Chuck,

Flames aside, my question remains unanswered. Realize you have no obligation
to defend your position, but IMO if everyone included in the survey pays for
the survey all are entitled to a result.

If Evinrude, Yamaha, and Mercury ALL pay for a survey there must be a ranking
at the end of the survey. In this case Evinrude wins, no?

If the above is true, how do you explain your premise? Under the scenario you
described no one would fail to be first, no?

I suspect you may have reached an incorrect conclusion on this issue, senor.
Comment?

Butch

Chuck,

Flames aside, my question remains unanswered. Realize you have no obligation
to defend your position, but IMO if everyone included in the survey pays for
the survey all are entitled to a result.

If Evinrude, Yamaha, and Mercury ALL pay for a survey there must be a ranking
at the end of the survey. In this case Evinrude wins, no?

If the above is true, how do you explain your premise? Under the scenario
you
described no one would fail to be first, no?

I suspect you may have reached an incorrect conclusion on this issue, senor.
Comment?

Butch


Powers surveys for a couple of different objectives.

First, if you sign up with JD Powers to survey your recently delivered
customers (or more likely, the manufacturer will do so), you will get a report
reflecting what the surveys of your specific customers said. And you will pay.
And nobody else will know what your customers said.

For this kind of statistic to be meaningful to a business, one has to know how
the numbers compare to the competition, but the comparison numbers that are
furnished for comparison are typically expressed as an aggregate......(or they
were 10-15 years ago when I used to get the reports of customer surveys)

Second, you can contract with JD Powers to conduct a "survey" showing how your
trademark compares to others in the industry as far as customer satisfaction
and perception of quality goes. Only the contracting company will pay for such
a survey. Any guesses how the results will turn out?

In any survey, you can control the answers you will get by the way you ask the
questions.

Again, look at that Cobalt boat survey.
Very typical.

Cobalt is considered the best runabout in the industry. It is the most
expensive, well built boat in it's class. Why wouldn't it get the number
one rating? What is so surprising about that? As I said, you are always
spotting black helicopters popping up everywhere you look.


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Chuck,

Flames aside, my question remains unanswered. Realize you have no
obligation
to defend your position, but IMO if everyone included in the survey pays
for
the survey all are entitled to a result.

If Evinrude, Yamaha, and Mercury ALL pay for a survey there must be a
ranking
at the end of the survey. In this case Evinrude wins, no?

If the above is true, how do you explain your premise? Under the
scenario
you
described no one would fail to be first, no?

I suspect you may have reached an incorrect conclusion on this issue,
senor.
Comment?

Butch


Powers surveys for a couple of different objectives.

First, if you sign up with JD Powers to survey your recently delivered
customers (or more likely, the manufacturer will do so), you will get a
report
reflecting what the surveys of your specific customers said. And you will
pay.
And nobody else will know what your customers said.

For this kind of statistic to be meaningful to a business, one has to know
how
the numbers compare to the competition, but the comparison numbers that
are
furnished for comparison are typically expressed as an aggregate......(or
they
were 10-15 years ago when I used to get the reports of customer surveys)

Second, you can contract with JD Powers to conduct a "survey" showing how
your
trademark compares to others in the industry as far as customer
satisfaction
and perception of quality goes. Only the contracting company will pay for
such
a survey. Any guesses how the results will turn out?

In any survey, you can control the answers you will get by the way you ask
the
questions.

Again, look at that Cobalt boat survey.
Very typical.

Cobalt is considered the best runabout in the industry. It is the most
expensive, well built boat in it's class. Why wouldn't it get the number
one rating? What is so surprising about that? As I said, you are always
spotting black helicopters popping up everywhere you look.

Are you genuinely dense, or merely argumentive?

I recommended that you look at the Cobalt report for lack of objective format.
Has nothing to do with whether in your opinion Cobalt is the "best" runabout.

Is that what this is all about? You're an insecure Cobalt owner?

No, I am not a Cobalt owner, but I might be insecure and that might be the
reason I am taking a firm stand without any facts. I have not read "the
Cobalt Report" where can I get one? The only report I have seen is the one
on their web site, and I did not see anything that would suggest it was
designed to show off Cobalts strengths.

J.D. Power and Associates Reports:
Boat Owner Satisfaction Shows Year-Over-Year Increase


Bennington, Cobalt, Correct Craft, Crownline, Grady-White, Ranger and Sea
Ray
Rank Highest in Overall Satisfaction in Seven Major Boat Segments

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: October 30, 2003


WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif.—Boat owners’ overall satisfaction with their new
boat shows a year-over-year increase, with two of the larger-sized-boat
segments—express cruiser and coastal fishing—showing the greatest increase
in product satisfaction, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2003
Boat Competitive Information StudySM released today.

