On 10/4/18 5:23 PM, wrote:
On 4 Oct 2018 20:52:05 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:30:26 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:



Your statement that psychologists can work without a license really
just depends on what state they are in.


Once again, your educational limitations exceed your reach. If you are
not practicing, you do not need a license. "Work" is a term that opens
the door to many rooms, and in the case of psychologists, those rooms do
not have to involve working as a therapist.

If you are saying they can help design ad campaigns to appeal to a
certain demographic, you are right but if they are seeing patients in
Florida they need some kind of a license, even if they are just bar
tenders or hair dressers.


I've posted several times that if you are not seeing patients, you do not
need a license.

It does call into question how you work being a psychologist if you
are not seeing patients. What are you doing?
Cleaning the office? Answering the phone?


Your raising that question once again demonstrates your ignorance and
disdain for academic study.

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/4/18 5:23 PM, wrote:
On 4 Oct 2018 20:52:05 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:30:26 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:



Your statement that psychologists can work without a license really
just depends on what state they are in.


Once again, your educational limitations exceed your reach. If you are
not practicing, you do not need a license. "Work" is a term that opens
the door to many rooms, and in the case of psychologists, those rooms do
not have to involve working as a therapist.

If you are saying they can help design ad campaigns to appeal to a
certain demographic, you are right but if they are seeing patients in
Florida they need some kind of a license, even if they are just bar
tenders or hair dressers.


I've posted several times that if you are not seeing patients, you do not
need a license.

It does call into question how you work being a psychologist if you
are not seeing patients. What are you doing?
Cleaning the office? Answering the phone?


Your raising that question once again demonstrates your ignorance and
disdain for academic study.


How can you do an accredited academic study as a psychologist if not
dealing with patients?

On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:13:33 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 10/4/18 4:32 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:39:13 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/4/2018 12:43 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/4/18 12:33 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 11:46:34 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:


2. She is not a psychiatrist.

Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us
believe from her testimony.


And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist?
And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a
license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the
supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a
consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it?

I never failed to "got it".
You need a professional license to mix drinks, cut hair or paint
fingernails but you say you can be a psychologist without one. That
just demonstrates how "unprofessional" that business is considered to
be by the government in some states. (Not Florida, they all need some
kind of license)



If you are not practicing as a therapist, you do not need a license.
Read that a few times until you understand it.

When my wife got her Master's in Florida, she had to work as a therapist
for a substantial period of time under the supervision of a licensed
therapist before she could even take the exam to become licensed. I seem
to recall that "period of time" back then was a year or so. The exam
itself was a killer back then, with a high failure rate. My wife got 90%
on her first try and was one of the few of several hundred tested that
day who passed. Then, she had to study for and pass a national exam to
become a licensed "clinical" therapist. After completing studies for her
doctorate and writing her doctoral dissertation and having it accepted,
she then had to take a three-day written exam and a day-long oral exam
defending her dissertation to get her Ph.D.

I'd love to see such an exam. How do you know if an answer is correct
or wrong?


That's an easy one. You just have to agree with what the professor
thinks, whether that professor has ever treated a patient or not.

Ahh, ignorance. You have it in abundance.

I am also not sure what constitutes a cure. I have never actually seen
one. I understand they usually drug the patients into serenity but
that is like using pain killers to treat a broken arm. You may feel
better but your arm is still broken.

And even more ignorance.


Great debate style, if you are 10.

On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:14:51 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 10/4/18 4:36 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:21 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 10/4/18 1:27 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:43:36 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 10/4/18 12:33 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 11:46:34 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:


2. She is not a psychiatrist.

Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us
believe from her testimony.


And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist?
And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a
license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the
supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a
consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it?

I never failed to "got it".
You need a professional license to mix drinks, cut hair or paint
fingernails but you say you can be a psychologist without one. That
just demonstrates how "unprofessional" that business is considered to
be by the government in some states. (Not Florida, they all need some
kind of license)



If you are not practicing as a therapist, you do not need a license.
Read that a few times until you understand it.

When my wife got her Master's in Florida, she had to work as a therapist
for a substantial period of time under the supervision of a licensed
therapist before she could even take the exam to become licensed. I seem
to recall that "period of time" back then was a year or so. The exam
itself was a killer back then, with a high failure rate. My wife got 90%
on her first try and was one of the few of several hundred tested that
day who passed. Then, she had to study for and pass a national exam to
become a licensed "clinical" therapist. After completing studies for her
doctorate and writing her doctoral dissertation and having it accepted,
she then had to take a three-day written exam and a day-long oral exam
defending her dissertation to get her Ph.D.

