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fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or
triangle course these days? I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders. Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class. |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
Because it had a tunneled hull the M-20 SCOW was considered the fastest. I
found the following at: http://www.m20scow.com/ The M-20 was designed in 1963 by Buddy and Harry Melges of Zenda, WI. The M-20 is the only scow design with a tunneled hull and the original scow with a high aspect rig. The M-20 is an extremely fast boat that keeps it's two person crew on their toes. The M-20 carries 175 square feet of sail in it's main and jib, plus a 250 square foot spinnaker for downwind speed. The flexible and adjustable rig allows for crew weights of 270 to 450 pounds. The boat is typically raced by two person teams including coed, two men or two women. There are currently active fleets in Colorado, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, New York, Oklahoma, Texas, Wisconsin, and also in Ontario, Canada. The M-20 is a great all around boat with active fleets, a new builder and a healthy used boat market. Start a fleet in your area! Order Your New M20 Today for less than $14,000! E-mail Scowbuilders at for more details! "Harken Ronstan" wrote in message om... What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or triangle course these days? I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders. Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class. |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
Harken Ronstan wrote: What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or triangle course these days? I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders. Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class. According to the RYA, the 49er's yardstick of 747 is 73 faster than the next boat - the RS800. I14 is 864, and 505 a mere 902. They quote 855 for the Projection 762 (keelboat). They've also got 689 for the Dart Hawk cat. No good number for the 18ft skiff, but Datchet Water reckon it is about 700. I think you'll find sailboards can't keep up on a proper course, they are damn fast on a reach and not in any other direction. Andy. |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
Hello, If you check the Portsmith handicap numbers. The A-Scow smokes all
other centerboard monohulls including the M-20. I've seen a picture of one pulling a water skier. Best Wishes, Steve Ross http://www.ussailing.org/portsmouth/...tables03cb.htm "Harken Ronstan" wrote in message om... What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or triangle course these days? I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders. Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class. |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
Andy,
Just curious, what experience do you base your statement "sailboards can't keep up on a proper course, they are damn fast on a reach and not in any other direction". The consensus in windsurfing seems to be that only Americas Cup boats are competitive with modern Windsurfer "Formula" class hulls on upwind/downwind downwind courses and then primarily on the upwind legs. Ray Andy Champ wrote: Harken Ronstan wrote: What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or triangle course these days? I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders. Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class. According to the RYA, the 49er's yardstick of 747 is 73 faster than the next boat - the RS800. I14 is 864, and 505 a mere 902. They quote 855 for the Projection 762 (keelboat). They've also got 689 for the Dart Hawk cat. No good number for the 18ft skiff, but Datchet Water reckon it is about 700. I think you'll find sailboards can't keep up on a proper course, they are damn fast on a reach and not in any other direction. Andy. |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
I think you'll find sailboards can't keep up on a proper course, they
are damn fast on a reach and not in any other direction. Andy. Andy, there's this race in San Francisco, USA. It's between two bridges, dead downwind. Anything powered by wind can enter. Kite boarders, 18ft skiffs, windsurfers. 2002 Kite boarder won, followed by a windsurfer 2nd, followed by an 18ft skiff. 2003 Windsurfer won, followed by an 18ft skiff. Ronstan Bridge to Bridge, SF, CA The skiffs do ok upwind but are still behind the windsurfer at the upwind mark. I proved that to myself today. There was some racing today on Biscyane Bay. 420s, 29ers. I let the 29ers clear there start line. I sailed after them on my windsurfer. Upwind downwind course proper. When I rounded the upwind mark ahead of them, I waited till they rounded and passed me, then I started for the downwind, past them all and was first to the downwind. AC boats would win the upwind in less then 10 knots. 10knots the windsurfer would be waiting at the mark for the AC boat. fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)? My money would be on the 18ft skiff. |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
"Steven J. Ross" sross45atcomcast.net wrote in message ...
