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#2
posted to rec.boats
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ELectric cars throw off more immisions than a diesel?
On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:08:55 -0400,
wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:11:32 -0400, wrote: They are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electric cars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways. === In my opinion that's an over simplification. For one it ignores the fact that stationary, large-scale power plants are much more efficient than the average internal combusion engine used in vehicles. Secondly, the charging is usually done at off peak hours when there is typically excess grid capacity. Last but not least, the trend is pointing in the direction of renewable energy such as wind and solar. If we live long enough (doubtful), we might even see clean nuclear fusion some day. As an additional benefit, electric cars have done quite a bit to advance the state-of-the-art for light weight, high efficiency batteries. Those gains will eventually prove useful for the storage of wind and solar energy. That all assumes a clean power plant in the first place. The article was talking about coal plants and we still have plenty of them. Your solar power is not going to do much if the cars are charged at night. |
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#3
posted to rec.boats
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ELectric cars throw off more immisions than a diesel?
On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:01:36 -0400, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:08:55 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:11:32 -0400, wrote: They are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electric cars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways. === In my opinion that's an over simplification. For one it ignores the fact that stationary, large-scale power plants are much more efficient than the average internal combusion engine used in vehicles. Secondly, the charging is usually done at off peak hours when there is typically excess grid capacity. Last but not least, the trend is pointing in the direction of renewable energy such as wind and solar. If we live long enough (doubtful), we might even see clean nuclear fusion some day. As an additional benefit, electric cars have done quite a bit to advance the state-of-the-art for light weight, high efficiency batteries. Those gains will eventually prove useful for the storage of wind and solar energy. That all assumes a clean power plant in the first place. The article was talking about coal plants and we still have plenty of them. Your solar power is not going to do much if the cars are charged at night. === At least in this country, coal plants are rapidly going away. Solar power at night is not going to happen of course. New battery technology, and other energy storage devices, will eventually help with that issue however. If every south facing roof in Florida was covered with high efficiency solar panels, there would be plenty of energy to spare for battery charging. I think that will eventually happen as the price of solar panels steadily decreases. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
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#4
posted to rec.boats
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ELectric cars throw off more immisions than a diesel?
On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:28:35 -0400,
wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:01:36 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:08:55 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:11:32 -0400, wrote: They are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electric cars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways. === In my opinion that's an over simplification. For one it ignores the fact that stationary, large-scale power plants are much more efficient than the average internal combusion engine used in vehicles. Secondly, the charging is usually done at off peak hours when there is typically excess grid capacity. Last but not least, the trend is pointing in the direction of renewable energy such as wind and solar. If we live long enough (doubtful), we might even see clean nuclear fusion some day. As an additional benefit, electric cars have done quite a bit to advance the state-of-the-art for light weight, high efficiency batteries. Those gains will eventually prove useful for the storage of wind and solar energy. That all assumes a clean power plant in the first place. The article was talking about coal plants and we still have plenty of them. Your solar power is not going to do much if the cars are charged at night. === At least in this country, coal plants are rapidly going away. Solar power at night is not going to happen of course. New battery technology, and other energy storage devices, will eventually help with that issue however. If every south facing roof in Florida was covered with high efficiency solar panels, there would be plenty of energy to spare for battery charging. I think that will eventually happen as the price of solar panels steadily decreases. My problem is drilling holes in a roof that isn't leaking now. My roofer neighbor says solar is great for his business. I also only have about 3kw worth of south facing roof. Solar is getting a lot cheaper tho. I was looking the other day and there are lots of collectors in the 75 cents a watt neighborhood. I wonder how FPL would feel if I built an array on their property ;-) |
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#5
posted to rec.boats
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ELectric cars throw off more immisions than a diesel?
