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Consumer Reports Annual Reliability Survey
wrote:
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 19:12:44 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:54:14 -0400, wrote: The reality is that for most people "quality" is really pretty far down on the list of what they look into when buying a car. They look at price, styling, performance, maybe gas mileage and the doodads available. Then there is the culture. Ford people buy Fords, Toyota people buy Toyotas etc. === I'm not sure I agree with that, maybe true for people who lease or trade cars a lot. My preference is to buy a high quality car, maintain it well, and drive it until it is ready to drop - typically 15 years or so. Why? I'd rather spend my money on boats and boating. You are not the usual car buyer. The churn used to be 2 years, now I think it is up around 5 or 6 but still not 15 OTOH my Ford truck is 17 years old and the Honda is 20. I will probably think they are ready to drop long after you would have let them go ;-) I tell everyone, do not buy a car from me. I pretty much replace a car when it becomes either undependable or cost more to maintain then is sensible. Most have 150-60k miles. |
Consumer Reports Annual Reliability Survey
wrote:
On 27 Oct 2017 03:01:19 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote: wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:32:06 -0400, John H wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:12:37 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:17:46 -0400, John H wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:07:10 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:57:10 -0400, John H wrote: Here are the '10 Least Reliable Cars' from the latest CR reliability survey. The least of the least is at the bottom. Chevrolet Camaro Mercedes-Benz GLC Jaguar F-Pace GMC Acadia Fiat 500 Ford Focus Ford Fiesta Volvo XC90 Cadillac Escalade Tesla Model X All of these got 'one out of five' in the predicted reliability rating, based on the results of the owner surveys. Maybe folks are a bit more honest than we might think when it comes to rating their own cars. I wonder if some of this is just that a guy who paid $70-100k for a Cadillac or a Jag is a little less tolerant of a little misalignment of the door or a squeak behind the dash than a guy with a $20k Versa Could well be. But if there are more misalignments or squeaks in the Cadillac or Jag then the various Lexus' then the ratings are doing their job. The CR survey covers about 25 different 'topics' in the auto section, like sound system, navigation, engine electronics, brakes, transmission, etc. Once a topic is identified, further questions are asked if the topic was a problem area. I wouldn't think may folks would whine about their transmission if their problem was a squeak in the dash. The principle is still there tho. If I have a new Lincoln that is shifting a little rough, I am complaining. If it is a Yugo, I might just believe that is how they work. I do agree Lexus (a premium Toyota) is a well built car but it was the Japs who taught Detroit about quality. In the 70s and 80s we were talking about how well Hondas were built and the UAW was still making jokes about leaving coke bottles in the door. The only one that surprised me was the Benz. I wonder where the GLC they tested was made? Finland? Those may be left over commies from the Trebant factory ;-) The thing for you and Luddite to do is never look at Consumer Reports. The reality is that for most people "quality" is really pretty far down on the list of what they look into when buying a car. They look at price, styling, performance, maybe gas mileage and the doodads available. Then there is the culture. Ford people buy Fords, Toyota people buy Toyotas etc. How would you know that? Results of a poll? Just watching the cars turn over in people's driveways and talking to them. There is some logic to it since the culture of different cars is different. If you drive Fords, a new one is similar to your old one in placement and operation of the controls. If you get into a Honda, you will have a hard time turning on the wipers without getting the book out. That really becomes apparent when you start playing with the smart dash. We rent a lot of cars and using them is always an adventure. Very true. My wife still has issues with my Volt as to switches, etc. hell I do. |
Consumer Reports Annual Reliability Survey
On 10/26/17 11:51 PM, wrote:
On 27 Oct 2017 03:01:19 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote: wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:32:06 -0400, John H wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:12:37 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:17:46 -0400, John H wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:07:10 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:57:10 -0400, John H wrote: Here are the '10 Least Reliable Cars' from the latest CR reliability survey. The least of the least is at the bottom. Chevrolet Camaro Mercedes-Benz GLC Jaguar F-Pace GMC Acadia Fiat 500 Ford Focus Ford Fiesta Volvo XC90 Cadillac Escalade Tesla Model X All of these got 'one out of five' in the predicted reliability rating, based on the results of the owner surveys. Maybe folks are a bit more honest than we might think when it comes to rating their own cars. I wonder if some of this is just that a guy who paid $70-100k for a Cadillac or a Jag is a little less tolerant of a little misalignment of the door or a squeak behind the dash than a guy with a $20k Versa Could well be. But if there are more misalignments or squeaks in the Cadillac or Jag then the various Lexus' then the ratings are doing their job. The CR survey covers about 25 different 'topics' in the auto section, like sound system, navigation, engine electronics, brakes, transmission, etc. Once a topic is identified, further questions are asked if the topic was a problem area. I wouldn't think may folks would whine about their transmission if their problem was a squeak in the dash. The principle is still there tho. If I have a new Lincoln that is shifting a little rough, I am complaining. If it is a Yugo, I might just believe that is how they work. I do agree Lexus (a premium Toyota) is a well built car but it was the Japs who taught Detroit about quality. In the 70s and 80s we were talking about how well Hondas were built and the UAW was still making jokes about leaving coke bottles in the door. The only one that surprised me was the Benz. I wonder where the GLC they tested was made? Finland? Those may be left over commies from the Trebant factory ;-) The thing for you and Luddite to do is never look at Consumer Reports. The reality is that for most people "quality" is really pretty far down on the list of what they look into when buying a car. They look at price, styling, performance, maybe gas mileage and the doodads available. Then there is the culture. Ford people buy Fords, Toyota people buy Toyotas etc. How would you know that? Results of a poll? Just watching the cars turn over in people's driveways and talking to them. Ahh, a poll. But you don't believe in polls. |
Consumer Reports Annual Reliability Survey
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Consumer Reports Annual Reliability Survey
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:54:14 -0400, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:32:06 -0400, John H wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:12:37 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:17:46 -0400, John H wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:07:10 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:57:10 -0400, John H wrote: Here are the '10 Least Reliable Cars' from the latest CR reliability survey. The least of the least is at the bottom. Chevrolet Camaro Mercedes-Benz GLC Jaguar F-Pace GMC Acadia Fiat 500 Ford Focus Ford Fiesta Volvo XC90 Cadillac Escalade Tesla Model X All of these got 'one out of five' in the predicted reliability rating, based on the results of the owner surveys. Maybe folks are a bit more honest than we might think when it comes to rating their own cars. I wonder if some of this is just that a guy who paid $70-100k for a Cadillac or a Jag is a little less tolerant of a little misalignment of the door or a squeak behind the dash than a guy with a $20k Versa Could well be. But if there are more misalignments or squeaks in the Cadillac or Jag then the various Lexus' then the ratings are doing their job. The CR survey covers about 25 different 'topics' in the auto section, like sound system, navigation, engine electronics, brakes, transmission, etc. Once a topic is identified, further questions are asked if the topic was a problem area. I wouldn't think may folks would whine about their transmission if their problem was a squeak in the dash. The principle is still there tho. If I have a new Lincoln that is shifting a little rough, I am complaining. If it is a Yugo, I might just believe that is how they work. I do agree Lexus (a premium Toyota) is a well built car but it was the Japs who taught Detroit about quality. In the 70s and 80s we were talking about how well Hondas were built and the UAW was still making jokes about leaving coke bottles in the door. The only one that surprised me was the Benz. I wonder where the GLC they tested was made? Finland? Those may be left over commies from the Trebant factory ;-) The thing for you and Luddite to do is never look at Consumer Reports. The reality is that for most people "quality" is really pretty far down on the list of what they look into when buying a car. They look at price, styling, performance, maybe gas mileage and the doodads available. Then there is the culture. Ford people buy Fords, Toyota people buy Toyotas etc. That would make for an interesting survey. For me, quality and performance are at the top. |
Consumer Reports Annual Reliability Survey