Hello, If you check the Portsmith handicap numbers. The A-Scow smokes all other centerboard monohulls including the M-20. I've seen a picture of one pulling a water skier. Best Wishes, Steve Ross http://www.ussailing.org/portsmouth/...tables03cb.htm "Harken Ronstan" wrote in message om... What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or triangle course these days? I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders. Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class. Funny that the M-20 looks like a Fireball, which I still own. I sailed it for 10 years including with world record holders in the Fireball class. It was fast and fun, but certainly not compared to windsurfing! It was intersting to see that it's rating was in low 80's, which is respectable. This was the dingly class of are yacht clubs a while back. The problem was they turned out to be too much boat for the Jr's and the they turtled and got stuck in the mud. I did manage to drink excessive amounts of beer, sail solo with all three sails up and go like hell. Thanks for the memories. |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
I spent may years racing in the midwest (Minnetonka YC) I never
considered the M20 to be a fast boat. It seems to have everything for high performance but when the wind starts cranking they are the first to dump or nose dive. Around 1986 or so Melges was testing a super scow based on the M20, I saw one a Geneva YC, it had an asym spin, bigger rudders, bow spirt and maybe some other stuff behind the scenes. At least I though it was a M20, I notice there is a M16 based version http://www.boatshow.com/MelgesSuperScow16.html so maybe I was wrong. No doubt about it, the Ascow is a beast, it is nice to see they have been more progressive with design changes in the past 10 or so years, too bad they haven't gone back to trapezes. In the 70's? some carried four on the wire, I would guess with the sideboards this is a bit dangerous. As for windsurfers, the reason I didn't include them is that even old gear such as a Lechner, which is full displacement hull, will smoke most anything on most points of sail, especially upwind. |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
According to the Australian Yachting Federation Special Regulations, the
definition of a "Monohull" is, "A hull in which the hull depth in any section does not decrease towards the centre-line. All other boats are considered to be Multihulls". I am not intimately familiar with the M20, but from what I have read, it sounds like it would (according to this definition) definitely be categorised as a multihull. Nonetheless, a very speedy looking boat indeed. "MM9995" wrote in message m... Because it had a tunneled hull the M-20 SCOW was considered the fastest. I found the following at: http://www.m20scow.com/ The M-20 was designed in 1963 by Buddy and Harry Melges of Zenda, WI. The M-20 is the only scow design with a tunneled hull and the original scow with a high aspect rig. The M-20 is an extremely fast boat that keeps it's two person crew on their toes. The M-20 carries 175 square feet of sail in it's main and jib, plus a 250 square foot spinnaker for downwind speed. The flexible and adjustable rig allows for crew weights of 270 to 450 pounds. The boat is typically raced by two person teams including coed, two men or two women. There are currently active fleets in Colorado, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, New York, Oklahoma, Texas, Wisconsin, and also in Ontario, Canada. The M-20 is a great all around boat with active fleets, a new builder and a healthy used boat market. Start a fleet in your area! Order Your New M20 Today for less than $14,000! E-mail Scowbuilders at for more details! "Harken Ronstan" wrote in message om... What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or triangle course these days? I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders. Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class. |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
