What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or
triangle course these days?

I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders.
Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would
guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class.

Because it had a tunneled hull the M-20 SCOW was considered the fastest. I
found the following at: http://www.m20scow.com/

The M-20 was designed in 1963 by Buddy and Harry Melges of Zenda, WI. The
M-20 is the only scow design with a tunneled hull and the original scow with
a high aspect rig. The M-20 is an extremely fast boat that keeps it's two
person crew on their toes. The M-20 carries 175 square feet of sail in it's
main and jib, plus a 250 square foot spinnaker for downwind speed. The
flexible and adjustable rig allows for crew weights of 270 to 450 pounds.
The boat is typically raced by two person teams including coed, two men or
two women. There are currently active fleets in Colorado, Indiana, Michigan,
Minnesota, New York, Oklahoma, Texas, Wisconsin, and also in Ontario,
Canada.

The M-20 is a great all around boat with active fleets, a new builder and a
healthy used boat market. Start a fleet in your area!

Order Your New M20 Today for less than $14,000! E-mail Scowbuilders at
for more details!





"Harken Ronstan" wrote in message
om...
What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or
triangle course these days?

I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders.
Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would
guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class.

Harken Ronstan wrote:
What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or
triangle course these days?

I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders.
Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would
guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class.

According to the RYA, the 49er's yardstick of 747 is 73 faster than the
next boat - the RS800. I14 is 864, and 505 a mere 902. They quote 855
for the Projection 762 (keelboat). They've also got 689 for the Dart
Hawk cat. No good number for the 18ft skiff, but Datchet Water reckon
it is about 700.

I think you'll find sailboards can't keep up on a proper course, they
are damn fast on a reach and not in any other direction.

Andy.

Hello, If you check the Portsmith handicap numbers. The A-Scow smokes all
other centerboard monohulls including the M-20. I've seen a picture of one
pulling a water skier.

Best Wishes, Steve Ross

http://www.ussailing.org/portsmouth/...tables03cb.htm

"Harken Ronstan" wrote in message
om...
What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or
triangle course these days?

I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders.
Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would
guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class.

Andy,
Just curious, what experience do you base your statement "sailboards
can't keep up on a proper course, they are damn fast on a reach and not
in any other direction". The consensus in windsurfing seems to be that
only Americas Cup boats are competitive with modern Windsurfer "Formula"
class hulls on upwind/downwind downwind courses and then primarily on
the upwind legs.
Ray

Andy Champ wrote:

Harken Ronstan wrote:

What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or
triangle course these days?

I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders.
Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would
guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class.


According to the RYA, the 49er's yardstick of 747 is 73 faster than the
next boat - the RS800. I14 is 864, and 505 a mere 902. They quote 855
for the Projection 762 (keelboat). They've also got 689 for the Dart
Hawk cat. No good number for the 18ft skiff, but Datchet Water reckon
it is about 700.

I think you'll find sailboards can't keep up on a proper course, they
are damn fast on a reach and not in any other direction.

Andy.

I think you'll find sailboards can't keep up on a proper course, they
are damn fast on a reach and not in any other direction.

Andy.

Andy,
there's this race in San Francisco, USA. It's between two bridges,
dead downwind. Anything powered by wind can enter. Kite boarders,
18ft skiffs, windsurfers. 2002 Kite boarder won, followed by a
windsurfer 2nd, followed by an 18ft skiff. 2003 Windsurfer won,
followed by an 18ft skiff.

Ronstan Bridge to Bridge, SF, CA

The skiffs do ok upwind but are still behind the windsurfer at the
upwind mark.
I proved that to myself today. There was some racing today on
Biscyane Bay.
420s, 29ers. I let the 29ers clear there start line. I sailed after
them on my windsurfer. Upwind downwind course proper. When I rounded
the upwind mark ahead of them, I waited till they rounded and passed
me, then I started for the downwind, past them all and was first to
the downwind.

AC boats would win the upwind in less then 10 knots. 10knots the
windsurfer would be waiting at the mark for the AC boat.

fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
My money would be on the 18ft skiff.

"Steven J. Ross" sross45atcomcast.net wrote in message ...
Hello, If you check the Portsmith handicap numbers. The A-Scow smokes all
other centerboard monohulls including the M-20. I've seen a picture of one
pulling a water skier.

