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#12
posted to rec.boats
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Power line follies (was cars)
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 00:39:30 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote: wrote: On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 19:35:19 -0400, Alex wrote: wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 18:36:36 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 8:41:50 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:28:35 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:01:36 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:08:55 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:11:32 -0400, wrote: They are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electric cars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways. === In my opinion that's an over simplification. For one it ignores the fact that stationary, large-scale power plants are much more efficient than the average internal combusion engine used in vehicles. Secondly, the charging is usually done at off peak hours when there is typically excess grid capacity. Last but not least, the trend is pointing in the direction of renewable energy such as wind and solar. If we live long enough (doubtful), we might even see clean nuclear fusion some day. As an additional benefit, electric cars have done quite a bit to advance the state-of-the-art for light weight, high efficiency batteries. Those gains will eventually prove useful for the storage of wind and solar energy. That all assumes a clean power plant in the first place. The article was talking about coal plants and we still have plenty of them. Your solar power is not going to do much if the cars are charged at night. === At least in this country, coal plants are rapidly going away. Solar power at night is not going to happen of course. New battery technology, and other energy storage devices, will eventually help with that issue however. If every south facing roof in Florida was covered with high efficiency solar panels, there would be plenty of energy to spare for battery charging. I think that will eventually happen as the price of solar panels steadily decreases. My problem is drilling holes in a roof that isn't leaking now. My roofer neighbor says solar is great for his business. I also only have about 3kw worth of south facing roof. Solar is getting a lot cheaper tho. I was looking the other day and there are lots of collectors in the 75 cents a watt neighborhood. I wonder how FPL would feel if I built an array on their property ;-) Running those cables to/from that array near their power lines may be the biggest problem.You may create a transformer that neither of you want.  That is way overstated. I have tried to scavenge power from those lines for 35 years with absolutely zero success. If you believe what you see on you tube I should be able to hold an F40 tube in the air and have it light up ... nope. I should be able to string a wire parallel to the line and generate something ... nope. Coil of wire ... nope. I really wanted a light in my boat house under those lines without stringing another wire but no joy. If you really look at these lines it is easy to see why. They are a twisted triplex. They just have a twist about every half mile or so but that is still way smaller than the wave length. (roughly from here to California) Besides, my wires would be running at 90 degrees to the power line and underground. There are a lot of LED lights that are charged with small solar panels. Pretty cheap, too. How much light do you need? I have 20 amps down there now. It is not an issue. The reality is 60 feet of rope light around the top of the lift is perfect. That ends up being about 100 watts. If I was still interested in trying to scavenge some power I might try something with an LED but I doubt I could even get a glimmer out of one. I have pretty much given up and debunked a lot of the urban legends. If anyone has another experiment, let me know. It is just a short walk across the Ed Labrador Memorial Bridge now, not Bwana hacking through the jungle like before. I am up there 4 or 5 times a day with the Deuce man. The setup is 1 delta high voltage line running 230kv and 2 delta medium voltage lines running 26kv. It is about 70 feet off the ground behind the house going up to more like 85' where it crosses the river. Bring out your fables. I love science. Need more voltage. The 500kv lines that run down the center of California induce lots of current in the parallel line. When a crop duster took out 5 towers, engineers thought an airplane would take out 4. Our friend worked for the power company. A special crew works on the line. Has a faraday cage suit. They shut down the downed line, reduced power in the parallel line and grounded the don line a mile each side of the break. He said the ground line at the tower by the break carried 200 amps. Why wouldn't it be somewhat proportional? I am not really able to see much of anything beyond tickling a digital meter and that happens just about anywhere. |
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#13
posted to rec.boats
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Power line follies (was cars)
wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 00:39:30 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: wrote: On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 19:35:19 -0400, Alex wrote: wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 18:36:36 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 8:41:50 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:28:35 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:01:36 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:08:55 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:11:32 -0400, wrote: They are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electric cars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways. === In my opinion that's an over simplification. For one it ignores the fact that stationary, large-scale power plants are much more efficient than the average internal combusion engine used in vehicles. Secondly, the charging is usually done at off peak hours when there is typically excess grid capacity. Last but not least, the trend is pointing in the direction of renewable energy such as wind and solar. If we live long enough (doubtful), we might even see clean nuclear fusion some day. As an additional benefit, electric cars have done quite a bit to advance the state-of-the-art for light weight, high efficiency batteries. Those gains will eventually prove useful for the storage of wind and solar energy. That all assumes a clean power plant in the first place. The article was talking about coal plants and we still have plenty of them. Your solar power is not going to do much if the cars are charged at night. === At least in this country, coal plants are rapidly going away. Solar power at night is not going to happen of course. New battery technology, and other energy storage devices, will eventually help with that issue however. If every south facing roof in Florida was covered with high efficiency solar panels, there would be plenty of energy to spare for battery charging. I think that will eventually happen as the price of solar panels steadily decreases. My problem is drilling holes in a roof that isn't leaking now. My roofer neighbor says solar is great for his business. I also only have about 3kw worth of south facing roof. Solar is getting a lot cheaper tho. I was looking the other day and there are lots of collectors in the 75 cents a watt neighborhood. I wonder how FPL would feel if I built an array on their property ;-) Running those cables to/from that array near their power lines may be the biggest problem.You may create a transformer that neither of you want. That is way overstated. I have tried to scavenge power from those lines for 35 years with absolutely zero success. If you believe what you see on you tube I should be able to hold an F40 tube in the air and have it light up ... nope. I should be able to string a wire parallel to the line and generate something ... nope. Coil of wire ... nope. I really wanted a light in my boat house under those lines without stringing another wire but no joy. If you really look at these lines it is easy to see why. They are a twisted triplex. They just have a twist about every half mile or so but that is still way smaller than the wave length. (roughly from here to California) Besides, my wires would be running at 90 degrees to the power line and underground. There are a lot of LED lights that are charged with small solar panels. Pretty cheap, too. How much light do you need? I have 20 amps down there now. It is not an issue. The reality is 60 feet of rope light around the top of the lift is perfect. That ends up being about 100 watts. If I was still interested in trying to scavenge some power I might try something with an LED but I doubt I could even get a glimmer out of one. I have pretty much given up and debunked a lot of the urban legends. If anyone has another experiment, let me know. It is just a short walk across the Ed Labrador Memorial Bridge now, not Bwana hacking through the jungle like before. I am up there 4 or 5 times a day with the Deuce man. The setup is 1 delta high voltage line running 230kv and 2 delta medium voltage lines running 26kv. It is about 70 feet off the ground behind the house going up to more like 85' where it crosses the river. Bring out your fables. I love science. Need more voltage. The 500kv lines that run down the center of California induce lots of current in the parallel line. When a crop duster took out 5 towers, engineers thought an airplane would take out 4. Our friend worked for the power company. A special crew works on the line. Has a faraday cage suit. They shut down the downed line, reduced power in the parallel line and grounded the don line a mile each side of the break. He said the ground line at the tower by the break carried 200 amps. Why wouldn't it be somewhat proportional? I am not really able to see much of anything beyond tickling a digital meter and that happens just about anywhere. Maybe exponential. Exponential falloff from the line. 500kv May have a much bigger inductive presentation. |
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#14
posted to rec.boats
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Power line follies (was cars)