Ray Kuntz wrote: Andy, Just curious, what experience do you base your statement "sailboards can't keep up on a proper course, they are damn fast on a reach and not in any other direction". The consensus in windsurfing seems to be that only Americas Cup boats are competitive with modern Windsurfer "Formula" class hulls on upwind/downwind downwind courses and then primarily on the upwind legs. Ray Hmmm I seem to have stirred this one up. Apart from "popular opinion" and the fact that all the ones I've raced against don't seem any quicker around the course than my Solo (UK PY=1155, a tad slower than a Laser) there's the US Sailing PY tables: WINDSURFER CLASSES CLASS D-PN WIND HC FOR BEAUFORT RANGE CODE 0-1 2-3 4 5-9 Div II (SA = 6m2) SB-2 92.6 98.4 94.6 88.4 (85.1) Div IIB (SA = 6-7m2) SB-2B 89.7 96.3 92.6 83.8 (82.0) Div IIC (SA = 7m2) SB-2C 86.7 84.4 87.3 That puts the fastest boards about the same as a 470. faster than I thought, but still not exactly world shattering. That race in San Francisco? Well, it's downwind..... Andy |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
In article Andy Champ writes:
WINDSURFER CLASSES CLASS D-PN WIND HC FOR BEAUFORT RANGE CODE 0-1 2-3 4 5-9 Div II (SA = 6m2) SB-2 92.6 98.4 94.6 88.4 (85.1) Div IIB (SA = 6-7m2) SB-2B 89.7 96.3 92.6 83.8 (82.0) Div IIC (SA = 7m2) SB-2C 86.7 84.4 87.3 That puts the fastest boards about the same as a 470. faster than I thought, but still not exactly world shattering. Div II sailboards are from the early 1980s. Formula Windsurfing boards can run circles around those, as long as there's enough wind, which means about 8 knots minimum. I'm not saying that they're the fastest thing out there of all sailing vessels for a course...I'm just stating that the table you have quoted is antiquated. Formula boards go upwind pretty well. Not the best in terms of angle, but very good speed, so the VMG is probably respectable. Local racers seem to think that 49ers would be better in light winds, but formula boards could win in medium to high winds. Even in medium to light winds, it's very close and skill plays a huge part. It's nice to see that a widely crossposted thread like this hasn't ended up as a flame war - yet. -- Juri Munkki What you see isn't all you get. http://www.iki.fi/jmunkki Windsurfing: Faster than the wind. |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
You are right Juri, the yachting world still thinks windsurfers are all 12
feet long and have retractable center boards with smallish sails like 7.4 and 6 m2. I like both sailing worlds and sail in both. Until the 70 cm fins and formula boards came along, beating any performance yacht around a course was almost impossible. Now for almost any sailboat to beat a Formula board around a course would require the winds to be under about 9 knots, provided the board is sailed by a top racer of course. On another point, for all out fun and feel for speed, the now old Flying Dutchman was a fun boat and plenty lively, but perhaps not in today's league of high performance boats. Still, the FD in high winds was quite a thrill. And as to the reference to sailboats pulling water skiers, there are more than a few that can do that including a venerable old Mallory and Adams Cup boat called the Flying Scot. I mention the Scot because these were raced against M20's from time to time and I remember one collision. It seems the Scot is like a flying tank (planes easily but is a big hull) and the M20 is more like a china plate. These two boats came to together on a plane and the Scot T-boned the M20, crushing it like an egg. That may be the only way a Formula board (when powered up) would lose to a sailboat. No doubt our Formula boards are the king of egg shells. CI "Juri Munkki" wrote in message ... In article Andy Champ writes: WINDSURFER CLASSES CLASS D-PN WIND HC FOR BEAUFORT RANGE CODE 0-1 2-3 4 5-9 Div II (SA = 6m2) SB-2 92.6 98.4 94.6 88.4 (85.1) Div IIB (SA = 6-7m2) SB-2B 89.7 96.3 92.6 83.8 (82.0) Div IIC (SA = 7m2) SB-2C 86.7 84.4 87.3 That puts the fastest boards about the same as a 470. faster than I thought, but still not exactly world shattering. Div II sailboards are from the early 1980s. Formula Windsurfing boards can run circles around those, as long as there's enough wind, which means about 8 knots minimum. I'm not saying that they're the fastest thing out there of all sailing vessels for a course...I'm just stating that the table you have quoted is antiquated. Formula boards go upwind pretty well. Not the best in terms of angle, but very good speed, so the VMG is probably respectable. Local racers seem to think that 49ers would be better in light winds, but formula boards could win in medium to high winds. Even in medium to light winds, it's very close and skill plays a huge part. It's nice to see that a widely crossposted thread like this hasn't ended up as a flame war - yet. -- Juri Munkki What you see isn't all you get. http://www.iki.fi/jmunkki Windsurfing: Faster than the wind. |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
Both Jeff Feehan and I have reported on chasing keelboats around a course.
