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Betsy displays some sense!
http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. |
Betsy displays some sense!
John H
http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. ...... Yknow, this is what cracks me up. People in Venezuela have runaway inflation and employment and are fighting socialism, while some people here in the US, are doing great but are pushing for socialism. Amazing. Hey, glad to see your generator is back in stock... |
Betsy displays some sense!
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H.
wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China |
Betsy displays some sense!
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty Costco a while back had a Yamaha 2000i for about $500. Mine was a grand 5 years ago. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 11:33:37 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:
John H http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. ..... Yknow, this is what cracks me up. People in Venezuela have runaway inflation and employment and are fighting socialism, while some people here in the US, are doing great but are pushing for socialism. Amazing. Hey, glad to see your generator is back in stock... Yeah, my coupon is good 'til the end of the month, but I think I'll get my butt down there tomorrow and pick it up. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China Let's try it again. It's a good article. http://tinyurl.com/y7g4fcy4 https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...38304_c_XO3YPf |
Betsy displays some sense!
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 11:33:37 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:
John H http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. ..... Yknow, this is what cracks me up. People in Venezuela have runaway inflation and employment and are fighting socialism, while some people here in the US, are doing great but are pushing for socialism. Amazing. Hey, glad to see your generator is back in stock... Here - Tiny URL is screwing up for some reason. Try this, I input the whole URL and think it's working: http://tinyurl.com/y7g4fcy4 |
Betsy displays some sense!
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On 10/11/2018 8:12 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. The reduced capacity on propane is in the manufacturer's specs for the generator. It isn't a huge reduction. On gas it is rated at 4750 surge and 3800 running watts. On propane the ratings drop a bit to 4350 surge and 3500 running watts. So, 400 watt reduction in surge capacity and 300 watt reduction in continuous running capacity. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On 10/11/2018 8:12 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. I think any generator can temporarily exceed their rated capacity but they may not last long if done on a regular basis. Windings and other components will get hot and go "poof". It's not often that generators are running all the time at full capacity and if they are, you probably need a bigger generator. :-) I mentioned before that the little Honda I have is rated for 2,000 watts surge and 1600 watts continuous or 13.3 amps. It ran my large microwave with a measured amperage draw of over 16 amps for a short time but as soon as I realized how much current was being drawn I shut the microwave off. I wouldn't do that on a regular basis. The circuit breaker on the generator never tripped. I've been looking around for a larger portable generator but I want one with 4 poles instead of the typical 2 poles. 4 poles will allow the engine to run at 1800 RPM to produce it's rated output at 60Hz instead of the typical 3600 RPM in a 2 pole generator. 3600 RPM is the main reason they are so noisy. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China === In my experience the normal ratio of horsepower to KW is 2:1. Anything less should be considered suspect. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On 10/11/2018 8:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China === In my experience the normal ratio of horsepower to KW is 2:1. Anything less should be considered suspect. We shouldn't confuse horsepower and watts with horsepower and generator output in watts. 1 hp = 745.7 watts so 8 hp = 5965.6 watts. That's simply the engine power. The generator output in watts will obviously be considerably lower. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 20:25:07 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. The reduced capacity on propane is in the manufacturer's specs for the generator. It isn't a huge reduction. On gas it is rated at 4750 surge and 3800 running watts. On propane the ratings drop a bit to 4350 surge and 3500 running watts. So, 400 watt reduction in surge capacity and 300 watt reduction in continuous running capacity. Maybe it is just because my generator is using an 11hp engine. The engine may be oversized for the generator head. I really wonder if I could go with a bigger breaker because that is what cooked off when I was doing the test. I am not screwing with it tho since everything seems to be working OK for what I need. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 20:41:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. I think any generator can temporarily exceed their rated capacity but they may not last long if done on a regular basis. Windings and other components will get hot and go "poof". It's not often that generators are running all the time at full capacity and if they are, you probably need a bigger generator. :-) I mentioned before that the little Honda I have is rated for 2,000 watts surge and 1600 watts continuous or 13.3 amps. It ran my large microwave with a measured amperage draw of over 16 amps for a short time but as soon as I realized how much current was being drawn I shut the microwave off. I wouldn't do that on a regular basis. The circuit breaker on the generator never tripped. I've been looking around for a larger portable generator but I want one with 4 poles instead of the typical 2 poles. 4 poles will allow the engine to run at 1800 RPM to produce it's rated output at 60Hz instead of the typical 3600 RPM in a 2 pole generator. 3600 RPM is the main reason they are so noisy. That still has little to do with propane vs gas tho. The generator head does not know what is spinning it up. I am guessing they sized the breaker to protect the generator. If not, why bother with the breaker? It does seem to cook off at the rated output, your Honda didn't. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 21:01:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China === In my experience the normal ratio of horsepower to KW is 2:1. Anything less should be considered suspect. We shouldn't confuse horsepower and watts with horsepower and generator output in watts. 1 hp = 745.7 watts so 8 hp = 5965.6 watts. That's simply the engine power. The generator output in watts will obviously be considerably lower. === Understood but 1 HP = 745.7 watts is the theoretical maximum. In reality you need considerably more horsepower to produse a KW because of electrical and mechanical losses, and because the engine is usually not being run at the RPM which produces peak power. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 21:01:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China === In my experience the normal ratio of horsepower to KW is 2:1. Anything less should be considered suspect. We shouldn't confuse horsepower and watts with horsepower and generator output in watts. 1 hp = 745.7 watts so 8 hp = 5965.6 watts. That's simply the engine power. The generator output in watts will obviously be considerably lower. Makes you wonder how good that 8hp 5.5kw Harbor Fright generator could be. |
Betsy displays some sense!