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 01:26:46 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote: wrote: On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 00:39:30 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: wrote: On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 19:35:19 -0400, Alex wrote: wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 18:36:36 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 8:41:50 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:28:35 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:01:36 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:08:55 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:11:32 -0400, wrote: They are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electric cars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways. === In my opinion that's an over simplification. For one it ignores the fact that stationary, large-scale power plants are much more efficient than the average internal combusion engine used in vehicles. Secondly, the charging is usually done at off peak hours when there is typically excess grid capacity. Last but not least, the trend is pointing in the direction of renewable energy such as wind and solar. If we live long enough (doubtful), we might even see clean nuclear fusion some day. As an additional benefit, electric cars have done quite a bit to advance the state-of-the-art for light weight, high efficiency batteries. Those gains will eventually prove useful for the storage of wind and solar energy. That all assumes a clean power plant in the first place. The article was talking about coal plants and we still have plenty of them. Your solar power is not going to do much if the cars are charged at night. === At least in this country, coal plants are rapidly going away. Solar power at night is not going to happen of course. New battery technology, and other energy storage devices, will eventually help with that issue however. If every south facing roof in Florida was covered with high efficiency solar panels, there would be plenty of energy to spare for battery charging. I think that will eventually happen as the price of solar panels steadily decreases. My problem is drilling holes in a roof that isn't leaking now. My roofer neighbor says solar is great for his business. I also only have about 3kw worth of south facing roof. Solar is getting a lot cheaper tho. I was looking the other day and there are lots of collectors in the 75 cents a watt neighborhood. I wonder how FPL would feel if I built an array on their property ;-) Running those cables to/from that array near their power lines may be the biggest problem.You may create a transformer that neither of you want. That is way overstated. I have tried to scavenge power from those lines for 35 years with absolutely zero success. If you believe what you see on you tube I should be able to hold an F40 tube in the air and have it light up ... nope. I should be able to string a wire parallel to the line and generate something ... nope. Coil of wire ... nope. I really wanted a light in my boat house under those lines without stringing another wire but no joy. If you really look at these lines it is easy to see why. They are a twisted triplex. They just have a twist about every half mile or so but that is still way smaller than the wave length. (roughly from here to California) Besides, my wires would be running at 90 degrees to the power line and underground. There are a lot of LED lights that are charged with small solar panels. Pretty cheap, too. How much light do you need? I have 20 amps down there now. It is not an issue. The reality is 60 feet of rope light around the top of the lift is perfect. That ends up being about 100 watts. If I was still interested in trying to scavenge some power I might try something with an LED but I doubt I could even get a glimmer out of one. I have pretty much given up and debunked a lot of the urban legends. If anyone has another experiment, let me know. It is just a short walk across the Ed Labrador Memorial Bridge now, not Bwana hacking through the jungle like before. I am up there 4 or 5 times a day with the Deuce man. The setup is 1 delta high voltage line running 230kv and 2 delta medium voltage lines running 26kv. It is about 70 feet off the ground behind the house going up to more like 85' where it crosses the river. Bring out your fables. I love science. Need more voltage. The 500kv lines that run down the center of California induce lots of current in the parallel line. When a crop duster took out 5 towers, engineers thought an airplane would take out 4. Our friend worked for the power company. A special crew works on the line. Has a faraday cage suit. They shut down the downed line, reduced power in the parallel line and grounded the don line a mile each side of the break. He said the ground line at the tower by the break carried 200 amps. Why wouldn't it be somewhat proportional? I am not really able to see much of anything beyond tickling a digital meter and that happens just about anywhere. Maybe exponential. Exponential falloff from the line. 500kv May have a much bigger inductive presentation. The field drops as a square of the distance but the field strength you start with should be proportional. I know this line is running at 100% or more of design capacity because they are trying to upgrade it ,.. again. The last time they did a directional bore because the gopher tortoises have made it very hard to bring equipment down here. By the time they identified all of the burrows and looked into what the DEP wanted them to do, the directional bore was cheaper. If anything there are more now. I have 5 individuals identified, between my house and the river and there are almost a dozen active burrows just from them. I doubt the people doing the surveys know as much about these guys as I do tho. They probably think there are at least 10 of them. DEP is calling this patch critical habitat. |
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#15
posted to rec.boats
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ELectric cars throw off more immisions than a diesel?
