On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 07:27:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/15/2021 2:24 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 14:01:43 -0500 (EST), justan wrote:

John Wrote in message:r
KEYSTONE PIPELINE vs TRAIN vs SHIP TO MOVE OILThese numbers were Fact-Checked with Google:1 Train has 100 cars, 2 engines and weighs 27,240,000 LBS.1 Train carries 3,000,000 gallons of oil.1 train uses 55.5 gallons of diesel per mile.It takes 119,000 gallons of diesel to go 2150 miles from Hardidsy, AB toFreeport, TX.Keystone pipeline was to deliver 34,860,000 gallons of oil per day.It would take 12 trains and 1,428,000 gallons of diesel to deliver that amount.PER DAY!521,220,000 gallons of diesel per year.The oil will still go to market with or without the pipeline. By stopping thepipeline billions of gallons of diesel will be wasted and pollute needlessly.Stop the Tar Sands all together? Then we must ship the oil from the overseassandbox.1 large oil tanker can haul 120,000,000 gallons of oil1 boat takes 15 days to cross the Atlantic.1 boat uses 63,000 gallons of fuel PER DAY, that is about 1 million gallons ofthe most polluting type fuel in the world PER TRIP.*(See below)Or
take
3.5 days of Keystone Pipeline to move the same amount of oil with afraction of the pollution.*In international waters ship emissions remains one of the least regulated partsof our global transportation system. The fuel used in ships is waste oil,basically what is left over after the crude oil refining process. It is the sameas asphalt and is so thick that when cold it can be walked upon . It's thecheapest and most polluting fuel available and the world's 90,000 ships chewthrough an astonishing 7.29 million barrels of it each day, or more than 84% ofall exported oil production from Saudi Arabia.Shipping is by far the biggest transport polluter in the world. There are 760million cars in the world today emitting approx 78,599 tons of Sulphur Oxides(SOx) annually. The world's 90,000 vessels burn approx 370 million tons of fuelper year emitting 20 million tons of Sulphur Oxides. That equates to 260 timesmore Sulphur Oxides being emitted by ships than the worlds entire car fleet.
Onelarge
ship alone can generate approx 5,200 tonnes of sulphur oxide pollution ina year, meaning that 15 of the largest ships now emit as much SOx as the worlds760 million cars.Eliminate all gas consuming cars and diesel vehicles?Worldwide car gas consumption is 403,583,712,000 gallons a year. That's billion.Worldwide oil consumption is 1,500,000,000,000 gallons a year. That'strillion.It takes 2.15 gallons of oil to make 1 gallon of car gas and .6 gal of diesel.So it takes 867,704,980,800 gallons of oil to run the worlds cars, most dieselvehicles for a year and some ships.That leaves 632,295,019,200 gallons of oil for other uses.Passenger vehicles are only a very small percentage of the problem. Why notcreate an industry to clean exhaust instead of crushing an entire industry andbuilding a complete untested, replacement industry? Are we willing todramatically increase mining to get all the minerals necessary to make all thesebatteries and electric motors? Mining is way worse for the
environment than oilextraction. How does stopping the Keystone make anyone feel good?[Copied from friend]--Freedom Isn't Free!

When you put it that way, Someone would have to be a complete
idiot to interfere with the completion of the pipeline.

===

There's no question that pipelines are the safest and most cost
effective way of transporting crude oil. I thought it was a
disappointing, bad decision. On the other hand if that was the cost
of getting Trump out of office, maybe it was worth it. I don't want
my grandchildren growing up in a dictator led banana republic,
supported by a cult of racist crazies.



Here's one thing I can't understand:

In 2019, about 63% of U.S. energy generation was produced from fossil
fuels (coal, natural gas, and petroleum). About 20% was from nuclear
energy, and about 17% was from renewable energy sources such as wind,
solar, hydro, etc. Of the 17% of renewable sourced energy, 11% is
currently converted to electricity. BTW ... wind and solar are very
small contributors to the overall "green" sources.

So now, a push is on to eliminate fossil fueled cars and eventually
trucks. GM claims their cars will be all electric in 2035.

Sounds wonderful but where is the electricity required to charge all
these electric powered cars daily going to come from? I can't find the
stats but I imagine the equivalent "green" generated energy required
to fuel a future of all electric vehicles must be enormous.
.

Here's some stats for you:

