On 3/31/2018 1:52 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 09:50:35 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 3/31/18 9:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Just been reading the various reviews on the 2018 Lincoln Navigator.

Ford pulled out all the stops and has blown the competition including
theÂ* Cadillac Escalade and Infiniti QX80Â* away with this one.

3.5L twin turbo, 450hp, over 500 lb ft of torque, 10 speed transmission,
Â*6 adaptive performance settings, premier seating for all and an
interior fit and finish that is superior to any of it's competition.

Quite a price tag though.Â* Starts at $76K.Â* $96K typical.

Mrs.E. loves Navigators.Â* She has had three of them in the past.
Gotta keep her away from this one.





Heheh...what does that barge weigh, three tons?, and with a 3.5 liter
engine, the same size as in my little truck and a Toyota with V6? With
twin turbos? Not an engine that is going to last long, pushing an
aircraft carrier.

It does 0-60 in a little over 6 seconds. That doesn't seem to be
underpowered. I doubt Mrs E will keep it long enough to wear out the
engine.


I wasn’t questioning the horsepower output, but the wisdom of powering a
three ton car with a small engine.


I don't know enough about cars to comment intelligently however I don't
think today's engines suffer from the "worn out" issues of those of the
past. Geared properly (10 speed transmission) I don't think the
Navigator V6 is working much harder than the V6 in my Canyon that has an
eight speed transmission or the V6 in your Tacoma. The twin turbo makes
it more complex for sure but modern turbos have a decent reputation for
longevity. Lots of cars and trucks have them.

In the old days the main reason an engine "wore out" (except for a
catastrophic failure) was due to worn rings, cylinders and valves.
Their condition was manifested by burning oil, leaving blue clouds of
smoke and running rough with a cylinder or two missing due to lack of
compression. You don't see that much anymore due to advances in
material sciences and hard coatings on the cylinder walls, rings and
valves. Lots of cars and trucks are used daily now-a-days with 150K to
200K miles on them and they don't burn any oil.

On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 17:39:12 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 3/31/18 5:30 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/31/2018 1:52 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
justan wrote:
Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 3/31/18 9:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Just been reading the various reviews on the 2018 Lincoln Navigator.

Ford pulled out all the stops and has blown the competition including
the* Cadillac Escalade and Infiniti QX80* away with this one.

3.5L twin turbo, 450hp, over 500 lb ft of torque, 10 speed
transmission,
6 adaptive performance settings, premier seating for all and an
interior fit and finish that is superior to any of it's competition.

Quite a price tag though.* Starts at $76K.* $96K typical.

Mrs.E. loves Navigators.* She has had three of them in the past.
Gotta keep her away from this one.





Heheh...what does that barge weigh, three tons?, and with a 3.5 liter
engine, the same size as in my little truck and a Toyota with V6? With
twin turbos? Not an engine that is going to last long, pushing an
aircraft carrier.


Why would someone who can't afford one be concerned about the
* weight and engine longevity.

Why would I want a whale of a car?



I don't.* Mrs.E. is the one who likes them.



Even with the visual aids, it must be a bitch to park that aircraft
carrier. I watched a video review of it, though...has a really nice
interior. It would be a nice car for a long trip on the Interstate...but
I really despise those sorts of long drives. Hell, five to five and a
half hours to New Haven or nine and a half hours to Hilton Head is the
limit of my tolerance for that sort of driving.


===

You should be able to make New Haven in 3 or 4 days with that
imaginary twin diesel yacht of yours. There's nothing quite like that
entrance into New York harbor as you go north on the Jersey coast.

---
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On 3/31/18 5:46 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/31/2018 1:52 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 09:50:35 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 3/31/18 9:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Just been reading the various reviews on the 2018 Lincoln Navigator.

Ford pulled out all the stops and has blown the competition including
theÂ* Cadillac Escalade and Infiniti QX80Â* away with this one.

3.5L twin turbo, 450hp, over 500 lb ft of torque, 10 speed
transmission,
Â*Â*6 adaptive performance settings, premier seating for all and an
interior fit and finish that is superior to any of it's competition.