On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 11:16:47 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 18:36:36 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 8:41:50 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:28:35 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:01:36 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:08:55 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:11:32 -0400, wrote: They are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electric cars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways. === In my opinion that's an over simplification. For one it ignores the fact that stationary, large-scale power plants are much more efficient than the average internal combusion engine used in vehicles. Secondly, the charging is usually done at off peak hours when there is typically excess grid capacity. Last but not least, the trend is pointing in the direction of renewable energy such as wind and solar. If we live long enough (doubtful), we might even see clean nuclear fusion some day. As an additional benefit, electric cars have done quite a bit to advance the state-of-the-art for light weight, high efficiency batteries. Those gains will eventually prove useful for the storage of wind and solar energy. That all assumes a clean power plant in the first place. The article was talking about coal plants and we still have plenty of them. Your solar power is not going to do much if the cars are charged at night. === At least in this country, coal plants are rapidly going away. Solar power at night is not going to happen of course. New battery technology, and other energy storage devices, will eventually help with that issue however. If every south facing roof in Florida was covered with high efficiency solar panels, there would be plenty of energy to spare for battery charging. I think that will eventually happen as the price of solar panels steadily decreases. My problem is drilling holes in a roof that isn't leaking now. My roofer neighbor says solar is great for his business. I also only have about 3kw worth of south facing roof. Solar is getting a lot cheaper tho. I was looking the other day and there are lots of collectors in the 75 cents a watt neighborhood. I wonder how FPL would feel if I built an array on their property ;-) Running those cables to/from that array near their power lines may be the biggest problem.You may create a transformer that neither of you want. That is way overstated. I have tried to scavenge power from those lines for 35 years with absolutely zero success. If you believe what you see on you tube I should be able to hold an F40 tube in the air and have it light up ... nope. I should be able to string a wire parallel to the line and generate something ... nope. Coil of wire ... nope. I really wanted a light in my boat house under those lines without stringing another wire but no joy. If you really look at these lines it is easy to see why. They are a twisted triplex. They just have a twist about every half mile or so but that is still way smaller than the wave length. (roughly from here to California) Besides, my wires would be running at 90 degrees to the power line and underground. You aren't trying hard enough. It would take a fairly long run parallel to those lines to get any induced power. That a *very* inefficient transformer. The twist has nothing to do with it. It's not RF (wavelength) they are concerned with, it's a expanding and collapsing magnetic field at 60hz. Twisted pair is used primarily to greatly reduce *induced* interference, not to reduce radiated interference. Those conductors you are seeing aren't twisted pairs, but rather an efficient way to run a conductor of a specific CMA. Easier and more efficient to run a lazy spiral of three smaller conductors sharing the load than to run one that is their equal. That doesn't change their radiated magnetic footprint. You're right about the 90 degree rule. I'd be more worried about the induced noise in the panels and their conductors, which may not be at 90 degrees.. |
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#16
posted to rec.boats
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Power line follies
On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 20:15:34 -0700 (PDT), Its Me
wrote: On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 11:16:47 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 18:36:36 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 8:41:50 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:28:35 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:01:36 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:08:55 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:11:32 -0400, wrote: They are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electric cars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways. === In my opinion that's an over simplification. For one it ignores the fact that stationary, large-scale power plants are much more efficient than the average internal combusion engine used in vehicles. Secondly, the charging is usually done at off peak hours when there is typically excess grid capacity. Last but not least, the trend is pointing in the direction of renewable energy such as wind and solar. If we live long enough (doubtful), we might even see clean nuclear fusion some day. As an additional benefit, electric cars have done quite a bit to advance the state-of-the-art for light weight, high efficiency batteries. Those gains will eventually prove useful for the storage of wind and solar energy. That all assumes a clean power plant in the first place. The article was talking about coal plants and we still have plenty of them. Your solar power is not going to do much if the cars are charged at night. === At least in this country, coal plants are rapidly going away. Solar power at night is not going to happen of course. New battery technology, and other energy storage devices, will eventually help with that issue however. If every south facing roof in Florida was covered with high efficiency solar panels, there would be plenty of energy to spare for battery charging. I think that will eventually happen as the price of solar panels steadily decreases. My problem is drilling holes in a roof that isn't leaking now. My roofer neighbor says solar is great for his business. I also only have about 3kw worth of south facing roof. Solar is getting a lot cheaper tho. I was looking the other day and there are lots of collectors in the 75 cents a watt neighborhood. I wonder how FPL would feel if I built an array on their property ;-) Running those cables to/from that array near their power lines may be the biggest problem.You may create a transformer that neither of you want. That is way overstated. I have tried to scavenge power from those lines for 35 years with absolutely zero success. If you believe what you see on you tube I should be able to hold an F40 tube in the air and have it light up ... nope. I should be able to string a wire parallel to the line and generate something ... nope. Coil of wire ... nope. I really wanted a light in my boat house under those lines without stringing another wire but no joy. If you really look at these lines it is easy to see why. They are a twisted triplex. They just have a twist about every half mile or so but that is still way smaller than the wave length. (roughly from here to California) Besides, my wires would be running at 90 degrees to the power line and underground. You aren't trying hard enough. It would take a fairly long run parallel to those lines to get any induced power. That a *very* inefficient transformer. The twist has nothing to do with it. It's not RF (wavelength) they are concerned with, it's a expanding and collapsing magnetic field at 60hz. Twisted pair is used primarily to greatly reduce *induced* interference, not to reduce radiated interference. Those conductors you are seeing aren't twisted pairs, but rather an efficient way to run a conductor of a specific CMA. Easier and more efficient to run a lazy spiral of three smaller conductors sharing the load than to run one that is their equal. That doesn't change their radiated magnetic footprint. You still haven't explained why they twist them. It would be easier to just run them straight but it is obvious that they roll them about every half mile. I also believe the fields from 3 phases tend to cancel each other out. If I put my clamp on ammeter around a cable carrying the current down and back, I get zero and that is a lot closer coupled transformer than anything I could do by stringing a wire along the ground. You're right about the 90 degree rule. I'd be more worried about the induced noise in the panels and their conductors, which may not be at 90 degrees. Since the whole grid is in sync, what "noise"? I lived my whole computer career looking for noise and for the most part when we found the enemy, it was us, RF from our switching power supplies (along with some other PS schemes that were even noisier). |
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#17
posted to rec.boats
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ELectric cars throw off more immisions than a diesel?
