On 3/31/2018 4:38 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 3/31/18 3:57 PM, wrote:
On 31 Mar 2018 17:52:42 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 09:50:35 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 3/31/18 9:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Just been reading the various reviews on the 2018 Lincoln Navigator.

Ford pulled out all the stops and has blown the competition including
theÂ* Cadillac Escalade and Infiniti QX80Â* away with this one.

3.5L twin turbo, 450hp, over 500 lb ft of torque, 10 speed
transmission,
Â*Â*6 adaptive performance settings, premier seating for all and an
interior fit and finish that is superior to any of it's competition.

Quite a price tag though.Â* Starts at $76K.Â* $96K typical.

Mrs.E. loves Navigators.Â* She has had three of them in the past.
Gotta keep her away from this one.





Heheh...what does that barge weigh, three tons?, and with a 3.5 liter
engine, the same size as in my little truck and a Toyota with V6? With
twin turbos? Not an engine that is going to last long, pushing an
aircraft carrier.

It does 0-60 in a little over 6 seconds. That doesn't seem to be
underpowered. I doubt Mrs E will keep it long enough to wear out the
engine.


I wasn’t questioning the horsepower output, but the wisdom of powering a
three ton car with a small engine.

Now you sound like those 60s-70s guys who said big block V-8s were the
only way to go.
If this thing performs well and lasts as long as he plans on keeping
it, why not.
My FIL went from a Northstar V-8 to a 2 liter turbo in his "always
red" CTsumpin Cadillac and he says he barely noticed the difference


Yeah, I still believe if you have a big, heavy, car or truck, you want a
substantially sized engine in it. I was at first reluctant to buy a new
Toyota Tacoma because it only had a 3.5 liter engine, but it is a
relatively lightweight truck and I didn't plan on towing anything
heavier than a lawn/garden trailer, and that only occasionally. The six
speed manual tranny truck is certainly peppy enough, but I drive with a
light foot and to the best of my recollection, I've had the engine up
past 3000 rpms only once. Typically, I'm driving at around 2000 rpms for
60 - 65 mph. The state road limit around here is 50-55...and the county
mounties ain't reluctant to ticket you if you are more than 5 mph over
the posted limit.


I think your thinking is obsolete. Most of the newer vehicles today
have a V-6 (even pickup trucks) with many transmission gears instead of
the old 3 or 4 with maybe an overdrive. The old adage of "there's no
replacement for displacement" has been retired.

Another factor comparing the old 60's, 70's era V8 to modern engines.
A big block V8 in the 60's was designed and geared to produce the most
HP and torque fairly low on the RPM curve. Modern engines are designed
to produce max HP and torque much higher. There's a benefit to that in
that it doesn't "lug" under a heavy load.

My Canyon is rated at 308 HP but it's at 6,800 RPM. Max torque is 275
lb ft at 4,000 RPM. I think the engine in the '67 GTO I had would fly
apart at 6,800 RPM unless it was specially rebuilt for racing or something.

Another feature in modern engines is variable valve timing that
optimizes engine performance for it's load.

On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 18:05:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



I think your thinking is obsolete. Most of the newer vehicles today
have a V-6 (even pickup trucks) with many transmission gears instead of
the old 3 or 4 with maybe an overdrive. The old adage of "there's no
replacement for displacement" has been retired.

Another factor comparing the old 60's, 70's era V8 to modern engines.
A big block V8 in the 60's was designed and geared to produce the most
HP and torque fairly low on the RPM curve. Modern engines are designed
to produce max HP and torque much higher. There's a benefit to that in
that it doesn't "lug" under a heavy load.

My Canyon is rated at 308 HP but it's at 6,800 RPM. Max torque is 275
lb ft at 4,000 RPM. I think the engine in the '67 GTO I had would fly
apart at 6,800 RPM unless it was specially rebuilt for racing or something.

Another feature in modern engines is variable valve timing that
optimizes engine performance for it's load.


That valve timing trick in my Prelude really makes a difference. It
kicks in at 5k RPM and it is like the secondaries opening on the old
Quadrajet carb.
I agree the RPMs on these engines are nothing like the 60s.
My 327 350HP in my 76 Chevelle (called 325) was redlined at around
6000 RPM and at that speed the valves floated, it started burping and
you slowed back down. With the 456 rear end, that was about 105 MPH
but you could get it in around a quarter mile. (the point)
It was another car that ran at 4000+ RPM on the beltway but it came
apart in 43,000 miles. Mr Goodwrench fixed it on warranty.

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 3/31/18 9:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Just been reading the various reviews on the 2018 Lincoln Navigator.

Ford pulled out all the stops and has blown the competition including
the Cadillac Escalade and Infiniti QX80 away with this one.

3.5L twin turbo, 450hp, over 500 lb ft of torque, 10 speed
transmission, 6 adaptive performance settings, premier seating for
all and an interior fit and finish that is superior to any of it's
competition.

Quite a price tag though. Starts at $76K. $96K typical.

Mrs.E. loves Navigators. She has had three of them in the past.
Gotta keep her away from this one.





Heheh...what does that barge weigh, three tons?, and with a 3.5 liter
engine, the same size as in my little truck and a Toyota with V6? With
twin turbos? Not an engine that is going to last long, pushing an
aircraft carrier.


The auto industry has come a long way. Look at all of the 4cyl 2 liter
turbos moving large cars now. Years ago a turbo was an expense waiting
to happen. Now they are very common and built well.

"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:

Just been reading the various reviews on the 2018 Lincoln Navigator.

