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A proposal
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 18:52:54 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote: On 4/21/21 6:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/21/2021 11:09 AM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news.* The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID.* That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person.* If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever.* It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense.* But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some.* Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring, and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently, and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the public or the police is obvious and imminent. George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely. Period. The jury's verdict was completely justified. My "proposal" obviously makes little sense if one stays in the thinking that they have been accustom to.* I was simply trying to think outside the box a little to address racial profiling that I am 100 percent convinced occurs on a regular basis. Did you hear or read about the Maryland state cop that shot and killed a teenage white female a couple of weeks ago? Very little to no media coverage about it.* Why? No, but I did read of a state trooper here who shot a kit who pointed an "airsoft" pistol at him. If one of these were pointed at me, I'd shoot also. https://eu.novritsch.com/product/nov...irsoft-pistol/ -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
A proposal
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:37:28 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense. But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some. Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. That would be great if that person never committed another crime but imagine the outrage if it was discovered that an "active shooter" was stopped for that tail light between shootings in multiple locations and the cop had to ignore the BOLO. I know that is an extreme example but we have to deal with extremes if you want to contend any significant number of warrant arrests result in the perp being shot by the police. The reality is thousands of people get arrested every day for unrelated offenses to the initial traffic stop, without incident. For the most part that is a good thing. |
A proposal
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news.Â* The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID.Â* That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person.Â* If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever.Â* It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense.Â* But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some.Â* Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Most people know they have a warrant and will expect that to come up if they are pulled over for a traffic infraction.Â* That's why they run.Â* Gotta watch COPS! |
A proposal
True North wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 13:16:48 UTC-3, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:r On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now.That was not the point of my "proposal".I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot becausethey are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to boltbecause the police then attempt to arrest for an outstandingwarrant.If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine,arrest the person.If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags orinspection sticker ... that's the offense they should beguilty of and receive a ticket.I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not commonsense. But the ability of the police to arrestyou for something else in your record that had nothingto do with the reason for stopping the person in thefirst place, will result in theseshootings and killings to continue.Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony.Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony.Failure to pay child support is not a deathpenalty crime.If someone is guilty of the above, they should belocated and arrested on the merit of the outstandingwarrant, not for a traffic violation that it seemstoo often escalates into a shooting.I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into ascrewed-up screaming liberal like some. Justtrying to think of ways to keep people alive.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com EDUCATION for everyone: Teach folks to respect police. Teach folks to respect each other. Teach them to respect the law. Teach them to not resist arrest. Teach them not to run. Teach them how not to be shot during a police stop. Teach them "If you do the crime prepare to do the time" Help the police help you stay alive and safe. Just a thought from sunny,warm Florida :-) -- Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet? ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html Awful lot of "them" in there. Why did you change from "folks" to "them"? What's the difference?Â* You must be a racist to come to that conclusion. |
A proposal
True North wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 16:08:43 UTC-3, Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them, and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence, you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop? When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get behind your proposal that puts them at real risk. I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will go on about their day. However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security. If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn bad. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for something else. My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done? We have all been stopped for minor offense, like no brake lights, broken tail light, failure to,signal, etc. They always run the license plate first, to see if the car is known from a crime to be stolen or dangerous. Same with the drivers license. Is it legal, suspended, etc. So, you are just going to have a cop walk to a car without knowing anything about what they are stopping? Maybe, if black lives mattered, the black community would make,sure the kids finished school, and did not shoot each other with so much frequency. How can Chuvin bee guilty of murder when trying to restrain a violent person, but the Federal Government says there is no evidence of a crime if a Federal officer shoots a unarmed fat white lady? No...we haven't. I can't remember the last time I was stopped by a cop, maybe in the early 80s. I keep everything working on my Highlander, obey all traffic signals etc and rarely exceed the posted speed limit. So, yes, you have.Â* You are too dumb to realize what you typed - simpleton. |
