On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 08:40:18 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 12/1/20 11:41 PM, Bill wrote:
Wayne B wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 20:09:30 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 07:05:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 2:59:18 PM UTC-5, Wayne B wrote:
Signatures needed on petition to evaluate and stabilize the Arecibo
radio telescope: "We urge emergency action to have the Army Corps of
Engineers or another agency evaluate the telescope structure and
search for a safe way to stabilize it," reads the petition to the
White House, which had more than 28,000 signatures as of Friday.
Space.com notes if the petition gets 100,000 signees by Dec. 21, the
White House has to respond within two months. Jenniffer Gonzalez,
Puerto Rico's resident commissioner, is also taking action, sending a
letter to Congress last week to request funds to make repairs. The NSF
maintains the structure is beyond safe renovation. "We understand the
risk of going there and trying to fix it," Wilbert Ruperto-Hernandez,
one of the organizers of the "Save the Arecibo Observatory" campaign,
tells Space.com. "But not many people think that it should be an
excuse to just demolish it."

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/petition-emergency-action-evaluate-and-stabilize-arecibo-radio-telescope

And just like that, now it's gone...

"SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico?A huge, already damaged radio telescope in Puerto
Rico that has played a key role in astronomical discoveries for more
than half a century completely collapsed on Tuesday.

The telescope's 900-ton receiver platform fell onto the reflector dish
more than 400 feet below."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/huge-loss-huge-puerto-rico-radio-telescope-arecibo-collapses-following-n1249515

I reckon that solves that problem. Glad no one was hurt.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!


With the lack of maintenance, I hope whomever was in charge does not get
another management position.

===

I agree but it's possible there was a funding issue. NSF facilities
are constantly struggling for budget dollars. There are newer radio
telescopes that have come online since Arecibo was built and they
might have had a higher funding priority.


Still, cable maintenance should be close to numero uno.


I wonder what the cost of a replacement telescope we need for the
advancement of science is in comparison to another aircraft carrier we
don't need. I read somewhere that the aircraft carrier named after Gerry
Ford cost about $13 billion.

===

I'm all for spending money on science but aircraft carriers are
interesting from a strategic standpoint. They are like a little
island of US territory that can be moved anywhere you want. And think
of all those good union jobs involved in the construction and
maintenance. :-)

On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 08:40:18 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 12/1/20 11:41 PM, Bill wrote:
Wayne B wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 20:09:30 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 07:05:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 2:59:18 PM UTC-5, Wayne B wrote:
Signatures needed on petition to evaluate and stabilize the Arecibo
radio telescope: "We urge emergency action to have the Army Corps of
Engineers or another agency evaluate the telescope structure and
search for a safe way to stabilize it," reads the petition to the
White House, which had more than 28,000 signatures as of Friday.
Space.com notes if the petition gets 100,000 signees by Dec. 21, the
White House has to respond within two months. Jenniffer Gonzalez,
Puerto Rico's resident commissioner, is also taking action, sending a
letter to Congress last week to request funds to make repairs. The NSF
maintains the structure is beyond safe renovation. "We understand the
risk of going there and trying to fix it," Wilbert Ruperto-Hernandez,
one of the organizers of the "Save the Arecibo Observatory" campaign,
tells Space.com. "But not many people think that it should be an
excuse to just demolish it."

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/petition-emergency-action-evaluate-and-stabilize-arecibo-radio-telescope

And just like that, now it's gone...

"SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico?A huge, already damaged radio telescope in Puerto
Rico that has played a key role in astronomical discoveries for more
than half a century completely collapsed on Tuesday.

The telescope's 900-ton receiver platform fell onto the reflector dish
more than 400 feet below."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/huge-loss-huge-puerto-rico-radio-telescope-arecibo-collapses-following-n1249515

I reckon that solves that problem. Glad no one was hurt.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!


With the lack of maintenance, I hope whomever was in charge does not get
another management position.

===

I agree but it's possible there was a funding issue. NSF facilities
are constantly struggling for budget dollars. There are newer radio
telescopes that have come online since Arecibo was built and they
might have had a higher funding priority.


Still, cable maintenance should be close to numero uno.


I wonder what the cost of a replacement telescope we need for the
advancement of science is in comparison to another aircraft carrier we
don't need. I read somewhere that the aircraft carrier named after Gerry
Ford cost about $13 billion.