KEYSTONE PIPELINE vs TRAIN vs SHIP TO MOVE OIL
These numbers were Fact-Checked with Google:
1 Train has 100 cars, 2 engines and weighs 27,240,000 LBS.
1 Train carries 3,000,000 gallons of oil.
1 train uses 55.5 gallons of diesel per mile.
It takes 119,000 gallons of diesel to go 2150 miles from Hardidsy, AB to
Freeport, TX.
Keystone pipeline was to deliver 34,860,000 gallons of oil per day.
It would take 12 trains and 1,428,000 gallons of diesel to deliver that amount.
PER DAY!
521,220,000 gallons of diesel per year.
The oil will still go to market with or without the pipeline. By stopping the
pipeline billions of gallons of diesel will be wasted and pollute needlessly.
Stop the Tar Sands all together? Then we must ship the oil from the overseas
sandbox.
1 large oil tanker can haul 120,000,000 gallons of oil
1 boat takes 15 days to cross the Atlantic.
1 boat uses 63,000 gallons of fuel PER DAY, that is about 1 million gallons of
the most polluting type fuel in the world PER TRIP.*(See below)
Or take 3.5 days of Keystone Pipeline to move the same amount of oil with a
fraction of the pollution.
*In international waters ship emissions remains one of the least regulated parts
of our global transportation system. The fuel used in ships is waste oil,
basically what is left over after the crude oil refining process. It is the same
as asphalt and is so thick that when cold it can be walked upon . It's the
cheapest and most polluting fuel available and the world's 90,000 ships chew
through an astonishing 7.29 million barrels of it each day, or more than 84% of
all exported oil production from Saudi Arabia.
Shipping is by far the biggest transport polluter in the world. There are 760
million cars in the world today emitting approx 78,599 tons of Sulphur Oxides
(SOx) annually. The world's 90,000 vessels burn approx 370 million tons of fuel
per year emitting 20 million tons of Sulphur Oxides. That equates to 260 times
more Sulphur Oxides being emitted by ships than the worlds entire car fleet. One
large ship alone can generate approx 5,200 tonnes of sulphur oxide pollution in
a year, meaning that 15 of the largest ships now emit as much SOx as the worlds
760 million cars.
Eliminate all gas consuming cars and diesel vehicles?
Worldwide car gas consumption is 403,583,712,000 gallons a year. That's billion.
Worldwide oil consumption is 1,500,000,000,000 gallons a year. That's
trillion.
It takes 2.15 gallons of oil to make 1 gallon of car gas and .6 gal of diesel.
So it takes 867,704,980,800 gallons of oil to run the worlds cars, most diesel
vehicles for a year and some ships.
That leaves 632,295,019,200 gallons of oil for other uses.
Passenger vehicles are only a very small percentage of the problem. Why not
create an industry to clean exhaust instead of crushing an entire industry and
building a complete untested, replacement industry? Are we willing to
dramatically increase mining to get all the minerals necessary to make all these
batteries and electric motors? Mining is way worse for the environment than oil
extraction.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

Wayne B wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 07:27:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/15/2021 2:24 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 14:01:43 -0500 (EST), justan wrote:

John Wrote in message:r
KEYSTONE PIPELINE vs TRAIN vs SHIP TO MOVE OILThese numbers were
Fact-Checked with Google:1 Train has 100 cars, 2 engines and weighs
27,240,000 LBS.1 Train carries 3,000,000 gallons of oil.1 train uses
55.5 gallons of diesel per mile.It takes 119,000 gallons of diesel to
go 2150 miles from Hardidsy, AB toFreeport, TX.Keystone pipeline was
to deliver 34,860,000 gallons of oil per day.It would take 12 trains
and 1,428,000 gallons of diesel to deliver that amount.PER
DAY!521,220,000 gallons of diesel per year.The oil will still go to
market with or without the pipeline. By stopping thepipeline billions
of gallons of diesel will be wasted and pollute needlessly.Stop the
Tar Sands all together? Then we must ship the oil from the
overseassandbox.1 large oil tanker can haul 120,000,000 gallons of
oil1 boat takes 15 days to cross the Atlantic.1 boat uses 63,000
gallons of fuel PER DAY, that is about 1 million gallons ofthe most
polluting type fuel in the world PER TRIP.*(See below)Or
take
3.5 days of Keystone Pipeline to move the same amount of oil with
afraction of the pollution.*In international waters ship emissions
remains one of the least regulated partsof our global transportation
system. The fuel used in ships is waste oil,basically what is left
over after the crude oil refining process. It is the sameas asphalt
and is so thick that when cold it can be walked upon . It's
thecheapest and most polluting fuel available and the world's 90,000
ships chewthrough an astonishing 7.29 million barrels of it each day,
or more than 84% ofall exported oil production from Saudi
Arabia.Shipping is by far the biggest transport polluter in the world.
There are 760million cars in the world today emitting approx 78,599
tons of Sulphur Oxides(SOx) annually. The world's 90,000 vessels burn
approx 370 million tons of fuelper year emitting 20 million tons of
Sulphur Oxides. That equates to 260 timesmore Sulphur Oxides being
emitted by ships than the worlds entire car fleet.
Onelarge
ship alone can generate approx 5,200 tonnes of sulphur oxide pollution
ina year, meaning that 15 of the largest ships now emit as much SOx as
the worlds760 million cars.Eliminate all gas consuming cars and diesel
vehicles?Worldwide car gas consumption is 403,583,712,000 gallons a
year. That's billion.Worldwide oil consumption is 1,500,000,000,000
gallons a year. That'strillion.It takes 2.15 gallons of oil to make 1
gallon of car gas and .6 gal of diesel.So it takes 867,704,980,800
gallons of oil to run the worlds cars, most dieselvehicles for a year
and some ships.That leaves 632,295,019,200 gallons of oil for other
uses.Passenger vehicles are only a very small percentage of the
problem. Why notcreate an industry to clean exhaust instead of
crushing an entire industry andbuilding a complete untested,
replacement industry? Are we willing todramatically increase mining to
get all the minerals necessary to make all thesebatteries and electric
motors? Mining is way worse for the
environment than oilextraction. How does stopping the Keystone make
anyone feel good?[Copied from friend]--Freedom Isn't Free!

When you put it that way, Someone would have to be a complete
idiot to interfere with the completion of the pipeline.

===

There's no question that pipelines are the safest and most cost
effective way of transporting crude oil. I thought it was a
disappointing, bad decision. On the other hand if that was the cost
of getting Trump out of office, maybe it was worth it. I don't want
my grandchildren growing up in a dictator led banana republic,
supported by a cult of racist crazies.



Here's one thing I can't understand:

In 2019, about 63% of U.S. energy generation was produced from fossil
fuels (coal, natural gas, and petroleum). About 20% was from nuclear
energy, and about 17% was from renewable energy sources such as wind,
solar, hydro, etc. Of the 17% of renewable sourced energy, 11% is
currently converted to electricity. BTW ... wind and solar are very
small contributors to the overall "green" sources.