A proposal
John wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:17:51 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote: On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 16:08:43 UTC-3, Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them, and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence, you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop? When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get behind your proposal that puts them at real risk. I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will go on about their day. However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security. If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn bad. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for something else. My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done? We have all been stopped for minor offense, like no brake lights, broken tail light, failure to,signal, etc. They always run the license plate first, to see if the car is known from a crime to be stolen or dangerous. Same with the drivers license. Is it legal, suspended, etc. So, you are just going to have a cop walk to a car without knowing anything about what they are stopping? Maybe, if black lives mattered, the black community would make,sure the kids finished school, and did not shoot each other with so much frequency. How can Chuvin bee guilty of murder when trying to restrain a violent person, but the Federal Government says there is no evidence of a crime if a Federal officer shoots a unarmed fat white lady? No...we haven't. I can't remember the last time I was stopped by a cop, maybe in the early 80s. I keep everything working on my Highlander, obey all traffic signals etc and rarely exceed the posted speed limit. On the one hand you say, "No...we haven't." Then you contradict yourself with your stop by a cop 'in the early 80's'. Just how f'ing stupid are you? -- Freedom Isn't Free! Very |
A proposal
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 11:09:22 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote: On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news.Â* The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID.Â* That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person.Â* If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever.Â* It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense.Â* But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some.Â* Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring, and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently, and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the public or the police is obvious and imminent. George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely. Period. George Floyd could have said he gives up and he will get in the car at any time. It would have ended then. He chose to continue to resist and refused to get in the car. |
A proposal
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 12:26:56 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:
Keyser Söze Wrote in message:r On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense. But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some. Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring, and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently, and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the public or the police is obvious and imminent.George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely. Period.-- * Lock up Trump and his family of grifters. * Maybe Bidens investigation will determine why, once Floyd was subdued, action wasn't taken to move him to a secure location like the back seat of a police car. Floyd fought them when they tried to get him in the car, that was the problem. I do fault the police somewhat. They should have called for a wagon and the 4 of them get him by hands and feet and throw his ass in the wagon. That was the way the DC police used to deal with things like this. The 9 minutes was the error. They should not have screwed with this thug that long. |
A proposal
On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 20:53:04 UTC-3, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 11:09:22 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense. But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some. Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring, and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently, and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the public or the police is obvious and imminent. George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely. Period. George Floyd could have said he gives up and he will get in the car at any time. It would have ended then. He chose to continue to resist and refused to get in the car. Appears the jury didn't agree with you. |
A proposal
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:08:42 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them, and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence, you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop? When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get behind your proposal that puts them at real risk. I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will go on about their day. However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security. If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn bad. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for something else. My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done? We have all been stopped for minor offense, like no brake lights, broken tail light, failure to,signal, etc. They always run the license plate first, to see if the car is known from a crime to be stolen or dangerous. Same with the drivers license. Is it legal, suspended, etc. So, you are just going to have a cop walk to a car without knowing anything about what they are stopping? Maybe, if black lives mattered, the black community would make,sure the kids finished school, and did not shoot each other with so much frequency. How can Chuvin bee guilty of murder when trying to restrain a violent person, but the Federal Government says there is no evidence of a crime if a Federal officer shoots a unarmed fat white lady? I was stopped for speding a couple weeks ago and the cop knew all about me before he got out of his car. I handed him my license and started to get my insurance card and registration when he just said "Are you still with USAA Mr Fretwell"? Then he asked me if I had a firearm. My CCW popped on his computer too. I was polite, called him sir, in spite of being twice his age and got away with a warning for 23 over ;-) I am sure if I tried, I could have been shot. |
