer's suspicions.If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or heris a different issue altogether and other means of apprehendingthe person should be used, specifically with the warrant beingthe issue.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com I wholeheartedly and unequivically disagree with your proposal. :-) That's ok. I won't hold it against you. :-) I don't think I have been clear enough but the heck with it. I guess we'll just have to keep doing things the same way over and over and over with no progress ever made or expected. |
A proposal
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. Cops would be quick to point out, traffic stops solve more felonies and result in more felony arrests than detective work. Without traffic stops about half of the drug war wouldn't be able to be prosecuted. Cops call a traffic stop a "tool", AKA a way to get around your rights. (searches, interrogations without Miranda etc) They are not going to give that up. Look at it another way. If they catch a wanted serial killer on a traffic stop, do you want him driving away with a speeding ticket and a smile on his face? |
A proposal
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. The SCOTUS disagrees with you. Once you are on the side of the road the court has given cops great latitude in what they can do. These are just a few of the cases I researched ILLINOIS v. CABALLES dog can search your car on a traffic stop http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...s/543/405.html Terry v. Ohio, stop and frisk BERKEMER v. McCARTY Cop can ask questions on a traffic stop without Miranda like have you been Drinking? but it doesn't have to stop there. MARYLAND v. WILSON Everyone can be told to get out and be searched In the process of any of this if something illegal is found, you can be arrested. As for the computer search, that horse left the barn over 2 decades ago when cops got laptops in their cars. Now they are hooked to license plate scanners and it is likely the cop knows the owner has a warrant before he even stops the car. Then the question would be whether knowing the owner has a warrant PC to stop a car. OTOH I have never known a cop who said he couldn't find a reason to pull a car over if he wanted to. There are equipment violations people commit all the time (I.E most license plate rings are illegal). It is also hard not to commit some kind of traffic offense if they watch you long enough and there is always the ubiquitous "weaving". At the end of the day it is always your word against the cop on a traffic stop anyway. RADAR guns don't even log anything. It said what he says it said. They also understand a guy like you might have a lawyer on speed dial and the resources to pursue it so they are not as likely to target you. Is that profiling? Maybe. A guy with warrants and a public defender is not getting that kind of sympathy |
A proposal
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 09:30:50 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them, and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence, you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop? When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get behind your proposal that puts them at real risk. I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will go on about their day. However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security. If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn bad. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for something else. My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done? Dante Wright was driving with bad tags. That is not a minor offense. In states that are serious about taxes (probably yours) the BEST you can hope for is a ticket and a cab ride home because they will tow your car. I know that is how it works in Md. It is the same with insurance, which Mr Wright did not have. The cop probably knew that too. I know insurance status pops up as soon as the cop runs your tag in Florida. Once they impound the car, they will "inventory" the contents "for your protection" but if they find anything illegal, you get charged for that too. They can already search the parts of the car "for weapons" accessible to the occupants. Again in that "weapons search" if they turn up anything illegal, off you go. |
A proposal
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 4:59:53 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 09:30:50 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them, and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence, you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop? When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get behind your proposal that puts them at real risk. I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will go on about their day. However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security. If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn bad. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for something else. My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done? Dante Wright was driving with bad tags. That is not a minor offense. In states that are serious about taxes (probably yours) the BEST you can hope for is a ticket and a cab ride home because they will tow your car. I know that is how it works in Md. It is the same with insurance, which Mr Wright did not have. The cop probably knew that too. I know insurance status pops up as soon as the cop runs your tag in Florida. Once they impound the car, they will "inventory" the contents "for your protection" but if they find anything illegal, you get charged for that too. They can already search the parts of the car "for weapons" accessible to the occupants. Again in that "weapons search" if they turn up anything illegal, off you go. The technology has been around for many years for a police car to simply cruise a parking lot or drive down a road and get hits from tags. They have cameras facing all four sides, and the cameras look at the tags, reads them and sends the info back to a database to run them for issues. I saw a demonstration of this, and it only took a 1/4 second "glimpse" of the tag to read it and get the info. A positive hit results in an apprehension, or at least a stop to investigate. I'm all for it. I have nothing to hide. |
A proposal
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
A proposal
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:27:30 PM UTC-4, John H wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. So it's not legal to make sure a person that is breaking the law is not under an active warrant for breaking another law/? WTF? "It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another." Again, WTF? The cause for arrest is the INITIAL warrant for the first infraction, not the stop. The stop just brought the individual to the attention of law enforcement. They had been evading law enforcement until that point. |
A proposal
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them, and let them go so things don't get violent?Â* If the person has a history of violence, Â* you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop? When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are bringing into your company everyday.Â* But police officers should have their hands tied and not know who they are dealing with?Â* They are doing a very valuable and dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately.Â* I just can't get behind your proposal that puts them at real risk. I have an idea.Â* If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will go on about their day. However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security. If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn bad.Â* Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for something else. My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done? These are two different issues.Â* Stopping someone because they are black is just wrong.Â* Stopping someone for a legitimate infraction and finding out they have a warrant is grounds for detaining them. There are plenty of non-black people with warrants.Â* The LEO should have that information so they can respond accordingly.Â* What they do from there is a matter of training and the law. |
