On 4/13/2020 10:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 20:05:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/13/2020 7:37 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:12:14 -0400, John wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:27:24 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 07:44:41 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:55:47 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:32:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:06:45 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 07:14:11 -0400, John wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 21:57:54 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...ature=youtu.be

Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out
to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.


Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you are, eh?

He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The
"facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was
a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in
the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a
day.


Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it.

Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600%
in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely
that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to
recommending them for anyone in public.
Those are politically knee jerks, not science.
Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most
hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know
I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag"
on his face.

You are sounding much like CNN. There was a very high, non-mitigation estimate,
and a much lower estimate with mitigation. As Spain and Italy were used as
inputs, the output was high. Adjustments have been made based upon actual US
data and we see the result.

Of course, you knew that.

I knew that the demographic and geography made them bad models if that
is what you mean.

As it turns out, you were correct. But so were they when they modified the
model. You start with what you have.


I've seen no recommendations for surgeons to wear home made facemasks. The
purpose of the facemask for the public is to contain the virus if one is a
carrier. A cloth mask, although not perfect, is much better than no mask. Common
sense says that.

The thing that is flawed is it makes the mask wearer much more likely
to be infected unless they follow a far stricter protocol than simply
stuffing the rag in their pocket between wearings. It becomes a very
effective vector for the virus.
Fauci and the experts used to say that

In this case, the purpose of the public wearing the mask is so carriers will not
spread the virus as much. The wearer of the mask is not the one being protected,
although there may be some little protection.

It is still more of a feel good gesture than a real panacea unless the
public gets a whole lot better at the protocols than the girl on the
news. She was wearing a mask and gloves and within an hour she was
coated with the U/V powder used to simulate germs. She was leaving a
trail behind her along with being infected herself.
I did learn one thing. Washing your hands is only half of it. Wash
your face too. This girl had contamination on her face could quickly
be spread to her sinuses after she had washed her hands and taken off
the mask.
If you are serious about this, you almost need to be using "clean
room" protocols.

OTOH at my age, I am not supposed to be infected asymptomatically. It
is supposed to knock my dick in the dirt right away ... if you can
believe what you hear.

Again, you missed the point. Wearing the mask is to protect others, not
yourself.

She should have started with a mouthfull of the powder and blown it through the
mask.

If this is just an old T shirt, plenty would have come through. There
would certainly be enough to contaminate the entire mask, inside and
out..Corona virus is smaller than 0.3 micron.

Since most of the infection is hand to mouth, simply having it on her
hands is plenty to spread the infection and handling a dirty mask all
day will do that.
Gloves are even dumber. If the gloves are infected, so is everything
you touch. The virus may live on the glove longer than it would have
on your bare hand. (impervious surface).
Again, in a truly sterile hospital setting, the glove is used once,
carefully removed and thrown away. People are shoving their dirty
gloves in the same pocket as their dirty mask.
These are just things people are doing to think they are doing
something good and in most cases it is exactly the opposite.

I have yet to see anyone do that. Do you see a lot of that where you live? It
wouldn't take a lot of common sense to dispose of the gloves properly.



Are you saying people are only using masks and gloves once and
throwing them away up there?
That does not seem to be what I see. They pull them off and shove them
in their pocket when they get to the car.
I have trouble not breaking out laughing when I watch what people are
doing.


People are trying Greg.

Maybe instead of laughing at them you should instruct them as to
their proper use.

Or maybe you shouldn't. With patience and tempers so short
now-a-days, you may not get the reception you expected.



Those are exactly the people I am giving a wide berth. I think they
are more likely to be infected than those who are just washing their
hands ... and face, often.
I am surprised nobody says that about your face but after watching the
news girl, I saw how easy it is to contaminate your cheeks or
forehead, then some time later, after you scrubbed your hands, to
smear that contamination down to your nose and mouth.

I do notice the folks here are pretty good about keeping their
distance. I was at Walmart today, a place I want to wash my hands
after being at on a good day. People were stopping and waiting for the
aisles to open up before they went in and we stayed pretty spread out.
They have cleared the promo items that usually clog the aisles.
They did have almost everything people are supposed to be out of,
including an almost normal looking stock of paper products. I got my
BIL an 18 pack of some kind of "soft cloud" sort of TP and it turned
out he had already scored at his Walmart. My FIL has it now.
They also had eggs and other stuff that was supposed to be gone but no
anti bacterial soap or hand sanitizer.
Everyone has stopped rationing bottled water too. I picked up a couple
gallons because right in the middle of all of this my R/O decided to
get stingy. It is barely making enough water for ice. I have a new
element coming on Prime. I threw the filters at it already and no joy
so I am guessing the membrane is plugged.
It is a year and a half old tho.