The study covers seven segments: fiberglass bass boats, small runabouts
(16-19 feet), large runabouts (20-29 feet), express cruisers (24-33 feet),
coastal fishing (17-28 feet), pontoons and ski/wakeboard boats. These seven
segments represent a large majority of the total number of power boats sold
in the United States. In addition to providing an analysis of product
satisfaction and quality problems, the study measures several product
factors, including the boat’s exterior styling and craftsmanship; various
features offered by each boat brand; helm and instrument panel; how well the
boat rides and handles; comfort and convenience items; engine and propulsion
system performance; seats; and ease of maintenance.

"The fact that satisfaction has increased across all seven boat segments
surveyed, and increased significantly in a few, is a very good sign that
many more boat manufacturers are beginning to place a premium on satisfying
their customers," said Frank Forkin, partner at J.D. Power and Associates.
"Those boat companies savvy enough to understand the link between customer
satisfaction and financial indicators such as consumer loyalty and advocacy
have the best chance of being successful in the very competitive powerboat
business sector."

Though the actual number of problems per boat has remained fairly consistent
from prior years, consumer perceptions regarding the quality of boats has
improved as more and more consumers indicate they had fewer problems than
they had anticipated.

"This may be due, in part, to sales staff working closer with consumers to
better manager customer expectations," Forkin said.

One area where boat manufacturers can increase overall customer satisfaction
is in the dealership experience, and in particular, the sales and service
process. Boat owners consistently report lower levels of satisfaction with
the sales and service experience than do their counterparts purchasing new
automobiles or motorcycles. Among boat owners who took their boat in for
service, 28 percent had to take it back a second time, with a small
percentage actually reporting their boat was returned with a new problem
caused by the repair shop.

"Boat owners who have to take their boat to the service shop are probably
not very happy," said Eric Sorensen, director of the marine practice at J.D.
Power and Associates. "But, the problem is compounded if they have to take
it back because the problem wasn’t fixed properly the first time, or if it
takes longer than expected to get their boat back on the water."

Among individual boat brands receiving a J.D. Power and Associates award for
customer satisfaction, six repeat as the highest-ranked boat brands in their
segment, with Ranger (fiberglass bass boat), Cobalt (large runabout) and
Grady-White (coastal fishing) leading their respective segments for the
third consecutive year. Correct Craft (ski/wake), Bennington (pontoon) and
Sea Ray (express cruiser) rank highest in their respective segments for the
second straight year. Crownline ranks highest in the small runabout segment.

Fiberglass bass boat segment

Ranger ranks highest in the fiberglass bass boat segment for the third
consecutive year, receiving high marks for exterior, maintenance and
features. For a second consecutive year, Triton and Skeeter, respectively,
closely follow Ranger in the segment rankings.

Small runabout segment

With a substantial year-over-year improvement in overall satisfaction,
Crownline receives strong marks in the small runabout segment for the boat’s
exterior and ride and handling. Chaparral and Four Winns, respectively,
follow Crownline in the segment rankings.

Large runabout segment

Cobalt leads the large runabout segment in every major factor for all major
boat satisfaction components measured, with particularly high marks for
exterior styling and quality. Crownline, which shows a large year-over-year
customer satisfaction improvement, and Sea Ray, respectively, follow Cobalt
in the segment rankings.

Express cruiser boat segment

Sea Ray ranks highest among express cruiser boats for a second consecutive
year. Sea Ray, which makes the largest year-over-year customer satisfaction
improvement among cruisers, receives high ratings from customers for areas
including ride and handling, exterior, and safety and maintenance.

Coastal fishing boat segment

Grady-White ranks highest in the coastal fishing boat segment for the third
consecutive year. Grady-White performs particularly well for the boat’s
exterior and engine and propulsion. Following Grady-White in the rankings
are Boston Whaler and Scout Boats, respectively. Boston Whaler shows a
remarkable year-over-year improvement in customer satisfaction.

Pontoon boat segment

For the second consecutive year, Bennington ranks highest in the pontoon
boat segment Bennington’s success in the pontoon segment is attributed to
strong performance for features, maintenance, safety and warranty. Manitou
and Premier closely follow Bennington in the rankings. Odyssey makes a
dramatic year-over-year overall satisfaction improvement.

Ski/wakeboard segment

Correct Craft performs well in every major factor of overall satisfaction in
the ski/wakeboard segment. Correct Craft receives very high scores in engine
and propulsion, maintenance and boat warranty coverage. Malibu follows
Correct Craft in overall satisfaction.

For the first time in the study, consumers were asked if in the future they
would continue boating as a recreational activity. Nearly all, 96 percent,
indicate they would do so.

"Given the ever-growing number of leisure activities available to consumers,
this is certainly good news for the boating industry," Sorensen said.