A proposal
True North wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 20:53:04 UTC-3, wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 11:09:22 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense. But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some. Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring, and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently, and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the public or the police is obvious and imminent. George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely. Period. George Floyd could have said he gives up and he will get in the car at any time. It would have ended then. He chose to continue to resist and refused to get in the car. Appears the jury didn't agree with you. The jury was not considering his refusal to get in the car. They were judging if the cop overreacted to the refusal. He did. The other cops standing there should also be charged with something. None moved to stop the kneeling. Same as all the cops standing around when Rodney King was being kicked by the cops while on the ground, should have been fired and charged with accessory to assault. |
A proposal
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Just have the cop yell, "Taser, taser, taser," then shoot him with a gun. Seems logical. -- Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet? ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html |
A proposal
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:07:45 -0400, John wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 18:52:54 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 6:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/21/2021 11:09 AM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news.Â* The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID.Â* That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person.Â* If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever.Â* It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense.Â* But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some.Â* Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring, and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently, and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the public or the police is obvious and imminent. George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely. Period. The jury's verdict was completely justified. My "proposal" obviously makes little sense if one stays in the thinking that they have been accustom to.Â* I was simply trying to think outside the box a little to address racial profiling that I am 100 percent convinced occurs on a regular basis. Did you hear or read about the Maryland state cop that shot and killed a teenage white female a couple of weeks ago? Very little to no media coverage about it.Â* Why? No, but I did read of a state trooper here who shot a kit who pointed an "airsoft" pistol at him. If one of these were pointed at me, I'd shoot also. https://eu.novritsch.com/product/nov...irsoft-pistol/ I found myself looking at airsoft guns the other day and if you are willing to spend over $100 for a CO2 version, they get damned realistic, right down to the operating controls. People use them to drill for their real firearm. OTOH I ended up with a couple of cheap plastic ones in an auction lot and they look pretty real too if you don't get close. |
A proposal
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:58:51 -0700 (PDT), True North
wrote: On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 20:53:04 UTC-3, wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 11:09:22 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense. But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some. Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring, and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently, and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the public or the police is obvious and imminent. George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely. Period. George Floyd could have said he gives up and he will get in the car at any time. It would have ended then. He chose to continue to resist and refused to get in the car. Appears the jury didn't agree with you. The question of whether Floyd was still resisting getting in the car never came up. It really didn't matter tho because there was so much pressure on that jury to convict, the outcome was predetermined. That is why I expect the appeal to succeed. That will be a year or two away and everyone will have forgotten about the late lamented Mr Floyd and nobody will notice what happens to Chauvin. |
A proposal
On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 02:29:13 -0400, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:07:45 -0400, John wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 18:52:54 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 6:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/21/2021 11:09 AM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news.* The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID.* That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person.* If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever.* It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense.* But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some.* Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring, and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently, and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the public or the police is obvious and imminent. George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely. Period. The jury's verdict was completely justified. My "proposal" obviously makes little sense if one stays in the thinking that they have been accustom to.* I was simply trying to think outside the box a little to address racial profiling that I am 100 percent convinced occurs on a regular basis. Did you hear or read about the Maryland state cop that shot and killed a teenage white female a couple of weeks ago? Very little to no media coverage about it.* Why? No, but I did read of a state trooper here who shot a kit who pointed an "airsoft" pistol at him. If one of these were pointed at me, I'd shoot also. https://eu.novritsch.com/product/nov...irsoft-pistol/ I found myself looking at airsoft guns the other day and if you are willing to spend over $100 for a CO2 version, they get damned realistic, right down to the operating controls. People use them to drill for their real firearm. OTOH I ended up with a couple of cheap plastic ones in an auction lot and they look pretty real too if you don't get close. I suppose Harry's state trooper was supposed to wait until the kid fired the weapon before taking any action. -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
