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Wish I didn't ....
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 16:12:49 -0400, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 13:22:03 -0400, John H wrote: We've not used ours since the rig was new. Just plan on dumping every four days or so. If there is not sewer and we're going to be there a while we carry a 'blue boy' along. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd_qt_ijuSs Mine never gets that bad. Defecation is not permitted in our rig. |
Wish I didn't ....
On 8/15/2017 1:16 PM, John H wrote:
On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 08:51:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/10/2017 1:09 AM, wrote: On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:59:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/9/2017 2:15 PM, wrote: On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 13:50:30 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: I think the problem is on the PC board in the control unit. It's supposed to turn on, light up blue and display all the membrane switch areas and labels. It doesn't. Has 12 volts but doesn't turn on, That is the problem with most new things. Everything is on a single board that may only cost a few bucks to produce in some 3d world country but sells for hundreds of dollars. They seldom/never provide any documentation about what is on that board. With a little knowledge of what usually goes wrong, you might get lucky and find a bad part you can replace on the board but they are bad about using parts with no helpful markings on them. I would start with the most rudimentary thing that is not working and trace back to the 12v ... like those back lights. It may just be a diode or regulator on the front end. (the actual controls may be 5v) Are there any burned traces? Parts that look like they got hot? I usually try to draw out what I see going along the traces and hope it is not a multilayered board. I got into this trying to fix gate controller boards. Fixed a few, tossed a bunch. The chip that seemed to be the failing part on most was not documented and the manufacturer was no help. So far I have only seen one side of the control panel board. I plan to remove it completely and inspect it. There are a bunch of tiny diodes on it that are about the only things I can check (forward and reverse bias) if I scrape away some of the conformal coating but nothing else is testable that I can see so far. I think the problem *is* on the PC board but a replacement is not available. I have not been riveted to this thread but Justan may be on to something. How complicated is the task this board accomplishes and can it be done with a few relays? Those black automotive "ice cube" relays are pretty robust (30a) and available just about anywhere. Sometime old school is the way to go. It's doable but I really don't want to get involved with tracing a whole bunch of unmarked wires with no diagrams to give you a clue as to where they go and what they control. Plus, it probably won't fix the level indicators for the fresh, grey and black water tanks. I've learned to be a little careful about what to sign up for on other people's equipment. Back in my Navy days I used to repair or do convergence and gun drive adjustments old CRT type TV sets, fixed VCR's, radios, etc. Once you touch it, you become "on call" for any future problems or issues. I was telling a friend about this issue. He asked if your friend had contacted the Recreation Vehicle Industry Association. When I mentioned the rig was a 2013 and the company no longer made the part, his immediate suggestion was to call RVIA and give them the story. He's been an RV'er a long time. RVIA - 703-620-6003 I'll mention it to him but I doubt anyone can do much. Keystone screwed up royally with this fancy wireless system and won't support it at all anymore. Even the company who made it for them doesn't support it. Only made it for not quite two years before dumping it due to all the problems. I spent the day today trying one last time to find the problem with his rig. Took the control panel completely apart, down to the three layers of PC boards. Found a large reverse polarity protection power diode but it checked good. The rest of the circuitry consisted of chips that I have no way of testing. Was able to turn various systems on by jumping 12 volts to different unmarked wires, so the potential to rewire the whole thing using a panel with real switches instead of the silly membrane pads that send a signal to the main CPU in the front of the fiver. I can't believe Keystone went to all this trouble to get fancy with a panel that has a very simple job to do. Anyway, am reluctantly going to check into a replacement panel with real switches and rewire the thing. I really don't want to but I feel I've invested enough of my time into this now that I want to see success. Besides, the guy I am helping is really a decent **** but knows absolutely nothing about wires, switches or electricity. |
Wish I didn't ....
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 16:40:27 -0400, John H
wrote: Mine never gets that bad. Defecation is not permitted in our rig. Hand them an entrenching tool and point them to the woods? ;-) |
Wish I didn't ....
