On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 20:31:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/3/2017 8:13 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 17:09:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/3/2017 12:14 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 09:34:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


I agree but if a universal background check system could stop even *one*
of these events from happening, it would be worth it. A background
check is really not an inconvenience.

It is certainly not a problem for people at a dealer in the city but a
rancher in Montana might disagree if he just wants to give his son an
old gun.


I could accept and understand exceptions for in-family "gifts".

How about selling it to your neighbor?



Nope.

I don't know how it works in other states but here in MA a background
check is done when you apply for a permit. Once issued, it is good for
six years after which you apply for a renewal and a check is done again.

During the time you hold the permit a quick state check (via phone or
computer) is done by the FFL dealer whenever you purchase a firearm to
ensure the permit is still in good standing and has not been revoked for
any reason. Private sales may be made to other MA residents by going
on-line, providing both his and your permit numbers, the firearm type
and serial number and current addresses. If no issues, you are done and
the sale is legal.


You are assuming a rural state really wants to spend money maintaining
a system like that for such a small number of transactions and such a
low crime rate, thus a low rate of return on the investment.
In the places that drive the national crime rate, guns are still
illegally trafficked with no problem.

If we are going to pass a law, why not just make murder illegal?

On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 20:46:21 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/3/2017 8:31 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 17:12:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/3/2017 3:12 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 15:00:33 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 12:32:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 10:08:35 -0400, John H
wrote:

The news has already said that he purchased many from a local gun shop. That included a background check.

Personally, I couldn't care less if every gun transaction required a background check. I've yet to
see where the background checks would have prevented any of these mass shootings, and I disagree
with the 'saving even one life would make anything worth it' approach to regulation enactment. Look
how many lives would be saved if the minimum driving license age was 21.

Hey stop it.
You are not allowed to talk about cars when we are talking about
unnecessary deaths!
They are just "the rub of the green".
How many deaths and injuries would be prevented if cell phones were
totally disabled in a moving car or simply disabling those attention
grabbing dash board toys?
They won't even test drivers. (the ability to parallel park ain't it)
These are all off limits because it would be too inconvenient.

Maryland has strict cell phone/driving laws. Yet there is not a time when driving in Maryland I
don't see folks talking or texting on their cell phones. It shows that a law makes no difference if
it's not enforced.


Most of the time that these things are tested, demonstrates that
talking on a hands free phone is as distracting as using a hand held.
It is not your hands that are distracted, it is your mind.
I am really surprised that these "smart" dash boards are legal.
If you are trying to set the options on the in car computer, you might
as well be driving from the trunk. Even fiddling with a radio that you
have to see to set is plenty distracting. That is why they invented
the push button radio and the "wonder bar" in the first place.


Does your "wonder bar" still work? :-)


Seek still works on my radio if that is what you mean. It has been a
feature on most radios since they stopped having tuning knobs. (solid
state tuner)



Old car radios had some odd components that kids would find funny
now-a-days. I still remember vacuum tube car radios that had
"vibrators" in them. The vibrator converted the 6vdc and later 12vdc
battery power to chopped DC which could then be treated as AC and
transformed up and rectified to the operating voltages required for the
tubes. Killed batteries fast though if you weren't running the engine.


Yup I remember those. We converted a stock 53 chevy radio to
transistor and made it look stock if you did not look too closely. I
went from about 15 amps to more like 1 amp. I was still beat up for
desecrating a stock part like that.
I also converted a lot of old mechanical GM clocks to an MA1003 chip
(green fluorescent display). They didn't really look stock but they
told good time. The GM unit was a random number generator.

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/3/2017 8:31 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 17:12:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/3/2017 3:12 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 15:00:33 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 12:32:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 10:08:35 -0400, John H
wrote:

The news has already said that he purchased many from a local gun
shop. That included a background check.

Personally, I couldn't care less if every gun transaction required
a background check. I've yet to
see where the background checks would have prevented any of these
mass shootings, and I disagree
with the 'saving even one life would make anything worth it'
approach to regulation enactment. Look
how many lives would be saved if the minimum driving license age was 21.

