On Sat, 28 Nov 2020 07:58:25 -0500, John wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 14:59:12 -0500, Wayne B
wrote:

Signatures needed on petition to evaluate and stabilize the Arecibo
radio telescope: "We urge emergency action to have the Army Corps of
Engineers or another agency evaluate the telescope structure and
search for a safe way to stabilize it," reads the petition to the
White House, which had more than 28,000 signatures as of Friday.
Space.com notes if the petition gets 100,000 signees by Dec. 21, the
White House has to respond within two months. Jenniffer Gonzalez,
Puerto Rico's resident commissioner, is also taking action, sending a
letter to Congress last week to request funds to make repairs. The NSF
maintains the structure is beyond safe renovation. "We understand the
risk of going there and trying to fix it," Wilbert Ruperto-Hernandez,
one of the organizers of the "Save the Arecibo Observatory" campaign,
tells Space.com. "But not many people think that it should be an
excuse to just demolish it."

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/petition-emergency-action-evaluate-and-stabilize-arecibo-radio-telescope

A little more info: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03270-9

===

Good article, thanks.

On 11/28/20 7:50 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 11/27/20 10:51 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 19:26:21 -0500, Wayne B
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 18:09:45 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 14:59:12 -0500, Wayne B
wrote:

Signatures needed on petition to evaluate and stabilize the Arecibo
radio telescope: "We urge emergency action to have the Army Corps of
Engineers or another agency evaluate the telescope structure and
search for a safe way to stabilize it," reads the petition to the
White House, which had more than 28,000 signatures as of Friday.
Space.com notes if the petition gets 100,000 signees by Dec. 21, the
White House has to respond within two months. Jenniffer Gonzalez,
Puerto Rico's resident commissioner, is also taking action, sending a
letter to Congress last week to request funds to make repairs. The NSF
maintains the structure is beyond safe renovation. "We understand the
risk of going there and trying to fix it," Wilbert Ruperto-Hernandez,
one of the organizers of the "Save the Arecibo Observatory" campaign,
tells Space.com. "But not many people think that it should be an
excuse to just demolish it."

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/petition-emergency-action-evaluate-and-stabilize-arecibo-radio-telescope

You might have to try to get Elon Musk or Bill Gates to cough up
$50-100 million. I doubt the government is going to do it.
Since this is an international resource, where are the scientists from
other countries who used it?

===

I know nothing about the finances or international aspects. It just
seems like a unique resource that is worth preserving. I was working
on the technical staff in a research lab at Cornell University back in
the 60s when the whole thing was coming online. In the middle of an
upstate NY winter, most of us thought Puerto Rico would be a nice gig
to have.

It's unfortunate that so many jump to politicize the situation. More
information he

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_Observatory

I have been reading a little about this and the consensus is, most of
the infrastructure is EOL. Salt air and other ravages from the
environment has damaged this so badly they might be better off
salvaging anything they can and starting over. It might end up being
pretty much rebuilding from scratch. They won't have any military
connection this time and no DoD money so this might actually be best
done by a consortium of private companies. To put it in perspective,
if they could raise just 10% of what we spent on this last election
(~$1.4 BILLION) they could build a 21st century replacement for a mid
20th century complex with far more capabilities.


I agree a new system is a better solution than repairing an out of date
system, but it should be built by the government as a government
facility using private sector subcontractors. This is the sort of
facility that should be used for the public good. Let's not turn it into
a damned toll road that profits private enterprise at the expense of the
public.

Public good, Liberals code word for Gubmint wants control over everything.
You don't have skinning the game anyway. Deadbeat.

--
Don't Forget Ukraine. Don't Trust Joe.

On Sat, 28 Nov 2020 07:50:02 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/27/20 10:51 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 19:26:21 -0500, Wayne B
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 18:09:45 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 14:59:12 -0500, Wayne B
wrote:

Signatures needed on petition to evaluate and stabilize the Arecibo
radio telescope: "We urge emergency action to have the Army Corps of
Engineers or another agency evaluate the telescope structure and
search for a safe way to stabilize it," reads the petition to the
White House, which had more than 28,000 signatures as of Friday.
Space.com notes if the petition gets 100,000 signees by Dec. 21, the
White House has to respond within two months. Jenniffer Gonzalez,
Puerto Rico's resident commissioner, is also taking action, sending a
letter to Congress last week to request funds to make repairs. The NSF
maintains the structure is beyond safe renovation. "We understand the
risk of going there and trying to fix it," Wilbert Ruperto-Hernandez,
one of the organizers of the "Save the Arecibo Observatory" campaign,
tells Space.com. "But not many people think that it should be an
excuse to just demolish it."

