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Not guilty
The "not guilty" verdicts of Jose Ines Garcia Zarate for 1st or 2nd
degree murder and involuntary manslaughter by the jury in San Fransisco certainly has frustrated many. The judge charged the jury that they could *not* consider his illegal immigrant status, the fact that he was deported 6 times but returned and that he had multiple felony convictions in their deliberations. I think the family of Kathryn Steinle (who he shot and killed) should file a civil lawsuit for "unlawful death", but not against Zarate. He has nothing to recover. The suit should be brought against the city of San Fransisco and the state of California for at least a billion dollars. I think they should charge the city and state for causing the unlawful death by maintaining a "Sanctuary" status and releasing a convicted felon and illegal immigrant back into the population in direct defiance of federal ICE demands that he be held for pickup and deportation. In a civil action the bar is "preponderance of evidence", not "beyond any reasonable doubt". |
Not guilty
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:33:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: The "not guilty" verdicts of Jose Ines Garcia Zarate for 1st or 2nd degree murder and involuntary manslaughter by the jury in San Fransisco certainly has frustrated many. The judge charged the jury that they could *not* consider his illegal immigrant status, the fact that he was deported 6 times but returned and that he had multiple felony convictions in their deliberations. I think the family of Kathryn Steinle (who he shot and killed) should file a civil lawsuit for "unlawful death", but not against Zarate. He has nothing to recover. The suit should be brought against the city of San Fransisco and the state of California for at least a billion dollars. I think they should charge the city and state for causing the unlawful death by maintaining a "Sanctuary" status and releasing a convicted felon and illegal immigrant back into the population in direct defiance of federal ICE demands that he be held for pickup and deportation. In a civil action the bar is "preponderance of evidence", not "beyond any reasonable doubt". === Good plan. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com |
Not guilty
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
The "not guilty" verdicts of Jose Ines Garcia Zarate for 1st or 2nd degree murder and involuntary manslaughter by the jury in San Fransisco certainly has frustrated many. The judge charged the jury that they could *not* consider his illegal immigrant status, the fact that he was deported 6 times but returned and that he had multiple felony convictions in their deliberations. I think the family of Kathryn Steinle (who he shot and killed) should file a civil lawsuit for "unlawful death", but not against Zarate. He has nothing to recover. The suit should be brought against the city of San Fransisco and the state of California for at least a billion dollars. I think they should charge the city and state for causing the unlawful death by maintaining a "Sanctuary" status and releasing a convicted felon and illegal immigrant back into the population in direct defiance of federal ICE demands that he be held for pickup and deportation. In a civil action the bar is "preponderance of evidence", not "beyond any reasonable doubt". Perhaps now traction will be gained to remove federal funding of any kind from sanctuary cities. Musta been Fat Harriets relatives and think alikes on the jury. -- x ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
Not guilty
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 09:21:25 -0500 (EST), justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: The "not guilty" verdicts of Jose Ines Garcia Zarate for 1st or 2nd degree murder and involuntary manslaughter by the jury in San Fransisco certainly has frustrated many. The judge charged the jury that they could *not* consider his illegal immigrant status, the fact that he was deported 6 times but returned and that he had multiple felony convictions in their deliberations. I think the family of Kathryn Steinle (who he shot and killed) should file a civil lawsuit for "unlawful death", but not against Zarate. He has nothing to recover. The suit should be brought against the city of San Fransisco and the state of California for at least a billion dollars. I think they should charge the city and state for causing the unlawful death by maintaining a "Sanctuary" status and releasing a convicted felon and illegal immigrant back into the population in direct defiance of federal ICE demands that he be held for pickup and deportation. In a civil action the bar is "preponderance of evidence", not "beyond any reasonable doubt". Perhaps now traction will be gained to remove federal funding of any kind from sanctuary cities. Musta been Fat Harriets relatives and think alikes on the jury. === I don't know anything about the evidence but I suspect it must have been mostly circumstantial. The real provable crime is that the alleged perpatrator was releasied back into the population even though a convicted felon and illegal immigrant. It must be very demoralizing for the police to have that sort of thing going on. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com |
Not guilty
7:33 AMMr. Luddite The "not guilty" verdicts of Jose Ines Garcia Zarate for 1st or 2nd degree murder and involuntary manslaughter by the jury in San Fransisco certainly has frustrated many. The judge charged the jury that they could *not* consider his illegal immigrant status, the fact that he was deported 6 times but returned and that he had multiple felony convictions in their deliberations. I think the family of Kathryn Steinle (who he shot and killed) should file a civil lawsuit for "unlawful death", but not against Zarate. He has nothing to recover. The suit should be brought against the city of San Fransisco and the state of California for at least a billion dollars. I think they should charge the city and state for causing the unlawful death by maintaining a "Sanctuary" status and releasing a convicted felon and illegal immigrant back into the population in direct defiance of federal ICE demands that he be held for pickup and deportation. In a civil action the bar is "preponderance of evidence", not "beyond any reasonable doubt". ..... Sounds good to me. Don’t think it’d fly but may start class action suits that might change some foolishness... |
