No, I am not a Cobalt owner, but I might be insecure and that might be the
reason I am taking a firm stand without any facts. I have not read "the
Cobalt Report" where can I get one? The only report I have seen is the one
on their web site, and I did not see anything that would suggest it was
designed to show off Cobalts strengths.

J.D. Power and Associates Reports:
Boat Owner Satisfaction Shows Year-Over-Year Increase


Bennington, Cobalt, Correct Craft, Crownline, Grady-White, Ranger and Sea
Ray
Rank Highest in Overall Satisfaction in Seven Major Boat Segments

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: October 30, 2003


WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif.—Boat owners’ overall satisfaction with their new
boat shows a year-over-year increase, with two of the larger-sized-boat
segments—express cruiser and coastal fishing—showing the greatest increase
in product satisfaction, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2003
Boat Competitive Information StudySM released today.

The study covers seven segments: fiberglass bass boats, small runabouts
(16-19 feet), large runabouts (20-29 feet), express cruisers (24-33 feet),
coastal fishing (17-28 feet), pontoons and ski/wakeboard boats. These seven
segments represent a large majority of the total number of power boats sold
in the United States. In addition to providing an analysis of product
satisfaction and quality problems, the study measures several product
factors, including the boat’s exterior styling and craftsmanship; various
features offered by each boat brand; helm and instrument panel; how well the
boat rides and handles; comfort and convenience items; engine and propulsion
system performance; seats; and ease of maintenance.

"The fact that satisfaction has increased across all seven boat segments
surveyed, and increased significantly in a few, is a very good sign that
many more boat manufacturers are beginning to place a premium on satisfying
their customers," said Frank Forkin, partner at J.D. Power and Associates.
"Those boat companies savvy enough to understand the link between customer
satisfaction and financial indicators such as consumer loyalty and advocacy
have the best chance of being successful in the very competitive powerboat
business sector."

Though the actual number of problems per boat has remained fairly consistent
from prior years, consumer perceptions regarding the quality of boats has
improved as more and more consumers indicate they had fewer problems than
they had anticipated.

"This may be due, in part, to sales staff working closer with consumers to
better manager customer expectations," Forkin said.

One area where boat manufacturers can increase overall customer satisfaction
is in the dealership experience, and in particular, the sales and service
process. Boat owners consistently report lower levels of satisfaction with
the sales and service experience than do their counterparts purchasing new
automobiles or motorcycles. Among boat owners who took their boat in for
service, 28 percent had to take it back a second time, with a small
percentage actually reporting their boat was returned with a new problem
caused by the repair shop.

"Boat owners who have to take their boat to the service shop are probably
not very happy," said Eric Sorensen, director of the marine practice at J.D.
Power and Associates. "But, the problem is compounded if they have to take
it back because the problem wasn’t fixed properly the first time, or if it
takes longer than expected to get their boat back on the water."

Among individual boat brands receiving a J.D. Power and Associates award for
customer satisfaction, six repeat as the highest-ranked boat brands in their
segment, with Ranger (fiberglass bass boat), Cobalt (large runabout) and
Grady-White (coastal fishing) leading their respective segments for the
third consecutive year. Correct Craft (ski/wake), Bennington (pontoon) and
Sea Ray (express cruiser) rank highest in their respective segments for the
second straight year. Crownline ranks highest in the small runabout segment.

Fiberglass bass boat segment

Ranger ranks highest in the fiberglass bass boat segment for the third
consecutive year, receiving high marks for exterior, maintenance and
features. For a second consecutive year, Triton and Skeeter, respectively,
closely follow Ranger in the segment rankings.

Small runabout segment

With a substantial year-over-year improvement in overall satisfaction,
Crownline receives strong marks in the small runabout segment for the boat’s
exterior and ride and handling. Chaparral and Four Winns, respectively,
follow Crownline in the segment rankings.

Large runabout segment

Cobalt leads the large runabout segment in every major factor for all major
boat satisfaction components measured, with particularly high marks for
exterior styling and quality. Crownline, which shows a large year-over-year
customer satisfaction improvement, and Sea Ray, respectively, follow Cobalt
in the segment rankings.