So now, a push is on to eliminate fossil fueled cars and eventually
trucks. GM claims their cars will be all electric in 2035.

Sounds wonderful but where is the electricity required to charge all
these electric powered cars daily going to come from? I can't find the
stats but I imagine the equivalent "green" generated energy required
to fuel a future of all electric vehicles must be enormous.
.

===

Good question of course. Even if nothing else changes in the energy
mix, it is important to understand that a lot of our electricity
production has shifted to natural gas in recent years. Nat gas is
much cleaner burning than coal or oil although it still emits a lot of
CO2. There is also a long term shift underway toward hydrogen fueled
long haul trucking. That's going to take a while (if ever) but it
would totally eliminate emissions of all kinds if it comes to pass
since the only combustion product of hydrogen is water. As an
additional benefit, hydrogen can be produced using surplus electrical
power from wind and solar which solves another problem.

https://blog.ballard.com/fuel-cell-truck


But how much natural gas is available, and the costs. I used to pay about
$10 a month for the gas component of my power bill. Now is about $140.
Only difference is I added a gas dryer. I have solar on the house which
seems to supply the equivalent of my electric usage. I pay $10 a month to
the power company for the grid hookup and get a true up bill at the end of
the year for the difference between my mower generation and usage. Was
zero last year.

On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 19:06:41 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Wayne B wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 07:27:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/15/2021 2:24 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 14:01:43 -0500 (EST), justan wrote:

John Wrote in message:r
KEYSTONE PIPELINE vs TRAIN vs SHIP TO MOVE OILThese numbers were
Fact-Checked with Google:1 Train has 100 cars, 2 engines and weighs
27,240,000 LBS.1 Train carries 3,000,000 gallons of oil.1 train uses
55.5 gallons of diesel per mile.It takes 119,000 gallons of diesel to
go 2150 miles from Hardidsy, AB toFreeport, TX.Keystone pipeline was
to deliver 34,860,000 gallons of oil per day.It would take 12 trains
and 1,428,000 gallons of diesel to deliver that amount.PER
DAY!521,220,000 gallons of diesel per year.The oil will still go to
market with or without the pipeline. By stopping thepipeline billions
of gallons of diesel will be wasted and pollute needlessly.Stop the
Tar Sands all together? Then we must ship the oil from the
overseassandbox.1 large oil tanker can haul 120,000,000 gallons of
oil1 boat takes 15 days to cross the Atlantic.1 boat uses 63,000
gallons of fuel PER DAY, that is about 1 million gallons ofthe most
polluting type fuel in the world PER TRIP.*(See below)Or
take
3.5 days of Keystone Pipeline to move the same amount of oil with
afraction of the pollution.*In international waters ship emissions
remains one of the least regulated partsof our global transportation
system. The fuel used in ships is waste oil,basically what is left
over after the crude oil refining process. It is the sameas asphalt
and is so thick that when cold it can be walked upon . It's
thecheapest and most polluting fuel available and the world's 90,000
ships chewthrough an astonishing 7.29 million barrels of it each day,
or more than 84% ofall exported oil production from Saudi
Arabia.Shipping is by far the biggest transport polluter in the world.
There are 760million cars in the world today emitting approx 78,599
tons of Sulphur Oxides(SOx) annually. The world's 90,000 vessels burn
approx 370 million tons of fuelper year emitting 20 million tons of
Sulphur Oxides. That equates to 260 timesmore Sulphur Oxides being
emitted by ships than the worlds entire car fleet.
Onelarge
ship alone can generate approx 5,200 tonnes of sulphur oxide pollution
ina year, meaning that 15 of the largest ships now emit as much SOx as
the worlds760 million cars.Eliminate all gas consuming cars and diesel
vehicles?Worldwide car gas consumption is 403,583,712,000 gallons a
year. That's billion.Worldwide oil consumption is 1,500,000,000,000
gallons a year. That'strillion.It takes 2.15 gallons of oil to make 1
gallon of car gas and .6 gal of diesel.So it takes 867,704,980,800
gallons of oil to run the worlds cars, most dieselvehicles for a year
and some ships.That leaves 632,295,019,200 gallons of oil for other
uses.Passenger vehicles are only a very small percentage of the
problem. Why notcreate an industry to clean exhaust instead of
crushing an entire industry andbuilding a complete untested,
replacement industry? Are we willing todramatically increase mining to
get all the minerals necessary to make all thesebatteries and electric
motors? Mining is way worse for the
environment than oilextraction. How does stopping the Keystone make
anyone feel good?[Copied from friend]--Freedom Isn't Free!

When you put it that way, Someone would have to be a complete
idiot to interfere with the completion of the pipeline.

===

There's no question that pipelines are the safest and most cost
effective way of transporting crude oil. I thought it was a
disappointing, bad decision. On the other hand if that was the cost
of getting Trump out of office, maybe it was worth it. I don't want
my grandchildren growing up in a dictator led banana republic,
supported by a cult of racist crazies.



Here's one thing I can't understand:

In 2019, about 63% of U.S. energy generation was produced from fossil
fuels (coal, natural gas, and petroleum). About 20% was from nuclear
energy, and about 17% was from renewable energy sources such as wind,
solar, hydro, etc. Of the 17% of renewable sourced energy, 11% is
currently converted to electricity. BTW ... wind and solar are very
small contributors to the overall "green" sources.

So now, a push is on to eliminate fossil fueled cars and eventually
trucks. GM claims their cars will be all electric in 2035.