In the grand scheme of things, this telescope is chump change. A
couple percent of the $14 Billion in bribes they paid in this election
would build a really nice one.

On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 18:36:49 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 04:41:19 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Wayne B wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 20:09:30 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 07:05:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 2:59:18 PM UTC-5, Wayne B wrote:
Signatures needed on petition to evaluate and stabilize the Arecibo
radio telescope: "We urge emergency action to have the Army Corps of
Engineers or another agency evaluate the telescope structure and
search for a safe way to stabilize it," reads the petition to the
White House, which had more than 28,000 signatures as of Friday.
Space.com notes if the petition gets 100,000 signees by Dec. 21, the
White House has to respond within two months. Jenniffer Gonzalez,
Puerto Rico's resident commissioner, is also taking action, sending a
letter to Congress last week to request funds to make repairs. The NSF
maintains the structure is beyond safe renovation. "We understand the
risk of going there and trying to fix it," Wilbert Ruperto-Hernandez,
one of the organizers of the "Save the Arecibo Observatory" campaign,
tells Space.com. "But not many people think that it should be an
excuse to just demolish it."

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/petition-emergency-action-evaluate-and-stabilize-arecibo-radio-telescope

And just like that, now it's gone...

"SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico?A huge, already damaged radio telescope in Puerto
Rico that has played a key role in astronomical discoveries for more
than half a century completely collapsed on Tuesday.

The telescope's 900-ton receiver platform fell onto the reflector dish
more than 400 feet below."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/huge-loss-huge-puerto-rico-radio-telescope-arecibo-collapses-following-n1249515

I reckon that solves that problem. Glad no one was hurt.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!


With the lack of maintenance, I hope whomever was in charge does not get
another management position.

===

I agree but it's possible there was a funding issue. NSF facilities
are constantly struggling for budget dollars. There are newer radio
telescopes that have come online since Arecibo was built and they
might have had a higher funding priority.


Still, cable maintenance should be close to numero uno.

In a tropical island, steel has a life span and all the maintenance in
the world is not going to change that much. The way I understand it
this cable rusted from the inside out.


Maintenance is also replacing the cables when they wear. Rust is wear.
Can you imagine a ski resort maintenance supervisor blowing off broken
wires in a chairlift cable?

This is not a simple thing to "Replace the cables" in. The "chair" in
this case is 900 tons and no easy place to set it down.

On 12/2/20 1:55 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 08:40:18 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 12/1/20 11:41 PM, Bill wrote:
Wayne B wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 20:09:30 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 07:05:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 2:59:18 PM UTC-5, Wayne B wrote:
Signatures needed on petition to evaluate and stabilize the Arecibo
radio telescope: "We urge emergency action to have the Army Corps of
Engineers or another agency evaluate the telescope structure and
search for a safe way to stabilize it," reads the petition to the
White House, which had more than 28,000 signatures as of Friday.
Space.com notes if the petition gets 100,000 signees by Dec. 21, the
White House has to respond within two months. Jenniffer Gonzalez,
Puerto Rico's resident commissioner, is also taking action, sending a
letter to Congress last week to request funds to make repairs. The NSF
maintains the structure is beyond safe renovation. "We understand the
risk of going there and trying to fix it," Wilbert Ruperto-Hernandez,
one of the organizers of the "Save the Arecibo Observatory" campaign,
tells Space.com. "But not many people think that it should be an
excuse to just demolish it."

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/petition-emergency-action-evaluate-and-stabilize-arecibo-radio-telescope

And just like that, now it's gone...

"SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico?A huge, already damaged radio telescope in Puerto
Rico that has played a key role in astronomical discoveries for more
than half a century completely collapsed on Tuesday.

The telescope's 900-ton receiver platform fell onto the reflector dish
more than 400 feet below."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/huge-loss-huge-puerto-rico-radio-telescope-arecibo-collapses-following-n1249515

I reckon that solves that problem. Glad no one was hurt.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!


With the lack of maintenance, I hope whomever was in charge does not get
another management position.

===

I agree but it's possible there was a funding issue. NSF facilities
are constantly struggling for budget dollars. There are newer radio
telescopes that have come online since Arecibo was built and they
might have had a higher funding priority.