Express cruiser boat segment

Sea Ray ranks highest among express cruiser boats for a second consecutive
year. Sea Ray, which makes the largest year-over-year customer satisfaction
improvement among cruisers, receives high ratings from customers for areas
including ride and handling, exterior, and safety and maintenance.

Coastal fishing boat segment

Grady-White ranks highest in the coastal fishing boat segment for the third
consecutive year. Grady-White performs particularly well for the boat’s
exterior and engine and propulsion. Following Grady-White in the rankings
are Boston Whaler and Scout Boats, respectively. Boston Whaler shows a
remarkable year-over-year improvement in customer satisfaction.

Pontoon boat segment

For the second consecutive year, Bennington ranks highest in the pontoon
boat segment Bennington’s success in the pontoon segment is attributed to
strong performance for features, maintenance, safety and warranty. Manitou
and Premier closely follow Bennington in the rankings. Odyssey makes a
dramatic year-over-year overall satisfaction improvement.

Ski/wakeboard segment

Correct Craft performs well in every major factor of overall satisfaction in
the ski/wakeboard segment. Correct Craft receives very high scores in engine
and propulsion, maintenance and boat warranty coverage. Malibu follows
Correct Craft in overall satisfaction.

For the first time in the study, consumers were asked if in the future they
would continue boating as a recreational activity. Nearly all, 96 percent,
indicate they would do so.

"Given the ever-growing number of leisure activities available to consumers,
this is certainly good news for the boating industry," Sorensen said.

The 2003 Boat Competitive Information Study is based on responses from
10,734 consumers who purchased a new 2002 or 2003 model-year boat between
January 2002 and February 2003. Seventy boat brands are included in the
study.

A more comprehensive listing of results by boat brand can be found online at
the J.D. Power Consumer Center at
http://www.jdpower.com/cc/boats/boatratings.jsp

Headquartered in Westlake Village, Calif., J.D. Power and Associates is an
ISO 9001-registered global marketing information services firm operating in
key business sectors including market research, forecasting, consulting,
training and customer satisfaction. Media e-mail contact:
or

No advertising or other promotional use can be made of the information in
this release without the express prior written consent of J.D. Power and
Associates.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Cobalt is considered the best runabout in the industry. It is the most
expensive, well built boat in it's class. Why wouldn't it get the number
one rating? What is so surprising about that? As I said, you are always
spotting black helicopters popping up everywhere you look.

Are you genuinely dense, or merely argumentive?

I recommended that you look at the Cobalt report for lack of objective
format.
Has nothing to do with whether in your opinion Cobalt is the "best"
runabout.

Is that what this is all about? You're an insecure Cobalt owner?

No, I am not a Cobalt owner, but I might be insecure and that might be the
reason I am taking a firm stand without any facts. I have not read "the
Cobalt Report" where can I get one?

Check the JD Powers site. The report may be out of print now, it surfaced here
a year or two ago and was trundled around by a few as the definitive,
objective, and final arbiter about the relative quality of various boat mfgs.
(At the time, there were even a couple of folks who ignored the fact that the
runabout survey was restricted to runabouts and these people were projecting
portions of the results of a "runabout" survey clear up to 35-40 footers).

The report featured a colorful graphic (a #1 IIRC) next to the Cobalt name.
First clue
that the study wasn't purely scientific.

Stop by any vendor selling a product with
a top Powers ranking. Notice the faux cut crystal plaque on display with the
name JD Powers at least as large as the name of the "winner". The plaques are a
marketing gimmick that even the most gullible JD Powers enthusiast should be
able to recognize.

If you sent out another survey, to the same group of people who participated in
the runabout survey, and asked a different set of questions you would get
different results. Now, short of actually doing that we must settle for an
exercise in logic and
hopefully agree that when you change the variables it is not realistic to
expect identical results.

Controlling the questions is an almost foolproof way to influence, if not
absolutely predetermine the results of a survey. When the survey is completed,
Powers needs something to sell.

