Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/29/2017 9:05 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 08:50:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/28/2017 11:18 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
This could also be titled "How Not to Run an Inlet in Heavy Weather."
Burying the bow into the back of the wave in front is not unusual but
this is a bit extreme and with the wrong boat.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BayTiEmneTm/



Yuck. Jupiter Inlet can be dangerous even in larger boats. I used it
several times with the Navigator and, unless it was flat calm, it was
always a bit nerve wracking.

It also has shouling issues that shifts the bottom and deep water areas
after storms. Before going out I usually called Boat US because they
provided up to date information as to where to head as you left the
inlet or upon your return. Often, they didn't recommend using it at
all, especially during the winter months when the off shore seas down
there tend to be rough.

During the time I had the boat there the USCG did not list Jupiter Inlet
as a "navigable" passage and recommended using another inlet south of
it in the Palm Beach area. Don't know if that has changed.



===

There have been a lot of mishaps there. The charts say "Passage not
recommended without local knowledge of all hazardous conditions
affecting the area."

Of course local boats use it all the time and some get in trouble.
Several years ago a big sportfish broached on the face of a breaking
wave and the captain was thrown overboard from the flybridge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Psa49dMJdU



What's weird about Jupiter Inlet is that from shore the waves don't look
all that big but if you watch a Sportsfish (like the one shown in your
link) leave the inlet, the whole boat, including the upper station will
disappear as it rides down between the incoming swells or waves.



Reminds me of San Francisco Bay in some areas. Where you need to slow
down.

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/29/2017 12:35 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 23:18:12 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

This could also be titled "How Not to Run an Inlet in Heavy Weather."
Burying the bow into the back of the wave in front is not unusual but
this is a bit extreme and with the wrong boat.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BayTiEmneTm/

Some guys I know were going out of the inlet at St James City into
those standing waves in a 24' Carolina skiff. at night. They got
sideways to the sea and flipped it. Everyone got out OK but it was
scary. They were able to swim home, get another boat and go get the
skiff.



There's a video somewhere on YouTube of a 48 foot sportsfish capsizing
in the same manner leaving Jupiter Inlet. The boat's captain fell out
and drowned.

Here's a video of some guys on a 34' center console approaching
Jupiter inlet. It shows how it gets rougher as you get closer to the
inlet due to the shallow water. (and this wasn't a really *bad* day.
The guy sitting in front of the console gets soaked at about 2:18 into
the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8notH7LZnM

That takes some expert throttle control.

On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 19:17:25 -0400, Alex wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/29/2017 12:35 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 23:18:12 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

This could also be titled "How Not to Run an Inlet in Heavy Weather."
Burying the bow into the back of the wave in front is not unusual but
this is a bit extreme and with the wrong boat.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BayTiEmneTm/

Some guys I know were going out of the inlet at St James City into
those standing waves in a 24' Carolina skiff. at night. They got
sideways to the sea and flipped it. Everyone got out OK but it was
scary. They were able to swim home, get another boat and go get the
skiff.



There's a video somewhere on YouTube of a 48 foot sportsfish capsizing
in the same manner leaving Jupiter Inlet. The boat's captain fell out
and drowned.

Here's a video of some guys on a 34' center console approaching
Jupiter inlet. It shows how it gets rougher as you get closer to the
inlet due to the shallow water. (and this wasn't a really *bad* day.
The guy sitting in front of the console gets soaked at about 2:18 into
the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8notH7LZnM

That takes some expert throttle control.


===

Best strategy in my experience is to run slower than the waves with
the bow trimmed well up. Once you crest a wave and drive down into
the next one in front, you never know what's going to happen. I've
been on 50 ft sailboats where we've taken solid green water all the
way back to the mast after surfing into the wave in front.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

wrote:
On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 19:17:25 -0400, Alex wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/29/2017 12:35 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 23:18:12 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

This could also be titled "How Not to Run an Inlet in Heavy Weather."
Burying the bow into the back of the wave in front is not unusual but
this is a bit extreme and with the wrong boat.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BayTiEmneTm/

Some guys I know were going out of the inlet at St James City into
those standing waves in a 24' Carolina skiff. at night. They got
sideways to the sea and flipped it. Everyone got out OK but it was
scary. They were able to swim home, get another boat and go get the
skiff.



There's a video somewhere on YouTube of a 48 foot sportsfish capsizing
in the same manner leaving Jupiter Inlet. The boat's captain fell out
and drowned.