Not guilty
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:33:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: The "not guilty" verdicts of Jose Ines Garcia Zarate for 1st or 2nd degree murder and involuntary manslaughter by the jury in San Fransisco certainly has frustrated many. The judge charged the jury that they could *not* consider his illegal immigrant status, the fact that he was deported 6 times but returned and that he had multiple felony convictions in their deliberations. I think the family of Kathryn Steinle (who he shot and killed) should file a civil lawsuit for "unlawful death", but not against Zarate. He has nothing to recover. The suit should be brought against the city of San Fransisco and the state of California for at least a billion dollars. I think they should charge the city and state for causing the unlawful death by maintaining a "Sanctuary" status and releasing a convicted felon and illegal immigrant back into the population in direct defiance of federal ICE demands that he be held for pickup and deportation. In a civil action the bar is "preponderance of evidence", not "beyond any reasonable doubt". They also only need a majority of jurors and the rules of evidence are a lot looser. The problem is San Francisco may be as broke as this murdering mo fo. BTW NBC was reporting that this was a mistrial not an acquittal but it does not shock me when they get it wrong. I really find it surprising that the federal prosecutors can't find a single thing to charge this guy with. Where did he get the gun? Isn't it a federal violation for a felon to get a gun? Add up as many federal charges as they can get, lock his ass up for a while then deport him from Kansas or wherever he was "residing" at the time. The cities may be able to provide sanctuary from ICE (although I am not sure why) but they surely can't provide sanctuary from a federal prosecutor with criminal charges. If they had a sharp pencil they might be able to rack up a bunch of 10 year violations in gun charges alone ... but nobody actually enforces the laws we have on guns. |
Not guilty
On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:13:07 -0500,
wrote: On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 09:21:25 -0500 (EST), justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: The "not guilty" verdicts of Jose Ines Garcia Zarate for 1st or 2nd degree murder and involuntary manslaughter by the jury in San Fransisco certainly has frustrated many. The judge charged the jury that they could *not* consider his illegal immigrant status, the fact that he was deported 6 times but returned and that he had multiple felony convictions in their deliberations. I think the family of Kathryn Steinle (who he shot and killed) should file a civil lawsuit for "unlawful death", but not against Zarate. He has nothing to recover. The suit should be brought against the city of San Fransisco and the state of California for at least a billion dollars. I think they should charge the city and state for causing the unlawful death by maintaining a "Sanctuary" status and releasing a convicted felon and illegal immigrant back into the population in direct defiance of federal ICE demands that he be held for pickup and deportation. In a civil action the bar is "preponderance of evidence", not "beyond any reasonable doubt". Perhaps now traction will be gained to remove federal funding of any kind from sanctuary cities. Musta been Fat Harriets relatives and think alikes on the jury. === I don't know anything about the evidence but I suspect it must have been mostly circumstantial. The real provable crime is that the alleged perpatrator was releasied back into the population even though a convicted felon and illegal immigrant. It must be very demoralizing for the police to have that sort of thing going on. The way NBC-2 had it the judge declared a mistrial because a witness said something against his legal status here. CNN has it as an acquittal. http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/30/us/kat...ict/index.html It appears that they also got a conviction on the California charge of a felon with a gun. Maybe they can also bring federal gun charges that have far more severe consequences. At least it gets him out of California so ICE gets a shot at him. |
Not guilty
On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote:
nobody actually enforces the laws we have on guns. === I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent convictions in Florida. I believe one was for lying on the purchase questionaire. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/ Another was for possession by a felon. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com |
Not guilty
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 10:46:42 -0500 (EST), justan wrote:
Wrote in message: On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 09:21:25 -0500 (EST), justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: The "not guilty" verdicts of Jose Ines Garcia Zarate for 1st or 2nd degree murder and involuntary manslaughter by the jury in San Fransisco certainly has frustrated many. The judge charged the jury that they could *not* consider his illegal immigrant status, the fact that he was deported 6 times but returned and that he had multiple felony convictions in their deliberations. I think the family of Kathryn Steinle (who he shot and killed) should file a civil lawsuit for "unlawful death", but not against Zarate. He has nothing to recover. The suit should be brought against the city of San Fransisco and the state of California for at least a billion dollars. I think they should charge the city and state for causing the unlawful death by maintaining a "Sanctuary" status and releasing a convicted felon and illegal immigrant back into the population in direct defiance of federal ICE demands that he be held for pickup and deportation. In a civil action the bar is "preponderance of evidence", not "beyond any reasonable doubt". Perhaps now traction will be gained to remove federal funding of any kind from sanctuary cities. Musta been Fat Harriets relatives and think alikes on the jury. === I don't know anything about the evidence but I suspect it must have been mostly circumstantial. The real provable crime is that the alleged perpatrator was releasied back into the population even though a convicted felon and illegal immigrant. It must be very demoralizing for the police to have that sort of thing going on. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Also a felon with a gun. Gotta be jail time for that in a normal jurisdiction. CNN says up to 3 years on the California charge (and conviction). If the feds charged him it would be 10. |