Gould, The fact that you keep repeating the same statements does not make it
correct. JD Powers has a listing of boats broken down by category at the
following web site:
http://www.jdpower.com/cc/boats/boatratings.jsp

JD Powers has something to sell without resorting to biasing the survey,
that is what you fail to realize. Companies are very interested in the
consumers perception of them, both good and bad, the number 1 label is the
same as Consumer Reports "Best Value" and while there are people who would
disagree with CR ratings, I have never heard anyone say there reports are
deliberately biased.

You seem to have made up your mind, and are not going to allow facts to get
in the way of your viewpoint. Are you insecure or just upset because you
don't own a Cobalt? ; )




"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
No, I am not a Cobalt owner, but I might be insecure and that might be
the
reason I am taking a firm stand without any facts. I have not read "the
Cobalt Report" where can I get one?

Check the JD Powers site. The report may be out of print now, it surfaced
here
a year or two ago and was trundled around by a few as the definitive,
objective, and final arbiter about the relative quality of various boat
mfgs.
(At the time, there were even a couple of folks who ignored the fact that
the
runabout survey was restricted to runabouts and these people were
projecting
portions of the results of a "runabout" survey clear up to 35-40 footers).

The report featured a colorful graphic (a #1 IIRC) next to the Cobalt
name.
First clue
that the study wasn't purely scientific.

Stop by any vendor selling a product with
a top Powers ranking. Notice the faux cut crystal plaque on display with
the
name JD Powers at least as large as the name of the "winner". The plaques
are a
marketing gimmick that even the most gullible JD Powers enthusiast should
be
able to recognize.

If you sent out another survey, to the same group of people who
participated in
the runabout survey, and asked a different set of questions you would get
different results. Now, short of actually doing that we must settle for an
exercise in logic and
hopefully agree that when you change the variables it is not realistic to
expect identical results.

Controlling the questions is an almost foolproof way to influence, if not
absolutely predetermine the results of a survey. When the survey is
completed,
Powers needs something to sell.

"Spam Me Please" wrote in message
news:OY9pb.85137$HS4.692587@attbi_s01...
Gould, The fact that you keep repeating the same statements does not make
it
correct. JD Powers has a listing of boats broken down by category at the
following web site:
http://www.jdpower.com/cc/boats/boatratings.jsp

JD Powers has something to sell without resorting to biasing the survey,
that is what you fail to realize. Companies are very interested in the
consumers perception of them, both good and bad, the number 1 label is the
same as Consumer Reports "Best Value" and while there are people who would
disagree with CR ratings, I have never heard anyone say there reports are
deliberately biased.




The following is a post from JD Powers about how their surveys work. This
was from May 02 from the Trailer Boats Magazine web site.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Hello boaters. I am the director of the J. D. Power and Associates Marine
Study, and I'd be happy to discuss how our program works with anyone who's
interested. There was quite a string of emails in March regarding Bryant's
subscribing to the study. I'll address a few of the misconceptions about
J.D. Power, and I look forward to hearing from anyone and everyone about
what we're up to.
We are surveying some 50,000 owners of boats in six segments this year, with
our 2002 report due out in August. Bass boats, Coastal Fishing (17-28 feet),
Runabouts (16-19 and 20-29 feet), Pontoons, Ski/Wakeboard and Coastal
Cruisers (24-33 feet) are being covered this year, and an engine report will
also be produced covering outboards, sterndrives and inboards by brand and
model.

Manufacturers are included in the study based on how many owners we can mail
out to. We like to have 150 returns per brand per segment for statistical
validity, so with a 28% response rate, we generally look for manufacturers
who produce 450 or more boats per year. We will include smaller builders
under certain circumstances. This year we have 70 boat brands represented,
so we're covering the great majority of the units sold in each of these six
segments.

So whether Bryant or anyone else buys, or subscribes to, our study, if they'
re big enough to qualify, we still survey their owners. That's what gives
our study so much value to our subscribers, in fact; all that competitive
data is used by builders to improve their own product and service.

