On 2/24/2018 4:22 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 14:58:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/24/2018 2:50 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/24/18 2:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2018 2:25 PM, justan wrote:
Wrote in message:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:36:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I'll betcha it's not so much a case of being anti-gun as it is legal
beagles recognizing that litigation could extend not only to the
shooter, the store that sold him the firearm (already happens) and to
the financing agency that made the purchase possible.Â* I'll bet more
credit card issuers will start prohibiting the use of their cards for
firearm purchases in the future.

There is legislation in place that shields sellers and manufacturers.
The left really wants to change that but not with much success so far.
This credit card thing is just kubuki theater. Like you say, once the
water calms down I bet it goes away, particularly if a number of big
chains decide to tell them to **** off.
Like someone said before, where does this stop? Are they going to stop
processing charges for dangerous food next? Far more people die from
obesity related disease than from guns, by a couple orders of
magnitude


Why don't we just ban everything the ATF people regulate and be
Â* done with it. Of the three, I don't know which is
Â* deadliest.



Greg seems to think that all of our society problems are mutually
inclusive, meaning you can only fix 'em if you fix *all* of them at
once.Â* It's ok to take one or two at a time.



My take on Greg is that he has no interest in anything other than the
anti-rule, anti-regulation, anti-societal libertarian nonsense. That
means no regulatory efforts to fix anything. Don't like dirty air? Wear
a gas mask. Dirty water? Filter it. Too many high-powered guns in the
wrong hands? Wear body armor.


I like Greg and have respect for his accomplishments, knowledge and
technical expertise. But I don't think I've ever come across anyone
who can come up with as many reasons why you *can't* do something as he
can. It makes me chuckle sometimes.

It's a little surprising because usually those with a technical or
engineering bent are just the opposite. Tell an engineer he can't do
something and he'll spend a lifetime trying to prove you wrong.


I lived my life on the other end of that product cycle and I see what
engineers can't do.
If they weren't wrong so often I would not have had a job.
I didn't lose my job because they got any better. It was just because
we simply throw away their mistakes and buy a new one instead of
trying to fix it.


Well that certainly explains it in a nutshell. Fire the engineering
department. Don't need it.

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:29:37 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/24/2018 4:22 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 14:58:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/24/2018 2:50 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/24/18 2:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2018 2:25 PM, justan wrote:
Wrote in message:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:36:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I'll betcha it's not so much a case of being anti-gun as it is legal
beagles recognizing that litigation could extend not only to the
shooter, the store that sold him the firearm (already happens) and to
the financing agency that made the purchase possible.Â* I'll bet more
credit card issuers will start prohibiting the use of their cards for
firearm purchases in the future.

There is legislation in place that shields sellers and manufacturers.
The left really wants to change that but not with much success so far.
This credit card thing is just kubuki theater. Like you say, once the
water calms down I bet it goes away, particularly if a number of big
chains decide to tell them to **** off.
Like someone said before, where does this stop? Are they going to stop
processing charges for dangerous food next? Far more people die from
obesity related disease than from guns, by a couple orders of
magnitude


Why don't we just ban everything the ATF people regulate and be
Â* done with it. Of the three, I don't know which is
Â* deadliest.



Greg seems to think that all of our society problems are mutually
inclusive, meaning you can only fix 'em if you fix *all* of them at
once.Â* It's ok to take one or two at a time.



My take on Greg is that he has no interest in anything other than the
anti-rule, anti-regulation, anti-societal libertarian nonsense. That
means no regulatory efforts to fix anything. Don't like dirty air? Wear
a gas mask. Dirty water? Filter it. Too many high-powered guns in the
wrong hands? Wear body armor.


I like Greg and have respect for his accomplishments, knowledge and
technical expertise. But I don't think I've ever come across anyone
who can come up with as many reasons why you *can't* do something as he
can. It makes me chuckle sometimes.

It's a little surprising because usually those with a technical or
engineering bent are just the opposite. Tell an engineer he can't do
something and he'll spend a lifetime trying to prove you wrong.