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/petition-emergency-action-evaluate-and-stabilize-arecibo-radio-telescope

You might have to try to get Elon Musk or Bill Gates to cough up
$50-100 million. I doubt the government is going to do it.
Since this is an international resource, where are the scientists from
other countries who used it?

===

I know nothing about the finances or international aspects. It just
seems like a unique resource that is worth preserving. I was working
on the technical staff in a research lab at Cornell University back in
the 60s when the whole thing was coming online. In the middle of an
upstate NY winter, most of us thought Puerto Rico would be a nice gig
to have.

It's unfortunate that so many jump to politicize the situation. More
information he

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_Observatory

I have been reading a little about this and the consensus is, most of
the infrastructure is EOL. Salt air and other ravages from the
environment has damaged this so badly they might be better off
salvaging anything they can and starting over. It might end up being
pretty much rebuilding from scratch. They won't have any military
connection this time and no DoD money so this might actually be best
done by a consortium of private companies. To put it in perspective,
if they could raise just 10% of what we spent on this last election
(~$1.4 BILLION) they could build a 21st century replacement for a mid
20th century complex with far more capabilities.


I agree a new system is a better solution than repairing an out of date
system, but it should be built by the government as a government
facility using private sector subcontractors. This is the sort of
facility that should be used for the public good. Let's not turn it into
a damned toll road that profits private enterprise at the expense of the
public.

If this was a private enterprise they would have maintained it better,
upgrading it over the years and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

BTW who is taking astronauts into space these days? It isn't NASA, it
is Elon Musk with the reusable rocket NASA never could quite figure
out.

On 11/28/20 12:56 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 28 Nov 2020 07:50:02 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/27/20 10:51 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 19:26:21 -0500, Wayne B
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 18:09:45 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 14:59:12 -0500, Wayne B
wrote:

Signatures needed on petition to evaluate and stabilize the Arecibo
radio telescope: "We urge emergency action to have the Army Corps of
Engineers or another agency evaluate the telescope structure and
search for a safe way to stabilize it," reads the petition to the
White House, which had more than 28,000 signatures as of Friday.
Space.com notes if the petition gets 100,000 signees by Dec. 21, the
White House has to respond within two months. Jenniffer Gonzalez,
Puerto Rico's resident commissioner, is also taking action, sending a
letter to Congress last week to request funds to make repairs. The NSF
maintains the structure is beyond safe renovation. "We understand the
risk of going there and trying to fix it," Wilbert Ruperto-Hernandez,
one of the organizers of the "Save the Arecibo Observatory" campaign,
tells Space.com. "But not many people think that it should be an
excuse to just demolish it."

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/petition-emergency-action-evaluate-and-stabilize-arecibo-radio-telescope

You might have to try to get Elon Musk or Bill Gates to cough up
$50-100 million. I doubt the government is going to do it.
Since this is an international resource, where are the scientists from
other countries who used it?

===

I know nothing about the finances or international aspects. It just
seems like a unique resource that is worth preserving. I was working
on the technical staff in a research lab at Cornell University back in
the 60s when the whole thing was coming online. In the middle of an
upstate NY winter, most of us thought Puerto Rico would be a nice gig
to have.

It's unfortunate that so many jump to politicize the situation. More
information he

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_Observatory

I have been reading a little about this and the consensus is, most of
the infrastructure is EOL. Salt air and other ravages from the
environment has damaged this so badly they might be better off
salvaging anything they can and starting over. It might end up being
pretty much rebuilding from scratch. They won't have any military
connection this time and no DoD money so this might actually be best
done by a consortium of private companies. To put it in perspective,
if they could raise just 10% of what we spent on this last election
(~$1.4 BILLION) they could build a 21st century replacement for a mid
20th century complex with far more capabilities.


I agree a new system is a better solution than repairing an out of date
system, but it should be built by the government as a government
facility using private sector subcontractors. This is the sort of
facility that should be used for the public good. Let's not turn it into
a damned toll road that profits private enterprise at the expense of the
public.

If this was a private enterprise they would have maintained it better,
upgrading it over the years and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

BTW who is taking astronauts into space these days? It isn't NASA, it
is Elon Musk with the reusable rocket NASA never could quite figure
out.

Fat Harry, like all democrats, is a big gubmint guy. And like many low level
lemmings is a deadbeat who knows how to spend OPM.

--
Don't Forget Ukraine. Don't Trust Joe.