Not guilty
Wrote in message:
On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote: nobody actually enforces the laws we have on guns. === I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent convictions in Florida. I believe one was for lying on the purchase questionaire. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/ Another was for possession by a felon. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com A little more investigsting would probably show she was making a straw purchace. May the hardest of times fall upon her. -- x ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
Not guilty
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 11:40:56 -0500 (EST), justan wrote:
Wrote in message: On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote: nobody actually enforces the laws we have on guns. === I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent convictions in Florida. I believe one was for lying on the purchase questionaire. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/ Another was for possession by a felon. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com A little more investigsting would probably show she was making a straw purchace. May the hardest of times fall upon her. === The Feds have their hooks well set it appears. 10 years with no possible parole is not a walk in the park. |
Not guilty
10:23 - show quoted text - CNN says up to 3 years on the California charge (and conviction). If the feds charged him it would be 10. .... That’s ok. Might be interesting to see how long he survives prison... |
Not guilty
On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote: nobody actually enforces the laws we have on guns. === I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent convictions in Florida. I believe one was for lying on the purchase questionaire. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/ Another was for possession by a felon. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual purchaser is also checked out. |
Not guilty
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote: On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote: nobody actually enforces the laws we have on guns. === I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent convictions in Florida. I believe one was for lying on the purchase questionaire. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/ Another was for possession by a felon. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual purchaser is also checked out. Gifts could have a couple scenarios. I am going to gift a 22 rifle that was my dad’s to my son in law. He already legally owns a pistol or two. One he bought and one was his dad’s service revolver. His late dad was an Los Angeles cop. |
Not guilty
On 12/1/17 8:46 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:33:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: The "not guilty" verdicts of Jose Ines Garcia Zarate for 1st or 2nd degree murder and involuntary manslaughter by the jury in San Fransisco certainly has frustrated many. The judge charged the jury that they could *not* consider his illegal immigrant status, the fact that he was deported 6 times but returned and that he had multiple felony convictions in their deliberations. I think the family of Kathryn Steinle (who he shot and killed) should file a civil lawsuit for "unlawful death", but not against Zarate. He has nothing to recover. The suit should be brought against the city of San Fransisco and the state of California for at least a billion dollars. I think they should charge the city and state for causing the unlawful death by maintaining a "Sanctuary" status and releasing a convicted felon and illegal immigrant back into the population in direct defiance of federal ICE demands that he be held for pickup and deportation. In a civil action the bar is "preponderance of evidence", not "beyond any reasonable doubt". === Good plan. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Lousy interpretation of what the law may do. Also, presenting evidence of a prior criminal history typically is not something the prosecution can bring up in a criminal case. |
Not guilty
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 12:11:10 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote: On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote: nobody actually enforces the laws we have on guns. === I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent convictions in Florida. I believe one was for lying on the purchase questionaire. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/ Another was for possession by a felon. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual purchaser is also checked out. The ATF Form 4473 allows the purchase of a gun as a gift without naming the recipient. How do you think all those Chicago boys get their guns? Boy gives momma the money, momma goes out of town (Chuck's Gun Shop maybe), buys the gun with all the correct answers on the 4473, and gives boy the gun. Amen. Hey, it was a 'gift'. |
Not guilty
On 12/1/17 12:17 PM, Bill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote: On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote: On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote: nobody actually enforces the laws we have on guns. === I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent convictions in Florida. I believe one was for lying on the purchase questionaire. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/ Another was for possession by a felon. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual purchaser is also checked out. Gifts could have a couple scenarios. I am going to gift a 22 rifle that was my dad’s to my son in law. He already legally owns a pistol or two. One he bought and one was his dad’s service revolver. His late dad was an Los Angeles cop. Gun laws seem incredibly inconsistent. If you buy a new rifle from a dealer in Maryland, there's only the federal instant check. When I sold a used rifle to a friend of a friend here in Maryland, I called the state police to see if there were paperwork or background requirements, and there were no federal requirements, either. |