What we report is not our own analysis or opinion, but the voice of the
consumer. The art here is knowing what questions to ask to elicit
information that is actionable for the boatbuilder. Companies buy our
reports because they contain useful data. Boatbuilders can use the info to
see where their own product comes up short and needs fixing, what not to fix
(since is isn't broken), and precisely where and how the competition is
doing a better job.

Incidentally, a builder like Bryant can buy a copy of our syndicated report
for a little more than half of the $35,000 mentioned, if they take advantage
of various discounts available.

Whether you are a newcomer to boating or an old salt, you may well have no
clue about how well a manufacturer's dealer sales and service network takes
care of its owners. You can own a great boat, with superb construction, a
wonderful hull form and smooth-as-silk propulsion, but if the warranty
service or parts availability is lacking, you won't enjoy the experience of
owning the boat as much as you should. These reports tell us who's who in
the industry, and they're based entirely on survey results from owners like
you.

At www.jdpower.com, you can see the Power Circle rankings of the three boat
segments we surveyed last year. These website rankings are high-level; the
detailed, actionable info is reserved for the manufacturers who pay to put
it to work for them. These rankings are based solely on customer input, and
have nothing to do with who did or didn't buy the reports from us.

Those manufacturers who win in each segment also have the option of paying
for the use of the J.D. Power name in their advertising. When you see a
Cobalt, Grady White or Ranger (or Lexus) ad with the J.D. Power name and
trophy, they purchased the right to use it.

We hope and expect that the public spotlight provided by J.D. Power's entry
into the marine industry results in improved levels of quality and customer
satisfaction across the board. That's certainly been the case in automotive
and other industries, and we look forward to it happening in marine as well.

Thanks, and I look forward to hearing from you.

--------------------
Eric Sorensen
Director, Marine Practice
J.D. Power and Associates


-------------------------------------------------------------------





posted May 15, 2002 01:17 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to all of you for your interest in the J.D. Power and
Associates marine study. I'll answer a few of your questions, in the general
order in which they appear in the string.
1.) We take a similar "snapshot", sample-size-wise, of all the
boatbuilders in a segment. That means we survey (send out questionnaires to)
about the same number of owners per brand per segment. For instance, we don'
t send surveys to 3,000 Bayliner owners and 300 Cobalt owners; once you get
to a certain number of returns, adding sample size is going to have little
if any impact on the overall results. We make sure we're at that baseline
level before we include a brand in any of our syndicated studies.

2.) We find that the very happy and very upset owners, as well as
those in the middle of the road, tend to balance each other out, producing
consistent results among the brands.

3.) The questions are designed to be as neutral as possible, so we don
't "lead the witness", or try to produce one result rather than another.

4.) We've found that there was surprisingly little difference,
statistically, between the responses of owners who'd owned their boats for
shorter or longer periods of time.

5.) We are careful to prevent any "gaming" (for instance, a
manufacturer withholding the names of dissatisfied customers would be
gaming) in the study. As an auditing step, we either get or verify all of
our boat owners' names from an independent, 3rd-party source which has
access to HIN data on nearly all boats sold in the country. If we can't
verify the validity of name source, it isn't included in the study.

6.) There is really no merit to the notion that larger builders
somehow score better. See the 2001 public rankings at www.jdpower.com for
the evidence.

7.) Regarding perception, which is part of what we measure and report
on, the customers' collective perception is the boatbuilder's (and engine
manufacturer's) reality.

--------------------
Eric Sorensen
Director, Marine Practice
J.D. Power and Associates

Bill,
Excellent post, but I guess you just bought into the fallacy that a company
can make money and still conduct an unbiased survey. : )

There are some people who assume all companies are crooks and bias their own
perception of reality based upon that preconceived outlook of the world.


"Billgran" wrote in message
...