Quite a price tag though.Â* Starts at $76K.Â* $96K typical.

Mrs.E. loves Navigators.Â* She has had three of them in the past.
Gotta keep her away from this one.





Heheh...what does that barge weigh, three tons?, and with a 3.5 liter
engine, the same size as in my little truck and a Toyota with V6? With
twin turbos? Not an engine that is going to last long, pushing an
aircraft carrier.

It does 0-60 in a little over 6 seconds. That doesn't seem to be
underpowered. I doubt Mrs E will keep it long enough to wear out the
engine.


I wasn’t questioning the horsepower output, but the wisdom of powering a
three ton car with a small engine.


I don't know enough about cars to comment intelligently however I don't
think today's engines suffer from the "worn out" issues of those of the
past.Â* Geared properly (10 speed transmission)Â* I don't think the
Navigator V6 is working much harder than the V6 in my Canyon that has an
eight speed transmission or the V6 in your Tacoma.Â* The twin turbo makes
it more complex for sure but modern turbos have a decent reputation for
longevity. Lots of cars and trucks have them.

In the old days the main reason an engine "wore out" (except for a
catastrophic failure) was due to worn rings, cylinders and valves.
Their condition was manifested by burning oil, leaving blue clouds of
smoke and running rough with a cylinder or two missing due to lack of
compression.Â* You don't see that much anymore due to advances in
material sciences and hard coatings on the cylinder walls, rings and
valves.Â* Lots of cars and trucks are used daily now-a-days with 150K to
200K miles on them and they don't burn any oil.





You probably are right. Pretty soon we'll be seeing one liter engines
zipping "funny cars" down the dragstrip!

On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 09:05:06 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Just been reading the various reviews on the 2018 Lincoln Navigator.

Ford pulled out all the stops and has blown the competition including
the Cadillac Escalade and Infiniti QX80 away with this one.

3.5L twin turbo, 450hp, over 500 lb ft of torque, 10 speed transmission,
6 adaptive performance settings, premier seating for all and an
interior fit and finish that is superior to any of it's competition.

Quite a price tag though. Starts at $76K. $96K typical.

Mrs.E. loves Navigators. She has had three of them in the past.
Gotta keep her away from this one.



===

They must be really boosting the heck out of that thing with the
turbos to get that kind of power and torque from a 210 cubic inch
engine. I wouldn't want to be towing up a lot of hills with it but I
suppose most people will not use it that way. It will be interesting
to see if head gasket failures start showing up as a weak link in the
reliability reports. My wife's E320 has a slightly smaller V6 turbo
diesel which is rated at much less horsepower but 400 ft-lbs of
torque. It really launches when the turbo kicks in.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

On 3/31/2018 4:38 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 3/31/18 3:57 PM, wrote:
On 31 Mar 2018 17:52:42 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 09:50:35 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 3/31/18 9:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Just been reading the various reviews on the 2018 Lincoln Navigator.

Ford pulled out all the stops and has blown the competition including
theÂ* Cadillac Escalade and Infiniti QX80Â* away with this one.

3.5L twin turbo, 450hp, over 500 lb ft of torque, 10 speed
transmission,
Â*Â*6 adaptive performance settings, premier seating for all and an
interior fit and finish that is superior to any of it's competition.

Quite a price tag though.Â* Starts at $76K.Â* $96K typical.

Mrs.E. loves Navigators.Â* She has had three of them in the past.
Gotta keep her away from this one.





Heheh...what does that barge weigh, three tons?, and with a 3.5 liter
engine, the same size as in my little truck and a Toyota with V6? With
twin turbos? Not an engine that is going to last long, pushing an
aircraft carrier.

It does 0-60 in a little over 6 seconds. That doesn't seem to be
underpowered. I doubt Mrs E will keep it long enough to wear out the
engine.


I wasn’t questioning the horsepower output, but the wisdom of powering a
three ton car with a small engine.

