Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 12:32:33 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:27:11 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/23/18 8:17 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts.* If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.




My current CZ 512 has five or 10 round detachable mags, as did my
previous CZ bolt action rifle. I believe the bolt action Ruger precision
rifles are limited to 10-round mags.

Are you saying I can't find a bigger magazine for either of them?

Hell, that didn't even take me long:

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/prod...06703120201.do

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 13:04:02 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:21 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 03:24:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 10:48 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:11:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 3:45 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:21:01 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 12:13 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 07:25:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Here's a weird one. In Massachusetts, one of the most liberal states, a
15 year old can legally purchase and own a long gun with his/her
parent's permission.


If the parents are OK with it, can't a kid have any gun they want at
any age? Who is going to stop them?
I had my first shotgun at 14-15 when I started to hunt but I had a .22
for years before that. I suppose technically it was my dad's, handed
down from my grandfather but I had free access to it and they sold
ammo at the 7-11.


Fortunately, most parents I know personally have more smarts and a sense
of responsibility to allow their kids at any minor age to own guns.


That is Acela corridor thinking again and big city thinking at that.
In the early 60s hunting was a thing most of my friends did before
they could drive and this was just outside of DC in PG county.
Like I said, the 7-11 sold shotgun shells and .22s
I am sure that sounds strange today but you could walk in the woods
all the way from the DC line behind Eastover shopping center and
Forest Heights to the river, down past where National Harbor is now
and never see a thing but woods. That was 4 or 5 square miles
contiguous with the woods behind my house before they built the
interstate. Typically we did not really do much hunting east of 210
but there were some good quail and rabbit fields before you got there,
pretty much where the right of way for I-495 is now. West of 210 there
was just about anything you could expect to find in Maryland.
The strange thing is there is still a pretty big undeveloped parcel
down there right now.



There are plenty people who hunt in Massachusetts and the areas we've
lived in are probably more heavily wooded than your experience in
Maryland. The last house I lived in with my parents as a kid was
surrounded by tens of thousands of acres of woods and undeveloped land.

I still don't know of any parent I know who would allow a minor child to
have his/her very own gun. BB guns, yes. Firearms ... no.



===

I grew up in a semi-rural area of upstate NY and many of my friends
had their own 22s and/or shot guns. Not one was ever injured or
involved in any gun related incident.


Did your friends have AR-15s and have a Rambo mindset?


Now you have changed the subject then haven't you?
You went from "no minor should ever have anything but a BB gun" to
assuming we want our kid to have an AR. That being said, I am sure out
west where it is relatively safe to shoot one, there are teenagers
with ARs. They would usually start with a .22rf and demonstrate that
they are safe and knowledgable first but there are plenty of people
out in flyover country who understand a gun is a tool.



How have I changed the subject? My point was that you really can't
compare what was common 50 years ago to today. AR-15s had not been
invented that I know of and I don't think a teenager could run down
to the local gun store back then and buy a rifle designed for the
military back then.

I have suggested raising the minimum age requirement for the purchase of 'military style' weapons.
As far as I know, the school shooters have all been young. Raising the minimum age to 25 or 30 could
very well slow down the buying by young folks.

You skip over that for some reason. You think it's a stupid idea or what?

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:58:04 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 8:46 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:17:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts. If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.


Even with laws as strict as they are in MA, Boston didn't have a very good year in 2017.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/teen...2017/672133630

"In 2017, Boston is on track to have a murder rate of 8.7 per 100,000 people, compared to the
estimated rates of 3.3 per 100,000 in New York City and 6.8 per 100,000 in Los Angeles, according to
the Brennan Center."

Wonder how this is going to work. "Starting in January, authorities will have a judicial system
devoted exclusively to processing gun offenses in the Suffolk Superior Court after being operated
for more than a decade in the Boston Municipal Court."

A lot of law officers are down on systems which allow gun offenders to get '30 days probation'.


Big cities in Massachusetts are not immune to the rise in gun related
fatalities. Gangs exist here as they do elsewhere in the nation.


But the statistics do point out the ineffectiveness of more stringent gun laws.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 14:50:22 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 1:37 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/23/18 12:30 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:14:35 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 23:42:07 -0500, wrote:


Well, you don't see many kids walking around with handguns, do you?