Sounds wonderful but where is the electricity required to charge all
these electric powered cars daily going to come from? I can't find the
stats but I imagine the equivalent "green" generated energy required
to fuel a future of all electric vehicles must be enormous.
.

===

Good question of course. Even if nothing else changes in the energy
mix, it is important to understand that a lot of our electricity
production has shifted to natural gas in recent years. Nat gas is
much cleaner burning than coal or oil although it still emits a lot of
CO2. There is also a long term shift underway toward hydrogen fueled
long haul trucking. That's going to take a while (if ever) but it
would totally eliminate emissions of all kinds if it comes to pass
since the only combustion product of hydrogen is water. As an
additional benefit, hydrogen can be produced using surplus electrical
power from wind and solar which solves another problem.

https://blog.ballard.com/fuel-cell-truck


But how much natural gas is available, and the costs. I used to pay about
$10 a month for the gas component of my power bill. Now is about $140.
Only difference is I added a gas dryer. I have solar on the house which
seems to supply the equivalent of my electric usage. I pay $10 a month to
the power company for the grid hookup and get a true up bill at the end of
the year for the difference between my mower generation and usage. Was
zero last year.

===

There is a *lot* of natural gas available, so much that the energy
industry frequently flares it off at the well head if they have no way
of selling it cost effectively.

On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 10:49:01 -0500, Wayne B
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 10:01:25 -0500, John wrote:


There's no question that pipelines are the safest and most cost
effective way of transporting crude oil. I thought it was a
disappointing, bad decision. On the other hand if that was the cost
of getting Trump out of office, maybe it was worth it. I don't want
my grandchildren growing up in a dictator led banana republic,
supported by a cult of racist crazies.

There you go with the nonsensical bull**** again.

===

It may be nonsense to you but not to a lot of other people. And there
is quite a bit of evidence on my side of the argument. There were
even 7 republicans who had the guts to stand up and let there vote be
counted. It's good to know that sanity, honesty and respect for
democracy prevails in some small corners of the senate.

It's hilarious that you think the military, all of whom have sworn to uphold the
Constitution, would allow someone like Trump to be a dictator.

I'm sure there are some who would believe you.

Show me some evidence that the military, never mind the Secret Service, would
allow such a thing to happen.

I would bet that a closed vote would have shown a lot of observant Democrats
voting not guilty, which would have been the correct vote.
--

===

Trump had already taken steps to co-opt the military during his last 6
months in office, starting with his firing of the secretary of
defense, Mark Esper, along with a lot of other defense advisers that
Trump distrusted.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54880774

https://federalnewsnetwork.com/federal-newscast/2020/12/trump-fires-defense-advisers-replaces-them-with-loyalists-lewandowski-and-bossie/

It's easy to say that a military takeover could never happen here but
it has happened a lot of other places.

The SecDef is a civilian political appointee. Firing them is the President's
choice. He's in the chain of command, but he's not military.

Yup, it's happened in other places. But a military dedicated to upholding the
Constitution would throw Trump on his ass.

In what real Democracy has the military taken over and installed a dictator?
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 08:00:29 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 10:09:26 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 13:58:11 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, February 15, 2021 at 4:04:50 PM UTC-5, Wayne B wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 12:48:42 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, February 15, 2021 at 3:33:39 PM UTC-5, Wayne B wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 12:05:11 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, February 15, 2021 at 2:53:34 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
Wayne B wrote:

There's no question that pipelines are the safest and most cost
effective way of transporting crude oil. I thought it was a
disappointing, bad decision. On the other hand if that was the cost
of getting Trump out of office, maybe it was worth it. I don't want
my grandchildren growing up in a dictator led banana republic,
supported by a cult of racist crazies.

Then why are you supporting Nancy and her ilk?

He seemingly wants his grandchildren to grow up in a socialist society where everyone picks their preferred pronoun, they all have free healthcare but no one has a job since all the businesses have been regulated out of the country, and everyone is under austerity measures and are rioting in the streets. But he's got his and can just cruise down to the islands and live happily ever after with all the rest of the rich liberals.
===

If the Republican party could snap out of their present love affair
with criminal Trump I'd be happy to have a moderate, conservative
president.

If the media and the Democrats could have snapped out of their blind hatred of Trump, and instead of continuously attacking him before he even took office they had tried to work with him, the last 4 years could have been much different.

Besides, the county had to choose between him and criminal Hillary. They chose wisely.
===

I agree that Hillary was a bad choice but I don't think she would have
tried to set herself up as queen for life. And we already know that
she didn't try to steal the election after she lost.

Yeah, she and the DNC tried to cheat and steal the election while it was in progress. Fed her the debate questions in advance, etc.

"queen (POTUS) for life"? Neither did Trump. Hyperbole much?

I believe Trump (rightfully so) questioned the fairness of the election. We now know (Time magazine article) that powerful forces were working to tilt the election away from Trump in Biden's favor, including some very questionable and possibly unconstitutional changes in key swing state's election laws. It was already suspected. I believe we have just had the most contrived and tilted elections that have ever witnessed, and the chicanery came from the liberal side in an all-out effort to make sure he wasn't re-elected.

He made a lot of noise, but in the end I don't believe there is any way he would have tried to declare himself the winner to become king for life. Anyone that *really* believes that is as crazy as the tiny percentage of his supporters that are truly rabid. He, like everyone else, knows that a small group of agents would simply go to the WH and escort him away. Surely you realize that to be the reality?
Are you using Agent as a newsreader? I can adjust my line length (which is set
at 80 characters), so the line will fit on the monitor. Your line length puts
all of this on one line:

*He made a lot of noise, but in the end I don't believe there is any way he
would have tried to declare himself the winner to become king for life. Anyone
that *really* believes that is as crazy as the tiny percentage of his supporters
that are truly rabid.*

I don't know who has convinced Wayne that Trump could just declare himself a
dictator, stay in the White House, and everyone would just do nothing.