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 18:13:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 10/26/2017 4:14 PM, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:20:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/26/2017 2:12 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/26/17 2:07 PM, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:57:10 -0400, John H wrote: Here are the '10 Least Reliable Cars' from the latest CR reliability survey. The least of the least is at the bottom. Chevrolet Camaro Mercedes-Benz GLC Jaguar F-Pace GMC Acadia Fiat 500 Ford Focus Ford Fiesta Volvo XC90 Cadillac Escalade Tesla Model X All of these got 'one out of five' in the predicted reliability rating, based on the results of the owner surveys. Maybe folks are a bit more honest than we might think when it comes to rating their own cars. I wonder if some of this is just that a guy who paid $70-100k for a Cadillac or a Jag is a little less tolerant of a little misalignment of the door or a squeak behind the dash than a guy with a $20k Versa Why should the buyer of a new inexpensive car be tolerant of a poorly assembled vehicle? Surprised the list of the least reliable cars doesn't include Jeep vehicles. Me too. Based on what I've read the current crop of Jeeps have a terrible reputation for reliability problems and being outdated in design in general. My daughter can't wait until her lease is up on a Jeep Liberty she has. I've driven it. It's terrible. Transmission shudders at slow speeds but she was told it's "normal". My brother also bought a Jeep Compass a couple of months ago, replacing a 12 year old, rotted out Dodge Ram pickup. His shutters also at slow speeds, so perhaps it *is* normal. He's already shopping for a replacement for it Not much of a sampling but consistent with many of the on-line reviews. I had problems with my 72 AMC Jeep too but I beat the **** out of it. Followup: I received a call from my daughter an hour ago asking if I could give her a ride to her car dealership. She had dropped her Jeep off for an inspection sticker this morning. She also had a couple of lights out ... parking light and a running light and they all have to work to pass inspection. She didn't hear from the dealership all day and finally called them to see if it was ready. She was transferred to the service manager who told her, "There's a problem. The problem with the lights is not the bulbs or LEDs. There's a problem in the wiring of the vehicle and we haven't been able to trace it so far." So, they gave her a loaner .. a new Dodge Charger. About two months ago her Jeep suddenly started by itself in her driveway at about 1 am. The lights turned on and the horn started beeping. My son-in-law heard it, went out and somehow shut it off. Probably related to the wiring problem. I would advise anyone not to buy a Jeep. Amen. The latest CR review of mid-size SUVs puts the Jeep Wrangler at the bottom with a score of 29. The high score in this category is the Toyota Highlander with an 85. The Dodge Journey and Jeep Cherokee are also in the bottom four, with scores of 41 and 59 respectively. The Ford Explorer tied with the Jeep Cherokee. |
Consumer Reports Annual Reliability Survey
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 18:15:09 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 10/26/2017 4:32 PM, John H wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:12:37 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:17:46 -0400, John H wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:07:10 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:57:10 -0400, John H wrote: Here are the '10 Least Reliable Cars' from the latest CR reliability survey. The least of the least is at the bottom. Chevrolet Camaro Mercedes-Benz GLC Jaguar F-Pace GMC Acadia Fiat 500 Ford Focus Ford Fiesta Volvo XC90 Cadillac Escalade Tesla Model X All of these got 'one out of five' in the predicted reliability rating, based on the results of the owner surveys. Maybe folks are a bit more honest than we might think when it comes to rating their own cars. I wonder if some of this is just that a guy who paid $70-100k for a Cadillac or a Jag is a little less tolerant of a little misalignment of the door or a squeak behind the dash than a guy with a $20k Versa Could well be. But if there are more misalignments or squeaks in the Cadillac or Jag then the various Lexus' then the ratings are doing their job. The CR survey covers about 25 different 'topics' in the auto section, like sound system, navigation, engine electronics, brakes, transmission, etc. Once a topic is identified, further questions are asked if the topic was a problem area. I wouldn't think may folks would whine about their transmission if their problem was a squeak in the dash. The principle is still there tho. If I have a new Lincoln that is shifting a little rough, I am complaining. If it is a Yugo, I might just believe that is how they work. I do agree Lexus (a premium Toyota) is a well built car but it was the Japs who taught Detroit about quality. In the 70s and 80s we were talking about how well Hondas were built and the UAW was still making jokes about leaving coke bottles in the door. The only one that surprised me was the Benz. I wonder where the GLC they tested was made? Finland? Those may be left over commies from the Trebant factory ;-) The thing for you and Luddite to do is never look at Consumer Reports. I can't remember the last time I read Consumer Reports. Do they still publish a paper version? Once in a while I see something on the Internet but it wants you to subscribe to view the entire report. They publish both. |