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/11/2018 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. I think any generator can temporarily exceed their rated capacity but they may not last long if done on a regular basis. Windings and other components will get hot and go "poof". It's not often that generators are running all the time at full capacity and if they are, you probably need a bigger generator. :-) I mentioned before that the little Honda I have is rated for 2,000 watts surge and 1600 watts continuous or 13.3 amps. It ran my large microwave with a measured amperage draw of over 16 amps for a short time but as soon as I realized how much current was being drawn I shut the microwave off. I wouldn't do that on a regular basis. The circuit breaker on the generator never tripped. I've been looking around for a larger portable generator but I want one with 4 poles instead of the typical 2 poles. 4 poles will allow the engine to run at 1800 RPM to produce it's rated output at 60Hz instead of the typical 3600 RPM in a 2 pole generator. 3600 RPM is the main reason they are so noisy. My Yamaha 2000 runs my Samsung camper microwave fine. Never ran it for a long time, mostly heat water for coffee. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 05:04:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. I think any generator can temporarily exceed their rated capacity but they may not last long if done on a regular basis. Windings and other components will get hot and go "poof". It's not often that generators are running all the time at full capacity and if they are, you probably need a bigger generator. :-) I mentioned before that the little Honda I have is rated for 2,000 watts surge and 1600 watts continuous or 13.3 amps. It ran my large microwave with a measured amperage draw of over 16 amps for a short time but as soon as I realized how much current was being drawn I shut the microwave off. I wouldn't do that on a regular basis. The circuit breaker on the generator never tripped. I've been looking around for a larger portable generator but I want one with 4 poles instead of the typical 2 poles. 4 poles will allow the engine to run at 1800 RPM to produce it's rated output at 60Hz instead of the typical 3600 RPM in a 2 pole generator. 3600 RPM is the main reason they are so noisy. My Yamaha 2000 runs my Samsung camper microwave fine. Never ran it for a long time, mostly heat water for coffee. I was able to run the microwave but with the low voltage, it did not sound all that great so we didn't do it much. I made coffee before I turned on the pool pump and little things like that got us by. With a little discipline we could even use a stove burner but I had the gas burner so I used that. We were pioneer folk, heating water on the propane burner to wash dishes but it really wasn't bad. Having the pool blue really made the lack of A/C a non issue. In fact cleaning up the pool was one of the first things I did. Getting all of that crap out of the pool as soon as I could saved it. I didn't even have it greening up on is. My neighbor's pools were all pea soup in a day or two. I had the pool and spa blue the whole time even tho all I could run on the spa was the low speed circulation. My wife was commenting this evening about how fast the whole neighborhood got to work on recovering. If you are sitting around without A/C you might as well go outside and get some **** done. Once I got the basic stuff working here I hopped in my cart and went around the neighborhood checking on my neighbors. I ran into other guys doing the same thing. Nothing like a good storm to meet your neighbors. Fortunately there really was not that much really bad stuff here and a lot of people had bailed anyway. I did find a free generator for my next door neighbor Luis (from our board president) that just needed a carburetor job and he had it running that evening. They had a brand new one they scored before the storm. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 22:00:59 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 21:01:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China === In my experience the normal ratio of horsepower to KW is 2:1. Anything less should be considered suspect. We shouldn't confuse horsepower and watts with horsepower and generator output in watts. 1 hp = 745.7 watts so 8 hp = 5965.6 watts. That's simply the engine power. The generator output in watts will obviously be considerably lower. === Understood but 1 HP = 745.7 watts is the theoretical maximum. In reality you need considerably more horsepower to produse a KW because of electrical and mechanical losses, and because the engine is usually not being run at the RPM which produces peak power. All I can say is that we should have used stronger horses. If that horse could have pulled an additional 11,254.72 pounds in one minute, then the results would be much easier to remember. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 05:04:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. I think any generator can temporarily exceed their rated capacity but they may not last long if done on a regular basis. Windings and other components will get hot and go "poof". It's not often that generators are running all the time at full capacity and if they are, you probably need a bigger generator. :-) I mentioned before that the little Honda I have is rated for 2,000 watts surge and 1600 watts continuous or 13.3 amps. It ran my large microwave with a measured amperage draw of over 16 amps for a short time but as soon as I realized how much current was being drawn I shut the microwave off. I wouldn't do that on a regular basis. The circuit breaker on the generator never tripped. I've been looking around for a larger portable generator but I want one with 4 poles instead of the typical 2 poles. 