But, I suppose that bull**** sounds good if you're a liberal.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

No. Unfortunately, I'm using Google groups. No way to set my line length.

Is there a way to set an auto word wrap in Agent?

Yes, one of the message posting options is the setting of line length by number
of characters.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 08:00:29 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 10:09:26 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 13:58:11 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, February 15, 2021 at 4:04:50 PM UTC-5, Wayne B wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 12:48:42 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, February 15, 2021 at 3:33:39 PM UTC-5, Wayne B wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 12:05:11 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, February 15, 2021 at 2:53:34 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
Wayne B wrote:

There's no question that pipelines are the safest and most cost
effective way of transporting crude oil. I thought it was a
disappointing, bad decision. On the other hand if that was the cost
of getting Trump out of office, maybe it was worth it. I don't want
my grandchildren growing up in a dictator led banana republic,
supported by a cult of racist crazies.

Then why are you supporting Nancy and her ilk?

He seemingly wants his grandchildren to grow up in a socialist society where everyone picks their preferred pronoun, they all have free healthcare but no one has a job since all the businesses have been regulated out of the country, and everyone is under austerity measures and are rioting in the streets. But he's got his and can just cruise down to the islands and live happily ever after with all the rest of the rich liberals.
===

If the Republican party could snap out of their present love affair
with criminal Trump I'd be happy to have a moderate, conservative
president.

If the media and the Democrats could have snapped out of their blind hatred of Trump, and instead of continuously attacking him before he even took office they had tried to work with him, the last 4 years could have been much different.

Besides, the county had to choose between him and criminal Hillary. They chose wisely.
===

I agree that Hillary was a bad choice but I don't think she would have
tried to set herself up as queen for life. And we already know that
she didn't try to steal the election after she lost.

Yeah, she and the DNC tried to cheat and steal the election while it was in progress. Fed her the debate questions in advance, etc.

"queen (POTUS) for life"? Neither did Trump. Hyperbole much?

I believe Trump (rightfully so) questioned the fairness of the election. We now know (Time magazine article) that powerful forces were working to tilt the election away from Trump in Biden's favor, including some very questionable and possibly unconstitutional changes in key swing state's election laws. It was already suspected. I believe we have just had the most contrived and tilted elections that have ever witnessed, and the chicanery came from the liberal side in an all-out effort to make sure he wasn't re-elected.

He made a lot of noise, but in the end I don't believe there is any way he would have tried to declare himself the winner to become king for life. Anyone that *really* believes that is as crazy as the tiny percentage of his supporters that are truly rabid. He, like everyone else, knows that a small group of agents would simply go to the WH and escort him away. Surely you realize that to be the reality?
Are you using Agent as a newsreader? I can adjust my line length (which is set
at 80 characters), so the line will fit on the monitor. Your line length puts
all of this on one line:

*He made a lot of noise, but in the end I don't believe there is any way he
would have tried to declare himself the winner to become king for life. Anyone
that *really* believes that is as crazy as the tiny percentage of his supporters
that are truly rabid.*

I don't know who has convinced Wayne that Trump could just declare himself a
dictator, stay in the White House, and everyone would just do nothing.

But, I suppose that bull**** sounds good if you're a liberal.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

No. Unfortunately, I'm using Google groups. No way to set my line length.

Is there a way to set an auto word wrap in Agent?

Tools, options, posting messages, composition window.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 4:58:28 PM UTC-5, John H wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 08:00:29 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 10:09:26 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 13:58:11 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, February 15, 2021 at 4:04:50 PM UTC-5, Wayne B wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 12:48:42 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, February 15, 2021 at 3:33:39 PM UTC-5, Wayne B wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 12:05:11 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, February 15, 2021 at 2:53:34 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
Wayne B wrote:

There's no question that pipelines are the safest and most cost
effective way of transporting crude oil. I thought it was a
disappointing, bad decision. On the other hand if that was the cost
of getting Trump out of office, maybe it was worth it. I don't want
my grandchildren growing up in a dictator led banana republic,
supported by a cult of racist crazies.

Then why are you supporting Nancy and her ilk?

He seemingly wants his grandchildren to grow up in a socialist society where everyone picks their preferred pronoun, they all have free healthcare but no one has a job since all the businesses have been regulated out of the country, and everyone is under austerity measures and are rioting in the streets. But he's got his and can just cruise down to the islands and live happily ever after with all the rest of the rich liberals.
===

If the Republican party could snap out of their present love affair
with criminal Trump I'd be happy to have a moderate, conservative
president.

If the media and the Democrats could have snapped out of their blind hatred of Trump, and instead of continuously attacking him before he even took office they had tried to work with him, the last 4 years could have been much different.

Besides, the county had to choose between him and criminal Hillary.. They chose wisely.
===

I agree that Hillary was a bad choice but I don't think she would have
tried to set herself up as queen for life. And we already know that
she didn't try to steal the election after she lost.

Yeah, she and the DNC tried to cheat and steal the election while it was in progress. Fed her the debate questions in advance, etc.

"queen (POTUS) for life"? Neither did Trump. Hyperbole much?

I believe Trump (rightfully so) questioned the fairness of the election. We now know (Time magazine article) that powerful forces were working to tilt the election away from Trump in Biden's favor, including some very questionable and possibly unconstitutional changes in key swing state's election laws. It was already suspected. I believe we have just had the most contrived and tilted elections that have ever witnessed, and the chicanery came from the liberal side in an all-out effort to make sure he wasn't re-elected.