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:20:31 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 8/15/2017 1:16 PM, John H wrote: On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 08:51:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/10/2017 1:09 AM, wrote: On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:59:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/9/2017 2:15 PM, wrote: On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 13:50:30 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: I think the problem is on the PC board in the control unit. It's supposed to turn on, light up blue and display all the membrane switch areas and labels. It doesn't. Has 12 volts but doesn't turn on, That is the problem with most new things. Everything is on a single board that may only cost a few bucks to produce in some 3d world country but sells for hundreds of dollars. They seldom/never provide any documentation about what is on that board. With a little knowledge of what usually goes wrong, you might get lucky and find a bad part you can replace on the board but they are bad about using parts with no helpful markings on them. I would start with the most rudimentary thing that is not working and trace back to the 12v ... like those back lights. It may just be a diode or regulator on the front end. (the actual controls may be 5v) Are there any burned traces? Parts that look like they got hot? I usually try to draw out what I see going along the traces and hope it is not a multilayered board. I got into this trying to fix gate controller boards. Fixed a few, tossed a bunch. The chip that seemed to be the failing part on most was not documented and the manufacturer was no help. So far I have only seen one side of the control panel board. I plan to remove it completely and inspect it. There are a bunch of tiny diodes on it that are about the only things I can check (forward and reverse bias) if I scrape away some of the conformal coating but nothing else is testable that I can see so far. I think the problem *is* on the PC board but a replacement is not available. I have not been riveted to this thread but Justan may be on to something. How complicated is the task this board accomplishes and can it be done with a few relays? Those black automotive "ice cube" relays are pretty robust (30a) and available just about anywhere. Sometime old school is the way to go. It's doable but I really don't want to get involved with tracing a whole bunch of unmarked wires with no diagrams to give you a clue as to where they go and what they control. Plus, it probably won't fix the level indicators for the fresh, grey and black water tanks. I've learned to be a little careful about what to sign up for on other people's equipment. Back in my Navy days I used to repair or do convergence and gun drive adjustments old CRT type TV sets, fixed VCR's, radios, etc. Once you touch it, you become "on call" for any future problems or issues. I was telling a friend about this issue. He asked if your friend had contacted the Recreation Vehicle Industry Association. When I mentioned the rig was a 2013 and the company no longer made the part, his immediate suggestion was to call RVIA and give them the story. He's been an RV'er a long time. RVIA - 703-620-6003 I'll mention it to him but I doubt anyone can do much. Keystone screwed up royally with this fancy wireless system and won't support it at all anymore. Even the company who made it for them doesn't support it. Only made it for not quite two years before dumping it due to all the problems. I spent the day today trying one last time to find the problem with his rig. Took the control panel completely apart, down to the three layers of PC boards. Found a large reverse polarity protection power diode but it checked good. The rest of the circuitry consisted of chips that I have no way of testing. Was able to turn various systems on by jumping 12 volts to different unmarked wires, so the potential to rewire the whole thing using a panel with real switches instead of the silly membrane pads that send a signal to the main CPU in the front of the fiver. I can't believe Keystone went to all this trouble to get fancy with a panel that has a very simple job to do. Anyway, am reluctantly going to check into a replacement panel with real switches and rewire the thing. I really don't want to but I feel I've invested enough of my time into this now that I want to see success. Besides, the guy I am helping is really a decent **** but knows absolutely nothing about wires, switches or electricity. Larry, my buddy, thought that there was a requirement somewhere for RV manufacturers to keep parts available for some amount of time after the rig was made. Did he try calling Bontrager's? |
Wish I didn't ....