On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 8:41:50 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:28:35 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:01:36 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:08:55 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:11:32 -0400, wrote: They are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electric cars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways. === In my opinion that's an over simplification. For one it ignores the fact that stationary, large-scale power plants are much more efficient than the average internal combusion engine used in vehicles. Secondly, the charging is usually done at off peak hours when there is typically excess grid capacity. Last but not least, the trend is pointing in the direction of renewable energy such as wind and solar. If we live long enough (doubtful), we might even see clean nuclear fusion some day. As an additional benefit, electric cars have done quite a bit to advance the state-of-the-art for light weight, high efficiency batteries. Those gains will eventually prove useful for the storage of wind and solar energy. That all assumes a clean power plant in the first place. The article was talking about coal plants and we still have plenty of them. Your solar power is not going to do much if the cars are charged at night. === At least in this country, coal plants are rapidly going away. Solar power at night is not going to happen of course. New battery technology, and other energy storage devices, will eventually help with that issue however. If every south facing roof in Florida was covered with high efficiency solar panels, there would be plenty of energy to spare for battery charging. I think that will eventually happen as the price of solar panels steadily decreases. My problem is drilling holes in a roof that isn't leaking now. My roofer neighbor says solar is great for his business. I also only have about 3kw worth of south facing roof. Solar is getting a lot cheaper tho. I was looking the other day and there are lots of collectors in the 75 cents a watt neighborhood. I wonder how FPL would feel if I built an array on their property ;-) Running those cables to/from that array near their power lines may be the biggest problem.You may create a transformer that neither of you want.  |
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#6
posted to rec.boats
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ELectric cars throw off more immisions than a diesel?
On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 18:36:36 -0700 (PDT), Its Me
wrote: On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 8:41:50 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:28:35 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:01:36 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:08:55 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:11:32 -0400, wrote: They are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electric cars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways. === In my opinion that's an over simplification. For one it ignores the fact that stationary, large-scale power plants are much more efficient than the average internal combusion engine used in vehicles. Secondly, the charging is usually done at off peak hours when there is typically excess grid capacity. Last but not least, the trend is pointing in the direction of renewable energy such as wind and solar. If we live long enough (doubtful), we might even see clean nuclear fusion some day. As an additional benefit, electric cars have done quite a bit to advance the state-of-the-art for light weight, high efficiency batteries. Those gains will eventually prove useful for the storage of wind and solar energy. That all assumes a clean power plant in the first place. The article was talking about coal plants and we still have plenty of them. Your solar power is not going to do much if the cars are charged at night. === At least in this country, coal plants are rapidly going away. Solar power at night is not going to happen of course. New battery technology, and other energy storage devices, will eventually help with that issue however. If every south facing roof in Florida was covered with high efficiency solar panels, there would be plenty of energy to spare for battery charging. I think that will eventually happen as the price of solar panels steadily decreases. My problem is drilling holes in a roof that isn't leaking now. My roofer neighbor says solar is great for his business. I also only have about 3kw worth of south facing roof. Solar is getting a lot cheaper tho. I was looking the other day and there are lots of collectors in the 75 cents a watt neighborhood. I wonder how FPL would feel if I built an array on their property ;-) Running those cables to/from that array near their power lines may be the biggest problem.You may create a transformer that neither of you want. That is way overstated. I have tried to scavenge power from those lines for 35 years with absolutely zero success. If you believe what you see on you tube I should be able to hold an F40 tube in the air and have it light up ... nope. I should be able to string a wire parallel to the line and generate something ... nope. Coil of wire ... nope. I really wanted a light in my boat house under those lines without stringing another wire but no joy. If you really look at these lines it is easy to see why. They are a twisted triplex. They just have a twist about every half mile or so but that is still way smaller than the wave length. (roughly from here to California) Besides, my wires would be running at 90 degrees to the power line and underground. |
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#7
posted to rec.boats
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ELectric cars throw off more immisions than a diesel?