There seem to be plenty of them in Baltimore, Detroit and Chicago..
That is the point of a handgun, you can't see people walking around
with them.

To the liberals, those don't count, remember.

You made a good point. If the parents OK it, who's going to stop
them. Perhaps we need to see some
much stronger action taken against parents whose kids have access to
the guns and use them
illegally.

Most of those kids don't have functional parents



Any parent who gives a functioning .22LR Rifle to a little kid, one less
than 16 at a minimum, is not a functional parent.

Not now-a-days anyway. 50 or 60 years ago it may have been common in
certain sections of the country where hunting and varmint shooting was a
daily occurrence. Back then then the concept of a school mass shooting
never entered anyone's minds, parents or kids.

Those areas today are fully integrated into instant news and influences
thanks to the Internet, Smart phones and Social Media. Times change.

Thank you. I didn't think my parents were dysfunctional. I suppose I am dysfunctional for giving a
grandson a Henry .22 upon the attainment of his Eagle Scout.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On 2/23/2018 3:28 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 13:04:02 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:21 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 03:24:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 10:48 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:11:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 3:45 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:21:01 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 12:13 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 07:25:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Here's a weird one. In Massachusetts, one of the most liberal states, a
15 year old can legally purchase and own a long gun with his/her
parent's permission.


If the parents are OK with it, can't a kid have any gun they want at
any age? Who is going to stop them?
I had my first shotgun at 14-15 when I started to hunt but I had a .22
for years before that. I suppose technically it was my dad's, handed
down from my grandfather but I had free access to it and they sold
ammo at the 7-11.


Fortunately, most parents I know personally have more smarts and a sense
of responsibility to allow their kids at any minor age to own guns.


That is Acela corridor thinking again and big city thinking at that.
In the early 60s hunting was a thing most of my friends did before
they could drive and this was just outside of DC in PG county.
Like I said, the 7-11 sold shotgun shells and .22s
I am sure that sounds strange today but you could walk in the woods
all the way from the DC line behind Eastover shopping center and
Forest Heights to the river, down past where National Harbor is now
and never see a thing but woods. That was 4 or 5 square miles
contiguous with the woods behind my house before they built the
interstate. Typically we did not really do much hunting east of 210
but there were some good quail and rabbit fields before you got there,
pretty much where the right of way for I-495 is now. West of 210 there
was just about anything you could expect to find in Maryland.
The strange thing is there is still a pretty big undeveloped parcel
down there right now.



There are plenty people who hunt in Massachusetts and the areas we've
lived in are probably more heavily wooded than your experience in
Maryland. The last house I lived in with my parents as a kid was
surrounded by tens of thousands of acres of woods and undeveloped land.

I still don't know of any parent I know who would allow a minor child to
have his/her very own gun. BB guns, yes. Firearms ... no.



===

I grew up in a semi-rural area of upstate NY and many of my friends
had their own 22s and/or shot guns. Not one was ever injured or
involved in any gun related incident.


Did your friends have AR-15s and have a Rambo mindset?


Now you have changed the subject then haven't you?
You went from "no minor should ever have anything but a BB gun" to
assuming we want our kid to have an AR. That being said, I am sure out
west where it is relatively safe to shoot one, there are teenagers
with ARs. They would usually start with a .22rf and demonstrate that
they are safe and knowledgable first but there are plenty of people
out in flyover country who understand a gun is a tool.



How have I changed the subject? My point was that you really can't
compare what was common 50 years ago to today. AR-15s had not been
invented that I know of and I don't think a teenager could run down
to the local gun store back then and buy a rifle designed for the
military back then.

I have suggested raising the minimum age requirement for the purchase of 'military style' weapons.
As far as I know, the school shooters have all been young. Raising the minimum age to 25 or 30 could
very well slow down the buying by young folks.

You skip over that for some reason. You think it's a stupid idea or what?


Not at all. I agree with you 100%. I think it should be 21 for *all*
firearms. Don't know if 25 or 30 would fly legally since it's just an
arbitrary age. I agree with the comment by many of the teenaged
students involved in the Florida shootings. If you aren't old enough at
18 to buy beer, you shouldn't be old enough to buy an AR-15.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On 2/23/2018 3:56 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 14:50:22 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 1:37 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/23/18 12:30 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:14:35 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 23:42:07 -0500, wrote:


Well, you don't see many kids walking around with handguns, do you?

