On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 10:00:25 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

We have serious firearm problems in this country.

We have a "crazy people" problem and a drug war problem. There are 300
million guns here and maybe 100 million gun owners that never killed
anyone.

On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 10:00:28 AM UTC-5, Keyser Soze wrote:

Most mental health issues, however, do not manifest
themselves in the ways those of Mr. Cruz has, assuming he does have
mental health issues. Many, maybe most people with serious mental health
issues that result in long-term hospitalization are shy and
introspective, and would not be the ones who act out with firearms.

Complete and utter BS. Anyone that walks into a school and kills 17 people has a very serious mental health issue. It doesn't take a PhD to figure that out.

Many, maybe most people with serious mental health
issues that result in long-term hospitalization are shy and
introspective, and would not be the ones who act out with firearms.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the people that *are* mentally ill and *do* act out with weapons and kill people.

Your wife may tell you that those poor people are really good and just need some treatment and understanding, but the fact is that many mentally ill people cannot be cured and do have a tendency to kill innocents.

Mr. Luddite wrote:

News reports now indicate that it was well known that Cruz was a
messed up kid and has a history of treatment at a mental health
facility. He told police "the Demons made me do it".

Lot of good the shrinks/therapists did for him or the 17 people who
died at the school in Florida Wednesday.



Mental health care is pseudoscience. Look at how many kids are on
Ritalin. That drug can do more harm than good. These therapists are
quick to prescribe **** like that so they can move on to the next paycheck.

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 08:01:53 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 2/16/18 7:17 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
News reports now indicate that it was well known that Cruz was a messed
up kid and has a history of treatment at a mental health facility. He
told police "the Demons made me do it".

Lot of good the shrinks/therapists did for him or the 17 people who died
at the school in Florida Wednesday.

You don't know why he was referred for treatment.
You don't know if he was Baker-acted.
You don't know what his evaluation was.
You don't know what sort of treatment he received.
You don't know how many treatment sessions he received.
You don't know the credentials of whoever treated him.
You don't know if there was appropriate follow-up.

You don't know ****.

But you continue to give cover to Trump.
Sure seems like you're the one doing the covering...for ineffectual shrinks.

And there are plenty of them.

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/16/18 8:25 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2018 8:14 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 08:01:53 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 2/16/18 7:17 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

News reports now indicate that it was well known that Cruz was a
messed
up kid and has a history of treatment at a mental health
facility. He
told police "the Demons made me do it".

Lot of good the shrinks/therapists did for him or the 17 people
who died
at the school in Florida Wednesday.


You don't know why he was referred for treatment.
You don't know if he was Baker-acted.
You don't know what his evaluation was.
You don't know what sort of treatment he received.
You don't know how many treatment sessions he received.
You don't know the credentials of whoever treated him.
You don't know if there was appropriate follow-up.

You don't know ****.

But you continue to give cover to Trump.



Sure seems like you're the one doing the covering...for ineffectual
shrinks.


Obviously the mental health "professionals" either missed the
seriousness of his condition .... or failed to report it. There are
also reports that law enforcement had to visit his residence many times.
All the dots are there. The failure was connecting them.

And for Harry, sitting in my Bozo Bin: What has this got to do with
Trump?





The questions I raised remain. You don't know **** about Cruz or about
the legal processes that have to be followed for *requiring* an
evaluation or treatment or what an individual has to say for the
police to be called in. And, since you don't know generally or the
particulars in this case, you are just spouting.

Florida's "Baker Act" and similar acts in other states do not allow
much latitude in forcing evaluation and further treatment after
evaluation.

I notice you fellas, just like your hero, Trump, aren't mentioning the
easy availability of the sorts of firearms favored by these school,
church, parking lot, Vegas hotel shooters. You don't often read about
these sorts of horrors perpetrated by youngsters happening in Canada,
France, Great Britain, Australia, Germany, et cetera. This sort of
violence...mass murder committed by school kids and deranged
adults...is a peculiarly "American" phenom.

Here's an idea. Set up a fund to ask every American against gun
violence and loose gun laws to donate $5 to defeat Republican
legislators who are in the pocket of the NRA. Fifty million Americans
donating $5 each would put candidates in office who will put proper
controls on the NRA and those who oppose every rational idea to make
us safer.




If scary AR15's are taken off the shelves tomorrow that won't solve the
problem. The scary AR15 has a very small bullet but a high muzzle
velocity. The latter doesn't matter in a close quarters situation. A
Ruger 10/22 - millions sold and many kid's first rifle - is as deadly as
the scary AR15. Some say the the .22LR is deadlier due to the lower
velocity and resulting organ damage. They are available with 25+ round
magazines and the standard 10 round magazines are a quick change, too.
Then there are MAC10's, Kel-tec PMR30's, etc. It's not about the guns,
it's the people firing them.

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/16/18 9:43 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2018 9:01 AM, Justan Ohlphart wrote:
On 2/16/2018 8:01 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/16/18 7:17 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

News reports now indicate that it was well known that Cruz was a
messed up kid and has a history of treatment at a mental health
facility. He told police "the Demons made me do it".