A proposal
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:r
On 4/20/2021 11:21 AM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:r Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racialprofiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths.My thought:When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimespassenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes asearch for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrantexists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for theminor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but forthe outstanding bench warrant.This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".Maybe that needs to change.What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included inthe "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that causedthe police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a brokentail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check foranything else, based on the officer's suspicions.If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or heris a different issue altogether and other means of apprehendingthe person should be used, specifically with the warrant beingthe issue.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com I wholeheartedly and unequivically disagree with your proposal. :-) That's ok. I won't hold it against you. :-)I don't think I have been clear enough butthe heck with it. I guess we'll just haveto keep doing things the same way over andover and over with no progress ever madeor expected. -- Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet? ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html |
A proposal
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:r
On 4/20/2021 11:21 AM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:r Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racialprofiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths.My thought:When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimespassenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes asearch for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrantexists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for theminor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but forthe outstanding bench warrant.This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".Maybe that needs to change.What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included inthe "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that causedthe police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a brokentail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check foranything else, based on the officer's suspicions.If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or heris a different issue altogether and other means of apprehendingthe person should be used, specifically with the warrant beingthe issue.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com I wholeheartedly and unequivically disagree with your proposal. :-) That's ok. I won't hold it against you. :-)I don't think I have been clear enough butthe heck with it. I guess we'll just haveto keep doing things the same way over andover and over with no progress ever madeor expected. Don't be discouraged. They are taking baby steps. First the cops are held acountable for their actions. Next step should be making criminals acountable for their actions, including wet backs, looters, and rioters. -- Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet? ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html |
A proposal
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 19:57:24 -0400, Alex wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them, and let them go so things don't get violent?Â* If the person has a history of violence, Â* you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop? When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are bringing into your company everyday.Â* But police officers should have their hands tied and not know who they are dealing with?Â* They are doing a very valuable and dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately.Â* I just can't get behind your proposal that puts them at real risk. I have an idea.Â* If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will go on about their day. However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security. If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn bad.Â* Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for something else. My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done? These are two different issues.Â* Stopping someone because they are black is just wrong.Â* Stopping someone for a legitimate infraction and finding out they have a warrant is grounds for detaining them. There are plenty of non-black people with warrants.Â* The LEO should have that information so they can respond accordingly.Â* What they do from there is a matter of training and the law. My DC cop buddy (High school friend I still talk to) explained it another way. When he sees a car with bad tags and equipment violations he assumes if this guy is not maintaining his vehicle or his registration, there is a good chance he doesn't have insurance and there may be other legal things he has not attended to, like a warrant for failure to appear. Is that profiling or just reasonable suspicion? No matter what he know he has a bad tag charge. Dante wasn't even that innocent. He had a felony warrant for violating the terms of his bail. He was going to be held without bond until his trial for armed robbery. The stop was botched from the beginning and the other officer is as negligent as Potter who shot him. They should have never lost control of the subject. Wright should have been behind the car with both hands on the trunk and the cop should have been able to cuff him in seconds, not fumble around like he did. The whole damned thing looked like a training film of what not to do. |
A proposal
On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense. But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some. Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
A proposal
On 4/20/2021 8:03 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:r On 4/20/2021 11:21 AM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:r Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racialprofiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths.My thought:When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimespassenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes asearch for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrantexists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for theminor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but forthe outstanding bench warrant.This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".Maybe that needs to change.What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included inthe "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that causedthe police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a brokentail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check foranything else, based on the officer's suspicions.If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or heris a different issue altogether and other means of apprehendingthe person should be used, specifically with the warrant beingthe issue.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com I wholeheartedly and unequivically disagree with your proposal. :-) That's ok. I won't hold it against you. :-)I don't think I have been clear enough butthe heck with it. I guess we'll just haveto keep doing things the same way over andover and over with no progress ever madeor expected. In many ways I do. In other ways I don't. |