"Spam Me Please" wrote in message
news:OY9pb.85137$HS4.692587@attbi_s01...
Gould, The fact that you keep repeating the same statements does not
make
it
correct. JD Powers has a listing of boats broken down by category at
the
following web site:
http://www.jdpower.com/cc/boats/boatratings.jsp

JD Powers has something to sell without resorting to biasing the survey,
that is what you fail to realize. Companies are very interested in the
consumers perception of them, both good and bad, the number 1 label is
the
same as Consumer Reports "Best Value" and while there are people who
would
disagree with CR ratings, I have never heard anyone say there reports
are
deliberately biased.




The following is a post from JD Powers about how their surveys work. This
was from May 02 from the Trailer Boats Magazine web site.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
----
Hello boaters. I am the director of the J. D. Power and Associates Marine
Study, and I'd be happy to discuss how our program works with anyone who's
interested. There was quite a string of emails in March regarding Bryant's
subscribing to the study. I'll address a few of the misconceptions about
J.D. Power, and I look forward to hearing from anyone and everyone about
what we're up to.
We are surveying some 50,000 owners of boats in six segments this year,
with
our 2002 report due out in August. Bass boats, Coastal Fishing (17-28
feet),
Runabouts (16-19 and 20-29 feet), Pontoons, Ski/Wakeboard and Coastal
Cruisers (24-33 feet) are being covered this year, and an engine report
will
also be produced covering outboards, sterndrives and inboards by brand and
model.

Manufacturers are included in the study based on how many owners we can
mail
out to. We like to have 150 returns per brand per segment for statistical
validity, so with a 28% response rate, we generally look for manufacturers
who produce 450 or more boats per year. We will include smaller builders
under certain circumstances. This year we have 70 boat brands represented,
so we're covering the great majority of the units sold in each of these
six
segments.

So whether Bryant or anyone else buys, or subscribes to, our study, if
they'
re big enough to qualify, we still survey their owners. That's what gives
our study so much value to our subscribers, in fact; all that competitive
data is used by builders to improve their own product and service.

What we report is not our own analysis or opinion, but the voice of the
consumer. The art here is knowing what questions to ask to elicit
information that is actionable for the boatbuilder. Companies buy our
reports because they contain useful data. Boatbuilders can use the info to
see where their own product comes up short and needs fixing, what not to
fix
(since is isn't broken), and precisely where and how the competition is
doing a better job.

Incidentally, a builder like Bryant can buy a copy of our syndicated
report
for a little more than half of the $35,000 mentioned, if they take
advantage
of various discounts available.

Whether you are a newcomer to boating or an old salt, you may well have no
clue about how well a manufacturer's dealer sales and service network
takes
care of its owners. You can own a great boat, with superb construction, a
wonderful hull form and smooth-as-silk propulsion, but if the warranty
service or parts availability is lacking, you won't enjoy the experience
of
owning the boat as much as you should. These reports tell us who's who in
the industry, and they're based entirely on survey results from owners
like
you.

At www.jdpower.com, you can see the Power Circle rankings of the three
boat
segments we surveyed last year. These website rankings are high-level; the
detailed, actionable info is reserved for the manufacturers who pay to put
it to work for them. These rankings are based solely on customer input,
and
have nothing to do with who did or didn't buy the reports from us.

Those manufacturers who win in each segment also have the option of paying
for the use of the J.D. Power name in their advertising. When you see a
Cobalt, Grady White or Ranger (or Lexus) ad with the J.D. Power name and
trophy, they purchased the right to use it.

We hope and expect that the public spotlight provided by J.D. Power's
entry
into the marine industry results in improved levels of quality and
customer
satisfaction across the board. That's certainly been the case in
automotive
and other industries, and we look forward to it happening in marine as
well.

Thanks, and I look forward to hearing from you.

--------------------
Eric Sorensen
Director, Marine Practice
J.D. Power and Associates


-------------------------------------------------------------------





posted May 15, 2002 01:17 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to all of you for your interest in the J.D. Power and
Associates marine study. I'll answer a few of your questions, in the
general
order in which they appear in the string.
1.) We take a similar "snapshot", sample-size-wise, of all the
boatbuilders in a segment. That means we survey (send out questionnaires
to)
about the same number of owners per brand per segment. For instance, we
don'
t send surveys to 3,000 Bayliner owners and 300 Cobalt owners; once you
get
to a certain number of returns, adding sample size is going to have little
if any impact on the overall results. We make sure we're at that baseline
level before we include a brand in any of our syndicated studies.