Here's a video of some guys on a 34' center console approaching
Jupiter inlet. It shows how it gets rougher as you get closer to the
inlet due to the shallow water. (and this wasn't a really *bad* day.
The guy sitting in front of the console gets soaked at about 2:18 into
the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8notH7LZnM

That takes some expert throttle control.


===

Best strategy in my experience is to run slower than the waves with
the bow trimmed well up. Once you crest a wave and drive down into
the next one in front, you never know what's going to happen. I've
been on 50 ft sailboats where we've taken solid green water all the
way back to the mast after surfing into the wave in front.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com



I thought they were going way to fast for conditions.

On 10/30/2017 10:15 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 19:17:25 -0400, Alex wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/29/2017 12:35 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 23:18:12 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

This could also be titled "How Not to Run an Inlet in Heavy Weather."
Burying the bow into the back of the wave in front is not unusual but
this is a bit extreme and with the wrong boat.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BayTiEmneTm/

Some guys I know were going out of the inlet at St James City into
those standing waves in a 24' Carolina skiff. at night. They got
sideways to the sea and flipped it. Everyone got out OK but it was
scary. They were able to swim home, get another boat and go get the
skiff.



There's a video somewhere on YouTube of a 48 foot sportsfish capsizing
in the same manner leaving Jupiter Inlet. The boat's captain fell out
and drowned.

Here's a video of some guys on a 34' center console approaching
Jupiter inlet. It shows how it gets rougher as you get closer to the
inlet due to the shallow water. (and this wasn't a really *bad* day.
The guy sitting in front of the console gets soaked at about 2:18 into
the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8notH7LZnM

That takes some expert throttle control.


===

Best strategy in my experience is to run slower than the waves with
the bow trimmed well up. Once you crest a wave and drive down into
the next one in front, you never know what's going to happen. I've
been on 50 ft sailboats where we've taken solid green water all the
way back to the mast after surfing into the wave in front.


I remember heading for an inlet to the ICW after an offshore run with
some very large, short period and fast moving swells following right on
the stern.

The channel was narrow, so there really was no choice but to head
directly towards the inlet. Every time the stern would lift as one of
the swells passed under the boat, I could feel the rudders lose bite and
the bow would plant it's self off in a totally different heading. It
was nerve wracking.

On Tue, 31 Oct 2017 05:33:44 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/30/2017 10:15 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 19:17:25 -0400, Alex wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/29/2017 12:35 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 23:18:12 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

This could also be titled "How Not to Run an Inlet in Heavy Weather."
Burying the bow into the back of the wave in front is not unusual but
this is a bit extreme and with the wrong boat.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BayTiEmneTm/

Some guys I know were going out of the inlet at St James City into
those standing waves in a 24' Carolina skiff. at night. They got
sideways to the sea and flipped it. Everyone got out OK but it was
scary. They were able to swim home, get another boat and go get the
skiff.



There's a video somewhere on YouTube of a 48 foot sportsfish capsizing
in the same manner leaving Jupiter Inlet. The boat's captain fell out
and drowned.

Here's a video of some guys on a 34' center console approaching
Jupiter inlet. It shows how it gets rougher as you get closer to the
inlet due to the shallow water. (and this wasn't a really *bad* day.
The guy sitting in front of the console gets soaked at about 2:18 into
the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8notH7LZnM

That takes some expert throttle control.


===

Best strategy in my experience is to run slower than the waves with
the bow trimmed well up. Once you crest a wave and drive down into
the next one in front, you never know what's going to happen. I've
been on 50 ft sailboats where we've taken solid green water all the
way back to the mast after surfing into the wave in front.


I remember heading for an inlet to the ICW after an offshore run with
some very large, short period and fast moving swells following right on
the stern.

The channel was narrow, so there really was no choice but to head
directly towards the inlet. Every time the stern would lift as one of
the swells passed under the boat, I could feel the rudders lose bite and
the bow would plant it's self off in a totally different heading. It
was nerve wracking.


===

It certainly is. The loss of steering control is what leads to boats
being turned sideways to a breaking wave, with a subsequent broach or
capsize. Even larger boats are vulnerable if caught sideways in the
curl. On our first transit of Barnegat inlet in New Jersey there was
an 80 foot commercial fishing boat high and dry on a sand bar to port
after being broached out of the channel. If they'd been broached to
starboard it would have taken them into the breakwater rocks.