Lot of good the shrinks/therapists did for him or the 17 people
who died at the school in Florida Wednesday.


You don't know why he was referred for treatment.
You don't know if he was Baker-acted.
You don't know what his evaluation was.
You don't know what sort of treatment he received.
You don't know how many treatment sessions he received.
You don't know the credentials of whoever treated him.
You don't know if there was appropriate follow-up.

You don't know ****.

But you continue to give cover to Trump.

Do you know if the shrinkers alerted the authorities about the sicko
and his demons? There seems to be some criminal negligence going on
regarding mental health facilities. Should we put some heads on
pikes, eh, Fat Harry?



May as well let Harry back out of the Bozo Bin so I can directly
defend myself from his accusations.

It doesn't matter if I or anyone else has knowledge of every detail
available to us to form an opinion .... and that's all I've done. I
understand Harry's sensitivity to this subject and I've never been
critical of his wife's profession or of the mental health profession
in general. All I've said is that it's not well understood,
something that even those who practice in the profession acknowledge.
We can see it often right now as the Florida shootings are discussed
by shrinks in interviews. When pressed for reasons Cruz acted as he
did, they can only speculate and admit that the actions of people
with mental health issues are not always clear or understood from a
psychiatric point of view. Lots of theories, that's all.

But to say that I or anyone else "don't know ****" about the subject
is just another one of Harry's "I am better than you, smarter than
you" attitudes that he has demonstrated in this newsgroup for over 20
years.

Geeze ... talk about mental health issues.




I don't know anyone in the biz who has ever claimed mental health
issues are completely understood. It is also true that very little
about the particulars of the mental health issues or treatment of Mr.
Cruz have been released. Most mental health issues, however, do not
manifest themselves in the ways those of Mr. Cruz has, assuming he
does have mental health issues. Many, maybe most people with serious
mental health issues that result in long-term hospitalization are shy
and introspective, and would not be the ones who act out with firearms.

We have serious firearm problems in this country.


The only firearms problem in Parkland was the lack of armed security.

On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 20:17:49 -0500, Alex wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/16/18 9:43 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2018 9:01 AM, Justan Ohlphart wrote:
On 2/16/2018 8:01 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/16/18 7:17 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

News reports now indicate that it was well known that Cruz was a
messed up kid and has a history of treatment at a mental health
facility. He told police "the Demons made me do it".

Lot of good the shrinks/therapists did for him or the 17 people
who died at the school in Florida Wednesday.


You don't know why he was referred for treatment.
You don't know if he was Baker-acted.
You don't know what his evaluation was.
You don't know what sort of treatment he received.
You don't know how many treatment sessions he received.
You don't know the credentials of whoever treated him.
You don't know if there was appropriate follow-up.

You don't know ****.

But you continue to give cover to Trump.

Do you know if the shrinkers alerted the authorities about the sicko
and his demons? There seems to be some criminal negligence going on
regarding mental health facilities. Should we put some heads on
pikes, eh, Fat Harry?



May as well let Harry back out of the Bozo Bin so I can directly
defend myself from his accusations.

It doesn't matter if I or anyone else has knowledge of every detail
available to us to form an opinion .... and that's all I've done. I
understand Harry's sensitivity to this subject and I've never been
critical of his wife's profession or of the mental health profession
in general. All I've said is that it's not well understood,
something that even those who practice in the profession acknowledge.
We can see it often right now as the Florida shootings are discussed
by shrinks in interviews. When pressed for reasons Cruz acted as he
did, they can only speculate and admit that the actions of people
with mental health issues are not always clear or understood from a
psychiatric point of view. Lots of theories, that's all.

But to say that I or anyone else "don't know ****" about the subject
is just another one of Harry's "I am better than you, smarter than
you" attitudes that he has demonstrated in this newsgroup for over 20
years.

Geeze ... talk about mental health issues.




I don't know anyone in the biz who has ever claimed mental health
issues are completely understood. It is also true that very little
about the particulars of the mental health issues or treatment of Mr.
Cruz have been released. Most mental health issues, however, do not
manifest themselves in the ways those of Mr. Cruz has, assuming he
does have mental health issues. Many, maybe most people with serious
mental health issues that result in long-term hospitalization are shy
and introspective, and would not be the ones who act out with firearms.

We have serious firearm problems in this country.


The only firearms problem in Parkland was the lack of armed security.

In this county all the doors to the schools, except the main entrance, can be opened only from the
inside. Even our little elementary school down the road requires the push of a button, image
displayed on the secretary's viewer, and then she must push the button to allow the door to be
opened from the outside. The high schools all have county cops in the schools.

On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 09:21:45 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 20:17:49 -0500, Alex wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/16/18 9:43 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2018 9:01 AM, Justan Ohlphart wrote:
On 2/16/2018 8:01 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/16/18 7:17 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

News reports now indicate that it was well known that Cruz was a
messed up kid and has a history of treatment at a mental health
facility. He told police "the Demons made me do it".