4 poles will allow the engine to run at 1800 RPM to produce it's rated output at 60Hz instead of the typical 3600 RPM in a 2 pole generator. 3600 RPM is the main reason they are so noisy. My Yamaha 2000 runs my Samsung camper microwave fine. Never ran it for a long time, mostly heat water for coffee. Even the bigger microwaves are only about 1200 watts. Shouldn't be a problem for the 2000 watter. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 22:01:17 -0400, wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 21:01:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China === In my experience the normal ratio of horsepower to KW is 2:1. Anything less should be considered suspect. We shouldn't confuse horsepower and watts with horsepower and generator output in watts. 1 hp = 745.7 watts so 8 hp = 5965.6 watts. That's simply the engine power. The generator output in watts will obviously be considerably lower. Makes you wonder how good that 8hp 5.5kw Harbor Fright generator could be. === That was my point when I stated the normal 2:1 ratio of HP to KW. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On 10/11/2018 9:09 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 20:25:07 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. The reduced capacity on propane is in the manufacturer's specs for the generator. It isn't a huge reduction. On gas it is rated at 4750 surge and 3800 running watts. On propane the ratings drop a bit to 4350 surge and 3500 running watts. So, 400 watt reduction in surge capacity and 300 watt reduction in continuous running capacity. Maybe it is just because my generator is using an 11hp engine. The engine may be oversized for the generator head. I really wonder if I could go with a bigger breaker because that is what cooked off when I was doing the test. I am not screwing with it tho since everything seems to be working OK for what I need. Yep. The "leave well enough alone" strategy always works. My problem has always been that I often can't. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On 10/11/2018 9:58 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 20:41:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. I think any generator can temporarily exceed their rated capacity but they may not last long if done on a regular basis. Windings and other components will get hot and go "poof". It's not often that generators are running all the time at full capacity and if they are, you probably need a bigger generator. :-) I mentioned before that the little Honda I have is rated for 2,000 watts surge and 1600 watts continuous or 13.3 amps. It ran my large microwave with a measured amperage draw of over 16 amps for a short time but as soon as I realized how much current was being drawn I shut the microwave off. I wouldn't do that on a regular basis. The circuit breaker on the generator never tripped. I've been looking around for a larger portable generator but I want one with 4 poles instead of the typical 2 poles. 4 poles will allow the engine to run at 1800 RPM to produce it's rated output at 60Hz instead of the typical 3600 RPM in a 2 pole generator. 3600 RPM is the main reason they are so noisy. That still has little to do with propane vs gas tho. The generator head does not know what is spinning it up. I am guessing they sized the breaker to protect the generator. If not, why bother with the breaker? It does seem to cook off at the rated output, your Honda didn't. I suspect that if I had let it run longer powering the large microwave the breaker would have popped. Most circuit breakers will allow for a brief over-current situation until they heat up enough to trip. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On 10/12/2018 1:04 AM, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. I think any generator can temporarily exceed their rated capacity but they may not last long if done on a regular basis. Windings and other components will get hot and go "poof". It's not often that generators are running all the time at full capacity and if they are, you probably need a bigger generator. :-) I mentioned before that the little Honda I have is rated for 2,000 watts surge and 1600 watts continuous or 13.3 amps. It ran my large microwave with a measured amperage draw of over 16 amps for a short time but as soon as I realized how much current was being drawn I shut the microwave off. I wouldn't do that on a regular basis. The circuit breaker on the generator never tripped. I've been looking around for a larger portable generator but I want one with 4 poles instead of the typical 2 poles. 4 poles will allow the engine to run at 1800 RPM to produce it's rated output at 60Hz instead of the typical 3600 RPM in a 2 pole generator. 3600 RPM is the main reason they are so noisy. My Yamaha 2000 runs my Samsung camper microwave fine. Never ran it for a long time, mostly heat water for coffee. The Honda 2000 runs the smaller, counter-top microwave fine as well, but it's only rated at 750 watts versus the 1200 watts that the over stove, built in microwave is rated at. I purposely shopped for the lowest wattage small microwave I could find and 750 watts seemed to be the smallest. It still draws about 11 amps when running, so it needs 1320 watts of power to produce 750 watts of microwave power. 