Ford pulled out all the stops and has blown the competition including
the Cadillac Escalade and Infiniti QX80 away with this one.

3.5L twin turbo, 450hp, over 500 lb ft of torque, 10 speed transmission,
6 adaptive performance settings, premier seating for all and an
interior fit and finish that is superior to any of it's competition.

Quite a price tag though. Starts at $76K. $96K typical.

Mrs.E. loves Navigators. She has had three of them in the past.
Gotta keep her away from this one.





Until she can see out the back of one.
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On 3/31/2018 12:04 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:

Just been reading the various reviews on the 2018 Lincoln Navigator.

Ford pulled out all the stops and has blown the competition including
the Cadillac Escalade and Infiniti QX80 away with this one.

3.5L twin turbo, 450hp, over 500 lb ft of torque, 10 speed transmission,
6 adaptive performance settings, premier seating for all and an
interior fit and finish that is superior to any of it's competition.

Quite a price tag though. Starts at $76K. $96K typical.

Mrs.E. loves Navigators. She has had three of them in the past.
Gotta keep her away from this one.





Until she can see out the back of one.



She only worries about what's in front of her and often doesn't take
that too seriously.

On 3/31/18 12:04 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:

Just been reading the various reviews on the 2018 Lincoln Navigator.

Ford pulled out all the stops and has blown the competition including
the Cadillac Escalade and Infiniti QX80 away with this one.

3.5L twin turbo, 450hp, over 500 lb ft of torque, 10 speed transmission,
6 adaptive performance settings, premier seating for all and an
interior fit and finish that is superior to any of it's competition.

Quite a price tag though. Starts at $76K. $96K typical.

Mrs.E. loves Navigators. She has had three of them in the past.
Gotta keep her away from this one.





Until she can see out the back of one.


Base curb weight, 5,926 pounds. I guessed three tons. Damned close. The
"L" model is more than three tons. Crikey. It weighs more than a new
Rolls-Royce, which has a Twin Turbo Premium Unleaded V-12 engine with
twice the displacement. The Rolls puts out 624 bhp.

Keyser Soze
- show quoted text -
Base curb weight, 5,926 pounds. I guessed three tons. Damned close. The
"L" model is more than three tons. Crikey. It weighs more than a new
Rolls-Royce, which has a Twin Turbo Premium Unleaded V-12 engine with
twice the displacement. The Rolls puts out 624 bhp.

....

Put things in perspective Harry. The best Lincoln costs less than a 3rd of the cheapest Of today’s Rolls offerings.

https://www.caranddriver.com/rolls-royce

On 3/31/2018 12:19 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 3/31/18 12:04 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:

Just been reading the various reviews on the 2018 Lincoln Navigator.

Ford pulled out all the stops and has blown the competition including
theÂ* Cadillac Escalade and Infiniti QX80Â* away with this one.

3.5L twin turbo, 450hp, over 500 lb ft of torque, 10 speed transmission,
Â*Â* 6 adaptive performance settings, premier seating for all and an
interior fit and finish that is superior to any of it's competition.

Quite a price tag though.Â* Starts at $76K.Â* $96K typical.

Mrs.E. loves Navigators.Â* She has had three of them in the past.
Gotta keep her away from this one.





Until she can see out the back of one.


Base curb weight, 5,926 pounds. I guessed three tons. Damned close. The
"L" model is more than three tons. Crikey. It weighs more than a new
Rolls-Royce, which has a Twin Turbo Premium Unleaded V-12 engine with
twice the displacement. The Rolls puts out 624 bhp.


Only found one model with that hp rating ... the Rolls-Royce Wraith.
Pricing *starts* at $312K.

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 3/31/18 12:04 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:

Just been reading the various reviews on the 2018 Lincoln Navigator.

Ford pulled out all the stops and has blown the competition including
the Cadillac Escalade and Infiniti QX80 away with this one.

3.5L twin turbo, 450hp, over 500 lb ft of torque, 10 speed
transmission,
6 adaptive performance settings, premier seating for all and an
interior fit and finish that is superior to any of it's competition.

Quite a price tag though. Starts at $76K. $96K typical.

Mrs.E. loves Navigators. She has had three of them in the past.
Gotta keep her away from this one.





Until she can see out the back of one.


Base curb weight, 5,926 pounds. I guessed three tons. Damned close.
The "L" model is more than three tons. Crikey. It weighs more than a
new Rolls-Royce, which has a Twin Turbo Premium Unleaded V-12 engine
with twice the displacement. The Rolls puts out 624 bhp.


What's your point?

On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 09:05:06 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Just been reading the various reviews on the 2018 Lincoln Navigator.

Ford pulled out all the stops and has blown the competition including
the Cadillac Escalade and Infiniti QX80 away with this one.

3.5L twin turbo, 450hp, over 500 lb ft of torque, 10 speed transmission,
6 adaptive performance settings, premier seating for all and an
interior fit and finish that is superior to any of it's competition.

Quite a price tag though. Starts at $76K. $96K typical.

Mrs.E. loves Navigators. She has had three of them in the past.
Gotta keep her away from this one.



===

They must be really boosting the heck out of that thing with the
turbos to get that kind of power and torque from a 210 cubic inch
engine. I wouldn't want to be towing up a lot of hills with it but I
suppose most people will not use it that way. It will be interesting
to see if head gasket failures start showing up as a weak link in the
reliability reports. My wife's E320 has a slightly smaller V6 turbo
diesel which is rated at much less horsepower but 400 ft-lbs of
torque. It really launches when the turbo kicks in.

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