There seem to be plenty of them in Baltimore, Detroit and Chicago..
That is the point of a handgun, you can't see people walking around
with them.

To the liberals, those don't count, remember.

You made a good point. If the parents OK it, who's going to stop
them. Perhaps we need to see some
much stronger action taken against parents whose kids have access to
the guns and use them
illegally.

Most of those kids don't have functional parents



Any parent who gives a functioning .22LR Rifle to a little kid, one less
than 16 at a minimum, is not a functional parent.

Not now-a-days anyway. 50 or 60 years ago it may have been common in
certain sections of the country where hunting and varmint shooting was a
daily occurrence. Back then then the concept of a school mass shooting
never entered anyone's minds, parents or kids.

Those areas today are fully integrated into instant news and influences
thanks to the Internet, Smart phones and Social Media. Times change.

Thank you. I didn't think my parents were dysfunctional. I suppose I am dysfunctional for giving a
grandson a Henry .22 upon the attainment of his Eagle Scout.



No. Given your background and accomplishments I think you're a better
judge of character and maturity than the government and politicians are.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On 2/23/2018 3:34 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:58:04 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 8:46 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:17:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts. If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.


Even with laws as strict as they are in MA, Boston didn't have a very good year in 2017.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/teen...2017/672133630

"In 2017, Boston is on track to have a murder rate of 8.7 per 100,000 people, compared to the
estimated rates of 3.3 per 100,000 in New York City and 6.8 per 100,000 in Los Angeles, according to
the Brennan Center."

Wonder how this is going to work. "Starting in January, authorities will have a judicial system
devoted exclusively to processing gun offenses in the Suffolk Superior Court after being operated
for more than a decade in the Boston Municipal Court."

A lot of law officers are down on systems which allow gun offenders to get '30 days probation'.


Big cities in Massachusetts are not immune to the rise in gun related
fatalities. Gangs exist here as they do elsewhere in the nation.


But the statistics do point out the ineffectiveness of more stringent gun laws.


I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:28:28 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 3:28 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 13:04:02 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:21 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 03:24:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 10:48 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:11:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 3:45 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:21:01 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 12:13 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 07:25:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Here's a weird one. In Massachusetts, one of the most liberal states, a
15 year old can legally purchase and own a long gun with his/her
parent's permission.


If the parents are OK with it, can't a kid have any gun they want at
any age? Who is going to stop them?
I had my first shotgun at 14-15 when I started to hunt but I had a .22
for years before that. I suppose technically it was my dad's, handed
down from my grandfather but I had free access to it and they sold
ammo at the 7-11.


Fortunately, most parents I know personally have more smarts and a sense
of responsibility to allow their kids at any minor age to own guns.


That is Acela corridor thinking again and big city thinking at that.
In the early 60s hunting was a thing most of my friends did before
they could drive and this was just outside of DC in PG county.
Like I said, the 7-11 sold shotgun shells and .22s
I am sure that sounds strange today but you could walk in the woods
all the way from the DC line behind Eastover shopping center and
Forest Heights to the river, down past where National Harbor is now
and never see a thing but woods. That was 4 or 5 square miles
contiguous with the woods behind my house before they built the
interstate. Typically we did not really do much hunting east of 210
but there were some good quail and rabbit fields before you got there,
pretty much where the right of way for I-495 is now. West of 210 there
was just about anything you could expect to find in Maryland.
The strange thing is there is still a pretty big undeveloped parcel
down there right now.



There are plenty people who hunt in Massachusetts and the areas we've
lived in are probably more heavily wooded than your experience in
Maryland. The last house I lived in with my parents as a kid was
surrounded by tens of thousands of acres of woods and undeveloped land.

I still don't know of any parent I know who would allow a minor child to
have his/her very own gun. BB guns, yes. Firearms ... no.



===

I grew up in a semi-rural area of upstate NY and many of my friends
had their own 22s and/or shot guns. Not one was ever injured or
involved in any gun related incident.