Still, cable maintenance should be close to numero uno.


I wonder what the cost of a replacement telescope we need for the
advancement of science is in comparison to another aircraft carrier we
don't need. I read somewhere that the aircraft carrier named after Gerry
Ford cost about $13 billion.

===

I'm all for spending money on science but aircraft carriers are
interesting from a strategic standpoint. They are like a little
island of US territory that can be moved anywhere you want. And think
of all those good union jobs involved in the construction and
maintenance. :-)


We have enough aircraft carriers. I appreciate the great jobs building
carriers provides, but the ironworkers, electricians, pipefitters, et
cetera, could be building components for bridges, hospitals, treatment
plants, power plants, AND a new super radio telescope.

--
Bozo Bin resuscitated...John Herring in there, along with Bert Robbins,
452471atgmail.com, Just-AN-Asshole, Evangelical Tim, and Gunboy Alex.
Oh, if you are in the Bozo Bin, it is because you are only here to
insult or your posts lack wit or you are deadly dull, or a combination.
In Just-AN-Asshole's case, it is all three.

On Wed, 02 Dec 2020 13:55:18 -0500, Wayne B
wrote:

On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 08:40:18 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 12/1/20 11:41 PM, Bill wrote:
Wayne B wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 20:09:30 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 07:05:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 2:59:18 PM UTC-5, Wayne B wrote:
Signatures needed on petition to evaluate and stabilize the Arecibo
radio telescope: "We urge emergency action to have the Army Corps of
Engineers or another agency evaluate the telescope structure and
search for a safe way to stabilize it," reads the petition to the
White House, which had more than 28,000 signatures as of Friday.
Space.com notes if the petition gets 100,000 signees by Dec. 21, the
White House has to respond within two months. Jenniffer Gonzalez,
Puerto Rico's resident commissioner, is also taking action, sending a
letter to Congress last week to request funds to make repairs. The NSF
maintains the structure is beyond safe renovation. "We understand the
risk of going there and trying to fix it," Wilbert Ruperto-Hernandez,
one of the organizers of the "Save the Arecibo Observatory" campaign,
tells Space.com. "But not many people think that it should be an
excuse to just demolish it."

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/petition-emergency-action-evaluate-and-stabilize-arecibo-radio-telescope

And just like that, now it's gone...

"SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico?A huge, already damaged radio telescope in Puerto
Rico that has played a key role in astronomical discoveries for more
than half a century completely collapsed on Tuesday.

The telescope's 900-ton receiver platform fell onto the reflector dish
more than 400 feet below."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/huge-loss-huge-puerto-rico-radio-telescope-arecibo-collapses-following-n1249515

I reckon that solves that problem. Glad no one was hurt.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!


With the lack of maintenance, I hope whomever was in charge does not get
another management position.

===

I agree but it's possible there was a funding issue. NSF facilities
are constantly struggling for budget dollars. There are newer radio
telescopes that have come online since Arecibo was built and they
might have had a higher funding priority.


Still, cable maintenance should be close to numero uno.


I wonder what the cost of a replacement telescope we need for the
advancement of science is in comparison to another aircraft carrier we
don't need. I read somewhere that the aircraft carrier named after Gerry
Ford cost about $13 billion.

===

I'm all for spending money on science but aircraft carriers are
interesting from a strategic standpoint. They are like a little
island of US territory that can be moved anywhere you want. And think
of all those good union jobs involved in the construction and
maintenance. :-)

I might agree with Harry more on this.
Carriers are great for pummelling a 3d world country but they don't
really add much to our national defense. In a war with any powerful
country, our carriers would be artificial reefs in a week or so.
(Zumwalt admitted that) They are great big targets you can't hide from
satellites and would be easy pickings for a ballistic missile barrage.
Our defenses are based on an attack from sea level, not warheads,
maybe nuclear, falling out of space.