On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 19:35:19 -0400, Alex wrote:
wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 18:36:36 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 8:41:50 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:28:35 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:01:36 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:08:55 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:11:32 -0400, wrote: They are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electric cars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways. === In my opinion that's an over simplification. For one it ignores the fact that stationary, large-scale power plants are much more efficient than the average internal combusion engine used in vehicles. Secondly, the charging is usually done at off peak hours when there is typically excess grid capacity. Last but not least, the trend is pointing in the direction of renewable energy such as wind and solar. If we live long enough (doubtful), we might even see clean nuclear fusion some day. As an additional benefit, electric cars have done quite a bit to advance the state-of-the-art for light weight, high efficiency batteries. Those gains will eventually prove useful for the storage of wind and solar energy. That all assumes a clean power plant in the first place. The article was talking about coal plants and we still have plenty of them. Your solar power is not going to do much if the cars are charged at night. === At least in this country, coal plants are rapidly going away. Solar power at night is not going to happen of course. New battery technology, and other energy storage devices, will eventually help with that issue however. If every south facing roof in Florida was covered with high efficiency solar panels, there would be plenty of energy to spare for battery charging. I think that will eventually happen as the price of solar panels steadily decreases. My problem is drilling holes in a roof that isn't leaking now. My roofer neighbor says solar is great for his business. I also only have about 3kw worth of south facing roof. Solar is getting a lot cheaper tho. I was looking the other day and there are lots of collectors in the 75 cents a watt neighborhood. I wonder how FPL would feel if I built an array on their property ;-) Running those cables to/from that array near their power lines may be the biggest problem.You may create a transformer that neither of you want. That is way overstated. I have tried to scavenge power from those lines for 35 years with absolutely zero success. If you believe what you see on you tube I should be able to hold an F40 tube in the air and have it light up ... nope. I should be able to string a wire parallel to the line and generate something ... nope. Coil of wire ... nope. I really wanted a light in my boat house under those lines without stringing another wire but no joy. If you really look at these lines it is easy to see why. They are a twisted triplex. They just have a twist about every half mile or so but that is still way smaller than the wave length. (roughly from here to California) Besides, my wires would be running at 90 degrees to the power line and underground. There are a lot of LED lights that are charged with small solar panels. Pretty cheap, too. How much light do you need? === Yes, there are lot's of solar powered garden lights that should do the job, probably at less cost than trying to build a giant transformer. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
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#18
posted to rec.boats
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ELectric cars throw off more immisions than a diesel?