It has been calculated that a breaking wave slightly higher than half
your boat's beam can cause a capsize. For the average trailerable
boat with a beam of 8 1/2 feet that's a wave height of less than 5 ft,
a fairly common occurrence near ocean inlets.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

Bill Wrote in message:
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 19:17:25 -0400, Alex wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/29/2017 12:35 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 23:18:12 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

This could also be titled "How Not to Run an Inlet in Heavy Weather."
Burying the bow into the back of the wave in front is not unusual but
this is a bit extreme and with the wrong boat.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BayTiEmneTm/

Some guys I know were going out of the inlet at St James City into
those standing waves in a 24' Carolina skiff. at night. They got
sideways to the sea and flipped it. Everyone got out OK but it was
scary. They were able to swim home, get another boat and go get the
skiff.



There's a video somewhere on YouTube of a 48 foot sportsfish capsizing
in the same manner leaving Jupiter Inlet. The boat's captain fell out
and drowned.

Here's a video of some guys on a 34' center console approaching
Jupiter inlet. It shows how it gets rougher as you get closer to the
inlet due to the shallow water. (and this wasn't a really *bad* day.
The guy sitting in front of the console gets soaked at about 2:18 into
the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8notH7LZnM

That takes some expert throttle control.


===

Best strategy in my experience is to run slower than the waves with
the bow trimmed well up. Once you crest a wave and drive down into
the next one in front, you never know what's going to happen. I've
been on 50 ft sailboats where we've taken solid green water all the
way back to the mast after surfing into the wave in front.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com



I thought they were going way to fast for conditions.



Lumpy without the frosting on top. Usually seas like thatare
acompanied with much more white capping. My opinion is that
going slower would have caused the boat to toss around much more.
I'm shure the captain adjusted his speed for the most comfortable
safe ride. It's a case of you had to be there to know how to
handle it.
--
x

On Tue, 31 Oct 2017 09:59:32 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Bill Wrote in message:
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 19:17:25 -0400, Alex wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/29/2017 12:35 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 23:18:12 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

This could also be titled "How Not to Run an Inlet in Heavy Weather."
Burying the bow into the back of the wave in front is not unusual but
this is a bit extreme and with the wrong boat.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BayTiEmneTm/

Some guys I know were going out of the inlet at St James City into
those standing waves in a 24' Carolina skiff. at night. They got
sideways to the sea and flipped it. Everyone got out OK but it was
scary. They were able to swim home, get another boat and go get the
skiff.



There's a video somewhere on YouTube of a 48 foot sportsfish capsizing
in the same manner leaving Jupiter Inlet. The boat's captain fell out
and drowned.

Here's a video of some guys on a 34' center console approaching
Jupiter inlet. It shows how it gets rougher as you get closer to the
inlet due to the shallow water. (and this wasn't a really *bad* day.
The guy sitting in front of the console gets soaked at about 2:18 into
the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8notH7LZnM

That takes some expert throttle control.


===

Best strategy in my experience is to run slower than the waves with
the bow trimmed well up. Once you crest a wave and drive down into
the next one in front, you never know what's going to happen. I've
been on 50 ft sailboats where we've taken solid green water all the
way back to the mast after surfing into the wave in front.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com



I thought they were going way to fast for conditions.



Lumpy without the frosting on top. Usually seas like thatare
acompanied with much more white capping. My opinion is that
going slower would have caused the boat to toss around much more.
I'm shure the captain adjusted his speed for the most comfortable
safe ride. It's a case of you had to be there to know how to
handle it.

===

The most comfortable ride is not necessarily the safest. Surfing
between two waves can be fun and fast right up until it isn't. Riding
the back of a wave can feel slow and awkward but it will generally
keep you out of trouble. The one thing you definitely don't want is
to suddenly crest over the top and down the other side. That's a
sure a recipe for stuffing the bow.

On Tue, 31 Oct 2017 09:05:10 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 31 Oct 2017 05:33:44 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/30/2017 10:15 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 19:17:25 -0400, Alex wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/29/2017 12:35 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 23:18:12 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

This could also be titled "How Not to Run an Inlet in Heavy Weather."
Burying the bow into the back of the wave in front is not unusual but
this is a bit extreme and with the wrong boat.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BayTiEmneTm/

Some guys I know were going out of the inlet at St James City into
those standing waves in a 24' Carolina skiff. at night. They got
sideways to the sea and flipped it. Everyone got out OK but it was
scary. They were able to swim home, get another boat and go get the
skiff.