On 12/2/20 3:58 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 02 Dec 2020 13:55:18 -0500, Wayne B
wrote:

On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 08:40:18 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 12/1/20 11:41 PM, Bill wrote:
Wayne B wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 20:09:30 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 07:05:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 2:59:18 PM UTC-5, Wayne B wrote:
Signatures needed on petition to evaluate and stabilize the Arecibo
radio telescope: "We urge emergency action to have the Army Corps of
Engineers or another agency evaluate the telescope structure and
search for a safe way to stabilize it," reads the petition to the
White House, which had more than 28,000 signatures as of Friday.
Space.com notes if the petition gets 100,000 signees by Dec. 21, the
White House has to respond within two months. Jenniffer Gonzalez,
Puerto Rico's resident commissioner, is also taking action, sending a
letter to Congress last week to request funds to make repairs. The NSF
maintains the structure is beyond safe renovation. "We understand the
risk of going there and trying to fix it," Wilbert Ruperto-Hernandez,
one of the organizers of the "Save the Arecibo Observatory" campaign,
tells Space.com. "But not many people think that it should be an
excuse to just demolish it."

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/petition-emergency-action-evaluate-and-stabilize-arecibo-radio-telescope

And just like that, now it's gone...

"SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico?A huge, already damaged radio telescope in Puerto
Rico that has played a key role in astronomical discoveries for more
than half a century completely collapsed on Tuesday.

The telescope's 900-ton receiver platform fell onto the reflector dish
more than 400 feet below."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/huge-loss-huge-puerto-rico-radio-telescope-arecibo-collapses-following-n1249515

I reckon that solves that problem. Glad no one was hurt.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!


With the lack of maintenance, I hope whomever was in charge does not get
another management position.

===

I agree but it's possible there was a funding issue. NSF facilities
are constantly struggling for budget dollars. There are newer radio
telescopes that have come online since Arecibo was built and they
might have had a higher funding priority.


Still, cable maintenance should be close to numero uno.


I wonder what the cost of a replacement telescope we need for the
advancement of science is in comparison to another aircraft carrier we
don't need. I read somewhere that the aircraft carrier named after Gerry
Ford cost about $13 billion.

===

I'm all for spending money on science but aircraft carriers are
interesting from a strategic standpoint. They are like a little
island of US territory that can be moved anywhere you want. And think
of all those good union jobs involved in the construction and
maintenance. :-)

I might agree with Harry more on this.
Carriers are great for pummelling a 3d world country but they don't
really add much to our national defense. In a war with any powerful
country, our carriers would be artificial reefs in a week or so.
(Zumwalt admitted that) They are great big targets you can't hide from
satellites and would be easy pickings for a ballistic missile barrage.
Our defenses are based on an attack from sea level, not warheads,
maybe nuclear, falling out of space.


I have no idea what it would cost to replace the 'scope in Puerto Rico
with something of current technology, but for the $13 billion involved
in building a carrier, we could finance a considerable number of sorely
needed infrastructure improvements and replacements. I read somewhere
that it would cost about $700 million to build a new Golden Gate bridge.

--
Bozo Bin resuscitated...John Herring in there, along with Bert Robbins,
452471atgmail.com, Just-AN-Asshole, Evangelical Tim, and Gunboy Alex.
Oh, if you are in the Bozo Bin, it is because you are only here to
insult or your posts lack wit or you are deadly dull, or a combination.
In Just-AN-Asshole's case, it is all three.

wrote:
On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 18:36:49 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 04:41:19 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Wayne B wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 20:09:30 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 07:05:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 2:59:18 PM UTC-5, Wayne B wrote:
Signatures needed on petition to evaluate and stabilize the Arecibo
radio telescope: "We urge emergency action to have the Army Corps of
Engineers or another agency evaluate the telescope structure and
search for a safe way to stabilize it," reads the petition to the
White House, which had more than 28,000 signatures as of Friday.
Space.com notes if the petition gets 100,000 signees by Dec. 21, the
White House has to respond within two months. Jenniffer Gonzalez,
Puerto Rico's resident commissioner, is also taking action, sending a
letter to Congress last week to request funds to make repairs. The NSF
maintains the structure is beyond safe renovation. "We understand the
risk of going there and trying to fix it," Wilbert Ruperto-Hernandez,
one of the organizers of the "Save the Arecibo Observatory" campaign,
tells Space.com. "But not many people think that it should be an
excuse to just demolish it."

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/petition-emergency-action-evaluate-and-stabilize-arecibo-radio-telescope

And just like that, now it's gone...

"SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico?A huge, already damaged radio telescope in Puerto
Rico that has played a key role in astronomical discoveries for more
than half a century completely collapsed on Tuesday.