Hey stop it.
You are not allowed to talk about cars when we are talking about
unnecessary deaths!
They are just "the rub of the green".
How many deaths and injuries would be prevented if cell phones were
totally disabled in a moving car or simply disabling those attention
grabbing dash board toys?
They won't even test drivers. (the ability to parallel park ain't it)
These are all off limits because it would be too inconvenient.

Maryland has strict cell phone/driving laws. Yet there is not a time
when driving in Maryland I
don't see folks talking or texting on their cell phones. It shows
that a law makes no difference if
it's not enforced.


Most of the time that these things are tested, demonstrates that
talking on a hands free phone is as distracting as using a hand held.
It is not your hands that are distracted, it is your mind.
I am really surprised that these "smart" dash boards are legal.
If you are trying to set the options on the in car computer, you might
as well be driving from the trunk. Even fiddling with a radio that you
have to see to set is plenty distracting. That is why they invented
the push button radio and the "wonder bar" in the first place.


Does your "wonder bar" still work? :-)


Seek still works on my radio if that is what you mean. It has been a
feature on most radios since they stopped having tuning knobs. (solid
state tuner)



Old car radios had some odd components that kids would find funny
now-a-days. I still remember vacuum tube car radios that had
"vibrators" in them. The vibrator converted the 6vdc and later 12vdc
battery power to chopped DC which could then be treated as AC and
transformed up and rectified to the operating voltages required for the
tubes. Killed batteries fast though if you weren't running the engine.




Seemed to be the only tube that went bad in those old radios.

On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 21:42:36 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 20:31:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/3/2017 8:13 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 17:09:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/3/2017 12:14 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 09:34:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


I agree but if a universal background check system could stop even *one*
of these events from happening, it would be worth it. A background
check is really not an inconvenience.

It is certainly not a problem for people at a dealer in the city but a
rancher in Montana might disagree if he just wants to give his son an
old gun.


I could accept and understand exceptions for in-family "gifts".

How about selling it to your neighbor?



Nope.

I don't know how it works in other states but here in MA a background
check is done when you apply for a permit. Once issued, it is good for
six years after which you apply for a renewal and a check is done again.

During the time you hold the permit a quick state check (via phone or
computer) is done by the FFL dealer whenever you purchase a firearm to
ensure the permit is still in good standing and has not been revoked for
any reason. Private sales may be made to other MA residents by going
on-line, providing both his and your permit numbers, the firearm type
and serial number and current addresses. If no issues, you are done and
the sale is legal.


You are assuming a rural state really wants to spend money maintaining
a system like that for such a small number of transactions and such a
low crime rate, thus a low rate of return on the investment.
In the places that drive the national crime rate, guns are still
illegally trafficked with no problem.

If we are going to pass a law, why not just make murder illegal?

That is the best gun-control line I've heard yet!

On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 20:31:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 10/3/2017 8:13 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 17:09:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/3/2017 12:14 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 09:34:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


I agree but if a universal background check system could stop even *one*
of these events from happening, it would be worth it. A background
check is really not an inconvenience.

It is certainly not a problem for people at a dealer in the city but a
rancher in Montana might disagree if he just wants to give his son an
old gun.


I could accept and understand exceptions for in-family "gifts".

How about selling it to your neighbor?



Nope.

I don't know how it works in other states but here in MA a background
check is done when you apply for a permit. Once issued, it is good for
six years after which you apply for a renewal and a check is done again.

During the time you hold the permit a quick state check (via phone or
computer) is done by the FFL dealer whenever you purchase a firearm to
ensure the permit is still in good standing and has not been revoked for
any reason. Private sales may be made to other MA residents by going
on-line, providing both his and your permit numbers, the firearm type
and serial number and current addresses. If no issues, you are done and
the sale is legal.


What kind of permit are you speaking of. Can individuals make private sales without involving an FFL
holder, simply be going online and inputting the numbers?