There's a video somewhere on YouTube of a 48 foot sportsfish capsizing
in the same manner leaving Jupiter Inlet. The boat's captain fell out
and drowned.

Here's a video of some guys on a 34' center console approaching
Jupiter inlet. It shows how it gets rougher as you get closer to the
inlet due to the shallow water. (and this wasn't a really *bad* day.
The guy sitting in front of the console gets soaked at about 2:18 into
the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8notH7LZnM

That takes some expert throttle control.


===

Best strategy in my experience is to run slower than the waves with
the bow trimmed well up. Once you crest a wave and drive down into
the next one in front, you never know what's going to happen. I've
been on 50 ft sailboats where we've taken solid green water all the
way back to the mast after surfing into the wave in front.


I remember heading for an inlet to the ICW after an offshore run with
some very large, short period and fast moving swells following right on
the stern.

The channel was narrow, so there really was no choice but to head
directly towards the inlet. Every time the stern would lift as one of
the swells passed under the boat, I could feel the rudders lose bite and
the bow would plant it's self off in a totally different heading. It
was nerve wracking.


===

It certainly is. The loss of steering control is what leads to boats
being turned sideways to a breaking wave, with a subsequent broach or
capsize. Even larger boats are vulnerable if caught sideways in the
curl. On our first transit of Barnegat inlet in New Jersey there was
an 80 foot commercial fishing boat high and dry on a sand bar to port
after being broached out of the channel. If they'd been broached to
starboard it would have taken them into the breakwater rocks.

It has been calculated that a breaking wave slightly higher than half
your boat's beam can cause a capsize. For the average trailerable
boat with a beam of 8 1/2 feet that's a wave height of less than 5 ft,
a fairly common occurrence near ocean inlets.

It is probably not an option in passes with rock breakwaters but the
ones around here usually have a channel you can navigate right next to
the shore line so you can run a ways along the beach and turn seaward
past the ugly water. Big Carlos is that way but you do need a little
local knowledge and the sand still may have moved if you have not been
there recently.
I know right now there is a lot of sand that isn't where it used to
be.

Wrote in message:
On Tue, 31 Oct 2017 09:59:32 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Bill Wrote in message:
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 19:17:25 -0400, Alex wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/29/2017 12:35 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 23:18:12 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

This could also be titled "How Not to Run an Inlet in Heavy Weather."
Burying the bow into the back of the wave in front is not unusual but
this is a bit extreme and with the wrong boat.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BayTiEmneTm/

Some guys I know were going out of the inlet at St James City into
those standing waves in a 24' Carolina skiff. at night. They got
sideways to the sea and flipped it. Everyone got out OK but it was
scary. They were able to swim home, get another boat and go get the
skiff.



There's a video somewhere on YouTube of a 48 foot sportsfish capsizing
in the same manner leaving Jupiter Inlet. The boat's captain fell out
and drowned.

Here's a video of some guys on a 34' center console approaching
Jupiter inlet. It shows how it gets rougher as you get closer to the
inlet due to the shallow water. (and this wasn't a really *bad* day.
The guy sitting in front of the console gets soaked at about 2:18 into
the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8notH7LZnM

That takes some expert throttle control.


===

Best strategy in my experience is to run slower than the waves with
the bow trimmed well up. Once you crest a wave and drive down into
the next one in front, you never know what's going to happen. I've
been on 50 ft sailboats where we've taken solid green water all the
way back to the mast after surfing into the wave in front.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com



I thought they were going way to fast for conditions.



Lumpy without the frosting on top. Usually seas like thatare
acompanied with much more white capping. My opinion is that
going slower would have caused the boat to toss around much more.
I'm shure the captain adjusted his speed for the most comfortable
safe ride. It's a case of you had to be there to know how to
handle it.

===

The most comfortable ride is not necessarily the safest. Surfing
between two waves can be fun and fast right up until it isn't. Riding
the back of a wave can feel slow and awkward but it will generally
keep you out of trouble. The one thing you definitely don't want is
to suddenly crest over the top and down the other side. That's a
sure a recipe for stuffing the bow.


To me climbing the back of the wave is both the most comfortable
and safest. Not the most economical or easiest, throttle wise. I
would say we are in agreement.


--
x