Most of the larger stores up here are restricting how many people
can enter at a time. My sister in law went to Walmart today
and she said there was a line outside ... with people spaced at
least 6 feet apart, waiting to enter. As a person left the
store another was allowed to go in.




--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 23:41:10 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/13/2020 10:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 20:05:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/13/2020 7:37 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:12:14 -0400, John wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:27:24 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 07:44:41 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:55:47 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:32:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:06:45 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 07:14:11 -0400, John wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 21:57:54 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...ature=youtu.be

Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out
to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.


Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you are, eh?

He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The
"facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was
a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in
the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a
day.


Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it.

Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600%
in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely
that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to
recommending them for anyone in public.
Those are politically knee jerks, not science.
Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most
hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know
I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag"
on his face.

You are sounding much like CNN. There was a very high, non-mitigation estimate,
and a much lower estimate with mitigation. As Spain and Italy were used as
inputs, the output was high. Adjustments have been made based upon actual US
data and we see the result.

Of course, you knew that.

I knew that the demographic and geography made them bad models if that
is what you mean.

As it turns out, you were correct. But so were they when they modified the
model. You start with what you have.


I've seen no recommendations for surgeons to wear home made facemasks. The
purpose of the facemask for the public is to contain the virus if one is a
carrier. A cloth mask, although not perfect, is much better than no mask. Common
sense says that.

The thing that is flawed is it makes the mask wearer much more likely
to be infected unless they follow a far stricter protocol than simply
stuffing the rag in their pocket between wearings. It becomes a very
effective vector for the virus.
Fauci and the experts used to say that

In this case, the purpose of the public wearing the mask is so carriers will not
spread the virus as much. The wearer of the mask is not the one being protected,
although there may be some little protection.

It is still more of a feel good gesture than a real panacea unless the
public gets a whole lot better at the protocols than the girl on the
news. She was wearing a mask and gloves and within an hour she was
coated with the U/V powder used to simulate germs. She was leaving a
trail behind her along with being infected herself.
I did learn one thing. Washing your hands is only half of it. Wash
your face too. This girl had contamination on her face could quickly
be spread to her sinuses after she had washed her hands and taken off
the mask.
If you are serious about this, you almost need to be using "clean
room" protocols.

OTOH at my age, I am not supposed to be infected asymptomatically. It
is supposed to knock my dick in the dirt right away ... if you can
believe what you hear.

Again, you missed the point. Wearing the mask is to protect others, not
yourself.

She should have started with a mouthfull of the powder and blown it through the
mask.

If this is just an old T shirt, plenty would have come through. There
would certainly be enough to contaminate the entire mask, inside and
out..Corona virus is smaller than 0.3 micron.

Since most of the infection is hand to mouth, simply having it on her
hands is plenty to spread the infection and handling a dirty mask all
day will do that.
Gloves are even dumber. If the gloves are infected, so is everything
you touch. The virus may live on the glove longer than it would have
on your bare hand. (impervious surface).
Again, in a truly sterile hospital setting, the glove is used once,
carefully removed and thrown away. People are shoving their dirty
gloves in the same pocket as their dirty mask.
These are just things people are doing to think they are doing
something good and in most cases it is exactly the opposite.

I have yet to see anyone do that. Do you see a lot of that where you live? It
wouldn't take a lot of common sense to dispose of the gloves properly.



Are you saying people are only using masks and gloves once and
throwing them away up there?
That does not seem to be what I see. They pull them off and shove them
in their pocket when they get to the car.
I have trouble not breaking out laughing when I watch what people are
doing.


People are trying Greg.

Maybe instead of laughing at them you should instruct them as to
their proper use.

Or maybe you shouldn't. With patience and tempers so short
now-a-days, you may not get the reception you expected.



Those are exactly the people I am giving a wide berth. I think they
are more likely to be infected than those who are just washing their
hands ... and face, often.
I am surprised nobody says that about your face but after watching the
news girl, I saw how easy it is to contaminate your cheeks or
forehead, then some time later, after you scrubbed your hands, to
smear that contamination down to your nose and mouth.