2.) We find that the very happy and very upset owners, as well as
those in the middle of the road, tend to balance each other out, producing
consistent results among the brands.

3.) The questions are designed to be as neutral as possible, so we
don
't "lead the witness", or try to produce one result rather than another.

4.) We've found that there was surprisingly little difference,
statistically, between the responses of owners who'd owned their boats for
shorter or longer periods of time.

5.) We are careful to prevent any "gaming" (for instance, a
manufacturer withholding the names of dissatisfied customers would be
gaming) in the study. As an auditing step, we either get or verify all of
our boat owners' names from an independent, 3rd-party source which has
access to HIN data on nearly all boats sold in the country. If we can't
verify the validity of name source, it isn't included in the study.

6.) There is really no merit to the notion that larger builders
somehow score better. See the 2001 public rankings at www.jdpower.com for
the evidence.

7.) Regarding perception, which is part of what we measure and
report
on, the customers' collective perception is the boatbuilder's (and engine
manufacturer's) reality.

--------------------
Eric Sorensen
Director, Marine Practice
J.D. Power and Associates

Incidentally, a builder like Bryant can buy a copy of our syndicated
report
for a little more than half of the $35,000 mentioned, if they take
advantage
of various discounts available.

These website rankings are high-level; the
detailed, actionable info is reserved for the manufacturers who pay to put
it to work for them.

Those manufacturers who win in each segment also have the option of paying
for the use of the J.D. Power name in their advertising. When you see a
Cobalt, Grady White or Ranger (or Lexus) ad with the J.D. Power name and
trophy, they purchased the right to use it.

And that's how the company makes its money. (At least according to Eric
Sorensen of J.D. Power and Associates)

the fact that JD Power makes money and sells the right to use the JD Powers
name in their advertisements does not mean they bias the results.

Any company who wins the #1 label is going to be tickled to death to pay
them $35,000, heck even Bayliner who is cheap on everything would pay
$35,000 to use JD Powers name.

Don't take this personal Gould, but you are idiot who see black helicopters
flying all around you.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Incidentally, a builder like Bryant can buy a copy of our syndicated
report
for a little more than half of the $35,000 mentioned, if they take
advantage
of various discounts available.

These website rankings are high-level; the
detailed, actionable info is reserved for the manufacturers who pay to
put
it to work for them.

Those manufacturers who win in each segment also have the option of
paying
for the use of the J.D. Power name in their advertising. When you see a
Cobalt, Grady White or Ranger (or Lexus) ad with the J.D. Power name
and
trophy, they purchased the right to use it.

And that's how the company makes its money. (At least according to Eric
Sorensen of J.D. Power and Associates)

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...


Controlling the questions is an almost foolproof way to influence, if not
absolutely predetermine the results of a survey. When the survey is
completed,
Powers needs something to sell.


If you need more proof, look at political polls. Every major player in the
California election had polls showing him/her ahead of the competition but
in the end it wasn't even close.
Boat polls, political polls, all the same, all BS!
Gordon

GAZ,
The question isn't if polls can be biased, everyone knows they can be. The
question isn't if boating polls and mag articles are designed to highlight
the positive aspects of a particular boat. The question is does JD Powers
bias their surveys so one manufacturer will do better on the survey than
another. Not only has no one ever shown any proof that it is done, but if
it was, all the manufacturers who were on the low end of the survey would
emphasize how bias they are. JD Powers goes out of their way not to bias
the survey because they want to make money for a long time. To do anything
else would be very short sighted.


"GAZ" wrote in message
...

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...


Controlling the questions is an almost foolproof way to influence, if
not
absolutely predetermine the results of a survey. When the survey is
completed,
Powers needs something to sell.


If you need more proof, look at political polls. Every major player in
the
California election had polls showing him/her ahead of the competition but
in the end it wasn't even close.
Boat polls, political polls, all the same, all BS!
Gordon