A proposal
On 4/22/21 2:29 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:07:45 -0400, John wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 18:52:54 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 6:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/21/2021 11:09 AM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news.Â* The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID.Â* That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person.Â* If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever.Â* It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense.Â* But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some.Â* Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring, and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently, and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the public or the police is obvious and imminent. George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely. Period. The jury's verdict was completely justified. My "proposal" obviously makes little sense if one stays in the thinking that they have been accustom to.Â* I was simply trying to think outside the box a little to address racial profiling that I am 100 percent convinced occurs on a regular basis. Did you hear or read about the Maryland state cop that shot and killed a teenage white female a couple of weeks ago? Very little to no media coverage about it.Â* Why? No, but I did read of a state trooper here who shot a kit who pointed an "airsoft" pistol at him. If one of these were pointed at me, I'd shoot also. https://eu.novritsch.com/product/nov...irsoft-pistol/ I found myself looking at airsoft guns the other day and if you are willing to spend over $100 for a CO2 version, they get damned realistic, right down to the operating controls. People use them to drill for their real firearm. OTOH I ended up with a couple of cheap plastic ones in an auction lot and they look pretty real too if you don't get close. If you point a gun at a cop, even a toy gun that looks realistic, you deserve what you get. I've only seen a couple of "Airsoft" pistols, and they look like the real deal. If your wallet, comb, cellphone, et cetera, in your hand, however, you do not deserve to be shot by a cop. Part of the job of a cop is to be damned sure of what you are doing in regard to using deadly force. It is part of the risk of the job. -- * Lock up Trump and his family of grifters. * |
A proposal
|
A proposal
On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 8:38:33 AM UTC-4, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 4/22/21 2:33 AM, wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:58:51 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote: On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 20:53:04 UTC-3, wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 11:09:22 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense. But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some. Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring, and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently, and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the public or the police is obvious and imminent. George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely. Period. George Floyd could have said he gives up and he will get in the car at any time. It would have ended then. He chose to continue to resist and refused to get in the car. Appears the jury didn't agree with you. The question of whether Floyd was still resisting getting in the car never came up. It really didn't matter tho because there was so much pressure on that jury to convict, the outcome was predetermined. That is why I expect the appeal to succeed. That will be a year or two away and everyone will have forgotten about the late lamented Mr Floyd and nobody will notice what happens to Chauvin. Apparently you have not watched the nine minute video of Chauvin crushing the life out of Floyd, who was handcuffed on the pavement. We and the jury didn't get to see the extended period of time Floyd violently resisted arrest (fighting off 2 cops) or details about how hopped up on drugs he was. The only independent person who actually medically examined his body said he did not die of asphyxiation. The trial was rigged. Chauvin will end up walking on appeal with time served. Maxine helped him. |
A proposal
Wrote in message:r
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:08:42 -0000 (UTC), wrote:Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them, and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence, you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop? When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get behind your proposal that puts them at real risk. I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will go on about their day. However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security. If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn bad. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for something else. My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done? We have all been stopped for minor offense, like no brake lights, brokentail light, failure to,signal, etc. They always run the license platefirst, to see if the car is known from a crime to be stolen or dangerous. Same with the drivers license. Is it legal, suspended, etc. So, you arejust going to have a cop walk to a car without knowing anything about whatthey are stopping? Maybe, if black lives mattered, the black communitywould make,sure the kids finished school, and did not shoot each other withso much frequency. How can Chuvin bee guilty of murder when trying torestrain a violent person, but the Federal Government says there is noevidence of a crime if a Federal officer shoots a unarmed fat white lady?I was stopped for speding a couple weeks ago and the cop knew allabout me before he got out of his car. I handed him my license and started to get my insurance card andregistration when he just said "Are you still with USAA Mr Fretwell"?Then he asked me if I had a firearm. My CCW popped on his computertoo.I was polite, called him sir, in spite of being twice his age and gotaway with a warning for 23 over ;-)I am sure if I tried, I could have been shot. Lucky You; or should I say smart you.:-) -- Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet? ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html |
A proposal
Wrote in message:r
