amdx wrote:
On 11/19/2017 11:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/19/2017 11:27 AM, amdx wrote:
On 11/17/2017 8:46 PM, amdx wrote:
On 11/16/2017 11:53 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/16/2017 12:45 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
Bill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 11/16/17 10:30 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 08:46:22 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:


Fortunately, President Trump and the Republicans are coming
along with
some desperately needed tax relief for billionaires.

The tax plan as described in my newspaper saves me about 30%
on my
taxes and I am far from a billionaire. I am starting to think
I am the
poorest guy here with a family income of about 100 grand.
(less this
year because my wife is not working right now)


Doubtful it will work out for you that way and I suppose you
have given
up being a deficit hawk.


40% I understand pay no income tax. So they will not be helped
or hurt.
You, seem to ignore paying taxes, so will you be helped or hurt?



I pay a lot more in taxes on earned income than you ever have.



Big deal.

I've probably paid more in taxes than you've ever earned in income.


I don't know if you guys are bragging or complaining, but I'll
brag.
With two SEPs, an HSA, 4 dependents, credits for college expenses,
$3000
loss writeoff and a other few items my Federal tax was 0.82% on
over $100k. I usually get it down between 2% and 4% but this year
the college
credit dropped it a lot.
The key is to save money so you can put it in a SEP, HSA or 401k
and pay not taxes on those funds.

No one ever seems to respond when I discuss saving money.
It's just so true that most people think it is to hard to save, the
corporations don't want you to, the government makes it impossible,
I need to have a new car every two years, I need to have the latest
cellphone, I want a big house, I need to eat out 9 times a week, I
couldn't live without cable TV, houses are just too expensive,I
needed a new $1500 couch, The kids need gymnastics class, the kids
need private school, the list is endless and it's always somebody
else's fault.
If you want to make a change, look into 'MR Money Mustache' Blog
and forum.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Mr+M...nt=firefox-b-1


Mikek


I think some people obsess in saving or "making money" though. Money
can buy you the things you desire but you have to be willing to spend
it to get them.

My philosophy has been to take care of the important things ...
meaning financial security in retirement/old age, financial support
when needed family members and others to gain them opportunity and
after all that is taken care of ... enjoy life. It's too short to
constantly worrying about money.

Worry is one thing, never putting any thought to the future is another.
I suspect there are more people that worry about the lack of money
than on how to acquire or save more.

Mikek


Too many people spend every dime they make, don't take advantage of
401K's, and wonder how they are going to retire on SS alone.

On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 19:12:12 -0500, Alex wrote:



Too many people spend every dime they make, don't take advantage of
401K's, and wonder how they are going to retire on SS alone.

I also wonder how anyone over 50 or so with a mortgage and car
payments ever expects to retire. I paid cash for my house here in 84
and I paid off my mortgage on the condo in 1990. I haven't had a car
payment since the Nixon administration. In spite of all of that I
sound like a pauper when I hear how much money you guys make.

wrote:
On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 19:12:12 -0500, Alex wrote:



Too many people spend every dime they make, don't take advantage of
401K's, and wonder how they are going to retire on SS alone.

I also wonder how anyone over 50 or so with a mortgage and car
payments ever expects to retire. I paid cash for my house here in 84
and I paid off my mortgage on the condo in 1990. I haven't had a car
payment since the Nixon administration. In spite of all of that I
sound like a pauper when I hear how much money you guys make.


Last car I financed was wife’s Venza 2009. Interest rate was way lower
than investment income. I am comfortable, but California costs a lot more
than Florida.

On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:15:21 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 19:12:12 -0500, Alex wrote:



Too many people spend every dime they make, don't take advantage of
401K's, and wonder how they are going to retire on SS alone.

I also wonder how anyone over 50 or so with a mortgage and car
payments ever expects to retire. I paid cash for my house here in 84
and I paid off my mortgage on the condo in 1990. I haven't had a car
payment since the Nixon administration. In spite of all of that I
sound like a pauper when I hear how much money you guys make.


===

Smart borrowing, i.e., borrowing to buy an appreciating asset is good
business when you can earn a higher return than your after tax
interest cost. Even if you can afford to pay cash, borrowing makes
sense if you can invest your cash at a higher return.

---
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On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:15:21 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 19:12:12 -0500, Alex wrote:



Too many people spend every dime they make, don't take advantage of
401K's, and wonder how they are going to retire on SS alone.

I also wonder how anyone over 50 or so with a mortgage and car
payments ever expects to retire. I paid cash for my house here in 84
and I paid off my mortgage on the condo in 1990. I haven't had a car
payment since the Nixon administration. In spite of all of that I
sound like a pauper when I hear how much money you guys make.

Gotta admit, it took me 15 years to pay for my house!

And you think you feel like a pauper!