I do notice the folks here are pretty good about keeping their
distance. I was at Walmart today, a place I want to wash my hands
after being at on a good day. People were stopping and waiting for the
aisles to open up before they went in and we stayed pretty spread out.
They have cleared the promo items that usually clog the aisles.
They did have almost everything people are supposed to be out of,
including an almost normal looking stock of paper products. I got my
BIL an 18 pack of some kind of "soft cloud" sort of TP and it turned
out he had already scored at his Walmart. My FIL has it now.
They also had eggs and other stuff that was supposed to be gone but no
anti bacterial soap or hand sanitizer.
Everyone has stopped rationing bottled water too. I picked up a couple
gallons because right in the middle of all of this my R/O decided to
get stingy. It is barely making enough water for ice. I have a new
element coming on Prime. I threw the filters at it already and no joy
so I am guessing the membrane is plugged.
It is a year and a half old tho.



Most of the larger stores up here are restricting how many people
can enter at a time. My sister in law went to Walmart today
and she said there was a line outside ... with people spaced at
least 6 feet apart, waiting to enter. As a person left the
store another was allowed to go in.


They are set up for that but I guess they decided it wasn't too
crowded because the doors were both open. (each end of the building) .
The last time I was there they only had one door open and they did
seem to be monitoring how many people were there. It must have been OK
because I went right in.
I have to go to Costco next. I am curious how that is going to go. If
it is too busy, Deuce might have to get used to a different dog food.
I really don't want to do it. I am going to see if I can just order
and pick up.

On 4/14/2020 1:19 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 23:41:10 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/13/2020 10:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 20:05:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/13/2020 7:37 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:12:14 -0400, John wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:27:24 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 07:44:41 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:55:47 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:32:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:06:45 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 07:14:11 -0400, John wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 21:57:54 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...ature=youtu.be

Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out
to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.


Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you are, eh?

He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The
"facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was
a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in
the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a
day.


Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it.

Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600%
in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely
that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to
recommending them for anyone in public.
Those are politically knee jerks, not science.
Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most
hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know
I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag"
on his face.

You are sounding much like CNN. There was a very high, non-mitigation estimate,
and a much lower estimate with mitigation. As Spain and Italy were used as
inputs, the output was high. Adjustments have been made based upon actual US
data and we see the result.

Of course, you knew that.

I knew that the demographic and geography made them bad models if that
is what you mean.

As it turns out, you were correct. But so were they when they modified the
model. You start with what you have.


I've seen no recommendations for surgeons to wear home made facemasks. The
purpose of the facemask for the public is to contain the virus if one is a
carrier. A cloth mask, although not perfect, is much better than no mask. Common
sense says that.

The thing that is flawed is it makes the mask wearer much more likely
to be infected unless they follow a far stricter protocol than simply
stuffing the rag in their pocket between wearings. It becomes a very
effective vector for the virus.
Fauci and the experts used to say that

In this case, the purpose of the public wearing the mask is so carriers will not
spread the virus as much. The wearer of the mask is not the one being protected,
although there may be some little protection.

It is still more of a feel good gesture than a real panacea unless the
public gets a whole lot better at the protocols than the girl on the
news. She was wearing a mask and gloves and within an hour she was
coated with the U/V powder used to simulate germs. She was leaving a
trail behind her along with being infected herself.
I did learn one thing. Washing your hands is only half of it. Wash
your face too. This girl had contamination on her face could quickly
be spread to her sinuses after she had washed her hands and taken off
the mask.
If you are serious about this, you almost need to be using "clean
room" protocols.

OTOH at my age, I am not supposed to be infected asymptomatically. It
is supposed to knock my dick in the dirt right away ... if you can
believe what you hear.

Again, you missed the point. Wearing the mask is to protect others, not
yourself.

She should have started with a mouthfull of the powder and blown it through the
mask.

If this is just an old T shirt, plenty would have come through. There
would certainly be enough to contaminate the entire mask, inside and
out..Corona virus is smaller than 0.3 micron.

Since most of the infection is hand to mouth, simply having it on her
hands is plenty to spread the infection and handling a dirty mask all
day will do that.
Gloves are even dumber. If the gloves are infected, so is everything
you touch. The virus may live on the glove longer than it would have
on your bare hand. (impervious surface).
Again, in a truly sterile hospital setting, the glove is used once,
carefully removed and thrown away. People are shoving their dirty
gloves in the same pocket as their dirty mask.
These are just things people are doing to think they are doing
something good and in most cases it is exactly the opposite.

I have yet to see anyone do that. Do you see a lot of that where you live? It
wouldn't take a lot of common sense to dispose of the gloves properly.



Are you saying people are only using masks and gloves once and
throwing them away up there?
That does not seem to be what I see. They pull them off and shove them
in their pocket when they get to the car.
I have trouble not breaking out laughing when I watch what people are
doing.