Not guilty
On 12/1/2017 11:23 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 10:46:42 -0500 (EST), justan wrote: Wrote in message: On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 09:21:25 -0500 (EST), justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: The "not guilty" verdicts of Jose Ines Garcia Zarate for 1st or 2nd degree murder and involuntary manslaughter by the jury in San Fransisco certainly has frustrated many. The judge charged the jury that they could *not* consider his illegal immigrant status, the fact that he was deported 6 times but returned and that he had multiple felony convictions in their deliberations. I think the family of Kathryn Steinle (who he shot and killed) should file a civil lawsuit for "unlawful death", but not against Zarate. He has nothing to recover. The suit should be brought against the city of San Fransisco and the state of California for at least a billion dollars. I think they should charge the city and state for causing the unlawful death by maintaining a "Sanctuary" status and releasing a convicted felon and illegal immigrant back into the population in direct defiance of federal ICE demands that he be held for pickup and deportation. In a civil action the bar is "preponderance of evidence", not "beyond any reasonable doubt". Perhaps now traction will be gained to remove federal funding of any kind from sanctuary cities. Musta been Fat Harriets relatives and think alikes on the jury. === I don't know anything about the evidence but I suspect it must have been mostly circumstantial. The real provable crime is that the alleged perpatrator was releasied back into the population even though a convicted felon and illegal immigrant. It must be very demoralizing for the police to have that sort of thing going on. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Also a felon with a gun. Gotta be jail time for that in a normal jurisdiction. CNN says up to 3 years on the California charge (and conviction). If the feds charged him it would be 10. As it stands now he may be sentenced but more likely will be deported .... again. Heard prosecutors are considering federal charges though. Usually I don't like when people sue for anything they can get but in this case I'd love to see the city and state sued for enough that it rocks the financial foundations of both. Maybe then these crazy views on sanctuary places will change. |
Not guilty
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Not guilty
On 12/1/2017 12:11 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote: On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote: nobody actually enforces the laws we have on guns. === I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent convictions in Florida.Â* I believe one was for lying on the purchase questionaire. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/ Another was for possession by a felon. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual purchaser is also checked out. I've often thought about that. Without a proper paper trail it seems it could get very cloudy as to where a gun came from and where it ends up. For that reason, I'd never purchase a gun and give it as a gift. I think all transactions should be through a FFL. If someone wants a gun they can do like the rest of us do ... apply, undergo a background check ... and become responsible and accountable for it's location. |
Not guilty
On 12/1/2017 12:17 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/1/17 8:46 AM, wrote: On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:33:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: The "not guilty" verdicts of Jose Ines Garcia Zarate for 1st or 2nd degree murder and involuntary manslaughter by the jury in San Fransisco certainly has frustrated many.Â* The judge charged the jury that they could *not* consider his illegal immigrant status, the fact that he was deported 6 times but returned and that he had multiple felony convictions in their deliberations. I think the family of Kathryn Steinle (who he shot and killed) should file a civil lawsuit for "unlawful death", but not against Zarate.Â* He has nothing to recover. The suit should be brought against the city of San Fransisco and the state of California for at least a billion dollars.Â* I think they should charge the city and state for causing the unlawful death by maintaining a "Sanctuary" status and releasing a convicted felon and illegal immigrant back into the population in direct defiance of federal ICE demands that he be held for pickup and deportation. In a civil action the bar is "preponderance of evidence",Â* not "beyond any reasonable doubt". === Good plan. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Lousy interpretation of what the law may do. Also, presenting evidence of a prior criminal history typically is not something the prosecution can bring up in a criminal case. The perp is not a US citizen. The rights of a US citizen do not necessarily apply. You are just giving sanctuary cities and states a pass because they're a progressive -liberal thing. |
Not guilty
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 12:17:35 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/1/17 8:46 AM, wrote: On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:33:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: The "not guilty" verdicts of Jose Ines Garcia Zarate for 1st or 2nd degree murder and involuntary manslaughter by the jury in San Fransisco certainly has frustrated many. The judge charged the jury that they could *not* consider his illegal immigrant status, the fact that he was deported 6 times but returned and that he had multiple felony convictions in their deliberations. I think the family of Kathryn Steinle (who he shot and killed) should file a civil lawsuit for "unlawful death", but not against Zarate. He has nothing to recover. The suit should be brought against the city of San Fransisco and the state of California for at least a billion dollars. I think they should charge the city and state for causing the unlawful death by maintaining a "Sanctuary" status and releasing a convicted felon and illegal immigrant back into the population in direct defiance of federal ICE demands that he be held for pickup and deportation. In a civil action the bar is "preponderance of evidence", not "beyond any reasonable doubt". === Good plan. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Lousy interpretation of what the law may do. Also, presenting evidence of a prior criminal history typically is not something the prosecution can bring up in a criminal case. The family can certainly sue just about anyone in civil court for just about anything, particularly wrongful death. Winning may or may not happen and I am not even sure a judgement against the city would yield much. A far easier case would be for Sessions to go after this weasel on federal gun charges. That comes with real time and it would get him out of California where ICE gets a shot at him after he gets out of prison. Maybe in 20 years we will actually have a secure border and he won't be back after they deport him ... for the 6th time. |