Now you sound like those 60s-70s guys who said big block V-8s were the
only way to go.
If this thing performs well and lasts as long as he plans on keeping
it, why not.
My FIL went from a Northstar V-8 to a 2 liter turbo in his "always
red" CTsumpin Cadillac and he says he barely noticed the difference


Yeah, I still believe if you have a big, heavy, car or truck, you want a
substantially sized engine in it. I was at first reluctant to buy a new
Toyota Tacoma because it only had a 3.5 liter engine, but it is a
relatively lightweight truck and I didn't plan on towing anything
heavier than a lawn/garden trailer, and that only occasionally. The six
speed manual tranny truck is certainly peppy enough, but I drive with a
light foot and to the best of my recollection, I've had the engine up
past 3000 rpms only once. Typically, I'm driving at around 2000 rpms for
60 - 65 mph. The state road limit around here is 50-55...and the county
mounties ain't reluctant to ticket you if you are more than 5 mph over
the posted limit.


I think your thinking is obsolete. Most of the newer vehicles today
have a V-6 (even pickup trucks) with many transmission gears instead of
the old 3 or 4 with maybe an overdrive. The old adage of "there's no
replacement for displacement" has been retired.

Another factor comparing the old 60's, 70's era V8 to modern engines.
A big block V8 in the 60's was designed and geared to produce the most
HP and torque fairly low on the RPM curve. Modern engines are designed
to produce max HP and torque much higher. There's a benefit to that in
that it doesn't "lug" under a heavy load.

My Canyon is rated at 308 HP but it's at 6,800 RPM. Max torque is 275
lb ft at 4,000 RPM. I think the engine in the '67 GTO I had would fly
apart at 6,800 RPM unless it was specially rebuilt for racing or something.

Another feature in modern engines is variable valve timing that
optimizes engine performance for it's load.

On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 17:50:45 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 17:39:12 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 3/31/18 5:30 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/31/2018 1:52 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
justan wrote:
Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 3/31/18 9:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Just been reading the various reviews on the 2018 Lincoln Navigator.

Ford pulled out all the stops and has blown the competition including
the* Cadillac Escalade and Infiniti QX80* away with this one.

3.5L twin turbo, 450hp, over 500 lb ft of torque, 10 speed
transmission,
6 adaptive performance settings, premier seating for all and an
interior fit and finish that is superior to any of it's competition.

Quite a price tag though.* Starts at $76K.* $96K typical.

Mrs.E. loves Navigators.* She has had three of them in the past.
Gotta keep her away from this one.





Heheh...what does that barge weigh, three tons?, and with a 3.5 liter
engine, the same size as in my little truck and a Toyota with V6? With
twin turbos? Not an engine that is going to last long, pushing an
aircraft carrier.


Why would someone who can't afford one be concerned about the
* weight and engine longevity.

Why would I want a whale of a car?



I don't.* Mrs.E. is the one who likes them.



Even with the visual aids, it must be a bitch to park that aircraft
carrier. I watched a video review of it, though...has a really nice
interior. It would be a nice car for a long trip on the Interstate...but
I really despise those sorts of long drives. Hell, five to five and a
half hours to New Haven or nine and a half hours to Hilton Head is the
limit of my tolerance for that sort of driving.


===

You should be able to make New Haven in 3 or 4 days with that
imaginary twin diesel yacht of yours. There's nothing quite like that
entrance into New York harbor as you go north on the Jersey coast.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

I suppose he's got a boom derrick to hoist his Ducati aboard.

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 3/31/18 9:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Just been reading the various reviews on the 2018 Lincoln Navigator.

Ford pulled out all the stops and has blown the competition including
the Cadillac Escalade and Infiniti QX80 away with this one.

3.5L twin turbo, 450hp, over 500 lb ft of torque, 10 speed
transmission, 6 adaptive performance settings, premier seating for
all and an interior fit and finish that is superior to any of it's
competition.

Quite a price tag though. Starts at $76K. $96K typical.