On 11/28/20 7:50 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 11/27/20 10:51 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 19:26:21 -0500, Wayne B
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 18:09:45 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 14:59:12 -0500, Wayne B
wrote:

Signatures needed on petition to evaluate and stabilize the Arecibo
radio telescope: "We urge emergency action to have the Army Corps of
Engineers or another agency evaluate the telescope structure and
search for a safe way to stabilize it," reads the petition to the
White House, which had more than 28,000 signatures as of Friday.
Space.com notes if the petition gets 100,000 signees by Dec. 21, the
White House has to respond within two months. Jenniffer Gonzalez,
Puerto Rico's resident commissioner, is also taking action, sending a
letter to Congress last week to request funds to make repairs. The NSF
maintains the structure is beyond safe renovation. "We understand the
risk of going there and trying to fix it," Wilbert Ruperto-Hernandez,
one of the organizers of the "Save the Arecibo Observatory" campaign,
tells Space.com. "But not many people think that it should be an
excuse to just demolish it."

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/petition-emergency-action-evaluate-and-stabilize-arecibo-radio-telescope

You might have to try to get Elon Musk or Bill Gates to cough up
$50-100 million. I doubt the government is going to do it.
Since this is an international resource, where are the scientists from
other countries who used it?

===

I know nothing about the finances or international aspects. It just
seems like a unique resource that is worth preserving. I was working
on the technical staff in a research lab at Cornell University back in
the 60s when the whole thing was coming online. In the middle of an
upstate NY winter, most of us thought Puerto Rico would be a nice gig
to have.

It's unfortunate that so many jump to politicize the situation. More
information he

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_Observatory

I have been reading a little about this and the consensus is, most of
the infrastructure is EOL. Salt air and other ravages from the
environment has damaged this so badly they might be better off
salvaging anything they can and starting over. It might end up being
pretty much rebuilding from scratch. They won't have any military
connection this time and no DoD money so this might actually be best
done by a consortium of private companies. To put it in perspective,
if they could raise just 10% of what we spent on this last election
(~$1.4 BILLION) they could build a 21st century replacement for a mid
20th century complex with far more capabilities.


I agree a new system is a better solution than repairing an out of date
system, but it should be built by the government as a government
facility using private sector subcontractors. This is the sort of
facility that should be used for the public good. Let's not turn it into
a damned toll road that profits private enterprise at the expense of the
public.

Gubmint don't know how to build anything efficiently.
--
Don't Forget Ukraine. Don't Trust Joe.

On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 2:59:18 PM UTC-5, Wayne B wrote:
Signatures needed on petition to evaluate and stabilize the Arecibo
radio telescope: "We urge emergency action to have the Army Corps of
Engineers or another agency evaluate the telescope structure and
search for a safe way to stabilize it," reads the petition to the
White House, which had more than 28,000 signatures as of Friday.
Space.com notes if the petition gets 100,000 signees by Dec. 21, the
White House has to respond within two months. Jenniffer Gonzalez,
Puerto Rico's resident commissioner, is also taking action, sending a
letter to Congress last week to request funds to make repairs. The NSF
maintains the structure is beyond safe renovation. "We understand the
risk of going there and trying to fix it," Wilbert Ruperto-Hernandez,
one of the organizers of the "Save the Arecibo Observatory" campaign,
tells Space.com. "But not many people think that it should be an
excuse to just demolish it."

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/petition-emergency-action-evaluate-and-stabilize-arecibo-radio-telescope

And just like that, now it's gone...

"SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico—A huge, already damaged radio telescope in Puerto Rico that has played a key role in astronomical discoveries for more than half a century completely collapsed on Tuesday.

The telescope's 900-ton receiver platform fell onto the reflector dish more than 400 feet below."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/huge-loss-huge-puerto-rico-radio-telescope-arecibo-collapses-following-n1249515

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 07:05:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 2:59:18 PM UTC-5, Wayne B wrote:
Signatures needed on petition to evaluate and stabilize the Arecibo
radio telescope: "We urge emergency action to have the Army Corps of
Engineers or another agency evaluate the telescope structure and
search for a safe way to stabilize it," reads the petition to the
White House, which had more than 28,000 signatures as of Friday.
Space.com notes if the petition gets 100,000 signees by Dec. 21, the
White House has to respond within two months. Jenniffer Gonzalez,
Puerto Rico's resident commissioner, is also taking action, sending a
letter to Congress last week to request funds to make repairs. The NSF
maintains the structure is beyond safe renovation. "We understand the
risk of going there and trying to fix it," Wilbert Ruperto-Hernandez,
one of the organizers of the "Save the Arecibo Observatory" campaign,
tells Space.com. "But not many people think that it should be an
excuse to just demolish it."

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/petition-emergency-action-evaluate-and-stabilize-arecibo-radio-telescope

And just like that, now it's gone...

"SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico—A huge, already damaged radio telescope in Puerto Rico that has played a key role in astronomical discoveries for more than half a century completely collapsed on Tuesday.

The telescope's 900-ton receiver platform fell onto the reflector dish more than 400 feet below."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/huge-loss-huge-puerto-rico-radio-telescope-arecibo-collapses-following-n1249515

===

That's too bad. It would now take a huge amount of money and effort
to rebuild it. Chances are probably slim to none unless a wealthy
benefactor steps up to the plate. I had always hoped to see it in
person.