While it is true that either a longboard or a Formula board can have better VMG on any point of sail than pretty much any monohull, those favorable conditions often don't last for the whole course. It is not top speed that wins the race, it is the average speed, and that is strongly affected by good sailing as well has having the right equipment for the job. I feel that I actually do better against the speedy dingys than the big, race oriented and well sailed keel boats. Their VMG upwind can be very impressive. If there is good wind, of course I am faster downwind, but the trick is to stay close enough on the upwind legs. Jack (Sarasota) "Charles Ivey" wrote in message news:7m3Ib.27894$HQ.23100@okepread02... You are right Juri, the yachting world still thinks windsurfers are all 12 feet long and have retractable center boards with smallish sails like 7.4 and 6 m2. I like both sailing worlds and sail in both. Until the 70 cm fins and formula boards came along, beating any performance yacht around a course was almost impossible. Now for almost any sailboat to beat a Formula board around a course would require the winds to be under about 9 knots, provided the board is sailed by a top racer of course. On another point, for all out fun and feel for speed, the now old Flying Dutchman was a fun boat and plenty lively, but perhaps not in today's league of high performance boats. Still, the FD in high winds was quite a thrill. And as to the reference to sailboats pulling water skiers, there are more than a few that can do that including a venerable old Mallory and Adams Cup boat called the Flying Scot. I mention the Scot because these were raced against M20's from time to time and I remember one collision. It seems the Scot is like a flying tank (planes easily but is a big hull) and the M20 is more like a china plate. These two boats came to together on a plane and the Scot T-boned the M20, crushing it like an egg. That may be the only way a Formula board (when powered up) would lose to a sailboat. No doubt our Formula boards are the king of egg shells. CI "Juri Munkki" wrote in message ... In article Andy Champ writes: WINDSURFER CLASSES CLASS D-PN WIND HC FOR BEAUFORT RANGE CODE 0-1 2-3 4 5-9 Div II (SA = 6m2) SB-2 92.6 98.4 94.6 88.4 (85.1) Div IIB (SA = 6-7m2) SB-2B 89.7 96.3 92.6 83.8 (82.0) Div IIC (SA = 7m2) SB-2C 86.7 84.4 87.3 That puts the fastest boards about the same as a 470. faster than I thought, but still not exactly world shattering. Div II sailboards are from the early 1980s. Formula Windsurfing boards can run circles around those, as long as there's enough wind, which means about 8 knots minimum. I'm not saying that they're the fastest thing out there of all sailing vessels for a course...I'm just stating that the table you have quoted is antiquated. Formula boards go upwind pretty well. Not the best in terms of angle, but very good speed, so the VMG is probably respectable. Local racers seem to think that 49ers would be better in light winds, but formula boards could win in medium to high winds. Even in medium to light winds, it's very close and skill plays a huge part. It's nice to see that a widely crossposted thread like this hasn't ended up as a flame war - yet. -- Juri Munkki What you see isn't all you get. http://www.iki.fi/jmunkki Windsurfing: Faster than the wind. |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
jack is right, i have had very little luck going upwind against keelboats
with formula gear on long island sound over long distances. yes, i can beat them upwind over short distances - say a few hundred meters - when the wind is up. but i have never beaten them over the full length of say a 2-3 km beat. i belive this is mostly because of the relatively light wind on long island sound in the summer when the keelboats are out racing. formula sailors from windy places, like san francisco, regularly report beating keelboats around the full length of windward-leeward courses. a figure of 8kts was quoted in this thread as the crossover windspeed where formula boards can beat keelboats. i would put the figure higher, maybe at an average windspeed of 12-14 kts, with no lulls below about 10kts. this is to beat a good boat that is well sailed, not a cruising tub with nobody on the rail. these conditions are incredibly rare on summer weekends on long island sound - about the only time there are boats out racing for me to tune against. the caveat is that i don't have a 12.5 m^2 sail, my biggest is an 11.0. and, i don't get to race formula very much, so my skills may be lacking. on the other hand, i do own and race a variety of dinghys and keelboats, so i understand the basics of racing upwind. jeff feehan Jack (Sarasota) wrote: Both Jeff Feehan and I have reported on chasing keelboats around a course. While it is true that either a longboard or a Formula board can have better VMG on any point of sail than pretty much any monohull, those favorable conditions often don't last for the whole course. It is not top speed that wins the race, it is the average speed, and that is strongly affected by good sailing as well has having the right equipment for the job. I feel that I actually do better against the speedy dingys than the big, race