Best Wishes, Steve Ross

http://www.ussailing.org/portsmouth/...tables03cb.htm

"Harken Ronstan" wrote in message
om...
What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or
triangle course these days?

I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders.
Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would
guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class.


Funny that the M-20 looks like a Fireball, which I still own. I
sailed it for 10 years including with world record holders in the
Fireball class. It was fast and fun, but certainly not compared to
windsurfing! It was intersting to see that it's rating was in low
80's, which is respectable. This was the dingly class of are yacht
clubs a while back. The problem was they turned out to be too much
boat for the Jr's and the they turtled and got stuck in the mud. I
did manage to drink excessive amounts of beer, sail solo with all
three sails up and go like hell. Thanks for the memories.

I spent may years racing in the midwest (Minnetonka YC) I never
considered the M20 to be a fast boat. It seems to have everything for
high performance but when the wind starts cranking they are the first
to dump or nose dive. Around 1986 or so Melges was testing a super
scow based on the M20, I saw one a Geneva YC, it had an asym spin,
bigger rudders, bow spirt and maybe some other stuff behind the
scenes. At least I though it was a M20, I notice there is a M16 based
version http://www.boatshow.com/MelgesSuperScow16.html so maybe I was
wrong.
No doubt about it, the Ascow is a beast, it is nice to see they have
been more progressive with design changes in the past 10 or so years,
too bad they haven't gone back to trapezes. In the 70's? some carried
four on the wire, I would guess with the sideboards this is a bit
dangerous.
As for windsurfers, the reason I didn't include them is that even old
gear such as a Lechner, which is full displacement hull, will smoke
most anything on most points of sail, especially upwind.

According to the Australian Yachting Federation Special Regulations, the
definition of a "Monohull" is, "A hull in which the hull depth in any
section does not decrease towards the centre-line. All other boats are
considered to be Multihulls".

I am not intimately familiar with the M20, but from what I have read, it
sounds like it would (according to this definition) definitely be
categorised as a multihull.

Nonetheless, a very speedy looking boat indeed.

"MM9995" wrote in message
m...
Because it had a tunneled hull the M-20 SCOW was considered the fastest. I
found the following at: http://www.m20scow.com/

The M-20 was designed in 1963 by Buddy and Harry Melges of Zenda, WI. The
M-20 is the only scow design with a tunneled hull and the original scow
with
a high aspect rig. The M-20 is an extremely fast boat that keeps it's two
person crew on their toes. The M-20 carries 175 square feet of sail in
it's
main and jib, plus a 250 square foot spinnaker for downwind speed. The
flexible and adjustable rig allows for crew weights of 270 to 450 pounds.
The boat is typically raced by two person teams including coed, two men or
two women. There are currently active fleets in Colorado, Indiana,
Michigan,
Minnesota, New York, Oklahoma, Texas, Wisconsin, and also in Ontario,
Canada.

The M-20 is a great all around boat with active fleets, a new builder and
a
healthy used boat market. Start a fleet in your area!

Order Your New M20 Today for less than $14,000! E-mail Scowbuilders at
for more details!





"Harken Ronstan" wrote in message
om...
What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or
triangle course these days?

I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders.
Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would
guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class.

Ray Kuntz wrote:
Andy,
Just curious, what experience do you base your statement "sailboards
can't keep up on a proper course, they are damn fast on a reach and not
in any other direction". The consensus in windsurfing seems to be that
only Americas Cup boats are competitive with modern Windsurfer "Formula"
class hulls on upwind/downwind downwind courses and then primarily on
the upwind legs.
Ray


Hmmm I seem to have stirred this one up. Apart from "popular opinion"
and the fact that all the ones I've raced against don't seem any quicker
around the course than my Solo (UK PY=1155, a tad slower than a Laser)
there's the US Sailing PY tables:


WINDSURFER CLASSES CLASS D-PN WIND HC FOR BEAUFORT RANGE
CODE 0-1 2-3 4 5-9

Div II (SA = 6m2) SB-2 92.6 98.4 94.6 88.4 (85.1)
Div IIB (SA = 6-7m2) SB-2B 89.7 96.3 92.6 83.8 (82.0)
Div IIC (SA = 7m2) SB-2C 86.7 84.4 87.3

That puts the fastest boards about the same as a 470. faster than I
thought, but still not exactly world shattering.

That race in San Francisco? Well, it's downwind.....

Andy