On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 17:53:42 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 10/3/2017 5:43 PM, Bill wrote:
Tim wrote:
2:13
On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 15:00:33 -0400, John H
- show quoted text -
Most of the time that these things are tested, demonstrates that
talking on a hands free phone is as distracting as using a hand held.
It is not your hands that are distracted, it is your mind.
I am really surprised that these "smart" dash boards are legal.
If you are trying to set the options on the in car computer, you might
as well be driving from the trunk. Even fiddling with a radio that you
have to see to set is plenty distracting. That is why they invented
the push button radio and the "wonder bar" in the first place.
.....
My caddys has wonder bar radios. Also my buicks had Speed setters where
you could see the needle where you wanted and I'd the speedo needle hit
it. The thing would buzzzzz. Better to use the cruise control.

My wife's Honda CRV has built in GPS. You have to be in park to set it...


Both my wife's Toyota GPS and my TomTom in my Volt take voice commands
while moving. To manually set the Toyota you have to be stopped.



My truck (Canyon) also takes voice commands for the GPS. Haven't tried
it because so far I haven't gone anywhere that I don't know. I use the
voice commands for the phone all the time though. If I get a text
message, a female voice reads it to me, so I don't have to take my eyes
off the road.


Oh, so she's wearing clothes, eh?

On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 21:13:35 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 10/3/17 7:05 PM, justan wrote:
John H Wrote in message:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 15:12:51 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 15:00:33 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 12:32:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 10:08:35 -0400, John H
wrote:

The news has already said that he purchased many from a local gun shop. That included a background check.

Personally, I couldn't care less if every gun transaction required a background check. I've yet to
see where the background checks would have prevented any of these mass shootings, and I disagree
with the 'saving even one life would make anything worth it' approach to regulation enactment. Look
how many lives would be saved if the minimum driving license age was 21.

Hey stop it.
You are not allowed to talk about cars when we are talking about
unnecessary deaths!
They are just "the rub of the green".
How many deaths and injuries would be prevented if cell phones were
totally disabled in a moving car or simply disabling those attention
grabbing dash board toys?
They won't even test drivers. (the ability to parallel park ain't it)
These are all off limits because it would be too inconvenient.

Maryland has strict cell phone/driving laws. Yet there is not a time when driving in Maryland I
don't see folks talking or texting on their cell phones. It shows that a law makes no difference if
it's not enforced.

Most of the time that these things are tested, demonstrates that
talking on a hands free phone is as distracting as using a hand held.
It is not your hands that are distracted, it is your mind.
I am really surprised that these "smart" dash boards are legal.
If you are trying to set the options on the in car computer, you might
as well be driving from the trunk. Even fiddling with a radio that you
have to see to set is plenty distracting. That is why they invented
the push button radio and the "wonder bar" in the first place.

Talking is one thing. Texting is another. I see people staring at their cell phone while their thumb
is going crazy on it. They do stop for a second when I hold the horn down while right next to them.
But then they just give me the finger and continue.


With all the gun totin going on up there, you're lucky you don't
get shot. Remember, Harry doesn't live far from you. You don't
want to antagonise him. Keep your eyes peeled for his little blue
truck.


Nah. I only shoot inanimate, dead objects. You and Herring may be brain
dead, but that doesn't count.


That would be comforting if we didn't know you are a compulsive liar.

Wednesday morning humor. Thanks!

On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 19:33:50 -0400, Alex wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 10:48:32 -0700 (PDT), Its Me
wrote:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 12:03:20 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 08:34:20 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


I am definitely in favor of mandatory, universal background checks for
firearm purchases. I know others disagree but I think it's only
commonsense. Like most complex issues in a diversified society, some
level of compromise is required to advance the welfare and safety of the
whole.