Did your friends have AR-15s and have a Rambo mindset?


Now you have changed the subject then haven't you?
You went from "no minor should ever have anything but a BB gun" to
assuming we want our kid to have an AR. That being said, I am sure out
west where it is relatively safe to shoot one, there are teenagers
with ARs. They would usually start with a .22rf and demonstrate that
they are safe and knowledgable first but there are plenty of people
out in flyover country who understand a gun is a tool.



How have I changed the subject? My point was that you really can't
compare what was common 50 years ago to today. AR-15s had not been
invented that I know of and I don't think a teenager could run down
to the local gun store back then and buy a rifle designed for the
military back then.

I have suggested raising the minimum age requirement for the purchase of 'military style' weapons.
As far as I know, the school shooters have all been young. Raising the minimum age to 25 or 30 could
very well slow down the buying by young folks.

You skip over that for some reason. You think it's a stupid idea or what?


Not at all. I agree with you 100%. I think it should be 21 for *all*
firearms. Don't know if 25 or 30 would fly legally since it's just an
arbitrary age. I agree with the comment by many of the teenaged
students involved in the Florida shootings. If you aren't old enough at
18 to buy beer, you shouldn't be old enough to buy an AR-15.


At least 21 would be good. I think the shooter at Virginia Tech was 21, but most of them, that I can
find data on, were under 21. Seems like that would be a no brainer.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:56:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 3:34 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:58:04 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 8:46 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:17:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts. If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.


Even with laws as strict as they are in MA, Boston didn't have a very good year in 2017.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/teen...2017/672133630

"In 2017, Boston is on track to have a murder rate of 8.7 per 100,000 people, compared to the
estimated rates of 3.3 per 100,000 in New York City and 6.8 per 100,000 in Los Angeles, according to
the Brennan Center."

Wonder how this is going to work. "Starting in January, authorities will have a judicial system
devoted exclusively to processing gun offenses in the Suffolk Superior Court after being operated
for more than a decade in the Boston Municipal Court."

A lot of law officers are down on systems which allow gun offenders to get '30 days probation'.


Big cities in Massachusetts are not immune to the rise in gun related
fatalities. Gangs exist here as they do elsewhere in the nation.


But the statistics do point out the ineffectiveness of more stringent gun laws.


I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.

I was referring to Boston's murder rate, higher than New York or Los Angeles, even with the very
strict gun laws in the state. It's not the 'legally purchased' firearms that are causing that, I
don't think. Folks who follow all the gun laws don't do the shooting. Wonder how many of the other
than gang shootings were done by owners of legally acquired firearms.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On 2/23/2018 5:19 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:56:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 3:34 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:58:04 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 8:46 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:17:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts. If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.


Even with laws as strict as they are in MA, Boston didn't have a very good year in 2017.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/teen...2017/672133630

"In 2017, Boston is on track to have a murder rate of 8.7 per 100,000 people, compared to the
estimated rates of 3.3 per 100,000 in New York City and 6.8 per 100,000 in Los Angeles, according to
the Brennan Center."

Wonder how this is going to work. "Starting in January, authorities will have a judicial system
devoted exclusively to processing gun offenses in the Suffolk Superior Court after being operated
for more than a decade in the Boston Municipal Court."

A lot of law officers are down on systems which allow gun offenders to get '30 days probation'.


Big cities in Massachusetts are not immune to the rise in gun related
fatalities. Gangs exist here as they do elsewhere in the nation.


But the statistics do point out the ineffectiveness of more stringent gun laws.


I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.

I was referring to Boston's murder rate, higher than New York or Los Angeles, even with the very
strict gun laws in the state. It's not the 'legally purchased' firearms that are causing that, I
don't think. Folks who follow all the gun laws don't do the shooting. Wonder how many of the other
than gang shootings were done by owners of legally acquired firearms.



Gun laws obviously vary state to state. I think New York's gun laws
(and maybe Los Angeles) are stiffer in some respects than in
Massachusetts. MA has a long list of banned firearms but it's not
difficult to obtain a license and the laws governing storage, transport,
etc. are no more restrictive than anywhere else. The only real
complaint I have is that MA does not recognize any other state permits,
so few recognize ours. I'd like to see that change.