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#2
posted to rec.boats
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General Motors
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 07:21:59 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 3/28/2020 11:08 PM, wrote: On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 19:56:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/27/2020 7:35 PM, Tim wrote: Mr. Luddite - show quoted text - Take a chill pill. Or maybe you've already taken too many? First of all, it's not like GM or Ford or Tesla has to start from scratch. The POTUS under the Defense Production Act can order the design drawings, manufacturing procedures, bills of material with sources from any current manufacturer to be given to GM, Ford or Tesla. What the auto manufacturers bring to the table is manufacturing capacity. Second, I am surprised to see you dumping on the Donald in this case. It was GM (big business, remember?) who was trying to extort and take advantage of a national crisis. “ - show quoted text - I’m surprised that someone like Toyota or Honda hasn’t already put them into production. Or the people who make CPAC machines for that matter Toyota or Honda could probably do it but I am not sure they fall under the Defense Production Act. Maybe the US plants do. The key isn't a need to re-invent the wheel. The key is manufacturing capacity and space to do it, something the auto manufacturers have. You may not need to reinvent the wheel but you can certainly make stamped steel wheels and not those gold plated things that cost $30,000 and do far more than you really need. I would simply fall back to the difference between a M1928 (Al Capone) Thompson SMG and the stamped steel M3 Grease Gun. Certainly the Thompson is prettier and has more features but when you just want to throw lead at the bad guy, an M3 is all you need. All we are trying to do is help someone get air in their lungs and back out. In reality that is all a CPAP machine is too. Tim is right. Similar function and technology. I saw a doctor being asked if a CPAP machine could be modified for use as a ventilator. Answer was "No". Also saw another doc who is currently working in a hospital in NYC. He explained the protocols and steps taken when a person is admitted with covid-19 and has difficulty breathing. They are not put on a ventilator initially. They start with a oxygen face mask. If the patient responds well, that's all they do. Often though, the patient will initially seem to do better but then deteriorate. At that point they use another type of oxygen delivery system that is under pressure. If that fails, they go to another oxygen system that I can't remember how it differs, but somehow it's a 'high delivery" system. If that fails the patient is then put on a ventilator. The doc said the ventilator is used when all else has failed and is used as a last resort. I still haven't heard what the survival rate is when measures go that far. I suppose the CPAP just does not provide the delivery pressure to inflate a lung. I have seen one, my IBM buddy has one now but I never really paid that much attention to it. |
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#3
posted to rec.boats
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General Motors
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:04:49 -0400, wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 07:21:59 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/28/2020 11:08 PM, wrote: On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 19:56:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/27/2020 7:35 PM, Tim wrote: Mr. Luddite - show quoted text - Take a chill pill. Or maybe you've already taken too many? First of all, it's not like GM or Ford or Tesla has to start from scratch. The POTUS under the Defense Production Act can order the design drawings, manufacturing procedures, bills of material with sources from any current manufacturer to be given to GM, Ford or Tesla. What the auto manufacturers bring to the table is manufacturing capacity. Second, I am surprised to see you dumping on the Donald in this case. It was GM (big business, remember?) who was trying to extort and take advantage of a national crisis. “ - show quoted text - I’m surprised that someone like Toyota or Honda hasn’t already put them into production. Or the people who make CPAC machines for that matter Toyota or Honda could probably do it but I am not sure they fall under the Defense Production Act. Maybe the US plants do. The key isn't a need to re-invent the wheel. The key is manufacturing capacity and space to do it, something the auto manufacturers have. You may not need to reinvent the wheel but you can certainly make stamped steel wheels and not those gold plated things that cost $30,000 and do far more than you really need. I would simply fall back to the difference between a M1928 (Al Capone) Thompson SMG and the stamped steel M3 Grease Gun. Certainly the Thompson is prettier and has more features but when you just want to throw lead at the bad guy, an M3 is all you need. All we are trying to do is help someone get air in their lungs and back out. In reality that is all a CPAP machine is too. Tim is right. Similar function and technology. I saw a doctor being asked if a CPAP machine could be modified for use as a ventilator. Answer was "No". Also saw another doc who is currently working in a hospital in NYC. He explained the protocols and steps taken when a person is admitted with covid-19 and has difficulty breathing. They are not put on a ventilator initially. They start with a oxygen face mask. If the patient responds well, that's all they do. Often though, the patient will initially seem to do better but then deteriorate. At that point they use another type of oxygen delivery system that is under pressure. If that fails, they go to another oxygen system that I can't remember how it differs, but somehow it's a 'high delivery" system. If that fails the patient is then put on a ventilator. The doc said the ventilator is used when all else has failed and is used as a last resort. I still haven't heard what the survival rate is when measures go that far. I suppose the CPAP just does not provide the delivery pressure to inflate a lung. I have seen one, my IBM buddy has one now but I never really paid that much attention to it. A good article on what happens to the lung: https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/healt...deo/index.html -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
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#4
posted to rec.boats
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General Motors
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:04:49 -0400, wrote:
I saw a doctor being asked if a CPAP machine could be modified for use as a ventilator. Answer was "No". Also saw another doc who is currently working in a hospital in NYC. He explained the protocols and steps taken when a person is admitted with covid-19 and has difficulty breathing. They are not put on a ventilator initially. They start with a oxygen face mask. If the patient responds well, that's all they do. Often though, the patient will initially seem to do better but then deteriorate. At that point they use another type of oxygen delivery system that is under pressure. If that fails, they go to another oxygen system that I can't remember how it differs, but somehow it's a 'high delivery" system. If that fails the patient is then put on a ventilator. The doc said the ventilator is used when all else has failed and is used as a last resort. I still haven't heard what the survival rate is when measures go that far. === I read somewhere recently that the survival rate for ICU patients on ventilators was about 50%, and virtually all of the 50% survivors had some permanent lung damage. Unfortunately I don't have the original cite for that. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
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#5
posted to rec.boats
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General Motors
On 3/29/2020 11:13 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:04:49 -0400, wrote: I saw a doctor being asked if a CPAP machine could be modified for use as a ventilator. Answer was "No". Also saw another doc who is currently working in a hospital in NYC. He explained the protocols and steps taken when a person is admitted with covid-19 and has difficulty breathing. They are not put on a ventilator initially. They start with a oxygen face mask. If the patient responds well, that's all they do. Often though, the patient will initially seem to do better but then deteriorate. At that point they use another type of oxygen delivery system that is under pressure. If that fails, they go to another oxygen system that I can't remember how it differs, but somehow it's a 'high delivery" system. If that fails the patient is then put on a ventilator. The doc said the ventilator is used when all else has failed and is used as a last resort. I still haven't heard what the survival rate is when measures go that far. === I read somewhere recently that the survival rate for ICU patients on ventilators was about 50%, and virtually all of the 50% survivors had some permanent lung damage. Unfortunately I don't have the original cite for that. The doc I heard said basically the same thing which was a surprise to me. The ventilators that are being talked about so much are the "last ditch" effort to try to save people who are severely affected and the survival rate, as you say and as the doc said, is only about 50 percent ... maybe even less. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
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#6
posted to rec.boats
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General Motors
On 3/29/20 12:02 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/29/2020 11:13 AM, wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:04:49 -0400, wrote: I saw a doctor being asked if a CPAP machine could be modified for use as a ventilator.Â*Â* Answer was "No". Also saw another doc who is currently working in a hospital in NYC.Â* He explained the protocols and steps taken when a person is admitted with covid-19 and has difficulty breathing. They are not put on a ventilator initially.Â* They start with a oxygen face mask.Â* If the patient responds well, that's all they do. Often though, the patient will initially seem to do better but then deteriorate.Â* At that point they use another type of oxygen delivery system that is under pressure. If that fails, they go to another oxygen system that I can't remember how it differs, but somehow it's a 'high delivery" system. If that fails the patient is then put on a ventilator. The doc said the ventilator is used when all else has failed and is used as a last resort. I still haven't heard what the survival rate is when measures go that far. === I read somewhere recently that the survival rate for ICU patients on ventilators was about 50%, and virtually all of the 50% survivors had some permanent lung damage.Â* Unfortunately I don't have the original cite for that. The doc I heard said basically the same thing which was a surprise to me.Â* The ventilators that are being talked about so much are the "last ditch" effort to try to save people who are severely affected and the survival rate, as you say and as the doc said, is only about 50 percent ... maybe even less. What we need are massive, city by city rallies of Trump supporters interacting on a close, personal level, especially the ones who bought into their saviour's bull**** of how insignificant the impact of the virus would be. Party on, and then head to Florida's west coast beaches. |
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#7
posted to rec.boats
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General Motors
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 12:06:29 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 3/29/20 12:02 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/29/2020 11:13 AM, wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:04:49 -0400, wrote: I saw a doctor being asked if a CPAP machine could be modified for use as a ventilator.** Answer was "No". Also saw another doc who is currently working in a hospital in NYC.* He explained the protocols and steps taken when a person is admitted with covid-19 and has difficulty breathing. They are not put on a ventilator initially.* They start with a oxygen face mask.* If the patient responds well, that's all they do. Often though, the patient will initially seem to do better but then deteriorate.* At that point they use another type of oxygen delivery system that is under pressure. If that fails, they go to another oxygen system that I can't remember how it differs, but somehow it's a 'high delivery" system. If that fails the patient is then put on a ventilator. The doc said the ventilator is used when all else has failed and is used as a last resort. I still haven't heard what the survival rate is when measures go that far. === I read somewhere recently that the survival rate for ICU patients on ventilators was about 50%, and virtually all of the 50% survivors had some permanent lung damage.* Unfortunately I don't have the original cite for that. The doc I heard said basically the same thing which was a surprise to me.* The ventilators that are being talked about so much are the "last ditch" effort to try to save people who are severely affected and the survival rate, as you say and as the doc said, is only about 50 percent ... maybe even less. What we need are massive, city by city rallies of Trump supporters interacting on a close, personal level, especially the ones who bought into their saviour's bull**** of how insignificant the impact of the virus would be. Party on, and then head to Florida's west coast beaches. The expression, "**** you" is more than you deserve. -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
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#8
posted to rec.boats