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 12:26:56 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:Keyser Söze Wrote in message:r On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race relatedviolence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence thatresult in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If awarrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Notblaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person,be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used,specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind ofcompromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? Ican see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minorinfraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive aticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense. But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a deathsentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not"anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some. Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring, and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they operate in a civilized way that treats everyoneencountered decently, and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the public or the police is obvious and imminent.George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely. Period.-- * Lock up Trump and his family ofgrifters. *Maybe Bidens investigation will determine why, once Floyd was subdued, action wasn't taken to move him to a secure location like the back seat of a police car. Floyd fought them when they tried to get him in the car, that was theproblem. I do fault the police somewhat. They should have called for a wagonand the 4 of them get him by hands and feet and throw his ass in thewagon. That was the way the DC police used to deal with things likethis. The 9 minutes was the error. They should not have screwed with thisthug that long. Agreed. There is more justice to be metered out in this case. Perhaps beyond the obvious. -- Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet? ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html |
A proposal
Keyser Söze Wrote in message:r
On 4/22/21 2:29 AM, wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:07:45 -0400, John wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 18:52:54 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 6:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/21/2021 11:09 AM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense. But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some. Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring, and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently, and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the public or the police is obvious and imminent. George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely. Period. The jury's verdict was completely justified. My "proposal" obviously makes little sense if one stays in the thinking that they have been accustom to. I was simply trying to think outside the box a little to address racial profiling that I am 100 percent convinced occurs on a regular basis. Did you hear or read about the Maryland state cop that shot and killed a teenage white female a couple of weeks ago? Very little to no media coverage about it. Why? No, but I did read of a state trooper here who shot a kit who pointed an "airsoft" pistol at him. If one of these were pointed at me, I'd shoot also. https://eu.novritsch.com/product/novritsch-ssp1-airsoft-pistol/ I found myself looking at airsoft guns the other day and if you are willing to spend over $100 for a CO2 version, they get damned realistic, right down to the operating controls. People use them to drill for their real firearm. OTOH I ended up with a couple of cheap plastic ones in an auction lot and they look pretty real too if you don't get close. If you point a gun at a cop, even a toy gun that looks realistic, you deserve what you get. I've only seen a couple of "Airsoft" pistols, and they look like the real deal. If your wallet, comb, cellphone, et cetera, in your hand, however, you do not deserve to be shot by a cop. Part of the job of a cop is to be damned sure of what you are doing in regard to using deadly force. It is part of the risk of the job.-- * Lock up Trump and his family of grifters. * Why do you find it so difficult to do your job of paying your taxes. -- Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet? ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html |
A proposal
wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:07:45 -0400, John wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 18:52:54 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 6:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/21/2021 11:09 AM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news.Â* The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID.Â* That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person.Â* If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever.Â* It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense.Â* But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some.Â* Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring, and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently, and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the public or the police is obvious and imminent. George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely. Period. The jury's verdict was completely justified. My "proposal" obviously makes little sense if one stays in the thinking that they have been accustom to.Â* I was simply trying to think outside the box a little to address racial profiling that I am 100 percent convinced occurs on a regular basis. Did you hear or read about the Maryland state cop that shot and killed a teenage white female a couple of weeks ago? Very little to no media coverage about it.Â* Why? No, but I did read of a state trooper here who shot a kit who pointed an "airsoft" pistol at him. If one of these were pointed at me, I'd shoot also. https://eu.novritsch.com/product/nov...irsoft-pistol/ I found myself looking at airsoft guns the other day and if you are willing to spend over $100 for a CO2 version, they get damned realistic, right down to the operating controls. People use them to drill for their real firearm. OTOH I ended up with a couple of cheap plastic ones in an auction lot and they look pretty real too if you don't get close. Couple years ago, a kid in Santa Rosa was shot and killed by a cop. He pointed an air soft AR look alike at the cop. Had taken a sharpie and blacked out the required orange tip of the barrel. Don’t blame a cop in that situation. |
A proposal
On 4/22/21 12:27 PM, Bill wrote:
wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:07:45 -0400, John wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 18:52:54 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 6:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/21/2021 11:09 AM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news.Â* The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID.Â* That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person.Â* If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever.Â* It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense.Â* But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some.Â* Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring, and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently, and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the public or the police is obvious and imminent. George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely. Period. The jury's verdict was completely justified. My "proposal" obviously makes little sense if one stays in the thinking that they have been accustom to.Â* I was simply trying to think outside the box a little to address racial profiling that I am 100 percent convinced occurs on a regular basis. Did you hear or read about the Maryland state cop that shot and killed a teenage white female a couple of weeks ago? Very little to no media coverage about it.Â* Why? No, but I did read of a state trooper here who shot a kit who pointed an "airsoft" pistol at him. If one of these were pointed at me, I'd shoot also. https://eu.novritsch.com/product/nov...irsoft-pistol/ I found myself looking at airsoft guns the other day and if you are willing to spend over $100 for a CO2 version, they get damned realistic, right down to the operating controls. People use them to drill for their real firearm. OTOH I ended up with a couple of cheap plastic ones in an auction lot and they look pretty real too if you don't get close. Couple years ago, a kid in Santa Rosa was shot and killed by a cop. He pointed an air soft AR look alike at the cop. Had taken a sharpie and blacked out the required orange tip of the barrel. Don’t blame a cop in that situation. Agreed. -- * Lock up Trump and his family of grifters. * |
A proposal
Alex Wrote in message:r
True North wrote: On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 13:16:48 UTC-3, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:r On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now.That was not the point of my "proposal".I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot becausethey are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to boltbecause the police then attempt to arrest for an outstandingwarrant.If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine,arrest the person.If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags orinspection sticker ... that's the offense they should beguilty of and receive a ticket.I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not commonsense. But the ability of the police to arrestyou for something else in your record that had nothingto do with the reason for stopping the person in thefirst place, will result in theseshootings and killings to continue.Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony.Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony.Failure to pay child support is not a deathpenalty crime.If someone is guilty of the above, they should belocated and arrested on the merit of the outstandingwarrant, not for a traffic violation that it seemstoo often escalates into a shooting.I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into ascrewed-up screaming liberal like some. Justtrying to think of ways to keep people alive.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com EDUCATION for everyone: Teach folks to respect police. Teach folks to respect each other. Teach them to respect the law. Teach them to not resist arrest. Teach them not to run. Teach them how not to be shot during a police stop. Teach them "If you do the crime prepare to do the time" Help the police help you stay alive and safe. Just a thought from sunny,warm Florida :-) -- Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet? ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html Awful lot of "them" in there. Why did you change from "folks" to "them"?What's the difference? You must be a racist to come to that conclusion. Donnie is as dumb as a box of rocks. He may be racist too. Don't know, dont care. -- Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet? ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html |
A proposal
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:r
On 4/21/2021 4:55 PM, John wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:41:10 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 4:23 PM, wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. Cops would be quick to point out, traffic stops solve more felonies and result in more felony arrests than detective work. Without traffic stops about half of the drug war wouldn't be able to be prosecuted. Cops call a traffic stop a "tool", AKA a way to get around your rights. (searches, interrogations without Miranda etc) They are not going to give that up. Look at it another way. If they catch a wanted serial killer on a traffic stop, do you want him driving away with a speeding ticket and a smile on his face? Every case of a serial killer on the loose that I've read about results in a dedicated and massive manhunt for the person. Cops don't start stopping every car on the road searching for him. That doesn't mean the killer couldn't be caught while stopped for an infraction. Suppose a felony warrant is discovered at a sobriety checkpoint?John, I am not debating the logic or reasoning of running checks if stopped for a traffic violation.I am questioning using them as a racially profiling tool due to thenumber of unnecessary shootings and deaths. I've heard all thearguments .... "Don't resist and you won't get shot" ... and Ifundamentally agree with them.But I am not black or a minority. (as far as I know) :-)-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com You are a white American American. You are a minority. -- Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet? ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html |
A proposal