Lot of good the shrinks/therapists did for him or the 17 people
who died at the school in Florida Wednesday.


You don't know why he was referred for treatment.
You don't know if he was Baker-acted.
You don't know what his evaluation was.
You don't know what sort of treatment he received.
You don't know how many treatment sessions he received.
You don't know the credentials of whoever treated him.
You don't know if there was appropriate follow-up.

You don't know ****.

But you continue to give cover to Trump.

Do you know if the shrinkers alerted the authorities about the sicko
and his demons? There seems to be some criminal negligence going on
regarding mental health facilities. Should we put some heads on
pikes, eh, Fat Harry?



May as well let Harry back out of the Bozo Bin so I can directly
defend myself from his accusations.

It doesn't matter if I or anyone else has knowledge of every detail
available to us to form an opinion .... and that's all I've done. I
understand Harry's sensitivity to this subject and I've never been
critical of his wife's profession or of the mental health profession
in general. All I've said is that it's not well understood,
something that even those who practice in the profession acknowledge.
We can see it often right now as the Florida shootings are discussed
by shrinks in interviews. When pressed for reasons Cruz acted as he
did, they can only speculate and admit that the actions of people
with mental health issues are not always clear or understood from a
psychiatric point of view. Lots of theories, that's all.

But to say that I or anyone else "don't know ****" about the subject
is just another one of Harry's "I am better than you, smarter than
you" attitudes that he has demonstrated in this newsgroup for over 20
years.

Geeze ... talk about mental health issues.




I don't know anyone in the biz who has ever claimed mental health
issues are completely understood. It is also true that very little
about the particulars of the mental health issues or treatment of Mr.
Cruz have been released. Most mental health issues, however, do not
manifest themselves in the ways those of Mr. Cruz has, assuming he
does have mental health issues. Many, maybe most people with serious
mental health issues that result in long-term hospitalization are shy
and introspective, and would not be the ones who act out with firearms.

We have serious firearm problems in this country.


The only firearms problem in Parkland was the lack of armed security.

In this county all the doors to the schools, except the main entrance, can be opened only from the
inside. Even our little elementary school down the road requires the push of a button, image
displayed on the secretary's viewer, and then she must push the button to allow the door to be
opened from the outside. The high schools all have county cops in the schools.

Same here.

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 20:17:49 -0500, Alex wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/16/18 9:43 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2018 9:01 AM, Justan Ohlphart wrote:
On 2/16/2018 8:01 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/16/18 7:17 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
News reports now indicate that it was well known that Cruz was a
messed up kid and has a history of treatment at a mental health
facility. He told police "the Demons made me do it".

Lot of good the shrinks/therapists did for him or the 17 people
who died at the school in Florida Wednesday.

You don't know why he was referred for treatment.
You don't know if he was Baker-acted.
You don't know what his evaluation was.
You don't know what sort of treatment he received.
You don't know how many treatment sessions he received.
You don't know the credentials of whoever treated him.
You don't know if there was appropriate follow-up.

You don't know ****.

But you continue to give cover to Trump.
Do you know if the shrinkers alerted the authorities about the sicko
and his demons? There seems to be some criminal negligence going on
regarding mental health facilities. Should we put some heads on
pikes, eh, Fat Harry?


May as well let Harry back out of the Bozo Bin so I can directly
defend myself from his accusations.

It doesn't matter if I or anyone else has knowledge of every detail
available to us to form an opinion .... and that's all I've done. I
understand Harry's sensitivity to this subject and I've never been
critical of his wife's profession or of the mental health profession
in general. All I've said is that it's not well understood,
something that even those who practice in the profession acknowledge.
We can see it often right now as the Florida shootings are discussed
by shrinks in interviews. When pressed for reasons Cruz acted as he
did, they can only speculate and admit that the actions of people
with mental health issues are not always clear or understood from a
psychiatric point of view. Lots of theories, that's all.

But to say that I or anyone else "don't know ****" about the subject
is just another one of Harry's "I am better than you, smarter than
you" attitudes that he has demonstrated in this newsgroup for over 20
years.

Geeze ... talk about mental health issues.



I don't know anyone in the biz who has ever claimed mental health
issues are completely understood. It is also true that very little
about the particulars of the mental health issues or treatment of Mr.
Cruz have been released. Most mental health issues, however, do not
manifest themselves in the ways those of Mr. Cruz has, assuming he
does have mental health issues. Many, maybe most people with serious
mental health issues that result in long-term hospitalization are shy
and introspective, and would not be the ones who act out with firearms.

We have serious firearm problems in this country.

The only firearms problem in Parkland was the lack of armed security.
In this county all the doors to the schools, except the main entrance, can be opened only from the
inside. Even our little elementary school down the road requires the push of a button, image
displayed on the secretary's viewer, and then she must push the button to allow the door to be
opened from the outside. The high schools all have county cops in the schools.


So cheap and simple but not implemented at every school.