A proposal
On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news.Â* The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID.Â* That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person.Â* If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever.Â* It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense.Â* But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some.Â* Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring, and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently, and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the public or the police is obvious and imminent. George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely. Period. -- * Lock up Trump and his family of grifters. * |
A proposal
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:r
On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now.That was not the point of my "proposal".I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot becausethey are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to boltbecause the police then attempt to arrest for an outstandingwarrant.If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine,arrest the person.If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags orinspection sticker ... that's the offense they should beguilty of and receive a ticket.I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not commonsense. But the ability of the police to arrestyou for something else in your record that had nothingto do with the reason for stopping the person in thefirst place, will result in theseshootings and killings to continue.Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony.Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony.Failure to pay child support is not a deathpenalty crime.If someone is guilty of the above, they should belocated and arrested on the merit of the outstandingwarrant, not for a traffic violation that it seemstoo often escalates into a shooting.I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into ascrewed-up screaming liberal like some. Justtrying to think of ways to keep people alive.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com EDUCATION for everyone: Teach folks to respect police. Teach folks to respect each other. Teach them to respect the law. Teach them to not resist arrest. Teach them not to run. Teach them how not to be shot during a police stop. Teach them "If you do the crime prepare to do the time" Help the police help you stay alive and safe. Just a thought from sunny,warm Florida :-) -- Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet? ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html |
A proposal
Keyser Söze Wrote in message:r
On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense. But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some. Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring, and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently, and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the public or the police is obvious and imminent.George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely. Period.-- * Lock up Trump and his family of grifters. * Maybe Bidens investigation will determine why, once Floyd was subdued, action wasn't taken to move him to a secure location like the back seat of a police car. -- Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet? ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html |
A proposal
On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 13:16:48 UTC-3, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:r On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for .... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight.. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now.That was not the point of my "proposal".I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot becausethey are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to boltbecause the police then attempt to arrest for an outstandingwarrant.If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine,arrest the person.If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags orinspection sticker ... that's the offense they should beguilty of and receive a ticket.I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not commonsense. But the ability of the police to arrestyou for something else in your record that had nothingto do with the reason for stopping the person in thefirst place, will result in theseshootings and killings to continue.Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony.Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony.Failure to pay child support is not a deathpenalty crime.If someone is guilty of the above, they should belocated and arrested on the merit of the outstandingwarrant, not for a traffic violation that it seemstoo often escalates into a shooting.I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into ascrewed-up screaming liberal like some. Justtrying to think of ways to keep people alive.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com EDUCATION for everyone: Teach folks to respect police. Teach folks to respect each other. Teach them to respect the law. Teach them to not resist arrest. Teach them not to run. Teach them how not to be shot during a police stop. Teach them "If you do the crime prepare to do the time" Help the police help you stay alive and safe. Just a thought from sunny,warm Florida :-) -- Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet? ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html Awful lot of "them" in there. Why did you change from "folks" to "them"? |
A proposal
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them, and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence, you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop? When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get behind your proposal that puts them at real risk. I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will go on about their day. However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security. If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn bad. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for something else. My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done? We have all been stopped for minor offense, like no brake lights, broken tail light, failure to,signal, etc. They always run the license plate first, to see if the car is known from a crime to be stolen or dangerous. Same with the drivers license. Is it legal, suspended, etc. So, you are just going to have a cop walk to a car without knowing anything about what they are stopping? Maybe, if black lives mattered, the black community would make,sure the kids finished school, and did not shoot each other with so much frequency. How can Chuvin bee guilty of murder when trying to restrain a violent person, but the Federal Government says there is no evidence of a crime if a Federal officer shoots a unarmed fat white lady? |
A proposal
True North Wrote in message:r