1320 watts is within the Honda's rated continuous output of 1600 watts. That's the thing. Can't confuse output power rating of the microwave with the input required to produce it. The large microwave was drawing slightly over 16 amps to produce 1200 watts of microwave power. That's at least 1920 watts. The Honda is only rated for 1600 watts continuous output and 2000 watts "surge". So to run the large microwave the Honda was running near or at it's surge rating continuously. Not good. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On 10/12/2018 5:49 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 05:04:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. I think any generator can temporarily exceed their rated capacity but they may not last long if done on a regular basis. Windings and other components will get hot and go "poof". It's not often that generators are running all the time at full capacity and if they are, you probably need a bigger generator. :-) I mentioned before that the little Honda I have is rated for 2,000 watts surge and 1600 watts continuous or 13.3 amps. It ran my large microwave with a measured amperage draw of over 16 amps for a short time but as soon as I realized how much current was being drawn I shut the microwave off. I wouldn't do that on a regular basis. The circuit breaker on the generator never tripped. I've been looking around for a larger portable generator but I want one with 4 poles instead of the typical 2 poles. 4 poles will allow the engine to run at 1800 RPM to produce it's rated output at 60Hz instead of the typical 3600 RPM in a 2 pole generator. 3600 RPM is the main reason they are so noisy. My Yamaha 2000 runs my Samsung camper microwave fine. Never ran it for a long time, mostly heat water for coffee. Even the bigger microwaves are only about 1200 watts. Shouldn't be a problem for the 2000 watter. John, the 1200 watt rating is the microwave output power, not the power required to produce it. My 1200 watt microwave draws just over 16 amps to run. 120v x 16 amps = 1920 watts which is over the continuous output rating of the Honda (1600 watts). It means the Honda has to run near or at it's "surge" capacity continuously in order to power the 1200 watt microwave. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On 10/11/2018 10:00 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 21:01:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China === In my experience the normal ratio of horsepower to KW is 2:1. Anything less should be considered suspect. We shouldn't confuse horsepower and watts with horsepower and generator output in watts. 1 hp = 745.7 watts so 8 hp = 5965.6 watts. That's simply the engine power. The generator output in watts will obviously be considerably lower. === Understood but 1 HP = 745.7 watts is the theoretical maximum. In reality you need considerably more horsepower to produse a KW because of electrical and mechanical losses, and because the engine is usually not being run at the RPM which produces peak power. Agreed. But again, I think the confusion is the conversion of hp to Kw which is the engine only. It doesn't consider what the engine is doing with that Kw and the loses occurred in generating an output. Good example is the current discussion about microwave ovens. There's some confusion about the rating of the microwave's output power versus the power required to produce that output. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On 10/12/18 8:10 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/11/2018 10:00 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 21:01:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China === In my experience the normal ratio of horsepower to KW is 2:1. Anything less should be considered suspect. We shouldn't confuse horsepower and watts with horsepower and generator output in watts. 1 hp = 745.7 wattsÂ*Â* so 8 hp = 5965.6 watts.Â* That's simply the engine power. The generator output in watts will obviously be considerably lower. === Understood but 1 HP = 745.7 watts is the theoretical maximum.Â* In reality you need considerably more horsepower to produse a KW because of electrical and mechanical losses, and because the engine is usually not being run at the RPM which produces peak power. Agreed.Â* But again, I think the confusion is the conversion of hp to Kw which is the engine only.Â* It doesn't consider what the engine is doing with that Kw and the loses occurred in generating an output. Good example is the current discussion about microwave ovens.Â* There's some confusion about the rating of the microwave's output power versus the power required to produce that output. I happen to have that info handy because I looked it up last week when I had to replace a dead microwave oven. Here's how it is figured: A 1200 watt output microwave takes 10. The typical formula for this is.. P = VI.. I = P/V = 1200 /120 =10 A. Hence, one would think that the answer is 10 A.. However, this formula applies only for DC current. For AC current,. P=VI cos (theta). where theta is the phase difference between V and I.. This phase difference is created by the inductances inside the microwave oven. This phase difference is probably mentioned on the specifications of the microwave.. Otherwise another specification maybe mentioned called "MVA".. Power (measured in MVA) = V * I. Using this , we can directly measure the I.. However, in the absence of either of the two additional information, it is impossible to fully find I. The new micro, in the manual, states: Rated power consumption 1250 watts Max Microwave output 1200 watts Frequency 2450 MHz Rated Current 10.4 A OF course, those are Chinese measurements. :) |
Betsy displays some sense!