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General Motors
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 12:06:31 PM UTC-4, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 3/29/20 12:02 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/29/2020 11:13 AM, wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:04:49 -0400, wrote: I saw a doctor being asked if a CPAP machine could be modified for use as a ventilator.Â*Â* Answer was "No". Also saw another doc who is currently working in a hospital in NYC.Â* He explained the protocols and steps taken when a person is admitted with covid-19 and has difficulty breathing. They are not put on a ventilator initially.Â* They start with a oxygen face mask.Â* If the patient responds well, that's all they do. Often though, the patient will initially seem to do better but then deteriorate.Â* At that point they use another type of oxygen delivery system that is under pressure. If that fails, they go to another oxygen system that I can't remember how it differs, but somehow it's a 'high delivery" system. If that fails the patient is then put on a ventilator. The doc said the ventilator is used when all else has failed and is used as a last resort. I still haven't heard what the survival rate is when measures go that far. === I read somewhere recently that the survival rate for ICU patients on ventilators was about 50%, and virtually all of the 50% survivors had some permanent lung damage.Â* Unfortunately I don't have the original cite for that. The doc I heard said basically the same thing which was a surprise to me.Â* The ventilators that are being talked about so much are the "last ditch" effort to try to save people who are severely affected and the survival rate, as you say and as the doc said, is only about 50 percent ... maybe even less. What we need are massive, city by city rallies of Trump supporters interacting on a close, personal level, especially the ones who bought into their saviour's bull**** of how insignificant the impact of the virus would be. Party on, and then head to Florida's west coast beaches. They've been doing that already. Oh, sorry. That was the idiot liberal Democrat voters. |
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#9
posted to rec.boats
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General Motors
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 12:06:29 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote: On 3/29/20 12:02 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/29/2020 11:13 AM, wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:04:49 -0400, wrote: I saw a doctor being asked if a CPAP machine could be modified for use as a ventilator.Â*Â* Answer was "No". Also saw another doc who is currently working in a hospital in NYC.Â* He explained the protocols and steps taken when a person is admitted with covid-19 and has difficulty breathing. They are not put on a ventilator initially.Â* They start with a oxygen face mask.Â* If the patient responds well, that's all they do. Often though, the patient will initially seem to do better but then deteriorate.Â* At that point they use another type of oxygen delivery system that is under pressure. If that fails, they go to another oxygen system that I can't remember how it differs, but somehow it's a 'high delivery" system. If that fails the patient is then put on a ventilator. The doc said the ventilator is used when all else has failed and is used as a last resort. I still haven't heard what the survival rate is when measures go that far. === I read somewhere recently that the survival rate for ICU patients on ventilators was about 50%, and virtually all of the 50% survivors had some permanent lung damage.Â* Unfortunately I don't have the original cite for that. The doc I heard said basically the same thing which was a surprise to me.Â* The ventilators that are being talked about so much are the "last ditch" effort to try to save people who are severely affected and the survival rate, as you say and as the doc said, is only about 50 percent ... maybe even less. What we need are massive, city by city rallies of Trump supporters interacting on a close, personal level, especially the ones who bought into their saviour's bull**** of how insignificant the impact of the virus would be. Party on, and then head to Florida's west coast beaches. They are already in Southern Md so you be careful now. The doctor thinks my niece had it and got over it (a few miles down the road from you) but they don't have any tests to be sure. |
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#10
posted to rec.boats
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General Motors
Wrote in message:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 12:06:29 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:On 3/29/20 12:02 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/29/2020 11:13 AM, wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:04:49 -0400, wrote: I saw a doctor being asked if a CPAP machine could be modified for use as a ventilator. Answer was "No". Also saw another doc who is currently working in a hospital in NYC. He explained the protocols and steps taken when a person is admitted with covid-19 and has difficulty breathing. They are not put on a ventilator initially. They start with a oxygen face mask. If the patient responds well, that's all they do. Often though, the patient will initially seem to do better but then deteriorate. At that point they use another type of oxygen delivery system that is under pressure. If that fails, they go to another oxygen system that I can't remember how it differs, but somehow it's a 'high delivery" system. If that fails the patient is then put on a ventilator. The doc said the ventilator is used when all else has failed and is used as a last resort. I still haven't heard what the survival rate is when measures go that far. === I read somewhere recently that the survival rate for ICU patients on ventilators was about 50%, and virtually all of the 50% survivors had some permanent lung damage. Unfortunately I don't have the original cite for that. The doc I heard said basically the same thing which was a surprise to me. The ventilators that are being talked about so much are the "last ditch" effort to try to save people who are severely affected and the survival rate, as you say and as the doc said, is only about 50 percent ... maybe even less. What we need are massive, city by city rallies of Trump supporters interacting on a close, personal level, especially the ones who bought into their saviour's bull**** of how insignificant the impact of the virus would be. Party on, and then head to Florida's west coast beaches.They are already in Southern Md so you be careful now. The doctorthinks my niece had it and got over it (a few miles down the road fromyou) but they don't have any tests to be sure. I wonder if she touched the same gas pump that Fat Harry did? If so she might be a carrier. -- .. ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
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