The 2003 Boat Competitive Information Study is based on responses from
10,734 consumers who purchased a new 2002 or 2003 model-year boat between
January 2002 and February 2003. Seventy boat brands are included in the
study.

A more comprehensive listing of results by boat brand can be found online at
the J.D. Power Consumer Center at
http://www.jdpower.com/cc/boats/boatratings.jsp

Headquartered in Westlake Village, Calif., J.D. Power and Associates is an
ISO 9001-registered global marketing information services firm operating in
key business sectors including market research, forecasting, consulting,
training and customer satisfaction. Media e-mail contact:
or

No advertising or other promotional use can be made of the information in
this release without the express prior written consent of J.D. Power and
Associates.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Cobalt is considered the best runabout in the industry. It is the most
expensive, well built boat in it's class. Why wouldn't it get the number
one rating? What is so surprising about that? As I said, you are always
spotting black helicopters popping up everywhere you look.

Are you genuinely dense, or merely argumentive?

I recommended that you look at the Cobalt report for lack of objective
format.
Has nothing to do with whether in your opinion Cobalt is the "best"
runabout.

Is that what this is all about? You're an insecure Cobalt owner?

No, I am not a Cobalt owner, but I might be insecure and that might be the
reason I am taking a firm stand without any facts. I have not read "the
Cobalt Report" where can I get one?

Check the JD Powers site. The report may be out of print now, it surfaced here
a year or two ago and was trundled around by a few as the definitive,
objective, and final arbiter about the relative quality of various boat mfgs.
(At the time, there were even a couple of folks who ignored the fact that the
runabout survey was restricted to runabouts and these people were projecting
portions of the results of a "runabout" survey clear up to 35-40 footers).

The report featured a colorful graphic (a #1 IIRC) next to the Cobalt name.
First clue
that the study wasn't purely scientific.

Stop by any vendor selling a product with
a top Powers ranking. Notice the faux cut crystal plaque on display with the
name JD Powers at least as large as the name of the "winner". The plaques are a
marketing gimmick that even the most gullible JD Powers enthusiast should be
able to recognize.

If you sent out another survey, to the same group of people who participated in
the runabout survey, and asked a different set of questions you would get
different results. Now, short of actually doing that we must settle for an
exercise in logic and
hopefully agree that when you change the variables it is not realistic to
expect identical results.

Controlling the questions is an almost foolproof way to influence, if not
absolutely predetermine the results of a survey. When the survey is completed,
Powers needs something to sell.

Gould, The fact that you keep repeating the same statements does not make it
correct. JD Powers has a listing of boats broken down by category at the
following web site:
http://www.jdpower.com/cc/boats/boatratings.jsp

JD Powers has something to sell without resorting to biasing the survey,
that is what you fail to realize. Companies are very interested in the
consumers perception of them, both good and bad, the number 1 label is the
same as Consumer Reports "Best Value" and while there are people who would
disagree with CR ratings, I have never heard anyone say there reports are
deliberately biased.

You seem to have made up your mind, and are not going to allow facts to get
in the way of your viewpoint. Are you insecure or just upset because you
don't own a Cobalt? ; )




"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
No, I am not a Cobalt owner, but I might be insecure and that might be
the
reason I am taking a firm stand without any facts. I have not read "the
Cobalt Report" where can I get one?

Check the JD Powers site. The report may be out of print now, it surfaced
here
a year or two ago and was trundled around by a few as the definitive,
objective, and final arbiter about the relative quality of various boat
mfgs.
(At the time, there were even a couple of folks who ignored the fact that
the
runabout survey was restricted to runabouts and these people were
projecting
portions of the results of a "runabout" survey clear up to 35-40 footers).

The report featured a colorful graphic (a #1 IIRC) next to the Cobalt
name.
First clue
that the study wasn't purely scientific.

Stop by any vendor selling a product with
a top Powers ranking. Notice the faux cut crystal plaque on display with
the
name JD Powers at least as large as the name of the "winner". The plaques
are a
marketing gimmick that even the most gullible JD Powers enthusiast should
be
able to recognize.

If you sent out another survey, to the same group of people who
participated in
the runabout survey, and asked a different set of questions you would get
different results. Now, short of actually doing that we must settle for an
exercise in logic and
hopefully agree that when you change the variables it is not realistic to
expect identical results.

Controlling the questions is an almost foolproof way to influence, if not
absolutely predetermine the results of a survey. When the survey is
completed,
Powers needs something to sell.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...


Controlling the questions is an almost foolproof way to influence, if not
absolutely predetermine the results of a survey. When the survey is
completed,
Powers needs something to sell.


If you need more proof, look at political polls. Every major player in the
California election had polls showing him/her ahead of the competition but
in the end it wasn't even close.
Boat polls, political polls, all the same, all BS!
Gordon