oriented and well sailed keel boats. Their VMG upwind can be very impressive. If there is good wind, of course I am faster downwind, but the trick is to stay close enough on the upwind legs. Jack (Sarasota) "Charles Ivey" wrote in message news:7m3Ib.27894$HQ.23100@okepread02... You are right Juri, the yachting world still thinks windsurfers are all 12 feet long and have retractable center boards with smallish sails like 7.4 and 6 m2. I like both sailing worlds and sail in both. Until the 70 cm fins and formula boards came along, beating any performance yacht around a course was almost impossible. Now for almost any sailboat to beat a Formula board around a course would require the winds to be under about 9 knots, provided the board is sailed by a top racer of course. On another point, for all out fun and feel for speed, the now old Flying Dutchman was a fun boat and plenty lively, but perhaps not in today's league of high performance boats. Still, the FD in high winds was quite a thrill. And as to the reference to sailboats pulling water skiers, there are more than a few that can do that including a venerable old Mallory and Adams Cup boat called the Flying Scot. I mention the Scot because these were raced against M20's from time to time and I remember one collision. It seems the Scot is like a flying tank (planes easily but is a big hull) and the M20 is more like a china plate. These two boats came to together on a plane and the Scot T-boned the M20, crushing it like an egg. That may be the only way a Formula board (when powered up) would lose to a sailboat. No doubt our Formula boards are the king of egg shells. CI "Juri Munkki" wrote in message ... In article Andy Champ writes: WINDSURFER CLASSES CLASS D-PN WIND HC FOR BEAUFORT RANGE CODE 0-1 2-3 4 5-9 Div II (SA = 6m2) SB-2 92.6 98.4 94.6 88.4 (85.1) Div IIB (SA = 6-7m2) SB-2B 89.7 96.3 92.6 83.8 (82.0) Div IIC (SA = 7m2) SB-2C 86.7 84.4 87.3 That puts the fastest boards about the same as a 470. faster than I thought, but still not exactly world shattering. Div II sailboards are from the early 1980s. Formula Windsurfing boards can run circles around those, as long as there's enough wind, which means about 8 knots minimum. I'm not saying that they're the fastest thing out there of all sailing vessels for a course...I'm just stating that the table you have quoted is antiquated. Formula boards go upwind pretty well. Not the best in terms of angle, but very good speed, so the VMG is probably respectable. Local racers seem to think that 49ers would be better in light winds, but formula boards could win in medium to high winds. Even in medium to light winds, it's very close and skill plays a huge part. It's nice to see that a widely crossposted thread like this hasn't ended up as a flame war - yet. -- Juri Munkki What you see isn't all you get. http://www.iki.fi/jmunkki Windsurfing: Faster than the wind. |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
Juri Munkki wrote:
I'm not saying that they're the fastest thing out there of all sailing vessels for a course...I'm just stating that the table you have quoted is antiquated. Best table I could find. There's nothing on the RYA, and that is US sailing's entire sailboard table. If you have something more recent I;m sure we'd all like to see it! I'm not surprised that a 2000-date board can beat my boat BTW - it was designed in 1950-something. I'm quite aware that what I am doing is the marine equivalent of racing a Norton... Andy. |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
There are still Fireballs sailing (Worlds are due to start on Friday in
Adelaide) so if you still own one why not sail it? We still drink beer and go like hell! -- Mike McEvoy Fireball CAN 13890 Catalina 30 #860 See the Fireball home page at http://www.lo0.com/fireball/ or Visit the message board http://members.boardhost.com/fireball/ "Prev1" wrote in message om... "Steven J. Ross" sross45atcomcast.net wrote in message ... Hello, If you check the Portsmith handicap numbers. The A-Scow smokes all other centerboard monohulls including the M-20. I've seen a picture of one pulling a water skier. Best Wishes, Steve Ross http://www.ussailing.org/portsmouth/...tables03cb.htm "Harken Ronstan" wrote in message om... What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or triangle course these days? I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders. Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class. Funny that the M-20 looks like a Fireball, which I still own. I sailed it for 10 years including with world record holders in the Fireball class. It was fast and fun, but certainly not compared to windsurfing! It was intersting to see that it's rating was in low 80's, which is respectable. This was the dingly class of are yacht clubs a while back. The problem was they turned out to be too much boat for the Jr's and the they turtled and got stuck in the mud. I did manage to drink excessive amounts of beer, sail solo with all three sails up and go like hell. Thanks for the memories. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.555 / Virus Database: 347 - Release Date: 12/23/2003 |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
Dear Sloped A-hole.