On 10/12/2018 8:23 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/12/18 8:10 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/11/2018 10:00 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 21:01:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China === In my experience the normal ratio of horsepower to KW is 2:1. Anything less should be considered suspect. We shouldn't confuse horsepower and watts with horsepower and generator output in watts. 1 hp = 745.7 wattsÂ*Â* so 8 hp = 5965.6 watts.Â* That's simply the engine power. The generator output in watts will obviously be considerably lower. === Understood but 1 HP = 745.7 watts is the theoretical maximum.Â* In reality you need considerably more horsepower to produse a KW because of electrical and mechanical losses, and because the engine is usually not being run at the RPM which produces peak power. Agreed.Â* But again, I think the confusion is the conversion of hp to Kw which is the engine only.Â* It doesn't consider what the engine is doing with that Kw and the loses occurred in generating an output. Good example is the current discussion about microwave ovens.Â* There's some confusion about the rating of the microwave's output power versus the power required to produce that output. I happen to have that info handy because I looked it up last week when I had to replace a dead microwave oven. Here's how it is figured: A 1200 watt output microwave takes 10. The typical formula for this is.. P = VI.. I = P/V = 1200 /120 =10 A. Hence, one would think that the answer is 10 A.. However, this formula applies only for DC current. For AC current,. P=VI cos (theta). where theta is the phase difference between V and I.. This phase difference is created by the inductances inside the microwave oven. This phase difference is probably mentioned on the specifications of the microwave.. Otherwise another specification maybe mentioned called "MVA".. Power (measured in MVA) = V * I. Using this , we can directly measure the I.. However, in the absence of either of the two additional information, it is impossible to fully find I. The new micro, in the manual, states: Rated power consumptionÂ* 1250 watts Max Microwave outputÂ*Â*Â*Â* 1200 watts FrequencyÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2450 MHz Rated CurrentÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 10.4 A OF course, those are Chinese measurements.Â*Â* :) Heh. Again, those are the ratings of the microwave output power, mostly the klystron that actually produces the microwave energy. If taken as the power required (you can forget about all the phase relationships of voltage vs current and DC vs AC for this purpose) it would mean that the microwave is 100% efficient in converting input power to output power which is impossible. It may vary somewhat from microwave to microwave and it's age but a 1200 watt microwave draws considerably more current (power) to run compared to it's rated output powers. In the case of my relatively new 1200 watt microwave, the measured current draw is slightly over 16 amperes. Call it 16 amps. 120v * 16 amperes = 1920 watts. Even the smaller, 750 watt microwave draws about 11 amps to produce it's rated output of 750 watts. 120v * 11 amperes = 1320 watts. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On 10/12/2018 8:45 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/12/2018 8:23 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/12/18 8:10 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/11/2018 10:00 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 21:01:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China === In my experience the normal ratio of horsepower to KW is 2:1. Anything less should be considered suspect. We shouldn't confuse horsepower and watts with horsepower and generator output in watts. 1 hp = 745.7 wattsÂ*Â* so 8 hp = 5965.6 watts.Â* That's simply the engine power. The generator output in watts will obviously be considerably lower. === Understood but 1 HP = 745.7 watts is the theoretical maximum.Â* In reality you need considerably more horsepower to produse a KW because of electrical and mechanical losses, and because the engine is usually not being run at the RPM which produces peak power. Agreed.