Tick Tock
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:00:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 3:53 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 13:15:24 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html




??

Hit the wrong button. Unlike one of our associates here, I'm not perfect.

Tick Tock
 

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 5:03:07 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 4:22 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 1:15:29 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying $479 worth of Purina. :)



This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.

We're not communicating. :)
The fix will be done by the vendor selling the items that the banks won't honor. The vendor losing sales will change the credit card reporting so the banks won't be able to tell that the item is a firearm, and the sale will go through. Your new Ruger purchase will say "Misc pet supplies", or something similar.

Tick Tock
 

Mr. Luddite wrote:

One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA
sponsored Visa cards.


1) Wells Fargo will open an account for anyone and let them charge anything.
2) Criminals pay in cash.

Tick Tock
 

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 4:22 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 1:15:29 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem
to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card
companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's
hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at
the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify
the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural
King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve
transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying
$479 worth of Purina. :)



This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.


So, they are going to ban sales from Walmart? I check out at any store,
and the amount is verified. That is all that is verified.

Tick Tock
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 13:22:22 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 1:15:29 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying $479 worth of Purina. :)

That is only $100 more than a jug of Garlon. Throw in a jug of Roundup
Pro and you are over.

Tick Tock
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:03:00 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying $479 worth of Purina. :)



This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.

The merchants and customers are going to be the ones who fix it.
Credit card companies court them, not the other way around. If Rural
King says I will only honor cards that accept gun sales, they won't
have any problem finding bankers who will go along. I am sure there
are banks who would love to get NRAs business.
I am just not sure how this would really work. If Chase says they will
not honor a gun purchase but BoA will, how does the merchant know?
What will Visa/ MC say about it? Who gets stuck when the charge is
denied and the customer has already left the store?
Like others have said, the merchant will just stop sending merchandise
details with the charge, assuming they do now.
I know when we had the store, everything was just "merchandise". Visa
and MC only got what we entered into the machine and that was what
came from the card swipe or manual entry and the amount. That is also
all I ever see on my CC receipt, along with the system generated
transaction number.
If I am making a claim against the credit card company, I need to
attach the actual sales receipt with that transaction number on it.

Tick Tock
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:58:37 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 5:03:07 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 4:22 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 1:15:29 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying $479 worth of Purina. :)



This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.

We're not communicating. :)
The fix will be done by the vendor selling the items that the banks won't honor. The vendor losing sales will change the credit card reporting so the banks won't be able to tell that the item is a firearm, and the sale will go through. Your new Ruger purchase will say "Misc pet supplies", or something similar.

I don't see how the bank gets that information anyway. It is possible
to do if the CC reader is part of the POS terminal but since I do a
lot of business with small companies that use a stand alone machine, I
know they don't get anything but totals from that. It is just what the
guy types in plus the card swipe or chip read. I have to believe the
system on the other end is also getting the same transaction data from
a POS. Why would they maintain 2 systems? I guess I could call one of
my IBM buddies and ask, assuming any of them are still working.
Maybe Wayne knows.

Tick Tock
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:43:08 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:58:37 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 5:03:07 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 4:22 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 1:15:29 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying $479 worth of Purina. :)



This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.

We're not communicating. :)
The fix will be done by the vendor selling the items that the banks won't honor. The vendor losing sales will change the credit card reporting so the banks won't be able to tell that the item is a firearm, and the sale will go through. Your new Ruger purchase will say "Misc pet supplies", or something similar.

I don't see how the bank gets that information anyway. It is possible
to do if the CC reader is part of the POS terminal but since I do a
lot of business with small companies that use a stand alone machine, I
know they don't get anything but totals from that. It is just what the
guy types in plus the card swipe or chip read. I have to believe the
system on the other end is also getting the same transaction data from
a POS. Why would they maintain 2 systems? I guess I could call one of
my IBM buddies and ask, assuming any of them are still working.
Maybe Wayne knows.


===

I am not an expert on retail systems but my understanding is that
credit card sales are an all or nothing proposition, meaning that
credit card companies can ban the merchant but not the product. The
legal marijuana industry is up against this - banks will just will not
do business with them so all sales are cash. The same thing could
happen to gun stores but not a mass merchandiser like Walmart.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

Tick Tock
 

On 2/24/2018 7:07 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:43:08 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:58:37 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 5:03:07 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 4:22 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 1:15:29 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying $479 worth of Purina. :)



This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.

We're not communicating. :)
The fix will be done by the vendor selling the items that the banks won't honor. The vendor losing sales will change the credit card reporting so the banks won't be able to tell that the item is a firearm, and the sale will go through. Your new Ruger purchase will say "Misc pet supplies", or something similar.

I don't see how the bank gets that information anyway. It is possible
to do if the CC reader is part of the POS terminal but since I do a
lot of business with small companies that use a stand alone machine, I
know they don't get anything but totals from that. It is just what the
guy types in plus the card swipe or chip read. I have to believe the
system on the other end is also getting the same transaction data from
a POS. Why would they maintain 2 systems? I guess I could call one of
my IBM buddies and ask, assuming any of them are still working.
Maybe Wayne knows.


===

I am not an expert on retail systems but my understanding is that
credit card sales are an all or nothing proposition, meaning that
credit card companies can ban the merchant but not the product. The
legal marijuana industry is up against this - banks will just will not
do business with them so all sales are cash. The same thing could
happen to gun stores but not a mass merchandiser like Walmart.


It has been a while so I may not have this correct but I seem to
remember that when I had the guitar shop and set up an account to accept
credit cards, one of the available service options was a record of
specific item sales based on an inventory number or something. I didn't
opt for it and just went for the basic credit card service. It had to
do with tying sales to your inventory control system which I didn't have
or need.

I think a record of taxed and non-taxed items is recorded because it's
used as the basis for monthly state sales tax records and payments.

I liked and encouraged cash sales. :-)

Tick Tock
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:58:37 -0800 (PST), Its Me wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 5:03:07 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 4:22 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 1:15:29 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying $479 worth of Purina. :)



This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.

We're not communicating. :)
The fix will be done by the vendor selling the items that the banks won't honor. The vendor losing sales will change the credit card reporting so the banks won't be able to tell that the item is a firearm, and the sale will go through. Your new Ruger purchase will say "Misc pet supplies", or something similar.

The VISA paper said "...won’t do business with retailers that sell assault weapons, high-capacity
magazines and bump stocks...".

The vendor would have to hide the fact that the items were part of the inventory, not hide the sale
of each item. By checking a vendor's web site a bank could easily see what the vendor carried. Or,
the bank could have someone go into the vendor's place of business.