On 8/15/2017 7:28 PM, John H wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:20:31 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/15/2017 1:16 PM, John H wrote: On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 08:51:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/10/2017 1:09 AM, wrote: On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:59:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/9/2017 2:15 PM, wrote: On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 13:50:30 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: I think the problem is on the PC board in the control unit. It's supposed to turn on, light up blue and display all the membrane switch areas and labels. It doesn't. Has 12 volts but doesn't turn on, That is the problem with most new things. Everything is on a single board that may only cost a few bucks to produce in some 3d world country but sells for hundreds of dollars. They seldom/never provide any documentation about what is on that board. With a little knowledge of what usually goes wrong, you might get lucky and find a bad part you can replace on the board but they are bad about using parts with no helpful markings on them. I would start with the most rudimentary thing that is not working and trace back to the 12v ... like those back lights. It may just be a diode or regulator on the front end. (the actual controls may be 5v) Are there any burned traces? Parts that look like they got hot? I usually try to draw out what I see going along the traces and hope it is not a multilayered board. I got into this trying to fix gate controller boards. Fixed a few, tossed a bunch. The chip that seemed to be the failing part on most was not documented and the manufacturer was no help. So far I have only seen one side of the control panel board. I plan to remove it completely and inspect it. There are a bunch of tiny diodes on it that are about the only things I can check (forward and reverse bias) if I scrape away some of the conformal coating but nothing else is testable that I can see so far. I think the problem *is* on the PC board but a replacement is not available. I have not been riveted to this thread but Justan may be on to something. How complicated is the task this board accomplishes and can it be done with a few relays? Those black automotive "ice cube" relays are pretty robust (30a) and available just about anywhere. Sometime old school is the way to go. It's doable but I really don't want to get involved with tracing a whole bunch of unmarked wires with no diagrams to give you a clue as to where they go and what they control. Plus, it probably won't fix the level indicators for the fresh, grey and black water tanks. I've learned to be a little careful about what to sign up for on other people's equipment. Back in my Navy days I used to repair or do convergence and gun drive adjustments old CRT type TV sets, fixed VCR's, radios, etc. Once you touch it, you become "on call" for any future problems or issues. I was telling a friend about this issue. He asked if your friend had contacted the Recreation Vehicle Industry Association. When I mentioned the rig was a 2013 and the company no longer made the part, his immediate suggestion was to call RVIA and give them the story. He's been an RV'er a long time. RVIA - 703-620-6003 I'll mention it to him but I doubt anyone can do much. Keystone screwed up royally with this fancy wireless system and won't support it at all anymore. Even the company who made it for them doesn't support it. Only made it for not quite two years before dumping it due to all the problems. I spent the day today trying one last time to find the problem with his rig. Took the control panel completely apart, down to the three layers of PC boards. Found a large reverse polarity protection power diode but it checked good. The rest of the circuitry consisted of chips that I have no way of testing. Was able to turn various systems on by jumping 12 volts to different unmarked wires, so the potential to rewire the whole thing using a panel with real switches instead of the silly membrane pads that send a signal to the main CPU in the front of the fiver. I can't believe Keystone went to all this trouble to get fancy with a panel that has a very simple job to do. Anyway, am reluctantly going to check into a replacement panel with real switches and rewire the thing. I really don't want to but I feel I've invested enough of my time into this now that I want to see success. Besides, the guy I am helping is really a decent **** but knows absolutely nothing about wires, switches or electricity. Larry, my buddy, thought that there was a requirement somewhere for RV manufacturers to keep parts available for some amount of time after the rig was made. Did he try calling Bontrager's? Who is Bontrager's? He has tried everyone from Keystone to the company who they subcontracted the wireless control system from. They don't sell replacements or support the particular system he has. I've done a lot of research on it and it has many people who have had the same problem with it. Only solution is to replace it with a new panel that doesn't rely on the wireless feature. |
Wish I didn't ....
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 21:17:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: He has tried everyone from Keystone to the company who they subcontracted the wireless control system from. They don't sell replacements or support the particular system he has. I've done a lot of research on it and it has many people who have had the same problem with it. Only solution is to replace it with a new panel that doesn't rely on the wireless feature. This RV business makes boats look like a cheap hobby |
Wish I didn't ....