On Tue, 21 Nov 2017 04:10:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 19:12:12 -0500, Alex wrote:



Too many people spend every dime they make, don't take advantage of
401K's, and wonder how they are going to retire on SS alone.

I also wonder how anyone over 50 or so with a mortgage and car
payments ever expects to retire. I paid cash for my house here in 84
and I paid off my mortgage on the condo in 1990. I haven't had a car
payment since the Nixon administration. In spite of all of that I
sound like a pauper when I hear how much money you guys make.


Last car I financed was wife’s Venza 2009. Interest rate was way lower
than investment income. I am comfortable, but California costs a lot more
than Florida.

We financed my wife's new Subaru. Zero percent interest was hard to beat, and that was after we got
the price we wanted.

On Tue, 21 Nov 2017 09:13:27 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:15:21 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 19:12:12 -0500, Alex wrote:



Too many people spend every dime they make, don't take advantage of
401K's, and wonder how they are going to retire on SS alone.

I also wonder how anyone over 50 or so with a mortgage and car
payments ever expects to retire. I paid cash for my house here in 84
and I paid off my mortgage on the condo in 1990. I haven't had a car
payment since the Nixon administration. In spite of all of that I
sound like a pauper when I hear how much money you guys make.


===

Smart borrowing, i.e., borrowing to buy an appreciating asset is good
business when you can earn a higher return than your after tax
interest cost. Even if you can afford to pay cash, borrowing makes
sense if you can invest your cash at a higher return.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

My Dutch friend's grandson gets government student loans, at zero percent interest, and promptly
puts the money in an interest earning account. The interest rate may change next year, but right now
Dutch college students are getting a pretty good deal.

On Tue, 21 Nov 2017 09:13:27 -0500,
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:15:21 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 19:12:12 -0500, Alex wrote:



Too many people spend every dime they make, don't take advantage of
401K's, and wonder how they are going to retire on SS alone.

I also wonder how anyone over 50 or so with a mortgage and car
payments ever expects to retire. I paid cash for my house here in 84
and I paid off my mortgage on the condo in 1990. I haven't had a car
payment since the Nixon administration. In spite of all of that I
sound like a pauper when I hear how much money you guys make.


===

Smart borrowing, i.e., borrowing to buy an appreciating asset is good
business when you can earn a higher return than your after tax
interest cost. Even if you can afford to pay cash, borrowing makes
sense if you can invest your cash at a higher return.

That probably describes a house, particularly a second home or a
rental but not necessarily your residence unless you want to sell it
and downsize or live in your car in your old age.
Your home is not your piggy bank., We should have learned that a
decade ago.
Cars, boats and just about every other toy is not going to be an
appreciating asset. It is just an expense and you do not want that to
be an expense that you also pay interest on. Rationalizing that you
invested the money you spent on your toys and the interest is zero
only says you have more money than you need. That does not describe
most Americans and if the **** does hit the fan, as can happen to the
retired, you lose your toys. If that is your car, it is a significant
loss.
Normal people should not be going into retirement with debt unless
they have the liquid assets to pay that debt off ... and that is rare.

Personally I like the idea that I can cut back on the luxuries I pay
cash for and live very cheap if I need to because I don't owe anyone
any money.

On Tue, 21 Nov 2017 11:14:18 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Nov 2017 09:13:27 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:15:21 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 19:12:12 -0500, Alex wrote:



Too many people spend every dime they make, don't take advantage of
401K's, and wonder how they are going to retire on SS alone.

I also wonder how anyone over 50 or so with a mortgage and car
payments ever expects to retire. I paid cash for my house here in 84
and I paid off my mortgage on the condo in 1990. I haven't had a car
payment since the Nixon administration. In spite of all of that I
sound like a pauper when I hear how much money you guys make.


===

Smart borrowing, i.e., borrowing to buy an appreciating asset is good
business when you can earn a higher return than your after tax
interest cost. Even if you can afford to pay cash, borrowing makes
sense if you can invest your cash at a higher return.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

My Dutch friend's grandson gets government student loans, at zero percent interest, and promptly
puts the money in an interest earning account. The interest rate may change next year, but right now
Dutch college students are getting a pretty good deal.

===

That's a perfect example of smart borrowing as long as the funds are
invested safely, the interest rate is guaranteed and the loan can be
repaid without penalty. Everyone's situation and tolerance for risk
is different however.

On Tue, 21 Nov 2017 11:17:22 -0500, wrote:

Normal people should not be going into retirement with debt unless
they have the liquid assets to pay that debt off ... and that is rare.

Personally I like the idea that I can cut back on the luxuries I pay
cash for and live very cheap if I need to because I don't owe anyone
any money.

===

Everyone's situation is different. I have no problem carrying debt
forever as long as I can earn a higher return somewhere else.
Additionally, the government subsidizes home mortgages via the tax
deduction on interest paid.

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