That is some nice feel good legislation but most of the mass shooters
passed background checks and hard core criminals have other avenues
for getting the guns they want.
Although this guy would have had no problem filling out a Form 4 and
getting the FBI/BATF to sell him a stamp, it appears his machine guns
were illegally obtained/modified.
I heard some reports this morning saying he had a couple of "bump fire" stocks on AR's. At that point it's still a semi-auto with a stock that makes your finger hit the trigger much faster than you could do it manually.
I am really waiting for the actual facts but the fire did sound more
regular than I would expect from a bump fire stock. To be honest I
have never actually fired a gun like that. You can waste ammo faster
by just throwing it in the trash.

Could have been a double tap trigger.

Bump stock.

On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 10:15:18 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 20:31:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 10/3/2017 8:13 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 17:09:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/3/2017 12:14 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 09:34:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


I agree but if a universal background check system could stop even *one*
of these events from happening, it would be worth it. A background
check is really not an inconvenience.

It is certainly not a problem for people at a dealer in the city but a
rancher in Montana might disagree if he just wants to give his son an
old gun.


I could accept and understand exceptions for in-family "gifts".

How about selling it to your neighbor?



Nope.

I don't know how it works in other states but here in MA a background
check is done when you apply for a permit. Once issued, it is good for
six years after which you apply for a renewal and a check is done again.

During the time you hold the permit a quick state check (via phone or
computer) is done by the FFL dealer whenever you purchase a firearm to
ensure the permit is still in good standing and has not been revoked for
any reason. Private sales may be made to other MA residents by going
on-line, providing both his and your permit numbers, the firearm type
and serial number and current addresses. If no issues, you are done and
the sale is legal.


What kind of permit are you speaking of. Can individuals make private sales without involving an FFL
holder, simply be going online and inputting the numbers?

That seems to be the loophole in the system. If you wanted to hide the
real transfer, you would just enter a few phony transactions.

On 10/4/2017 10:15 AM, John H wrote:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 20:31:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 10/3/2017 8:13 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 17:09:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/3/2017 12:14 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 09:34:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


I agree but if a universal background check system could stop even *one*
of these events from happening, it would be worth it. A background
check is really not an inconvenience.

It is certainly not a problem for people at a dealer in the city but a
rancher in Montana might disagree if he just wants to give his son an
old gun.


I could accept and understand exceptions for in-family "gifts".

How about selling it to your neighbor?



Nope.

I don't know how it works in other states but here in MA a background
check is done when you apply for a permit. Once issued, it is good for
six years after which you apply for a renewal and a check is done again.

During the time you hold the permit a quick state check (via phone or
computer) is done by the FFL dealer whenever you purchase a firearm to
ensure the permit is still in good standing and has not been revoked for
any reason. Private sales may be made to other MA residents by going
on-line, providing both his and your permit numbers, the firearm type
and serial number and current addresses. If no issues, you are done and
the sale is legal.


What kind of permit are you speaking of. Can individuals make private sales without involving an FFL
holder, simply be going online and inputting the numbers?



In MA it's called a Class "A" Concealed Carry Permit. The Class A
permit allows you to own just about anything except a machine gun. As
I've mentioned before, it allows me to own high capacity mags as well.
Only problem is ... it's illegal buy one, transport one into the state
or have it shipped. But, I can own one. :-)

MA also had a Class "B" permit at the time I got my Class "A". It
didn't allow concealed carry and was basically for home defense and
transport to a shooting range only.

Then, there is a long gun permit for rifles and shotguns. These permits
are "shall issue" permits rather than "may issue" for the Class A and B
but subject also to a background check.

They even have permits for mace and pepper spray.

Yes, individuals can make private sales but only to another resident of
MA. A FFL is not required. The buyer must have a current permit (number
must be provided) for the type of firearm to be sold and the serial
number, make and model is required. Seller's info is also required.
You can fill out the form online and submit it. If no problem, a
receipt is issued.

I haven't sold (or purchased) a firearm in several years, so the private
sale rules may have changed or even been done away with. I have a
couple of handguns I'll probably never use again but I think I'll just
take them back to the FFL dealer and see what he'll give me for them.