Not guilty
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 12:57:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: The perp is not a US citizen. The rights of a US citizen do not necessarily apply. That has been adjudicated and upheld many times. If you are here, you get all the rights of a citizen except voting although plenty of aliens still vote. Motor Voter is a very leaky process and most people who qualify for a driver's license are solicited to register to vote. The ones NBC-2 caught here say they did not know they were not eligible. DMV let them so they thought it was OK. (or so they claim) |
Not guilty
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/1/17 8:46 AM, wrote: On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:33:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: The "not guilty" verdicts of Jose Ines Garcia Zarate for 1st or 2nd degree murder and involuntary manslaughter by the jury in San Fransisco certainly has frustrated many. The judge charged the jury that they could *not* consider his illegal immigrant status, the fact that he was deported 6 times but returned and that he had multiple felony convictions in their deliberations. I think the family of Kathryn Steinle (who he shot and killed) should file a civil lawsuit for "unlawful death", but not against Zarate. He has nothing to recover. The suit should be brought against the city of San Fransisco and the state of California for at least a billion dollars. I think they should charge the city and state for causing the unlawful death by maintaining a "Sanctuary" status and releasing a convicted felon and illegal immigrant back into the population in direct defiance of federal ICE demands that he be held for pickup and deportation. In a civil action the bar is "preponderance of evidence", not "beyond any reasonable doubt". === Good plan. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Lousy interpretation of what the law may do. Also, presenting evidence of a prior criminal history typically is not something the prosecution can bring up in a criminal case. Was a witness, not prosecution. And he brought up the fact he was here illegally. Is that a protected prior legal history! |
Not guilty
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/1/2017 12:11 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote: On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote: nobody actually enforces the laws we have on guns. === I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent convictions in Florida.Â* I believe one was for lying on the purchase questionaire. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/ Another was for possession by a felon. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual purchaser is also checked out. I've often thought about that. Without a proper paper trail it seems it could get very cloudy as to where a gun came from and where it ends up. For that reason, I'd never purchase a gun and give it as a gift. I think all transactions should be through a FFL. If someone wants a gun they can do like the rest of us do ... apply, undergo a background check ... and become responsible and accountable for it's location. And how much does this cost? |
Not guilty
On 12/1/2017 2:44 PM, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/1/2017 12:11 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote: On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote: nobody actually enforces the laws we have on guns. === I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent convictions in Florida.Â* I believe one was for lying on the purchase questionaire. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/ Another was for possession by a felon. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual purchaser is also checked out. I've often thought about that. Without a proper paper trail it seems it could get very cloudy as to where a gun came from and where it ends up. For that reason, I'd never purchase a gun and give it as a gift. I think all transactions should be through a FFL. If someone wants a gun they can do like the rest of us do ... apply, undergo a background check ... and become responsible and accountable for it's location. And how much does this cost? In Massachusetts it costs $100 and the permit is good for six years. $100 again to renew for another 6 years. Free over age of 70. Other than that, there are no additional charges to purchase a firearm other than the cost of the firearm itself. |
Not guilty
On 12/1/2017 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 12:17:35 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote: On 12/1/17 8:46 AM, wrote: On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:33:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: The "not guilty" verdicts of Jose Ines Garcia Zarate for 1st or 2nd degree murder and involuntary manslaughter by the jury in San Fransisco certainly has frustrated many. The judge charged the jury that they could *not* consider his illegal immigrant status, the fact that he was deported 6 times but returned and that he had multiple felony convictions in their deliberations. I think the family of Kathryn Steinle (who he shot and killed) should file a civil lawsuit for "unlawful death", but not against Zarate. He has nothing to recover. The suit should be brought against the city of San Fransisco and the state of California for at least a billion dollars. I think they should charge the city and state for causing the unlawful death by maintaining a "Sanctuary" status and releasing a convicted felon and illegal immigrant back into the population in direct defiance of federal ICE demands that he be held for pickup and deportation. In a civil action the bar is "preponderance of evidence", not "beyond any reasonable doubt". === Good plan. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Lousy interpretation of what the law may do. Also, presenting evidence of a prior criminal history typically is not something the prosecution can bring up in a criminal case. The family can certainly sue just about anyone in civil court for just about anything, particularly wrongful death. Winning may or may not happen and I am not even sure a judgement against the city would yield much. A far easier case would be for Sessions to go after this weasel on federal gun charges. That comes with real time and it would get him out of California where ICE gets a shot at him after he gets out of prison. Maybe in 20 years we will actually have a secure border and he won't be back after they deport him ... for the 6th time. Only problem is it doesn't put any squeeze on San Francisco or California for being a sanctuary city and state. |
Not guilty
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 15:20:28 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: Only problem is it doesn't put any squeeze on San Francisco or California for being a sanctuary city and state. As long as the feds are not allowed to use the only real leverage they have, federal tax dollars, I doubt there is much that can be done. Is it actually a federal crime to be here illegally? (not a deportable situation, a crime) If so, maybe the AJ could pursue obstruction of justice charges. I really do not know and I am getting on the boat in 10 seconds. I may look it up later |
Not guilty
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/1/2017 2:44 PM, Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/1/2017 12:11 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote: On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote: nobody actually enforces the laws we have on guns. === I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent convictions in Florida.Â* I believe one was for lying on the purchase questionaire. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/ Another was for possession by a felon. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual purchaser is also checked out. I've often thought about that. Without a proper paper trail it seems it could get very cloudy as to where a gun came from and where it ends up. For that reason, I'd never purchase a gun and give it as a gift. I think all transactions should be through a FFL. If someone wants a gun they can do like the rest of us do ... apply, undergo a background check ... and become responsible and accountable for it's location. And how much does this cost? In Massachusetts it costs $100 and the permit is good for six years. $100 again to renew for another 6 years. Free over age of 70. Other than that, there are no additional charges to purchase a firearm other than the cost of the firearm itself. Pretty expensive when someone already owns a firearm, and the receiver also owns firearms. Here you pay for the background check and the FFL transfer. So probably $75. We do not require a license to own a forearm in Calif. |
Not guilty
On 12/1/2017 6:06 PM, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/1/2017 2:44 PM, Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/1/2017 12:11 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote: On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote: nobody actually enforces the laws we have on guns. === I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent convictions in Florida.Â* I believe one was for lying on the purchase questionaire. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/ Another was for possession by a felon. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual purchaser is also checked out. I've often thought about that. Without a proper paper trail it seems it could get very cloudy as to where a gun came from and where it ends up. For that reason, I'd never purchase a gun and give it as a gift. I think all transactions should be through a FFL. If someone wants a gun they can do like the rest of us do ... apply, undergo a background check ... and become responsible and accountable for it's location. And how much does this cost? In Massachusetts it costs $100 and the permit is good for six years. $100 again to renew for another 6 years. Free over age of 70. Other than that, there are no additional charges to purchase a firearm other than the cost of the firearm itself. Pretty expensive when someone already owns a firearm, and the receiver also owns firearms. Here you pay for the background check and the FFL transfer. So probably $75. We do not require a license to own a forearm in Calif. We don't pay for a background check every time we buy a firearm. The $100 we pay every six years is for the background check required for a permit. As long as the permit remains valid you can buy all the guns you want. There's a computer check made at the time of purchase to make sure nothing has changed (felony conviction, restraining order, etc.) but we don't pay for that. |
Not guilty
On Friday, 1 December 2017 19:06:05 UTC-4, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/1/2017 2:44 PM, Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/1/2017 12:11 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote: On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote: nobody actually enforces the laws we have on guns. === I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent convictions in Florida.Â* I believe one was for lying on the purchase questionaire. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/ Another was for possession by a felon. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual purchaser is also checked out. I've often thought about that. Without a proper paper trail it seems it could get very cloudy as to where a gun came from and where it ends up. For that reason, I'd never purchase a gun and give it as a gift. I think all transactions should be through a FFL. If someone wants a gun they can do like the rest of us do ... apply, undergo a background check ... and become responsible and accountable for it's location. And how much does this cost? In Massachusetts it costs $100 and the permit is good for six years. $100 again to renew for another 6 years. Free over age of 70. Other than that, there are no additional charges to purchase a firearm other than the cost of the firearm itself. Pretty expensive when someone already owns a firearm, and the receiver also owns firearms. Here you pay for the background check and the FFL transfer. So probably $75. We do not require a license to own a forearm in Calif. Say what? In the 68 years I've possessed two "forearms" I've never been asked to register or pay any kind of fee or to license them. I suppose some girliemen might consider them dangerous weapons though. ~~ Snerk ~~ |