This is "rec.boats.racing" NOT "alt.sailing" Current fastest production mono-hull is Outer Limits 39' with 1400 hp twins and Merc #6 dry-sump drives. 147+ mph Still has Reggie PO'd "Harken Ronstan" wrote in message om... What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or triangle course these days? I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders. Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class. |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
I think you'll find sailboards can't keep up on a proper course, they
are damn fast on a reach and not in any other direction. brian wrote: Andy, there's this race in San Francisco, USA. It's between two bridges, dead downwind. Anything powered by wind can enter. Kite boarders, 18ft skiffs, windsurfers. 2002 Kite boarder won, followed by a windsurfer 2nd, followed by an 18ft skiff. 2003 Windsurfer won, followed by an 18ft skiff. I saw part of this race, and it looked to me like the windsurfer was going much faster in spurts but the skiff was keeping up. The final result was that the 'board won by about 30 seconds. In general I think Andy's remark is accurate, windsurfers are very very fast reching, but they are not much (if any) faster around a regular race course... especially windward/leeward... The skiffs do ok upwind but are still behind the windsurfer at the upwind mark. I proved that to myself today. There was some racing today on Biscyane Bay. 420s, 29ers. I let the 29ers clear there start line. I sailed after them on my windsurfer. Upwind downwind course proper. When I rounded the upwind mark ahead of them, I waited till they rounded and passed me, then I started for the downwind, past them all and was first to the downwind. Sorry, a 29er is hardly in the same league with the 18-footer skiffs. Shucks, a lowly Johnson 18 will beat a 29er all day every day, and it doesn't even have a trap. I've beaten windsurfers around triangular courses in a Laser 2 and in a 470, and while I never raced one formally in the Johnson 18 we often pass them when doing casual sprints. AC boats would win the upwind in less then 10 knots. 10knots the windsurfer would be waiting at the mark for the AC boat. It's possible, depending on the conditions and the board & the boardsailor. Wouldn't a chop slow down the windurfer, too? In any event, remarks like mine are not going to go over well on the windsurfer group where people say things like "a Lechner (ie very old heavy windsurfer) will smoke any regular sailboat" which is laughable. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
DSK wrote: I think you'll find sailboards can't keep up on a proper course, they are damn fast on a reach and not in any other direction. brian wrote: Andy, there's this race in San Francisco, USA. It's between two bridges, dead downwind. Anything powered by wind can enter. Kite boarders, 18ft skiffs, windsurfers. 2002 Kite boarder won, followed by a windsurfer 2nd, followed by an 18ft skiff. 2003 Windsurfer won, followed by an 18ft skiff. I saw part of this race, and it looked to me like the windsurfer was going much faster in spurts but the skiff was keeping up. The final result was that the 'board won by about 30 seconds. In general I think Andy's remark is accurate, windsurfers are very very fast reching, but they are not much (if any) faster around a regular race course... especially windward/leeward... well, being "not much (if any) faster" than a keelboat or skiff around a windward leeward is considered pretty great by most windsurfers familiar with the problems involved. it was only a few years ago - like maybe 4, that even that would have been imposssible. as you say, windsurfers are fast on a reach, but they have always been. their good windward/leeward speed is a relatively new phenomenon, it represents a dramatic performance increase over trhe last few years. jeff feehan The skiffs do ok upwind but are still behind the windsurfer at the upwind mark. I proved that to myself today. There was some racing today on Biscyane Bay. 420s, 29ers. I let the 29ers clear there start line. I sailed after them on my windsurfer. Upwind downwind course proper. When I rounded the upwind mark ahead of them, I waited till they rounded and passed me, then I started for the downwind, past them all and was first to the downwind. Sorry, a 29er is hardly in the same league with the 18-footer skiffs. Shucks, a lowly Johnson 18 will beat a 29er all day every day, and it doesn't even have a trap. I've beaten windsurfers around triangular courses in a Laser 2 and in a 470, and while I never raced one formally in the Johnson 18 we often pass them when doing casual sprints. AC boats would win the upwind in less then 10 knots. 10knots the windsurfer would be waiting at the mark for the AC boat. It's possible, depending on the conditions and the board & the boardsailor. Wouldn't a chop slow down the windurfer, too? In any event, remarks like mine are not going to go over well on the windsurfer group where people say things like "a Lechner (ie very old heavy windsurfer) will smoke any regular sailboat" which is laughable. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