wrote:
On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 18:36:36 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 8:41:50 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:28:35 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:01:36 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:08:55 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:11:32 -0400, wrote: They are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electric cars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways. === In my opinion that's an over simplification. For one it ignores the fact that stationary, large-scale power plants are much more efficient than the average internal combusion engine used in vehicles. Secondly, the charging is usually done at off peak hours when there is typically excess grid capacity. Last but not least, the trend is pointing in the direction of renewable energy such as wind and solar. If we live long enough (doubtful), we might even see clean nuclear fusion some day. As an additional benefit, electric cars have done quite a bit to advance the state-of-the-art for light weight, high efficiency batteries. Those gains will eventually prove useful for the storage of wind and solar energy. That all assumes a clean power plant in the first place. The article was talking about coal plants and we still have plenty of them. Your solar power is not going to do much if the cars are charged at night. === At least in this country, coal plants are rapidly going away. Solar power at night is not going to happen of course. New battery technology, and other energy storage devices, will eventually help with that issue however. If every south facing roof in Florida was covered with high efficiency solar panels, there would be plenty of energy to spare for battery charging. I think that will eventually happen as the price of solar panels steadily decreases. My problem is drilling holes in a roof that isn't leaking now. My roofer neighbor says solar is great for his business. I also only have about 3kw worth of south facing roof. Solar is getting a lot cheaper tho. I was looking the other day and there are lots of collectors in the 75 cents a watt neighborhood. I wonder how FPL would feel if I built an array on their property ;-) Running those cables to/from that array near their power lines may be the biggest problem.You may create a transformer that neither of you want. That is way overstated. I have tried to scavenge power from those lines for 35 years with absolutely zero success. If you believe what you see on you tube I should be able to hold an F40 tube in the air and have it light up ... nope. I should be able to string a wire parallel to the line and generate something ... nope. Coil of wire ... nope. I really wanted a light in my boat house under those lines without stringing another wire but no joy. If you really look at these lines it is easy to see why. They are a twisted triplex. They just have a twist about every half mile or so but that is still way smaller than the wave length. (roughly from here to California) Besides, my wires would be running at 90 degrees to the power line and underground. There are a lot of LED lights that are charged with small solar panels. Pretty cheap, too. How much light do you need? |
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#8
posted to rec.boats
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ELectric cars throw off more immisions than a diesel?
On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 11:16:47 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 18:36:36 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 8:41:50 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:28:35 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:01:36 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:08:55 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:11:32 -0400, wrote: They are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electric cars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways. === In my opinion that's an over simplification. For one it ignores the fact that stationary, large-scale power plants are much more efficient than the average internal combusion engine used in vehicles. Secondly, the charging is usually done at off peak hours when there is typically excess grid capacity. Last but not least, the trend is pointing in the direction of renewable energy such as wind and solar. If we live long enough (doubtful), we might even see clean nuclear fusion some day. As an additional benefit, electric cars have done quite a bit to advance the state-of-the-art for light weight, high efficiency batteries. Those gains will eventually prove useful for the storage of wind and solar energy. That all assumes a clean power plant in the first place. The article was talking about coal plants and we still have plenty of them. Your solar power is not going to do much if the cars are charged at night. === At least in this country, coal plants are rapidly going away. Solar power at night is not going to happen of course. New battery technology, and other energy storage devices, will eventually help with that issue however. If every south facing roof in Florida was covered with high efficiency solar panels, there would be plenty of energy to spare for battery charging. I think that will eventually happen as the price of solar panels steadily decreases. My problem is drilling holes in a roof that isn't leaking now. My roofer neighbor says solar is great for his business. I also only have about 3kw worth of south facing roof. Solar is getting a lot cheaper tho. I was looking the other day and there are lots of collectors in the 75 cents a watt neighborhood. I wonder how FPL would feel if I built an array on their property ;-) Running those cables to/from that array near their power lines may be the biggest problem.You may create a transformer that neither of you want. That is way overstated. I have tried to scavenge power from those lines for 35 years with absolutely zero success. If you believe what you see on you tube I should be able to hold an F40 tube in the air and have it light up ... nope. I should be able to string a wire parallel to the line and generate something ... nope. Coil of wire ... nope. I really wanted a light in my boat house under those lines without stringing another wire but no joy. If you really look at these lines it is easy to see why. They are a twisted triplex. They just have a twist about every half mile or so but that is still way smaller than the wave length. (roughly from here to California) Besides, my wires would be running at 90 degrees to the power line and underground. You aren't trying hard enough. It would take a fairly long run parallel to those lines to get any induced power. That a *very* inefficient transformer. The twist has nothing to do with it. It's not RF (wavelength) they are concerned with, it's a expanding and collapsing magnetic field at 60hz. Twisted pair is used primarily to greatly reduce *induced* interference, not to reduce radiated interference. Those conductors you are seeing aren't twisted pairs, but rather an efficient way to run a conductor of a specific CMA. Easier and more efficient to run a lazy spiral of three smaller conductors sharing the load than to run one that is their equal. That doesn't change their radiated magnetic footprint. You're right about the 90 degree rule. I'd be more worried about the induced noise in the panels and their conductors, which may not be at 90 degrees.. |
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