He made a lot of noise, but in the end I don't believe there is any way he would have tried to declare himself the winner to become king for life. Anyone that *really* believes that is as crazy as the tiny percentage of his supporters that are truly rabid. He, like everyone else, knows that a small group of agents would simply go to the WH and escort him away. Surely you realize that to be the reality?
Are you using Agent as a newsreader? I can adjust my line length (which is set
at 80 characters), so the line will fit on the monitor. Your line length puts
all of this on one line:

*He made a lot of noise, but in the end I don't believe there is any way he
would have tried to declare himself the winner to become king for life.. Anyone
that *really* believes that is as crazy as the tiny percentage of his supporters
that are truly rabid.*

I don't know who has convinced Wayne that Trump could just declare himself a
dictator, stay in the White House, and everyone would just do nothing.

But, I suppose that bull**** sounds good if you're a liberal.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

No. Unfortunately, I'm using Google groups. No way to set my line length..

Is there a way to set an auto word wrap in Agent?
Tools, options, posting messages, composition window.

Not for you posting, but rather for your own reading window. It needs to auto wrap the text for text strings that exceed your window size.
Windows Notepad has a setting for that, for example. If you open a file that exceeds the window size, you can enable
word wrap and it will automatically wrap the text to fit your viewing window.

On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 10:37:39 -0500, Wayne B
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 07:27:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/15/2021 2:24 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 14:01:43 -0500 (EST), justan wrote:

John Wrote in message:r
KEYSTONE PIPELINE vs TRAIN vs SHIP TO MOVE OILThese numbers were Fact-Checked with Google:1 Train has 100 cars, 2 engines and weighs 27,240,000 LBS.1 Train carries 3,000,000 gallons of oil.1 train uses 55.5 gallons of diesel per mile.It takes 119,000 gallons of diesel to go 2150 miles from Hardidsy, AB toFreeport, TX.Keystone pipeline was to deliver 34,860,000 gallons of oil per day.It would take 12 trains and 1,428,000 gallons of diesel to deliver that amount.PER DAY!521,220,000 gallons of diesel per year.The oil will still go to market with or without the pipeline. By stopping thepipeline billions of gallons of diesel will be wasted and pollute needlessly.Stop the Tar Sands all together? Then we must ship the oil from the overseassandbox.1 large oil tanker can haul 120,000,000 gallons of oil1 boat takes 15 days to cross the Atlantic.1 boat uses 63,000 gallons of fuel PER DAY, that is about 1 million gallons ofthe most polluting type fuel in the world PER TRIP.*(See below)Or
take
3.5 days of Keystone Pipeline to move the same amount of oil with afraction of the pollution.*In international waters ship emissions remains one of the least regulated partsof our global transportation system. The fuel used in ships is waste oil,basically what is left over after the crude oil refining process. It is the sameas asphalt and is so thick that when cold it can be walked upon . It's thecheapest and most polluting fuel available and the world's 90,000 ships chewthrough an astonishing 7.29 million barrels of it each day, or more than 84% ofall exported oil production from Saudi Arabia.Shipping is by far the biggest transport polluter in the world. There are 760million cars in the world today emitting approx 78,599 tons of Sulphur Oxides(SOx) annually. The world's 90,000 vessels burn approx 370 million tons of fuelper year emitting 20 million tons of Sulphur Oxides. That equates to 260 timesmore Sulphur Oxides being emitted by ships than the worlds entire car fleet.
Onelarge
ship alone can generate approx 5,200 tonnes of sulphur oxide pollution ina year, meaning that 15 of the largest ships now emit as much SOx as the worlds760 million cars.Eliminate all gas consuming cars and diesel vehicles?Worldwide car gas consumption is 403,583,712,000 gallons a year. That's billion.Worldwide oil consumption is 1,500,000,000,000 gallons a year. That'strillion.It takes 2.15 gallons of oil to make 1 gallon of car gas and .6 gal of diesel.So it takes 867,704,980,800 gallons of oil to run the worlds cars, most dieselvehicles for a year and some ships.That leaves 632,295,019,200 gallons of oil for other uses.Passenger vehicles are only a very small percentage of the problem. Why notcreate an industry to clean exhaust instead of crushing an entire industry andbuilding a complete untested, replacement industry? Are we willing todramatically increase mining to get all the minerals necessary to make all thesebatteries and electric motors? Mining is way worse for the
environment than oilextraction. How does stopping the Keystone make anyone feel good?[Copied from friend]--Freedom Isn't Free!

When you put it that way, Someone would have to be a complete
idiot to interfere with the completion of the pipeline.

===

There's no question that pipelines are the safest and most cost
effective way of transporting crude oil. I thought it was a
disappointing, bad decision. On the other hand if that was the cost
of getting Trump out of office, maybe it was worth it. I don't want
my grandchildren growing up in a dictator led banana republic,
supported by a cult of racist crazies.



Here's one thing I can't understand:

In 2019, about 63% of U.S. energy generation was produced from fossil
fuels (coal, natural gas, and petroleum). About 20% was from nuclear
energy, and about 17% was from renewable energy sources such as wind,
solar, hydro, etc. Of the 17% of renewable sourced energy, 11% is
currently converted to electricity. BTW ... wind and solar are very
small contributors to the overall "green" sources.

So now, a push is on to eliminate fossil fueled cars and eventually
trucks. GM claims their cars will be all electric in 2035.

Sounds wonderful but where is the electricity required to charge all
these electric powered cars daily going to come from? I can't find the
stats but I imagine the equivalent "green" generated energy required
to fuel a future of all electric vehicles must be enormous.
.