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/15/2017 7:28 PM, John H wrote: On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:20:31 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/15/2017 1:16 PM, John H wrote: On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 08:51:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/10/2017 1:09 AM, wrote: On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:59:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/9/2017 2:15 PM, wrote: On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 13:50:30 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: I think the problem is on the PC board in the control unit. It's supposed to turn on, light up blue and display all the membrane switch areas and labels. It doesn't. Has 12 volts but doesn't turn on, That is the problem with most new things. Everything is on a single board that may only cost a few bucks to produce in some 3d world country but sells for hundreds of dollars. They seldom/never provide any documentation about what is on that board. With a little knowledge of what usually goes wrong, you might get lucky and find a bad part you can replace on the board but they are bad about using parts with no helpful markings on them. I would start with the most rudimentary thing that is not working and trace back to the 12v ... like those back lights. It may just be a diode or regulator on the front end. (the actual controls may be 5v) Are there any burned traces? Parts that look like they got hot? I usually try to draw out what I see going along the traces and hope it is not a multilayered board. I got into this trying to fix gate controller boards. Fixed a few, tossed a bunch. The chip that seemed to be the failing part on most was not documented and the manufacturer was no help. So far I have only seen one side of the control panel board. I plan to remove it completely and inspect it. There are a bunch of tiny diodes on it that are about the only things I can check (forward and reverse bias) if I scrape away some of the conformal coating but nothing else is testable that I can see so far. I think the problem *is* on the PC board but a replacement is not available. I have not been riveted to this thread but Justan may be on to something. How complicated is the task this board accomplishes and can it be done with a few relays? Those black automotive "ice cube" relays are pretty robust (30a) and available just about anywhere. Sometime old school is the way to go. It's doable but I really don't want to get involved with tracing a whole bunch of unmarked wires with no diagrams to give you a clue as to where they go and what they control. Plus, it probably won't fix the level indicators for the fresh, grey and black water tanks. I've learned to be a little careful about what to sign up for on other people's equipment. Back in my Navy days I used to repair or do convergence and gun drive adjustments old CRT type TV sets, fixed VCR's, radios, etc. Once you touch it, you become "on call" for any future problems or issues. I was telling a friend about this issue. He asked if your friend had contacted the Recreation Vehicle Industry Association. When I mentioned the rig was a 2013 and the company no longer made the part, his immediate suggestion was to call RVIA and give them the story. He's been an RV'er a long time. RVIA - 703-620-6003 I'll mention it to him but I doubt anyone can do much. Keystone screwed up royally with this fancy wireless system and won't support it at all anymore. Even the company who made it for them doesn't support it. Only made it for not quite two years before dumping it due to all the problems. I spent the day today trying one last time to find the problem with his rig. Took the control panel completely apart, down to the three layers of PC boards. Found a large reverse polarity protection power diode but it checked good. The rest of the circuitry consisted of chips that I have no way of testing. Was able to turn various systems on by jumping 12 volts to different unmarked wires, so the potential to rewire the whole thing using a panel with real switches instead of the silly membrane pads that send a signal to the main CPU in the front of the fiver. I can't believe Keystone went to all this trouble to get fancy with a panel that has a very simple job to do. Anyway, am reluctantly going to check into a replacement panel with real switches and rewire the thing. I really don't want to but I feel I've invested enough of my time into this now that I want to see success. Besides, the guy I am helping is really a decent **** but knows absolutely nothing about wires, switches or electricity. Larry, my buddy, thought that there was a requirement somewhere for RV manufacturers to keep parts available for some amount of time after the rig was made. Did he try calling Bontrager's? Who is Bontrager's? He has tried everyone from Keystone to the company who they subcontracted the wireless control system from. They don't sell replacements or support the particular system he has. I've done a lot of research on it and it has many people who have had the same problem with it. Only solution is to replace it with a new panel that doesn't rely on the wireless feature. Design it, and sell the design. |
Wish I didn't ....
On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 02:27:05 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: He has tried everyone from Keystone to the company who they subcontracted the wireless control system from. They don't sell replacements or support the particular system he has. I've done a lot of research on it and it has many people who have had the same problem with it. Only solution is to replace it with a new panel that doesn't rely on the wireless feature. Design it, and sell the design. I suspect that this is such a niche market that it is not worth the effort to set up a line and build them. It might be an idea for a guy who wants to run an Ebay business out of his garage but that does not sound like Richard. OTOH my neighbor went down to Marco to see the guy who is "Gem boat lift controllers" and that is exactly who he is. He seems to being doing OK. Of course there are a lot more boat lifts than that particular RV. |
Wish I didn't ....
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