On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 13:16:48 UTC-3, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:r On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now.That was not the point of my "proposal".I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot becausethey are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to boltbecause the police then attempt to arrest for an outstandingwarrant.If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine,arrest the person.If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags orinspection sticker ... that's the offense they should beguilty of and receive a ticket.I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not commonsense. But the ability of the police to arrestyou for something else in your record that had nothingto do with the reason for stopping the person in thefirst place, will result in theseshootings and killings to continue.Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony.Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony.Failure to pay child support is not a deathpenalty crime.If someone is guilty of the above, they should belocated and arrested on the merit of the outstandingwarrant, not for a traffic violation that it seemstoo often escalates into a shooting.I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into ascrewed-up screaming liberal like some. Justtrying to think of ways to keep people alive.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com EDUCATION for everyone: Teach folks to respect police. Teach folks to respect each other. Teach them to respect the law. Teach them to not resist arrest. Teach them not to run. Teach them how not to be shot during a police stop. Teach them "If you do the crime prepare to do the time" Help the police help you stay alive and safe. Just a thought from sunny,warm Florida :-) -- Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet? ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...ndex.htmlAwful lot of "them" in there.Why did you change from "folks" to "them"? tO ConFuse yOu. -- Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet? ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html |
A proposal
On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 16:08:43 UTC-3, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them, and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence, you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop? When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get behind your proposal that puts them at real risk. I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will go on about their day. However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security. If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn bad. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for something else. My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done? We have all been stopped for minor offense, like no brake lights, broken tail light, failure to,signal, etc. They always run the license plate first, to see if the car is known from a crime to be stolen or dangerous. Same with the drivers license. Is it legal, suspended, etc. So, you are just going to have a cop walk to a car without knowing anything about what they are stopping? Maybe, if black lives mattered, the black community would make,sure the kids finished school, and did not shoot each other with so much frequency. How can Chuvin bee guilty of murder when trying to restrain a violent person, but the Federal Government says there is no evidence of a crime if a Federal officer shoots a unarmed fat white lady? No...we haven't. I can't remember the last time I was stopped by a cop, maybe in the early 80s. I keep everything working on my Highlander, obey all traffic signals etc and rarely exceed the posted speed limit. |
A proposal
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 16:48:08 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:27:30 PM UTC-4, John H wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. So it's not legal to make sure a person that is breaking the law is not under an active warrant for breaking another law/? WTF? "It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another." Again, WTF? The cause for arrest is the INITIAL warrant for the first infraction, not the stop. The stop just brought the individual to the attention of law enforcement. They had been evading law enforcement until that point. I'm sure you realize I didn't say those things! I agree with you! -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
A proposal
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:37:28 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense. But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some. Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. If an individual is a criminal and gets caught because of a traffic violation, so be it. I'd rather that than have him get caught running out of a 7/11 after shooting the cashier. -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
A proposal
On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 4:44:22 PM UTC-4, John H wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 16:48:08 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:27:30 PM UTC-4, John H wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. So it's not legal to make sure a person that is breaking the law is not under an active warrant for breaking another law/? WTF? "It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another." Again, WTF? The cause for arrest is the INITIAL warrant for the first infraction, not the stop. The stop just brought the individual to the attention of law enforcement. They had been evading law enforcement until that point. I'm sure you realize I didn't say those things! I agree with you! Yup, sorry. You got caught in the middle. |
A proposal
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A proposal
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:17:51 -0700 (PDT), True North
wrote: On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 16:08:43 UTC-3, Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them, and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence, you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop? When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get behind your proposal that puts them at real risk. I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will go on about their day. However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security. If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn bad. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for something else. My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done? We have all been stopped for minor offense, like no brake lights, broken tail light, failure to,signal, etc. They always run the license plate first, to see if the car is known from a crime to be stolen or dangerous. Same with the drivers license. Is it legal, suspended, etc. So, you are just going to have a cop walk to a car without knowing anything about what they are stopping? Maybe, if black lives mattered, the black community would make,sure the kids finished school, and did not shoot each other with so much frequency. How can Chuvin bee guilty of murder when trying to restrain a violent person, but the Federal Government says there is no evidence of a crime if a Federal officer shoots a unarmed fat white lady? No...we haven't. I can't remember the last time I was stopped by a cop, maybe in the early 80s. I keep everything working on my Highlander, obey all traffic signals etc and rarely exceed the posted speed limit. On the one hand you say, "No...we haven't." Then you contradict yourself with your stop by a cop 'in the early 80's'. Just how f'ing stupid are you? -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
A proposal
True North wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 16:08:43 UTC-3, Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them, and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence, you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop? When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get behind your proposal that puts them at real risk. I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will go on about their day. However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security. If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn bad. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for something else. My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done? We have all been stopped for minor offense, like no brake lights, broken tail light, failure to,signal, etc. They always run the license plate first, to see if the car is known from a crime to be stolen or dangerous. Same with the drivers license. Is it legal, suspended, etc. So, you are just going to have a cop walk to a car without knowing anything about what they are stopping? Maybe, if black lives mattered, the black community would make,sure the kids finished school, and did not shoot each other with so much frequency. How can Chuvin bee guilty of murder when trying to restrain a violent person, but the Federal Government says there is no evidence of a crime if a Federal officer shoots a unarmed fat white lady? No...we haven't. I can't remember the last time I was stopped by a cop, maybe in the early 80s. I keep everything working on my Highlander, obey all traffic signals etc and rarely exceed the posted speed limit. Maybe the cops already know you from cleaning their **** up. |