Not guilty
True North Wrote in message:
On Friday, 1 December 2017 19:06:05 UTC-4, Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/1/2017 2:44 PM, Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/1/2017 12:11 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote: On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote: nobody actually enforces the laws we have on guns. === I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent convictions in Florida. I believe one was for lying on the purchase questionaire. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/ Another was for possession by a felon. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual purchaser is also checked out. I've often thought about that. Without a proper paper trail it seems it could get very cloudy as to where a gun came from and where it ends up. For that reason, I'd never purchase a gun and give it as a gift. I think all transactions should be through a FFL. If someone wants a gun they can do like the rest of us do ... apply, undergo a background check ... and become responsible and accountable for it's location. And how much does this cost? In Massachusetts it costs $100 and the permit is good for six years. $100 again to renew for another 6 years. Free over age of 70. Other than that, there are no additional charges to purchase a firearm other than the cost of the firearm itself. Pretty expensive when someone already owns a firearm, and the receiver also owns firearms. Here you pay for the background check and the FFL transfer. So probably $75. We do not require a license to own a forearm in Calif. Say what? In the 68 years I've possessed two "forearms" I've never been asked to register or pay any kind of fee or to license them. I suppose some girliemen might consider them dangerous weapons though. ~~ Snerk ~~ 2 forearms eh. No shortarms, I'll bet. -- x ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
Not guilty
True North wrote:
On Friday, 1 December 2017 19:06:05 UTC-4, Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/1/2017 2:44 PM, Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/1/2017 12:11 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote: On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote: nobody actually enforces the laws we have on guns. === I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent convictions in Florida.Â* I believe one was for lying on the purchase questionaire. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/ Another was for possession by a felon. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual purchaser is also checked out. I've often thought about that. Without a proper paper trail it seems it could get very cloudy as to where a gun came from and where it ends up. For that reason, I'd never purchase a gun and give it as a gift. I think all transactions should be through a FFL. If someone wants a gun they can do like the rest of us do ... apply, undergo a background check ... and become responsible and accountable for it's location. And how much does this cost? In Massachusetts it costs $100 and the permit is good for six years. $100 again to renew for another 6 years. Free over age of 70. Other than that, there are no additional charges to purchase a firearm other than the cost of the firearm itself. Pretty expensive when someone already owns a firearm, and the receiver also owns firearms. Here you pay for the background check and the FFL transfer. So probably $75. We do not require a license to own a forearm in Calif. Say what? In the 68 years I've possessed two "forearms" I've never been asked to register or pay any kind of fee or to license them. I suppose some girliemen might consider them dangerous weapons though. ~~ Snerk ~~ Say what. You flaunting your stupidity? |
Not guilty
Bill wrote:
True North wrote: On Friday, 1 December 2017 19:06:05 UTC-4, Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/1/2017 2:44 PM, Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/1/2017 12:11 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote: On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote: nobody actually enforces the laws we have on guns. === I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent convictions in Florida. I believe one was for lying on the purchase questionaire. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/ Another was for possession by a felon. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual purchaser is also checked out. I've often thought about that. Without a proper paper trail it seems it could get very cloudy as to where a gun came from and where it ends up. For that reason, I'd never purchase a gun and give it as a gift. I think all transactions should be through a FFL. If someone wants a gun they can do like the rest of us do ... apply, undergo a background check ... and become responsible and accountable for it's location. And how much does this cost? In Massachusetts it costs $100 and the permit is good for six years. $100 again to renew for another 6 years. Free over age of 70. Other than that, there are no additional charges to purchase a firearm other than the cost of the firearm itself. Pretty expensive when someone already owns a firearm, and the receiver also owns firearms. Here you pay for the background check and the FFL transfer. So probably $75. We do not require a license to own a forearm in Calif. Say what? In the 68 years I've possessed two "forearms" I've never been asked to register or pay any kind of fee or to license them. I suppose some girliemen might consider them dangerous weapons though. ~~ Snerk ~~ Say what. You flaunting your stupidity? Always. |
Not guilty
On Friday, 1 December 2017 21:44:56 UTC-4, Bill wrote:
True North wrote: On Friday, 1 December 2017 19:06:05 UTC-4, Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/1/2017 2:44 PM, Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/1/2017 12:11 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote: On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote: nobody actually enforces the laws we have on guns. === I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent convictions in Florida.Â* I believe one was for lying on the purchase questionaire. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/ Another was for possession by a felon. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual purchaser is also checked out. I've often thought about that. Without a proper paper trail it seems it could get very cloudy as to where a gun came from and where it ends up. For that reason, I'd never purchase a gun and give it as a gift. I think all transactions should be through a FFL. If someone wants a gun they can do like the rest of us do ... apply, undergo a background check ... and become responsible and accountable for it's location. And how much does this cost? In Massachusetts it costs $100 and the permit is good for six years. $100 again to renew for another 6 years. Free over age of 70. Other than that, there are no additional charges to purchase a firearm other than the cost of the firearm itself. Pretty expensive when someone already owns a firearm, and the receiver also owns firearms. Here you pay for the background check and the FFL transfer. So probably $75. We do not require a license to own a forearm in Calif. Say what? In the 68 years I've possessed two "forearms" I've never been asked to register or pay any kind of fee or to license them. I suppose some girliemen might consider them dangerous weapons though. ~~ Snerk ~~ Say what. You flaunting your stupidity? No...just pointing our yours, which I seem to be doing more and more often. What is that saying about keeping quiet and thought of as a fool rather than opening your mouth and removing all doubt... |
Not guilty
True North wrote:
On Friday, 1 December 2017 21:44:56 UTC-4, Bill wrote: True North wrote: On Friday, 1 December 2017 19:06:05 UTC-4, Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/1/2017 2:44 PM, Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/1/2017 12:11 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote: On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote: nobody actually enforces the laws we have on guns. === I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent convictions in Florida.Â* I believe one was for lying on the purchase questionaire. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/ Another was for possession by a felon. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual purchaser is also checked out. I've often thought about that. Without a proper paper trail it seems it could get very cloudy as to where a gun came from and where it ends up. For that reason, I'd never purchase a gun and give it as a gift. I think all transactions should be through a FFL. If someone wants a gun they can do like the rest of us do ... apply, undergo a background check ... and become responsible and accountable for it's location. And how much does this cost? In Massachusetts it costs $100 and the permit is good for six years. $100 again to renew for another 6 years. Free over age of 70. Other than that, there are no additional charges to purchase a firearm other than the cost of the firearm itself. Pretty expensive when someone already owns a firearm, and the receiver also owns firearms. Here you pay for the background check and the FFL transfer. So probably $75. We do not require a license to own a forearm in Calif. Say what? In the 68 years I've possessed two "forearms" I've never been asked to register or pay any kind of fee or to license them. I suppose some girliemen might consider them dangerous weapons though. ~~ Snerk ~~ Say what. You flaunting your stupidity? No...just pointing our yours, which I seem to be doing more and more often. What is that saying about keeping quiet and thought of as a fool rather than opening your mouth and removing all doubt... Yes you should not open your keyboard. |
Not guilty
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 18:26:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: We don't pay for a background check every time we buy a firearm. The $100 we pay every six years is for the background check required for a permit. As long as the permit remains valid you can buy all the guns you want. There's a computer check made at the time of purchase to make sure nothing has changed (felony conviction, restraining order, etc.) but we don't pay for that. In Florida that comes with the CCW. |
Not guilty
|
Not guilty
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 23:06:03 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/1/2017 2:44 PM, Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/1/2017 12:11 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote: On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote: nobody actually enforces the laws we have on guns. === I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent convictions in Florida.* I believe one was for lying on the purchase questionaire. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/ Another was for possession by a felon. https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual purchaser is also checked out. I've often thought about that. Without a proper paper trail it seems it could get very cloudy as to where a gun came from and where it ends up. For that reason, I'd never purchase a gun and give it as a gift. I think all transactions should be through a FFL. If someone wants a gun they can do like the rest of us do ... apply, undergo a background check ... and become responsible and accountable for it's location. And how much does this cost? In Massachusetts it costs $100 and the permit is good for six years. $100 again to renew for another 6 years. Free over age of 70. Other than that, there are no additional charges to purchase a firearm other than the cost of the firearm itself. Pretty expensive when someone already owns a firearm, and the receiver also owns firearms. Here you pay for the background check and the FFL transfer. So probably $75. We do not require a license to own a forearm in Calif. It's the liberals racist approach to firearms ownership. Make ownership really difficult, and black gun ownership is automatically suppressed. After all, isn't the difficulty of getting an ID the reason it's not required for voting in so many states? |
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