The telescope's 900-ton receiver platform fell onto the reflector dish
more than 400 feet below."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/huge-loss-huge-puerto-rico-radio-telescope-arecibo-collapses-following-n1249515

I reckon that solves that problem. Glad no one was hurt.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!


With the lack of maintenance, I hope whomever was in charge does not get
another management position.

===

I agree but it's possible there was a funding issue. NSF facilities
are constantly struggling for budget dollars. There are newer radio
telescopes that have come online since Arecibo was built and they
might have had a higher funding priority.


Still, cable maintenance should be close to numero uno.

In a tropical island, steel has a life span and all the maintenance in
the world is not going to change that much. The way I understand it
this cable rusted from the inside out.


Maintenance is also replacing the cables when they wear. Rust is wear.
Can you imagine a ski resort maintenance supervisor blowing off broken
wires in a chairlift cable?

This is not a simple thing to "Replace the cables" in. The "chair" in
this case is 900 tons and no easy place to set it down.


Attach parallel cables to start. Maybe decide 900 tons is a few too many
tons. How much of that weight is old, unused or broken equipment?

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 12/2/20 3:58 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 02 Dec 2020 13:55:18 -0500, Wayne B
wrote:

On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 08:40:18 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 12/1/20 11:41 PM, Bill wrote:
Wayne B wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 20:09:30 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 07:05:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 2:59:18 PM UTC-5, Wayne B wrote:
Signatures needed on petition to evaluate and stabilize the Arecibo
radio telescope: "We urge emergency action to have the Army Corps of
Engineers or another agency evaluate the telescope structure and
search for a safe way to stabilize it," reads the petition to the
White House, which had more than 28,000 signatures as of Friday.
Space.com notes if the petition gets 100,000 signees by Dec. 21, the
White House has to respond within two months. Jenniffer Gonzalez,
Puerto Rico's resident commissioner, is also taking action, sending a
letter to Congress last week to request funds to make repairs. The NSF
maintains the structure is beyond safe renovation. "We understand the
risk of going there and trying to fix it," Wilbert Ruperto-Hernandez,
one of the organizers of the "Save the Arecibo Observatory" campaign,
tells Space.com. "But not many people think that it should be an
excuse to just demolish it."

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/petition-emergency-action-evaluate-and-stabilize-arecibo-radio-telescope

And just like that, now it's gone...

"SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico?A huge, already damaged radio telescope in Puerto
Rico that has played a key role in astronomical discoveries for more
than half a century completely collapsed on Tuesday.

The telescope's 900-ton receiver platform fell onto the reflector dish
more than 400 feet below."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/huge-loss-huge-puerto-rico-radio-telescope-arecibo-collapses-following-n1249515

I reckon that solves that problem. Glad no one was hurt.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!


With the lack of maintenance, I hope whomever was in charge does not get
another management position.

===

I agree but it's possible there was a funding issue. NSF facilities
are constantly struggling for budget dollars. There are newer radio
telescopes that have come online since Arecibo was built and they
might have had a higher funding priority.


Still, cable maintenance should be close to numero uno.


I wonder what the cost of a replacement telescope we need for the
advancement of science is in comparison to another aircraft carrier we
don't need. I read somewhere that the aircraft carrier named after Gerry
Ford cost about $13 billion.

===

I'm all for spending money on science but aircraft carriers are
interesting from a strategic standpoint. They are like a little
island of US territory that can be moved anywhere you want. And think
of all those good union jobs involved in the construction and
maintenance. :-)

I might agree with Harry more on this.
Carriers are great for pummelling a 3d world country but they don't
really add much to our national defense. In a war with any powerful
country, our carriers would be artificial reefs in a week or so.
(Zumwalt admitted that) They are great big targets you can't hide from
satellites and would be easy pickings for a ballistic missile barrage.
Our defenses are based on an attack from sea level, not warheads,
maybe nuclear, falling out of space.


I have no idea what it would cost to replace the 'scope in Puerto Rico
with something of current technology, but for the $13 billion involved
in building a carrier, we could finance a considerable number of sorely
needed infrastructure improvements and replacements. I read somewhere
that it would cost about $700 million to build a new Golden Gate bridge.


$700 million? Hell, the Bay Bridge replacement was billions. Private
industry, maybe the $700 million. Government, maybe $7 billion.