People are trying Greg.

Maybe instead of laughing at them you should instruct them as to
their proper use.

Or maybe you shouldn't. With patience and tempers so short
now-a-days, you may not get the reception you expected.



Those are exactly the people I am giving a wide berth. I think they
are more likely to be infected than those who are just washing their
hands ... and face, often.
I am surprised nobody says that about your face but after watching the
news girl, I saw how easy it is to contaminate your cheeks or
forehead, then some time later, after you scrubbed your hands, to
smear that contamination down to your nose and mouth.

I do notice the folks here are pretty good about keeping their
distance. I was at Walmart today, a place I want to wash my hands
after being at on a good day. People were stopping and waiting for the
aisles to open up before they went in and we stayed pretty spread out.
They have cleared the promo items that usually clog the aisles.
They did have almost everything people are supposed to be out of,
including an almost normal looking stock of paper products. I got my
BIL an 18 pack of some kind of "soft cloud" sort of TP and it turned
out he had already scored at his Walmart. My FIL has it now.
They also had eggs and other stuff that was supposed to be gone but no
anti bacterial soap or hand sanitizer.
Everyone has stopped rationing bottled water too. I picked up a couple
gallons because right in the middle of all of this my R/O decided to
get stingy. It is barely making enough water for ice. I have a new
element coming on Prime. I threw the filters at it already and no joy
so I am guessing the membrane is plugged.
It is a year and a half old tho.



Most of the larger stores up here are restricting how many people
can enter at a time. My sister in law went to Walmart today
and she said there was a line outside ... with people spaced at
least 6 feet apart, waiting to enter. As a person left the
store another was allowed to go in.


They are set up for that but I guess they decided it wasn't too
crowded because the doors were both open. (each end of the building) .
The last time I was there they only had one door open and they did
seem to be monitoring how many people were there. It must have been OK
because I went right in.
I have to go to Costco next. I am curious how that is going to go. If
it is too busy, Deuce might have to get used to a different dog food.
I really don't want to do it. I am going to see if I can just order
and pick up.



The situation here in Massachusetts is a little more critical than
apparently you are experiencing in Florida. The slope of increases
in confirmed cases continues at the same rate, probably due to more
testing being done but also due to the general spread of the virus.

I thought for a while that the area we live in would be somewhat
isolated because it's in a rural area, well south of Boston and
any other highly populated towns or cities. But it still has
increased rapidly with no slowdown yet apparent. Doesn't take
much when one infected person can pass it on to 2,3 or more others
and each of them they pass it on to 2,3 or more others.

There is a farmer's market up here that takes orders over
the phone and deliver on Thursdays to seniors. My wife has been
ordering fresh fruit, vegetables, citrus plus they have some
chicken, steaks and turkey tips (which are very good). Been
doing that for the past 4 weeks so we don't have to visit any
of the major supermarkets. Essentials like milk, bread, etc.
we can get at a local convenience store.

I am actually eating better now than when this whole thing
started.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On 4/14/20 7:26 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/14/2020 1:19 AM, wrote:


The situation here in Massachusetts is a little more critical than
apparently you are experiencing in Florida.Â* The slope of increases
in confirmed cases continues at the same rate, probably due to more
testing being done but also due to the general spread of the virus.

I thought for a while that the area we live in would be somewhat
isolated because it's in a rural area, well south of Boston and
any other highly populated towns or cities.Â* But it still has
increased rapidly with no slowdown yet apparent.Â* Doesn't take
much when one infected person can pass it on to 2,3 or more others
and each of them they pass it on to 2,3 or more others.

As of last night, we have fewer than 100 diagnosed cases of COVID-19 in
our semi-rural county, one of the lowest numbers in our state. I hope it
stays that way. Almost everyone seems to be wearing some sort of mask
when they go out. We do, and we each carry small bottles of Purell and a
pack of paper towels when we go out. We spray our hands repeatedly,
spray doorknobs and market carts before we touch them, stay as far away
from other people as we can, et cetera. We only go out every three or
four days, and usually it is just one of us.

Without getting into the particulars, I was alarmed yesterday by what
little of Trump's nightly re-election presentation I saw, and not by
"the facts" he was presenting. I don't know how any rational person can
still believe Trump is the sort of person we need in our nation's
highest political office.






--
For the survival of this country, it is vitally important for all of us
to successfully associate the substantial harm wreaked by COVID-19 with
Trump and thereby defeat him in the fall election.