Consumer Reports Annual Reliability Survey
On 10/27/2017 12:37 AM, Bill wrote:
wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 19:12:44 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:54:14 -0400, wrote: The reality is that for most people "quality" is really pretty far down on the list of what they look into when buying a car. They look at price, styling, performance, maybe gas mileage and the doodads available. Then there is the culture. Ford people buy Fords, Toyota people buy Toyotas etc. === I'm not sure I agree with that, maybe true for people who lease or trade cars a lot. My preference is to buy a high quality car, maintain it well, and drive it until it is ready to drop - typically 15 years or so. Why? I'd rather spend my money on boats and boating. You are not the usual car buyer. The churn used to be 2 years, now I think it is up around 5 or 6 but still not 15 OTOH my Ford truck is 17 years old and the Honda is 20. I will probably think they are ready to drop long after you would have let them go ;-) I tell everyone, do not buy a car from me. I pretty much replace a car when it becomes either undependable or cost more to maintain then is sensible. Most have 150-60k miles. I admit that I get the itch for a new car probably more often than most. I just get bored driving the same one for too long. Longest I've ever owned a vehicle is just short of 9 years and that was the F-250. However, I also had a series of cars that I had at the same time, so I wasn't driving the truck everyday. Also, the truck had a purpose other than just transportation. I plowed and trailered with it as well. |
Consumer Reports Annual Reliability Survey
On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 00:30:29 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/26/2017 4:32 PM, John H wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:12:37 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:17:46 -0400, John H wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:07:10 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:57:10 -0400, John H wrote: Here are the '10 Least Reliable Cars' from the latest CR reliability survey. The least of the least is at the bottom. Chevrolet Camaro Mercedes-Benz GLC Jaguar F-Pace GMC Acadia Fiat 500 Ford Focus Ford Fiesta Volvo XC90 Cadillac Escalade Tesla Model X All of these got 'one out of five' in the predicted reliability rating, based on the results of the owner surveys. Maybe folks are a bit more honest than we might think when it comes to rating their own cars. I wonder if some of this is just that a guy who paid $70-100k for a Cadillac or a Jag is a little less tolerant of a little misalignment of the door or a squeak behind the dash than a guy with a $20k Versa Could well be. But if there are more misalignments or squeaks in the Cadillac or Jag then the various Lexus' then the ratings are doing their job. The CR survey covers about 25 different 'topics' in the auto section, like sound system, navigation, engine electronics, brakes, transmission, etc. Once a topic is identified, further questions are asked if the topic was a problem area. I wouldn't think may folks would whine about their transmission if their problem was a squeak in the dash. The principle is still there tho. If I have a new Lincoln that is shifting a little rough, I am complaining. If it is a Yugo, I might just believe that is how they work. I do agree Lexus (a premium Toyota) is a well built car but it was the Japs who taught Detroit about quality. In the 70s and 80s we were talking about how well Hondas were built and the UAW was still making jokes about leaving coke bottles in the door. The only one that surprised me was the Benz. I wonder where the GLC they tested was made? Finland? Those may be left over commies from the Trebant factory ;-) The thing for you and Luddite to do is never look at Consumer Reports. I can't remember the last time I read Consumer Reports. Do they still publish a paper version? Once in a while I see something on the Internet but it wants you to subscribe to view the entire report. I went to the library a couple this ago to research stoves. Used their CR paper copies. Not a lot of info from my perusal. I just looked up stove ratings online. Wow. There is a lot of info for each model (118) they tested. Much more info online than they could possible put in their magazine. |
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