===

Good question of course. Even if nothing else changes in the energy
mix, it is important to understand that a lot of our electricity
production has shifted to natural gas in recent years. Nat gas is
much cleaner burning than coal or oil although it still emits a lot of
CO2. There is also a long term shift underway toward hydrogen fueled
long haul trucking. That's going to take a while (if ever) but it
would totally eliminate emissions of all kinds if it comes to pass
since the only combustion product of hydrogen is water. As an
additional benefit, hydrogen can be produced using surplus electrical
power from wind and solar which solves another problem.

https://blog.ballard.com/fuel-cell-truck

Hydrogen is just like electricity. It just moves the smokestack down
the road. Most hydrogen comes from cracking natural gas.

On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 10:37:39 -0500, Wayne B
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 07:27:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/15/2021 2:24 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 14:01:43 -0500 (EST), justan wrote:

John Wrote in message:r
KEYSTONE PIPELINE vs TRAIN vs SHIP TO MOVE OILThese numbers were Fact-Checked with Google:1 Train has 100 cars, 2 engines and weighs 27,240,000 LBS.1 Train carries 3,000,000 gallons of oil.1 train uses 55.5 gallons of diesel per mile.It takes 119,000 gallons of diesel to go 2150 miles from Hardidsy, AB toFreeport, TX.Keystone pipeline was to deliver 34,860,000 gallons of oil per day.It would take 12 trains and 1,428,000 gallons of diesel to deliver that amount.PER DAY!521,220,000 gallons of diesel per year.The oil will still go to market with or without the pipeline. By stopping thepipeline billions of gallons of diesel will be wasted and pollute needlessly.Stop the Tar Sands all together? Then we must ship the oil from the overseassandbox.1 large oil tanker can haul 120,000,000 gallons of oil1 boat takes 15 days to cross the Atlantic.1 boat uses 63,000 gallons of fuel PER DAY, that is about 1 million gallons ofthe most polluting type fuel in the world PER TRIP.*(See below)Or
take
3.5 days of Keystone Pipeline to move the same amount of oil with afraction of the pollution.*In international waters ship emissions remains one of the least regulated partsof our global transportation system. The fuel used in ships is waste oil,basically what is left over after the crude oil refining process. It is the sameas asphalt and is so thick that when cold it can be walked upon . It's thecheapest and most polluting fuel available and the world's 90,000 ships chewthrough an astonishing 7.29 million barrels of it each day, or more than 84% ofall exported oil production from Saudi Arabia.Shipping is by far the biggest transport polluter in the world. There are 760million cars in the world today emitting approx 78,599 tons of Sulphur Oxides(SOx) annually. The world's 90,000 vessels burn approx 370 million tons of fuelper year emitting 20 million tons of Sulphur Oxides. That equates to 260 timesmore Sulphur Oxides being emitted by ships than the worlds entire car fleet.
Onelarge
ship alone can generate approx 5,200 tonnes of sulphur oxide pollution ina year, meaning that 15 of the largest ships now emit as much SOx as the worlds760 million cars.Eliminate all gas consuming cars and diesel vehicles?Worldwide car gas consumption is 403,583,712,000 gallons a year. That's billion.Worldwide oil consumption is 1,500,000,000,000 gallons a year. That'strillion.It takes 2.15 gallons of oil to make 1 gallon of car gas and .6 gal of diesel.So it takes 867,704,980,800 gallons of oil to run the worlds cars, most dieselvehicles for a year and some ships.That leaves 632,295,019,200 gallons of oil for other uses.Passenger vehicles are only a very small percentage of the problem. Why notcreate an industry to clean exhaust instead of crushing an entire industry andbuilding a complete untested, replacement industry? Are we willing todramatically increase mining to get all the minerals necessary to make all thesebatteries and electric motors? Mining is way worse for the
environment than oilextraction. How does stopping the Keystone make anyone feel good?[Copied from friend]--Freedom Isn't Free!

When you put it that way, Someone would have to be a complete
idiot to interfere with the completion of the pipeline.

===

There's no question that pipelines are the safest and most cost
effective way of transporting crude oil. I thought it was a
disappointing, bad decision. On the other hand if that was the cost
of getting Trump out of office, maybe it was worth it. I don't want
my grandchildren growing up in a dictator led banana republic,
supported by a cult of racist crazies.



Here's one thing I can't understand:

In 2019, about 63% of U.S. energy generation was produced from fossil
fuels (coal, natural gas, and petroleum). About 20% was from nuclear
energy, and about 17% was from renewable energy sources such as wind,
solar, hydro, etc. Of the 17% of renewable sourced energy, 11% is
currently converted to electricity. BTW ... wind and solar are very
small contributors to the overall "green" sources.

So now, a push is on to eliminate fossil fueled cars and eventually
trucks. GM claims their cars will be all electric in 2035.

Sounds wonderful but where is the electricity required to charge all
these electric powered cars daily going to come from? I can't find the
stats but I imagine the equivalent "green" generated energy required
to fuel a future of all electric vehicles must be enormous.
.