On Thursday, 22 April 2021 at 14:42:46 UTC-3, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:r On 4/21/2021 4:55 PM, John wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:41:10 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 4:23 PM, wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue.. Cops would be quick to point out, traffic stops solve more felonies and result in more felony arrests than detective work. Without traffic stops about half of the drug war wouldn't be able to be prosecuted. Cops call a traffic stop a "tool", AKA a way to get around your rights. (searches, interrogations without Miranda etc) They are not going to give that up. Look at it another way. If they catch a wanted serial killer on a traffic stop, do you want him driving away with a speeding ticket and a smile on his face? Every case of a serial killer on the loose that I've read about results in a dedicated and massive manhunt for the person. Cops don't start stopping every car on the road searching for him. That doesn't mean the killer couldn't be caught while stopped for an infraction. Suppose a felony warrant is discovered at a sobriety checkpoint?John, I am not debating the logic or reasoning of running checks if stopped for a traffic violation.I am questioning using them as a racially profiling tool due to thenumber of unnecessary shootings and deaths. I've heard all thearguments .... "Don't resist and you won't get shot" ... and Ifundamentally agree with them.But I am not black or a minority. (as far as I know) :-)-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg..com You are a white American American. You are a minority. -- Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet? ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html What's "a white American American" More of your racist leanings, Justine? |
A proposal
|
A proposal
On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 16:27:13 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote: wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:07:45 -0400, John wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 18:52:54 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 6:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/21/2021 11:09 AM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news.Â* The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID.Â* That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person.Â* If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever.Â* It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense.Â* But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some.Â* Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring, and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently, and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the public or the police is obvious and imminent. George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely. Period. The jury's verdict was completely justified. My "proposal" obviously makes little sense if one stays in the thinking that they have been accustom to.Â* I was simply trying to think outside the box a little to address racial profiling that I am 100 percent convinced occurs on a regular basis. Did you hear or read about the Maryland state cop that shot and killed a teenage white female a couple of weeks ago? Very little to no media coverage about it.Â* Why? No, but I did read of a state trooper here who shot a kit who pointed an "airsoft" pistol at him. If one of these were pointed at me, I'd shoot also. https://eu.novritsch.com/product/nov...irsoft-pistol/ I found myself looking at airsoft guns the other day and if you are willing to spend over $100 for a CO2 version, they get damned realistic, right down to the operating controls. People use them to drill for their real firearm. OTOH I ended up with a couple of cheap plastic ones in an auction lot and they look pretty real too if you don't get close. Couple years ago, a kid in Santa Rosa was shot and killed by a cop. He pointed an air soft AR look alike at the cop. Had taken a sharpie and blacked out the required orange tip of the barrel. Don’t blame a cop in that situation. I wouldn't even expect the cop to see the orange tip if it was bad light and things were happening fast. IMHO these things should be all orange. |
A proposal
On 4/21/2021 7:50 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:41:10 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 4:23 PM, wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. Cops would be quick to point out, traffic stops solve more felonies and result in more felony arrests than detective work. Without traffic stops about half of the drug war wouldn't be able to be prosecuted. Cops call a traffic stop a "tool", AKA a way to get around your rights. (searches, interrogations without Miranda etc) They are not going to give that up. Look at it another way. If they catch a wanted serial killer on a traffic stop, do you want him driving away with a speeding ticket and a smile on his face? Every case of a serial killer on the loose that I've read about results in a dedicated and massive manhunt for the person. Cops don't start stopping every car on the road searching for him. You have never heard about a roadblock perimeter around a crime scene? Hell they set up roadblocks to look for drunk drivers. Everyone gets stopped and interrogated. There is no presumption of innocence there. They will even stop vehicles towing boats coming up out of the keys during mini season looking for illegal lobsters. You give up many rights as soon as you get in your car and the courts uphold it. I think a lot of it is wrong but I have to live in the world we have, not the one Jefferson dreamed of. Difference is in your statement: "You have never heard about a roadblock perimeter around a crime scene? Hell they set up roadblocks to look for drunk drivers. Everyone gets stopped and interrogated. There is no presumption of innocence there. "Everyone" isn't a search via racial profiling. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
A proposal
On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 5:20:13 PM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/21/2021 7:50 PM, wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:41:10 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 4:23 PM, wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. Cops would be quick to point out, traffic stops solve more felonies and result in more felony arrests than detective work. Without traffic stops about half of the drug war wouldn't be able to be prosecuted. Cops call a traffic stop a "tool", AKA a way to get around your rights. (searches, interrogations without Miranda etc) They are not going to give that up. Look at it another way. If they catch a wanted serial killer on a traffic stop, do you want him driving away with a speeding ticket and a smile on his face? Every case of a serial killer on the loose that I've read about results in a dedicated and massive manhunt for the person. Cops don't start stopping every car on the road searching for him. You have never heard about a roadblock perimeter around a crime scene? Hell they set up roadblocks to look for drunk drivers. Everyone gets stopped and interrogated. There is no presumption of innocence there. They will even stop vehicles towing boats coming up out of the keys during mini season