That must have been a while ago. Now she would need a provisional
license according to the Fla Health Department site.
I admit, Florida has gone absolutely license happy but a government
fan like you should appreciate that.
These days even the most mundane jobs like finger nail painters and
hair braiders need a license.


Karen's understanding is that Florida's licensing exam, which was
heavily waited towards law rather than practice, was restructured to
make it a little easier. In those days, the state licensing exams were
all given in Kissimmee, at the old Tupperware Center. So, while I was
hanging around, I ran into hopeful CPA's, hopeful registered nurses, et
cetera, all taking their exams in different rooms.

Most exams are pretty superficial. If I just had to take a test I
could be a doctor a lawyer and an indian chief.



Some exams may be superficial. Some are so complicated, you'd throw up
your hands, give up and walk out.

Never happened yet, in 72 years and lots of tests. No doubt between
all of the different courses of education I have had far more tests
than you have ever taken.
I had about 10,000 hours in the classroom at IBM, close to a thousand
in the military and CEU credits every other year for the 28 years
since I got my inspector certifications.
I haven't failed a test in 53 years but I have missed a few questions
now and then.

On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:


2. She is not a psychiatrist.

Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us
believe from her testimony.


And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist?
And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a
license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the
supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a
consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it?


So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what?

Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license
and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone
handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other
trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law.

https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive

If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can
paste it here if you are interested.



I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work.

I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed,
certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but
individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why
the Kentucky law is so significant.
In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber,
carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to
actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license
on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per
enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents
(responsible for compliance).
In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for
decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up
to the IBEW.



I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who
is responsible for them as a licensed electrician.

They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be
a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might
not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in
Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time
frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the
bureaucracy.

Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but
now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical
equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes
and gear.

There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and
skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family.
There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install
and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just
hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates
them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his
specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast.
There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of
them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very
knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I
was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody
at his company had a clue ... including the "license".

I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I
need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally
unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of
small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount
*outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You
plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer
power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage.
I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator
and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator
can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important.


If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main
breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only
have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a
lot of that.

On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:29:50 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 10/4/18 5:23 PM, wrote:
On 4 Oct 2018 20:52:05 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:30:26 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:



Your statement that psychologists can work without a license really
just depends on what state they are in.


Once again, your educational limitations exceed your reach. If you are
not practicing, you do not need a license. "Work" is a term that opens
the door to many rooms, and in the case of psychologists, those rooms do
not have to involve working as a therapist.

If you are saying they can help design ad campaigns to appeal to a
certain demographic, you are right but if they are seeing patients in
Florida they need some kind of a license, even if they are just bar
tenders or hair dressers.


I've posted several times that if you are not seeing patients, you do not
need a license.

It does call into question how you work being a psychologist if you
are not seeing patients. What are you doing?
Cleaning the office? Answering the phone?


Your raising that question once again demonstrates your ignorance and
disdain for academic study.

No it demonstrates your inability to answer simple questions.
I can see why you think a test would make people throw up their hands
and run out of the room.

On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:35:36 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/4/18 5:23 PM, wrote:
On 4 Oct 2018 20:52:05 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:30:26 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:



Your statement that psychologists can work without a license really
just depends on what state they are in.


Once again, your educational limitations exceed your reach. If you are
not practicing, you do not need a license. "Work" is a term that opens
the door to many rooms, and in the case of psychologists, those rooms do
not have to involve working as a therapist.

If you are saying they can help design ad campaigns to appeal to a
certain demographic, you are right but if they are seeing patients in
Florida they need some kind of a license, even if they are just bar
tenders or hair dressers.


I've posted several times that if you are not seeing patients, you do not
need a license.

It does call into question how you work being a psychologist if you
are not seeing patients. What are you doing?
Cleaning the office? Answering the phone?


Your raising that question once again demonstrates your ignorance and
disdain for academic study.


How can you do an accredited academic study as a psychologist if not
dealing with patients?

Harry just got caught being wrong again and he is trying to tap dance
his way out of it ... again.
The M.O. is the usual one, insult and diversion.

On 10/4/2018 7:41 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:


2. She is not a psychiatrist.

Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us
believe from her testimony.


And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist?
And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a
license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the
supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a
consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it?


So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what?

Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license
and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone
handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other
trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law.

https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive

If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can
paste it here if you are interested.



I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work.

I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed,
certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but
individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why
the Kentucky law is so significant.
In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber,
carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to
actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license
on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per
enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents
(responsible for compliance).
In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for
decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up
to the IBEW.



I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who
is responsible for them as a licensed electrician.

They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be
a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might
not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in
Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time
frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the
bureaucracy.

Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but
now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical
equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes
and gear.

There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and
skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family.
There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install
and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just
hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates
them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his
specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast.
There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of
them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very
knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I
was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody
at his company had a clue ... including the "license".

I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I
need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally
unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of
small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount
*outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You
plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer
power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage.
I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator
and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator
can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important.


If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main
breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only
have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a
lot of that.


We are doing it for the convenience of being able to plug the generator
in outside when needed (which is rarely) and then put away when not
needed. It's also to make it easy for my 80 year old neighbor who has
the same generator but knows next to nothing about "switch discipline".
Again, the main thing is to run the furnace in the winter.

On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:16:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/4/2018 7:41 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:


2. She is not a psychiatrist.

Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us
believe from her testimony.


And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist?
And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a
license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the
supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a
consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it?


So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what?

Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license
and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone
handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other
trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law.

https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive

If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can
paste it here if you are interested.



I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work.

I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed,
certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but
individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why
the Kentucky law is so significant.
In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber,
carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to
actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license
on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per
enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents
(responsible for compliance).
In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for
decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up
to the IBEW.



I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who
is responsible for them as a licensed electrician.

They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be
a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might
not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in
Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time
frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the
bureaucracy.

Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but
now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical
equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes
and gear.

There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and
skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family.
There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install
and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just
hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates
them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his
specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast.
There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of
them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very
knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I
was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody
at his company had a clue ... including the "license".

I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I
need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally
unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of
small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount
*outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You
plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer
power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage.
I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator
and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator
can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important.


If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main
breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only
have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a
lot of that.


We are doing it for the convenience of being able to plug the generator
in outside when needed (which is rarely) and then put away when not
needed. It's also to make it easy for my 80 year old neighbor who has
the same generator but knows next to nothing about "switch discipline".
Again, the main thing is to run the furnace in the winter.


I agree this is not as attractive with a 120v only generator but mine
does just plug in and runs a lot of my stuff. (No oven, no central air
and no hot water). As long as you do what your daddy used to tell you
and turn off a light when you are not using it, you do well on
everything else with a fairly small generator.

On 10/4/18 8:12 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:35:36 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/4/18 5:23 PM, wrote:
On 4 Oct 2018 20:52:05 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:30:26 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:



Your statement that psychologists can work without a license really
just depends on what state they are in.


Once again, your educational limitations exceed your reach. If you are
not practicing, you do not need a license. "Work" is a term that opens
the door to many rooms, and in the case of psychologists, those rooms do
not have to involve working as a therapist.

If you are saying they can help design ad campaigns to appeal to a
certain demographic, you are right but if they are seeing patients in
Florida they need some kind of a license, even if they are just bar
tenders or hair dressers.


I've posted several times that if you are not seeing patients, you do not
need a license.

It does call into question how you work being a psychologist if you
are not seeing patients. What are you doing?
Cleaning the office? Answering the phone?


Your raising that question once again demonstrates your ignorance and
disdain for academic study.


How can you do an accredited academic study as a psychologist if not
dealing with patients?

Harry just got caught being wrong again and he is trying to tap dance
his way out of it ... again.
The M.O. is the usual one, insult and diversion.


Psychologists have professional employment opportunities that have
nothing to do with treating patients and if they are engaged in those
sorts of activities, there is no need in many of those fields to be
licensed. That you and others here are unaware of that is a reflection
of your ignorance and intellectual laziness. Just to pick two examples,
in many states, industrial and organizational psychologists do not have
to be licensed. If they are not engaged in individual or group practice
on the side, professors of psychology typically don't have to be
licensed in psychology.

How do you do an accredited academic psychology study if you are not
licensed? Let's say your dissertation involves surveying attitudes
towards X, Y, or Z, and you design the survey, pick the audience, mail
the survey to recipients, get the completed surveys back, code the
results and analyze them. You typically need academic credentials to
have the survey accepted, but you don't have to be licensed.

And once again, Fretwell, you have demonstrated why it makes no sense to
"debate" you.