===

Good question of course. Even if nothing else changes in the energy
mix, it is important to understand that a lot of our electricity
production has shifted to natural gas in recent years. Nat gas is
much cleaner burning than coal or oil although it still emits a lot of
CO2. There is also a long term shift underway toward hydrogen fueled
long haul trucking. That's going to take a while (if ever) but it
would totally eliminate emissions of all kinds if it comes to pass
since the only combustion product of hydrogen is water. As an
additional benefit, hydrogen can be produced using surplus electrical
power from wind and solar which solves another problem.

https://blog.ballard.com/fuel-cell-truck

One of T Boone Pickens' projects was converting OTR trucks to LNG. I
still have some of that stock. It is finally back in the black again.
(CLNE)

Wayne B wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 19:06:41 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Wayne B wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 07:27:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/15/2021 2:24 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 14:01:43 -0500 (EST), justan wrote:

John Wrote in message:r
KEYSTONE PIPELINE vs TRAIN vs SHIP TO MOVE OILThese numbers were
Fact-Checked with Google:1 Train has 100 cars, 2 engines and weighs
27,240,000 LBS.1 Train carries 3,000,000 gallons of oil.1 train uses
55.5 gallons of diesel per mile.It takes 119,000 gallons of diesel to
go 2150 miles from Hardidsy, AB toFreeport, TX.Keystone pipeline was
to deliver 34,860,000 gallons of oil per day.It would take 12 trains
and 1,428,000 gallons of diesel to deliver that amount.PER
DAY!521,220,000 gallons of diesel per year.The oil will still go to
market with or without the pipeline. By stopping thepipeline billions
of gallons of diesel will be wasted and pollute needlessly.Stop the
Tar Sands all together? Then we must ship the oil from the
overseassandbox.1 large oil tanker can haul 120,000,000 gallons of
oil1 boat takes 15 days to cross the Atlantic.1 boat uses 63,000
gallons of fuel PER DAY, that is about 1 million gallons ofthe most
polluting type fuel in the world PER TRIP.*(See below)Or
take
3.5 days of Keystone Pipeline to move the same amount of oil with
afraction of the pollution.*In international waters ship emissions
remains one of the least regulated partsof our global transportation
system. The fuel used in ships is waste oil,basically what is left
over after the crude oil refining process. It is the sameas asphalt
and is so thick that when cold it can be walked upon . It's
thecheapest and most polluting fuel available and the world's 90,000
ships chewthrough an astonishing 7.29 million barrels of it each day,
or more than 84% ofall exported oil production from Saudi
Arabia.Shipping is by far the biggest transport polluter in the world.
There are 760million cars in the world today emitting approx 78,599
tons of Sulphur Oxides(SOx) annually. The world's 90,000 vessels burn
approx 370 million tons of fuelper year emitting 20 million tons of
Sulphur Oxides. That equates to 260 timesmore Sulphur Oxides being
emitted by ships than the worlds entire car fleet.
Onelarge
ship alone can generate approx 5,200 tonnes of sulphur oxide pollution
ina year, meaning that 15 of the largest ships now emit as much SOx as
the worlds760 million cars.Eliminate all gas consuming cars and diesel
vehicles?Worldwide car gas consumption is 403,583,712,000 gallons a
year. That's billion.Worldwide oil consumption is 1,500,000,000,000
gallons a year. That'strillion.It takes 2.15 gallons of oil to make 1
gallon of car gas and .6 gal of diesel.So it takes 867,704,980,800
gallons of oil to run the worlds cars, most dieselvehicles for a year
and some ships.That leaves 632,295,019,200 gallons of oil for other
uses.Passenger vehicles are only a very small percentage of the
problem. Why notcreate an industry to clean exhaust instead of
crushing an entire industry andbuilding a complete untested,
replacement industry? Are we willing todramatically increase mining to
get all the minerals necessary to make all thesebatteries and electric
motors? Mining is way worse for the
environment than oilextraction. How does stopping the Keystone make
anyone feel good?[Copied from friend]--Freedom Isn't Free!

When you put it that way, Someone would have to be a complete
idiot to interfere with the completion of the pipeline.

===

There's no question that pipelines are the safest and most cost
effective way of transporting crude oil. I thought it was a
disappointing, bad decision. On the other hand if that was the cost
of getting Trump out of office, maybe it was worth it. I don't want
my grandchildren growing up in a dictator led banana republic,
supported by a cult of racist crazies.



Here's one thing I can't understand:

In 2019, about 63% of U.S. energy generation was produced from fossil
fuels (coal, natural gas, and petroleum). About 20% was from nuclear
energy, and about 17% was from renewable energy sources such as wind,
solar, hydro, etc. Of the 17% of renewable sourced energy, 11% is
currently converted to electricity. BTW ... wind and solar are very
small contributors to the overall "green" sources.

So now, a push is on to eliminate fossil fueled cars and eventually
trucks. GM claims their cars will be all electric in 2035.

Sounds wonderful but where is the electricity required to charge all
these electric powered cars daily going to come from? I can't find the
stats but I imagine the equivalent "green" generated energy required
to fuel a future of all electric vehicles must be enormous.
.

===

Good question of course. Even if nothing else changes in the energy
mix, it is important to understand that a lot of our electricity
production has shifted to natural gas in recent years. Nat gas is
much cleaner burning than coal or oil although it still emits a lot of
CO2. There is also a long term shift underway toward hydrogen fueled
long haul trucking. That's going to take a while (if ever) but it
would totally eliminate emissions of all kinds if it comes to pass
since the only combustion product of hydrogen is water. As an
additional benefit, hydrogen can be produced using surplus electrical
power from wind and solar which solves another problem.

https://blog.ballard.com/fuel-cell-truck


But how much natural gas is available, and the costs. I used to pay about
$10 a month for the gas component of my power bill. Now is about $140.
Only difference is I added a gas dryer. I have solar on the house which
seems to supply the equivalent of my electric usage. I pay $10 a month to
the power company for the grid hookup and get a true up bill at the end of
the year for the difference between my mower generation and usage. Was
zero last year.

===

There is a *lot* of natural gas available, so much that the energy
industry frequently flares it off at the well head if they have no way
of selling it cost effectively.


Mostly flared as safety and not enough to pipe it or store it.