On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 23:42:48 -0400,
wrote: On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 19:35:19 -0400, Alex wrote: wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 18:36:36 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 8:41:50 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:28:35 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:01:36 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:08:55 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:11:32 -0400, wrote: They are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electric cars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways. === In my opinion that's an over simplification. For one it ignores the fact that stationary, large-scale power plants are much more efficient than the average internal combusion engine used in vehicles. Secondly, the charging is usually done at off peak hours when there is typically excess grid capacity. Last but not least, the trend is pointing in the direction of renewable energy such as wind and solar. If we live long enough (doubtful), we might even see clean nuclear fusion some day. As an additional benefit, electric cars have done quite a bit to advance the state-of-the-art for light weight, high efficiency batteries. Those gains will eventually prove useful for the storage of wind and solar energy. That all assumes a clean power plant in the first place. The article was talking about coal plants and we still have plenty of them. Your solar power is not going to do much if the cars are charged at night. === At least in this country, coal plants are rapidly going away. Solar power at night is not going to happen of course. New battery technology, and other energy storage devices, will eventually help with that issue however. If every south facing roof in Florida was covered with high efficiency solar panels, there would be plenty of energy to spare for battery charging. I think that will eventually happen as the price of solar panels steadily decreases. My problem is drilling holes in a roof that isn't leaking now. My roofer neighbor says solar is great for his business. I also only have about 3kw worth of south facing roof. Solar is getting a lot cheaper tho. I was looking the other day and there are lots of collectors in the 75 cents a watt neighborhood. I wonder how FPL would feel if I built an array on their property ;-) Running those cables to/from that array near their power lines may be the biggest problem.You may create a transformer that neither of you want. That is way overstated. I have tried to scavenge power from those lines for 35 years with absolutely zero success. If you believe what you see on you tube I should be able to hold an F40 tube in the air and have it light up ... nope. I should be able to string a wire parallel to the line and generate something ... nope. Coil of wire ... nope. I really wanted a light in my boat house under those lines without stringing another wire but no joy. If you really look at these lines it is easy to see why. They are a twisted triplex. They just have a twist about every half mile or so but that is still way smaller than the wave length. (roughly from here to California) Besides, my wires would be running at 90 degrees to the power line and underground. There are a lot of LED lights that are charged with small solar panels. Pretty cheap, too. How much light do you need? === Yes, there are lot's of solar powered garden lights that should do the job, probably at less cost than trying to build a giant transformer. Hard to beat 12 ga copper ;-) |
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#19
posted to rec.boats
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Power line follies (was cars)
On 4/24/2019 8:48 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 00:39:30 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: wrote: On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 19:35:19 -0400, Alex wrote: wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 18:36:36 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 8:41:50 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:28:35 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:01:36 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:08:55 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:11:32 -0400, wrote: They are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electric cars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways. === In my opinion that's an over simplification. For one it ignores the fact that stationary, large-scale power plants are much more efficient than the average internal combusion engine used in vehicles. Secondly, the charging is usually done at off peak hours when there is typically excess grid capacity. Last but not least, the trend is pointing in the direction of renewable energy such as wind and solar. If we live long enough (doubtful), we might even see clean nuclear fusion some day. As an additional benefit, electric cars have done quite a bit to advance the state-of-the-art for light weight, high efficiency batteries. Those gains will eventually prove useful for the storage of wind and solar energy. That all assumes a clean power plant in the first place. The article was talking about coal plants and we still have plenty of them. Your solar power is not going to do much if the cars are charged at night. === At least in this country, coal plants are rapidly going away. Solar power at night is not going to happen of course. New battery technology, and other energy storage devices, will eventually help with that issue however. If every south facing roof in Florida was covered with high efficiency solar panels, there would be plenty of energy to spare for battery charging. I think that will eventually happen as the price of solar panels steadily decreases. My problem is drilling holes in a roof that isn't leaking now. My roofer neighbor says solar is great for his business. I also only have about 3kw worth of south facing roof. Solar is getting a lot cheaper tho. I was looking the other day and there are lots of collectors in the 75 cents a watt neighborhood. I wonder how FPL would feel if I built an array on their property ;-) Running those cables to/from that array near their power lines may be the biggest problem.You may create a transformer that neither of you want. That is way overstated. I have tried to scavenge power from those lines for 35 years with absolutely zero success. If you believe what you see on you tube I should be able to hold an F40 tube in the air and have it light up ... nope. I should be able to string a wire parallel to the line and generate