looking for illegal lobsters. You give up many rights as soon as you get in your car and the courts uphold it. I think a lot of it is wrong but I have to live in the world we have, not the one Jefferson dreamed of. Difference is in your statement: "You have never heard about a roadblock perimeter around a crime scene? Hell they set up roadblocks to look for drunk drivers. Everyone gets stopped and interrogated. There is no presumption of innocence there. "Everyone" isn't a search via racial profiling. So you want a "dedicated and massive manhunt" for every warrant? Prepare to pay double your taxes and hire twice as many police. Oh wait, we're getting rid of police, remember? The cheapest, most effective tool is to check for warrants at a traffic stop. If the perp is guilty, they often fight back or run. Traffic stops aren't a racial profiled stop. The vast majority of the time they are justified. In the few times I've been stopped i simply complied, was either issued a ticket or a warning, and was sent on my way. No chase, no shots fired, no drama. Oh, and no warrant. :) If everyone acted that way there would be no issue. But there is an element of society that will not act like they have some "home schooling" (because they don't), and they act out when it happens to them. Bad things happen to bad people. I'm not sure why you want that element on the street, giving them a free ride, but please keep it up there in the NE. |
A proposal
On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 17:20:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 4/21/2021 7:50 PM, wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:41:10 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 4:23 PM, wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. Cops would be quick to point out, traffic stops solve more felonies and result in more felony arrests than detective work. Without traffic stops about half of the drug war wouldn't be able to be prosecuted. Cops call a traffic stop a "tool", AKA a way to get around your rights. (searches, interrogations without Miranda etc) They are not going to give that up. Look at it another way. If they catch a wanted serial killer on a traffic stop, do you want him driving away with a speeding ticket and a smile on his face? Every case of a serial killer on the loose that I've read about results in a dedicated and massive manhunt for the person. Cops don't start stopping every car on the road searching for him. You have never heard about a roadblock perimeter around a crime scene? Hell they set up roadblocks to look for drunk drivers. Everyone gets stopped and interrogated. There is no presumption of innocence there. They will even stop vehicles towing boats coming up out of the keys during mini season looking for illegal lobsters. You give up many rights as soon as you get in your car and the courts uphold it. I think a lot of it is wrong but I have to live in the world we have, not the one Jefferson dreamed of. Difference is in your statement: "You have never heard about a roadblock perimeter around a crime scene? Hell they set up roadblocks to look for drunk drivers. Everyone gets stopped and interrogated. There is no presumption of innocence there. "Everyone" isn't a search via racial profiling. Now you have leapt to the unfounded conclusion that everyone stopped for a registration or equipment violation is black and that only black people with warrants get arrested. Thousands of white people are stopped for that every day and most do not make it a confrontation so they don't get their ass kicked or get killed. Perhaps black people are more likely to be driving old cars with potential equipment violations but you could more correctly say that was poor people. Maybe I just lived closer to the dirt than you but that sort of thing was not uncommon among the people I knew. If you didn't have warrants and you were polite to the cop, you usually got away with a "fix it" ticket. I have known people who had their car towed tho. (too unsafe to drive). That was the day you hope there wasn't a roach in the seat because the car was going to be "inventoried" (AKA searched). I also had an inlaw who liked to fight with the cops and they did some biblical **** to him. He spent one night cuffed to a bench in the police locker room and at shift change, a bunch of cops "accidently bumped into him". Another time he was cuffed to a fence while the cops maced him and kicked the **** out of him. My sister's FIL (retired cop) tried to break it up and he was maced. This was a white guy. He had hurt more than his share of cops tho. He was a nasty SOB. The common denominator in all of these things is fighting with the cops. |
A proposal
On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 10:51:26 -0700 (PDT), True North
wrote: On Thursday, 22 April 2021 at 14:42:46 UTC-3, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:r On 4/21/2021 4:55 PM, John wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:41:10 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 4:23 PM, wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. Cops would be quick to point out, traffic stops solve more felonies and result in more felony arrests than detective work. Without traffic stops about half of the drug war wouldn't be able to be prosecuted. Cops call a traffic stop a "tool", AKA a way to get around your rights. (searches, interrogations without Miranda etc) They are not going to give that up. Look at it another way. If they catch a wanted serial killer on a traffic stop, do you want him driving away with a speeding ticket and a smile on his face? Every case of a serial killer on the loose that I've read about results in a dedicated and massive manhunt for the person. Cops don't start stopping every car on the road searching for him. That doesn't mean the killer couldn't be caught while stopped for an infraction. Suppose a felony warrant is discovered at a sobriety checkpoint?John, I am not debating the logic or reasoning of running checks if stopped for a traffic violation.I am questioning using them as a racially profiling tool due to thenumber of unnecessary shootings and deaths. I've heard all thearguments .... "Don't resist and you won't get shot" ... and Ifundamentally agree with them.But I am not black or a minority. (as far as I know) :-)-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com You are a white American American. You are a minority. -- Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet? ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html What's "a white American American" More of your racist leanings, Justine? It's a different color than a black African American, simpleton. -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
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