Â* But again, I think the confusion is the conversion of hp to Kw which is the engine only.Â* It doesn't consider what the engine is doing with that Kw and the loses occurred in generating an output. Good example is the current discussion about microwave ovens. There's some confusion about the rating of the microwave's output power versus the power required to produce that output. I happen to have that info handy because I looked it up last week when I had to replace a dead microwave oven. Here's how it is figured: A 1200 watt output microwave takes 10. The typical formula for this is.. P = VI.. I = P/V = 1200 /120 =10 A. Hence, one would think that the answer is 10 A.. However, this formula applies only for DC current. For AC current,. P=VI cos (theta). where theta is the phase difference between V and I.. This phase difference is created by the inductances inside the microwave oven. This phase difference is probably mentioned on the specifications of the microwave.. Otherwise another specification maybe mentioned called "MVA".. Power (measured in MVA) = V * I. Using this , we can directly measure the I.. However, in the absence of either of the two additional information, it is impossible to fully find I. The new micro, in the manual, states: Rated power consumptionÂ* 1250 watts Max Microwave outputÂ*Â*Â*Â* 1200 watts FrequencyÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2450 MHz Rated CurrentÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 10.4 A OF course, those are Chinese measurements.Â*Â* :) Heh.Â* Again, those are the ratings of the microwave output power, mostly the klystron that actually produces the microwave energy.Â* If taken as the power required (you can forget about all the phase relationships of voltage vs current and DC vs AC for this purpose) it would mean that the microwave is 100% efficient in converting input power to output power which is impossible. It may vary somewhat from microwave to microwave and it's age but a 1200 watt microwave draws considerably more current (power) to run compared to it's rated output powers.Â* In the case of my relatively new 1200 watt microwave, the measured current draw is slightly over 16 amperes.Â* Call it 16 amps.Â* 120v * 16 amperes = 1920 watts. Even the smaller, 750 watt microwave draws about 11 amps to produce it's rated output of 750 watts.Â* 120v * 11 amperes = 1320 watts. I need to correct some readings. The current draw of 16 amps was when I was running the 1200 watt microwave on the generator. I realized it may have been a higher current reading due to shape factor of the AC waveform generated by the generator andif there was any voltage droop due to the generator being loaded close to it's max. So, I just measured the current it draws when powered by commercial power. Voltage is 121 vac. Current draw is 14 amps. So, it's using 121v * 14 amperes to produce 1200 watts of microwave power output or 1694 watts "in" to produce 1200 watts "out". Very reasonable and believable readings to me. |
Betsy displays some sense!
Struggled last January trying to decide between the EU2000i and the larger 2800 inverter unit. Bought the nice little suitcase model but I'm sure if we have another extended outage, I'll be kicking my butt.
|
Betsy displays some sense!
On 10/12/2018 9:42 AM, True North wrote:
Struggled last January trying to decide between the EU2000i and the larger 2800 inverter unit. Bought the nice little suitcase model but I'm sure if we have another extended outage, I'll be kicking my butt. This stuff is probably only interesting to nerds like me and Greg. We both seem to get a kick out of trying to get the most for the least in generators. For most, I'd just recommend getting the biggest generator you can afford or want and be happy with it. A whole house generator like Harry's is really nice to have but for people like me it's more fun trying to get by on the little ones, especially given that the need for them is so rare. Maybe after a few more winters, some long term outages (and more miles on me) I may spring for a whole house generator. They are popular and have come down in price somewhat but it still kills me that they sit, unused, for months or years other than to start up and run for 10 minutes once a week. |
Betsy displays some sense!