something ... nope. Coil of wire ... nope. I really wanted a light in my boat house under those lines without stringing another wire but no joy. If you really look at these lines it is easy to see why. They are a twisted triplex. They just have a twist about every half mile or so but that is still way smaller than the wave length. (roughly from here to California) Besides, my wires would be running at 90 degrees to the power line and underground. There are a lot of LED lights that are charged with small solar panels. Pretty cheap, too. How much light do you need? I have 20 amps down there now. It is not an issue. The reality is 60 feet of rope light around the top of the lift is perfect. That ends up being about 100 watts. If I was still interested in trying to scavenge some power I might try something with an LED but I doubt I could even get a glimmer out of one. I have pretty much given up and debunked a lot of the urban legends. If anyone has another experiment, let me know. It is just a short walk across the Ed Labrador Memorial Bridge now, not Bwana hacking through the jungle like before. I am up there 4 or 5 times a day with the Deuce man. The setup is 1 delta high voltage line running 230kv and 2 delta medium voltage lines running 26kv. It is about 70 feet off the ground behind the house going up to more like 85' where it crosses the river. Bring out your fables. I love science. Need more voltage. The 500kv lines that run down the center of California induce lots of current in the parallel line. When a crop duster took out 5 towers, engineers thought an airplane would take out 4. Our friend worked for the power company. A special crew works on the line. Has a faraday cage suit. They shut down the downed line, reduced power in the parallel line and grounded the don line a mile each side of the break. He said the ground line at the tower by the break carried 200 amps. Why wouldn't it be somewhat proportional? I am not really able to see much of anything beyond tickling a digital meter and that happens just about anywhere. Because like RF, the high voltage lines produce a near field and then a quickly diminishing "far field" as distance from the lines increases. It's not proportional, is dependent on current flow and, at 60hz is not anywhere as strong as at RF frequencies. It's still something I think about though. The greatest risk is at ionizing potentials that can cause immediate damage to living cells. Non ionizing potentials may cause an affect, causing cell molecules to vibrate (which is the whole idea behind an MRI scan) but the jury is still out on damage due to long term exposure. Frankly, I am more concerned with the RF energy ... as low as it is ... of a cell phone held up to your head to use. There is much scientific controversy as to if long term exposure constitutes a danger. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
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#20
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ELectric cars throw off more immisions than a diesel?
On 4/24/2019 11:42 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 19:35:19 -0400, Alex wrote: wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 18:36:36 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 8:41:50 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:28:35 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:01:36 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:08:55 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:11:32 -0400, wrote: They are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electric cars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways. === In my opinion that's an over simplification. For one it ignores the fact that stationary, large-scale power plants are much more efficient than the average internal combusion engine used in vehicles. Secondly, the charging is usually done at off peak hours when there is typically excess grid capacity. Last but not least, the trend is pointing in the direction of renewable energy such as wind and solar. If we live long enough (doubtful), we might even see clean nuclear fusion some day. As an additional benefit, electric cars have done quite a bit to advance the state-of-the-art for light weight, high efficiency batteries. Those gains will eventually prove useful for the storage of wind and solar energy. That all assumes a clean power plant in the first place. The article was talking about coal plants and we still have plenty of them. Your solar power is not going to do much if the cars are charged at night. === At least in this country, coal plants are rapidly going away. Solar power at night is not going to happen of course. New battery technology, and other energy storage devices, will eventually help with that issue however. If every south facing roof in Florida was covered with high efficiency solar panels, there would be plenty of energy to spare for battery charging. I think that will eventually happen as the price of solar panels steadily decreases. My problem is drilling holes in a roof that isn't leaking now. My roofer neighbor says solar is great for his business. I also only have about 3kw worth of south facing roof. Solar is getting a lot cheaper tho. I was looking the other day and there are lots of collectors in the 75 cents a watt neighborhood. I wonder how FPL would feel if I built an array on their property ;-) Running those cables to/from that array near their power lines may be the biggest problem.You may create a transformer that neither of you want. That is way overstated. I have tried to scavenge power from those lines for 35 years with absolutely zero success. If you believe what you see on you tube I should be able to hold an F40 tube in the air and have it light up ... nope. I should be able to string a wire parallel to the line and generate something ... nope. Coil of wire ... nope. I really wanted a light in my boat house under those lines without stringing another wire but no joy. If you really look at these lines it is easy to see why. They are a twisted triplex. They just have a twist about every half mile or so but that is still way smaller than the wave length. (roughly from here to California) Besides, my wires would be running at 90 degrees to the power line and underground. There are a lot of LED lights that are charged with small solar panels. Pretty cheap, too. How much light do you need? === Yes, there are lot's of solar powered garden lights that should do the job, probably at less cost than trying to build a giant transformer. Nikola Tesla would disagree. :-) --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
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