A proposal
On 4/21/2021 4:55 PM, John wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:41:10 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 4:23 PM, wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. Cops would be quick to point out, traffic stops solve more felonies and result in more felony arrests than detective work. Without traffic stops about half of the drug war wouldn't be able to be prosecuted. Cops call a traffic stop a "tool", AKA a way to get around your rights. (searches, interrogations without Miranda etc) They are not going to give that up. Look at it another way. If they catch a wanted serial killer on a traffic stop, do you want him driving away with a speeding ticket and a smile on his face? Every case of a serial killer on the loose that I've read about results in a dedicated and massive manhunt for the person. Cops don't start stopping every car on the road searching for him. That doesn't mean the killer couldn't be caught while stopped for an infraction. Suppose a felony warrant is discovered at a sobriety checkpoint? John, I am not debating the logic or reasoning of running checks if stopped for a traffic violation. I am questioning using them as a racially profiling tool due to the number of unnecessary shootings and deaths. I've heard all the arguments .... "Don't resist and you won't get shot" ... and I fundamentally agree with them. But I am not black or a minority. (as far as I know) :-) -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
A proposal
On 4/21/2021 11:09 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news.Â* The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID.Â* That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person.Â* If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever.Â* It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense.Â* But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some.Â* Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring, and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently, and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the public or the police is obvious and imminent. George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely. Period. The jury's verdict was completely justified. My "proposal" obviously makes little sense if one stays in the thinking that they have been accustom to. I was simply trying to think outside the box a little to address racial profiling that I am 100 percent convinced occurs on a regular basis. Did you hear or read about the Maryland state cop that shot and killed a teenage white female a couple of weeks ago? Very little to no media coverage about it. Why? -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
A proposal
On 4/21/2021 4:49 PM, John wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:37:28 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense. But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some. Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. If an individual is a criminal and gets caught because of a traffic violation, so be it. I'd rather that than have him get caught running out of a 7/11 after shooting the cashier. Again, that is not what I am discussing. Forget it. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
A proposal
On 4/21/21 6:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/21/2021 11:09 AM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news.Â* The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID.Â* That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person.Â* If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever.Â* It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense.Â* But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some.Â* Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring, and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently, and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the public or the police is obvious and imminent. George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely. Period. The jury's verdict was completely justified. My "proposal" obviously makes little sense if one stays in the thinking that they have been accustom to.Â* I was simply trying to think outside the box a little to address racial profiling that I am 100 percent convinced occurs on a regular basis. Did you hear or read about the Maryland state cop that shot and killed a teenage white female a couple of weeks ago? Very little to no media coverage about it.Â* Why? No, but I did read of a state trooper here who shot a kit who pointed an "airsoft" pistol at him. -- * Lock up Trump and his family of grifters. * |
A proposal
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 18:33:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 4/21/2021 4:49 PM, John wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:37:28 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense. But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some. Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. If an individual is a criminal and gets caught because of a traffic violation, so be it. I'd rather that than have him get caught running out of a 7/11 after shooting the cashier. Again, that is not what I am discussing. Forget it. OK. -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
A proposal
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 18:24:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 4/21/2021 4:55 PM, John wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:41:10 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 4:23 PM, wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. Cops would be quick to point out, traffic stops solve more felonies and result in more felony arrests than detective work. Without traffic stops about half of the drug war wouldn't be able to be prosecuted. Cops call a traffic stop a "tool", AKA a way to get around your rights. (searches, interrogations without Miranda etc) They are not going to give that up. Look at it another way. If they catch a wanted serial killer on a traffic stop, do you want him driving away with a speeding ticket and a smile on his face? Every case of a serial killer on the loose that I've read about results in a dedicated and massive manhunt for the person. Cops don't start stopping every car on the road searching for him. That doesn't mean the killer couldn't be caught while stopped for an infraction. Suppose a felony warrant is discovered at a sobriety checkpoint? John, I am not debating the logic or reasoning of running checks if stopped for a traffic violation. I am questioning using them as a racially profiling tool due to the number of unnecessary shootings and deaths. I've heard all the arguments .... "Don't resist and you won't get shot" ... and I fundamentally agree with them. But I am not black or a minority. (as far as I know) :-) I agree that stops should not be made based on race, and I believe many are. I also believe motorcyclists shouldn't be targeted for sobriety checks, but I believe many are. -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
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