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/12/2018 1:04 AM, Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. I think any generator can temporarily exceed their rated capacity but they may not last long if done on a regular basis. Windings and other components will get hot and go "poof". It's not often that generators are running all the time at full capacity and if they are, you probably need a bigger generator. :-) I mentioned before that the little Honda I have is rated for 2,000 watts surge and 1600 watts continuous or 13.3 amps. It ran my large microwave with a measured amperage draw of over 16 amps for a short time but as soon as I realized how much current was being drawn I shut the microwave off. I wouldn't do that on a regular basis. The circuit breaker on the generator never tripped. I've been looking around for a larger portable generator but I want one with 4 poles instead of the typical 2 poles. 4 poles will allow the engine to run at 1800 RPM to produce it's rated output at 60Hz instead of the typical 3600 RPM in a 2 pole generator. 3600 RPM is the main reason they are so noisy. My Yamaha 2000 runs my Samsung camper microwave fine. Never ran it for a long time, mostly heat water for coffee. The Honda 2000 runs the smaller, counter-top microwave fine as well, but it's only rated at 750 watts versus the 1200 watts that the over stove, built in microwave is rated at. I purposely shopped for the lowest wattage small microwave I could find and 750 watts seemed to be the smallest. It still draws about 11 amps when running, so it needs 1320 watts of power to produce 750 watts of microwave power. 1320 watts is within the Honda's rated continuous output of 1600 watts. That's the thing. Can't confuse output power rating of the microwave with the input required to produce it. The large microwave was drawing slightly over 16 amps to produce 1200 watts of microwave power. That's at least 1920 watts. The Honda is only rated for 1600 watts continuous output and 2000 watts "surge". So to run the large microwave the Honda was running near or at it's surge rating continuously. Not good. My camper microwave is a standard over the counter unit. But since I w@s only heating for a,few minutes, probably no real drag on the generator. |
Betsy displays some sense!
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/12/2018 5:49 AM, John H. wrote: On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 05:04:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. I think any generator can temporarily exceed their rated capacity but they may not last long if done on a regular basis. Windings and other components will get hot and go "poof". It's not often that generators are running all the time at full capacity and if they are, you probably need a bigger generator. :-) I mentioned before that the little Honda I have is rated for 2,000 watts surge and 1600 watts continuous or 13.3 amps. It ran my large microwave with a measured amperage draw of over 16 amps for a short time but as soon as I realized how much current was being drawn I shut the microwave off. I wouldn't do that on a regular basis. The circuit breaker on the generator never tripped. I've been looking around for a larger portable generator but I want one with 4 poles instead of the typical 2 poles. 4 poles will allow the engine to run at 1800 RPM to produce it's rated output at 60Hz instead of the typical 3600 RPM in a 2 pole generator. 3600 RPM is the main reason they are so noisy. My Yamaha 2000 runs my Samsung camper microwave fine. Never ran it for a long time, mostly heat water for coffee. Even the bigger microwaves are only about 1200 watts. Shouldn't be a problem for the 2000 watter. John, the 1200 watt rating is the microwave output power, not the power required to produce it. My 1200 watt microwave draws just over 16 amps to run. 120v x 16 amps = 1920 watts which is over the continuous output rating of the Honda (1600 watts). It means the Honda has to run near or at it's "surge" capacity continuously in order to power the 1200 watt microwave. I would figure most microwave units should be about 14 amps max. They are designed to run on 15 amp circuits. |
Betsy displays some sense!
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/12/2018 9:42 AM, True North wrote: Struggled last January trying to decide between the EU2000i and the larger 2800 inverter unit. Bought the nice little suitcase model but I'm sure if we have another extended outage, I'll be kicking my butt. This stuff is probably only interesting to nerds like me and Greg. We both seem to get a kick out of trying to get the most for the least in generators. For most, I'd just recommend getting the biggest generator you can afford or want and be happy with it. A whole house generator like Harry's is really nice to have but for people like me it's more fun trying to get by on the little ones, especially given that the need for them is so rare. Maybe after a few more winters, some long term outages (and more miles on me) I may spring for a whole house generator. They are popular and have come down in price somewhat but it still kills me that they sit, unused, for months or years other than to start up and run for 10 minutes once a week. Here, I use the generator with the camper and figure the only long term usage I would really need is if we get a bad earthquake. We can live without AC. Only run mine a few weeks a year. Pool would be a problem. Luckily earthquakes of that magnitude are a long time between them. Unlike your hurricanes, and ice storms. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 08:23:18 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote: I happen to have that info handy because I looked it up last week when I had to replace a dead microwave oven. Here's how it is figured: A 1200 watt output microwave takes 10. The typical formula for this is.. P = VI.. I = P/V = 1200 /120 =10 A. Hence, one would think that the answer is 10 A.. However, this formula applies only for DC current. For AC current,. P=VI cos (theta). where theta is the phase difference between V and I.. This phase difference is created by the inductances inside the microwave oven. === Whoo hoo! 'Airree discovered Power Factor, well known to EEs of course, which is why most high powered AC electrical devices are rated in KVA instead of KW. For bonus points explain why inductors create a phase difference between voltage and current. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On 10/12/2018 11:02 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 08:23:18 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: I happen to have that info handy because I looked it up last week when I had to replace a dead microwave oven. Here's how it is figured: A 1200 watt output microwave takes 10. The typical formula for this is.. P = VI.. I = P/V = 1200 /120 =10 A. Hence, one would think that the answer is 10 A.. However, this formula applies only for DC current. For AC current,. P=VI cos (theta). where theta is the phase difference between V and I.. This phase difference is created by the inductances inside the microwave oven. === Whoo hoo! 'Airree discovered Power Factor, well known to EEs of course, which is why most high powered AC electrical devices are rated in KVA instead of KW. For bonus points explain why inductors create a phase difference between voltage and current. Eli the ice man. For even extra credit Harry, please explain when current leads voltage and when voltage leads current and what types of loads causes this. For our purposes of the microwave discussion, it can pretty much be ignored anyway. Power Factor becomes a concern in manufacturing plants when there are, as you say, many high powered electrical devices to be used. |
Betsy displays some sense!
Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 08:23:18 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: I happen to have that info handy because I looked it up last week when I had to replace a dead microwave oven. Here's how it is figured: A 1200 watt output microwave takes 10. The typical formula for this is.. P = VI.. I = P/V = 1200 /120 =10 A. Hence, one would think that the answer is 10 A.. However, this formula applies only for DC current. For AC current,. P=VI cos (theta). where theta is the phase difference between V and I.. This phase difference is created by the inductances inside the microwave oven. === Whoo hoo! 'Airree discovered Power Factor, well known to EEs of course, which is why most high powered AC electrical devices are rated in KVA instead of KW. For bonus points explain why inductors create a phase difference between voltage and current. You mean ELI the ICE man? |
Betsy displays some sense!
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/12/2018 11:02 AM, Wayne.B wrote: On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 08:23:18 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: I happen to have that info handy because I looked it up last week when I had to replace a dead microwave oven. Here's how it is figured: A 1200 watt output microwave takes 10. The typical formula for this is.. P = VI.. I = P/V = 1200 /120 =10 A. Hence, one would think that the answer is 10 A.. However, this formula applies only for DC current. For AC current,. P=VI cos (theta). where theta is the phase difference between V and I.. This phase difference is created by the inductances inside the microwave oven. === Whoo hoo! 'Airree discovered Power Factor, well known to EEs of course, which is why most high powered AC electrical devices are rated in KVA instead of KW. For bonus points explain why inductors create a phase difference between voltage and current. Eli the ice man. For even extra credit Harry, please explain when current leads voltage and when voltage leads current and what types of loads causes this. For our purposes of the microwave discussion, it can pretty much be ignored anyway. Power Factor becomes a concern in manufacturing plants when there are, as you say, many high powered electrical devices to be used. Works well for me. I do art welding, and do not see much difference in my electric bill from the welder. I think the power factor is off enough to not register on the meter. New meter for the solar may be different. |
Betsy displays some sense!
On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 08:05:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 10/12/2018 5:49 AM, John H. wrote: On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 05:04:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. I think any generator can temporarily exceed their rated capacity but they may not last long if done on a regular basis. Windings and other components will get hot and go "poof". It's not often that generators are running all the time at full capacity and if they are, you probably need a bigger generator. :-) I mentioned before that the little Honda I have is rated for 2,000 watts surge and 1600 watts continuous or 13.3 amps. It ran my large microwave with a measured amperage draw of over 16 amps for a short time but as soon as I realized how much current was being drawn I shut the microwave off. I wouldn't do that on a regular basis. The circuit breaker on the generator never tripped. I've been looking around for a larger portable generator but I want one with 4 poles instead of the typical 2 poles. 4 poles will allow the engine to run at 1800 RPM to produce it's rated output at 60Hz instead of the typical 3600 RPM in a 2 pole generator. 3600 RPM is the main reason they are so noisy. My Yamaha 2000 runs my Samsung camper microwave fine. Never ran it for a long time, mostly heat water for coffee. Even the bigger microwaves are only about 1200 watts. Shouldn't be a problem for the 2000 watter. John, the 1200 watt rating is the microwave output power, not the power required to produce it. My 1200 watt microwave draws just over 16 amps to run. 120v x 16 amps = 1920 watts which is over the continuous output rating of the Honda (1600 watts). It means the Honda has to run near or at it's "surge" capacity continuously in order to power the 1200 watt microwave. You are correct. Thank you! |
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