Mrs.E. loves Navigators. She has had three of them in the past.
Gotta keep her away from this one.





Heheh...what does that barge weigh, three tons?, and with a 3.5 liter
engine, the same size as in my little truck and a Toyota with V6? With
twin turbos? Not an engine that is going to last long, pushing an
aircraft carrier.


The auto industry has come a long way. Look at all of the 4cyl 2 liter
turbos moving large cars now. Years ago a turbo was an expense waiting
to happen. Now they are very common and built well.

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 3/31/18 12:04 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:

Just been reading the various reviews on the 2018 Lincoln Navigator.

Ford pulled out all the stops and has blown the competition including
the Cadillac Escalade and Infiniti QX80 away with this one.

3.5L twin turbo, 450hp, over 500 lb ft of torque, 10 speed
transmission,
6 adaptive performance settings, premier seating for all and an
interior fit and finish that is superior to any of it's competition.

Quite a price tag though. Starts at $76K. $96K typical.

Mrs.E. loves Navigators. She has had three of them in the past.
Gotta keep her away from this one.





Until she can see out the back of one.


Base curb weight, 5,926 pounds. I guessed three tons. Damned close.
The "L" model is more than three tons. Crikey. It weighs more than a
new Rolls-Royce, which has a Twin Turbo Premium Unleaded V-12 engine
with twice the displacement. The Rolls puts out 624 bhp.


What's your point?

Keyser Soze wrote:
justan wrote:
Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 3/31/18 9:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
Just been reading the various reviews on the 2018 Lincoln Navigator.

Ford pulled out all the stops and has blown the competition including
the Cadillac Escalade and Infiniti QX80 away with this one.

3.5L twin turbo, 450hp, over 500 lb ft of torque, 10 speed transmission,
6 adaptive performance settings, premier seating for all and an
interior fit and finish that is superior to any of it's competition.

Quite a price tag though. Starts at $76K. $96K typical.

Mrs.E. loves Navigators. She has had three of them in the past.
Gotta keep her away from this one.




Heheh...what does that barge weigh, three tons?, and with a 3.5 liter
engine, the same size as in my little truck and a Toyota with V6? With
twin turbos? Not an engine that is going to last long, pushing an
aircraft carrier.

Why would someone who can't afford one be concerned about the
weight and engine longevity.
Why would I want a whale of a car?


Who asked? If you aren't in the market for one, why comment at all?
You really have to work on that narcissism, Krause.

John H. wrote:
On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 15:57:52 -0400, wrote:

On 31 Mar 2018 17:52:42 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 09:50:35 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 3/31/18 9:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
Just been reading the various reviews on the 2018 Lincoln Navigator.

Ford pulled out all the stops and has blown the competition including
the Cadillac Escalade and Infiniti QX80 away with this one.

3.5L twin turbo, 450hp, over 500 lb ft of torque, 10 speed transmission,
6 adaptive performance settings, premier seating for all and an
interior fit and finish that is superior to any of it's competition.

Quite a price tag though. Starts at $76K. $96K typical.

Mrs.E. loves Navigators. She has had three of them in the past.
Gotta keep her away from this one.




Heheh...what does that barge weigh, three tons?, and with a 3.5 liter
engine, the same size as in my little truck and a Toyota with V6? With
twin turbos? Not an engine that is going to last long, pushing an
aircraft carrier.
It does 0-60 in a little over 6 seconds. That doesn't seem to be
underpowered. I doubt Mrs E will keep it long enough to wear out the
engine.

I wasn’t questioning the horsepower output, but the wisdom of powering a
three ton car with a small engine.
Now you sound like those 60s-70s guys who said big block V-8s were the
only way to go.
If this thing performs well and lasts as long as he plans on keeping
it, why not.
My FIL went from a Northstar V-8 to a 2 liter turbo in his "always
red" CTsumpin Cadillac and he says he barely noticed the difference
Have you ever witnessed Harry *not* put down something someone else was buying?

Rarely, unless it's his dumb friend Donnie. He got a pass for buying a
Bayliner from Krause.