I lived my life on the other end of that product cycle and I see what
engineers can't do.
If they weren't wrong so often I would not have had a job.
I didn't lose my job because they got any better. It was just because
we simply throw away their mistakes and buy a new one instead of
trying to fix it.


Well that certainly explains it in a nutshell. Fire the engineering
department. Don't need it.


You don't want to fire them but they do need a little more real world
experience. That was one of the jobs I had, service planning, in
Endicott. Basically we were feeding back how things that worked
perfectly in the lab were not doing as well in the customer's office.

More on point is a lot of times in the Maps they had useless
procedures than never fixed anything but wasted a lot of time and
resources. We tried to cut through that clutter.
Your "ban military guns" falls into that category. It is a lot of
effort for very little return. There are perhaps 50-100 million that
would fall into that broad category that are here and not going
anywhere.

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2018 4:22 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 14:58:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/24/2018 2:50 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/24/18 2:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2018 2:25 PM, justan wrote:
Wrote in message:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:36:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I'll betcha it's not so much a case of being anti-gun as it is legal
beagles recognizing that litigation could extend not only to the
shooter, the store that sold him the firearm (already happens) and to
the financing agency that made the purchase possible.Â* I'll bet more
credit card issuers will start prohibiting the use of their cards for
firearm purchases in the future.

There is legislation in place that shields sellers and manufacturers.
The left really wants to change that but not with much success so far.
This credit card thing is just kubuki theater. Like you say, once the
water calms down I bet it goes away, particularly if a number of big
chains decide to tell them to **** off.
Like someone said before, where does this stop? Are they going to stop
processing charges for dangerous food next? Far more people die from
obesity related disease than from guns, by a couple orders of
magnitude


Why don't we just ban everything the ATF people regulate and be
Â* done with it. Of the three, I don't know which is
Â* deadliest.



Greg seems to think that all of our society problems are mutually
inclusive, meaning you can only fix 'em if you fix *all* of them at
once.Â* It's ok to take one or two at a time.



My take on Greg is that he has no interest in anything other than the
anti-rule, anti-regulation, anti-societal libertarian nonsense. That
means no regulatory efforts to fix anything. Don't like dirty air? Wear
a gas mask. Dirty water? Filter it. Too many high-powered guns in the
wrong hands? Wear body armor.


I like Greg and have respect for his accomplishments, knowledge and
technical expertise. But I don't think I've ever come across anyone
who can come up with as many reasons why you *can't* do something as he
can. It makes me chuckle sometimes.

It's a little surprising because usually those with a technical or
engineering bent are just the opposite. Tell an engineer he can't do
something and he'll spend a lifetime trying to prove you wrong.


I lived my life on the other end of that product cycle and I see what
engineers can't do.
If they weren't wrong so often I would not have had a job.
I didn't lose my job because they got any better. It was just because
we simply throw away their mistakes and buy a new one instead of
trying to fix it.


Well that certainly explains it in a nutshell. Fire the engineering
department. Don't need it.




I did sustaining engineering for one company. Fixed lots of design
errors. Made a really nice living. Worked my way through fixing
mainframes. Also a decent income.

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 00:40:45 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

I did sustaining engineering for one company. Fixed lots of design
errors. Made a really nice living. Worked my way through fixing
mainframes. Also a decent income.

Of all the jobs I had, mainframes were my favorite thing to fix, I was
real good on just about any kind of big printer, 1403 and 3800 in
particular (little ones, not so much) and I became pretty good on
check sorters but they were never my favorite thing to do. Check
sorters are not that much "fixing" as just replacing parts
preemptively by the box load. We started using our drill drivers and
mass attacking them 2 or 3 guys at a time.
I also liked the instructor job but I didn't want to work in DC or
Atlanta. Plant jobs (service planning) were fun for a while but I got
bored. I did not want to be Dilbert in a cube.
It was better when I could do it remotely from Ft Myers (then called
service delivery) and it was just logistic planning. Unfortunately all
of that went away along with the 6 man territory I was managing at the
time.