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 07:05:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 2:59:18 PM UTC-5, Wayne B wrote:
Signatures needed on petition to evaluate and stabilize the Arecibo
radio telescope: "We urge emergency action to have the Army Corps of
Engineers or another agency evaluate the telescope structure and
search for a safe way to stabilize it," reads the petition to the
White House, which had more than 28,000 signatures as of Friday.
Space.com notes if the petition gets 100,000 signees by Dec. 21, the
White House has to respond within two months. Jenniffer Gonzalez,
Puerto Rico's resident commissioner, is also taking action, sending a
letter to Congress last week to request funds to make repairs. The NSF
maintains the structure is beyond safe renovation. "We understand the
risk of going there and trying to fix it," Wilbert Ruperto-Hernandez,
one of the organizers of the "Save the Arecibo Observatory" campaign,
tells Space.com. "But not many people think that it should be an
excuse to just demolish it."

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/petition-emergency-action-evaluate-and-stabilize-arecibo-radio-telescope

And just like that, now it's gone...

"SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico—A huge, already damaged radio telescope in Puerto Rico that has played a key role in astronomical discoveries for more than half a century completely collapsed on Tuesday.

The telescope's 900-ton receiver platform fell onto the reflector dish more than 400 feet below."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/huge-loss-huge-puerto-rico-radio-telescope-arecibo-collapses-following-n1249515

I reckon that solves that problem. Glad no one was hurt.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

John wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 07:05:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 2:59:18 PM UTC-5, Wayne B wrote:
Signatures needed on petition to evaluate and stabilize the Arecibo
radio telescope: "We urge emergency action to have the Army Corps of
Engineers or another agency evaluate the telescope structure and
search for a safe way to stabilize it," reads the petition to the
White House, which had more than 28,000 signatures as of Friday.
Space.com notes if the petition gets 100,000 signees by Dec. 21, the
White House has to respond within two months. Jenniffer Gonzalez,
Puerto Rico's resident commissioner, is also taking action, sending a
letter to Congress last week to request funds to make repairs. The NSF
maintains the structure is beyond safe renovation. "We understand the
risk of going there and trying to fix it," Wilbert Ruperto-Hernandez,
one of the organizers of the "Save the Arecibo Observatory" campaign,
tells Space.com. "But not many people think that it should be an
excuse to just demolish it."

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/petition-emergency-action-evaluate-and-stabilize-arecibo-radio-telescope

And just like that, now it's gone...

"SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico—A huge, already damaged radio telescope in Puerto
Rico that has played a key role in astronomical discoveries for more
than half a century completely collapsed on Tuesday.

The telescope's 900-ton receiver platform fell onto the reflector dish
more than 400 feet below."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/huge-loss-huge-puerto-rico-radio-telescope-arecibo-collapses-following-n1249515

I reckon that solves that problem. Glad no one was hurt.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!


With the lack of maintenance, I hope whomever was in charge does not get
another management position.

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 20:09:30 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 07:05:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 2:59:18 PM UTC-5, Wayne B wrote:
Signatures needed on petition to evaluate and stabilize the Arecibo
radio telescope: "We urge emergency action to have the Army Corps of
Engineers or another agency evaluate the telescope structure and
search for a safe way to stabilize it," reads the petition to the
White House, which had more than 28,000 signatures as of Friday.
Space.com notes if the petition gets 100,000 signees by Dec. 21, the
White House has to respond within two months. Jenniffer Gonzalez,
Puerto Rico's resident commissioner, is also taking action, sending a
letter to Congress last week to request funds to make repairs. The NSF
maintains the structure is beyond safe renovation. "We understand the
risk of going there and trying to fix it," Wilbert Ruperto-Hernandez,
one of the organizers of the "Save the Arecibo Observatory" campaign,
tells Space.com. "But not many people think that it should be an
excuse to just demolish it."

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/petition-emergency-action-evaluate-and-stabilize-arecibo-radio-telescope

And just like that, now it's gone...

"SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico?A huge, already damaged radio telescope in Puerto
Rico that has played a key role in astronomical discoveries for more
than half a century completely collapsed on Tuesday.

The telescope's 900-ton receiver platform fell onto the reflector dish
more than 400 feet below."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/huge-loss-huge-puerto-rico-radio-telescope-arecibo-collapses-following-n1249515

I reckon that solves that problem. Glad no one was hurt.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!


With the lack of maintenance, I hope whomever was in charge does not get
another management position.

===

I agree but it's possible there was a funding issue. NSF facilities
are constantly struggling for budget dollars. There are newer radio
telescopes that have come online since Arecibo was built and they
might have had a higher funding priority.