jeff feehan wrote:
well, being "not much (if any) faster" than a keelboat or skiff around a windward leeward is considered pretty great by most windsurfers familiar with the problems involved. Sure. Faster = better ;) But you still can't pop a beer while windsurfing, or bring a friend. BTW I have not had a chance to benchmark the speed of these kitesurfers against any of the boats I sail. From watching them, they seem to prefer reaching back & forth. it was only a few years ago - like maybe 4, that even that would have been imposssible. as you say, windsurfers are fast on a reach, but they have always been. their good windward/leeward speed is a relatively new phenomenon, it represents a dramatic performance increase over trhe last few years. Well, monohull performance has increased in the past few years too. There are more controllable rigs, screechers, square tops, improved foil designs, etc etc. But it seems to me that improvements in windsurfers are more widely distributed faster than in small fast monohulls. Especially one-design classes, most of which are actually rather backwards-looking and Luddite. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
Gutass,
You really are behind the curve. You responded in: alt.sailing alt.sailing.asa rec.windsurfing And rec.boatsracing (for people that actually compete) as opposed to rec.boatsracing.power And - If you are going to include silly motor toys then the fastest monohull is the Russian KM Ekranoplan at 500+Kph (~270K) Gustaf wrote: Dear Sloped A-hole. This is "rec.boats.racing" NOT "alt.sailing" Current fastest production mono-hull is Outer Limits 39' with 1400 hp twins and Merc #6 dry-sump drives. 147+ mph Still has Reggie PO'd "Harken Ronstan" wrote in message om... What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or triangle course these days? I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders. Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class. |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
I did a bit of fast reching myself early NewYears day,
and I do windsurf. -Craig DSK wrote: [snip] In general I think Andy's remark is accurate, windsurfers are very very fast reching, but they are not much (if any) faster around a regular race course... especially windward/leeward... [snip] -- Craig (Go Short or Go Home!) Goudie Sailing the high desert lakes of Utah on my: RRD 298, Starboard 272 and Cross M 8'2" with Sailworks/Naish Sails and Rec Composites Fins Sailing the Gorge on my: 9'1" RRD Freeride, 8'3" Logosz Squish, 8'0" Hitech IBM with Sailworks/Northwave Sails and Curtis Fins |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
The Lechner remark isn't exactly accurate, in particular since other Div.II
from that era were considered better (like the Davidson). Moreover, I think it was tongue in cheek. But still wrong on another level in that in a steady light wind (9 knots) a FW board will kill any Div.II board around most any course. Hey Doug, where are you? Bellsouth gives you away! -- -Dan "DSK" wrote in message ... I think you'll find sailboards can't keep up on a proper course, they are damn fast on a reach and not in any other direction. brian wrote: Andy, there's this race in San Francisco, USA. It's between two bridges, dead downwind. Anything powered by wind can enter. Kite boarders, 18ft skiffs, windsurfers. 2002 Kite boarder won, followed by a windsurfer 2nd, followed by an 18ft skiff. 2003 Windsurfer won, followed by an 18ft skiff. I saw part of this race, and it looked to me like the windsurfer was going much faster in spurts but the skiff was keeping up. The final result was that the 'board won by about 30 seconds. In general I think Andy's remark is accurate, windsurfers are very very fast reching, but they are not much (if any) faster around a regular race course... especially windward/leeward... The skiffs do ok upwind but are still behind the windsurfer at the upwind mark. I proved that to myself today. There was some racing today on Biscyane Bay. 420s, 29ers. I let the 29ers clear there start line. I sailed after them on my windsurfer. Upwind downwind course proper. When I rounded the upwind mark ahead of them, I waited till they rounded and passed me, then I started for the downwind, past them all and was first to the downwind. Sorry, a 29er is hardly in the same league with the 18-footer skiffs. Shucks, a lowly Johnson 18 will beat a 29er all day every day, and it doesn't even have a trap. I've beaten windsurfers around triangular courses in a Laser 2 and in a 470, and while I never raced one formally in the Johnson 18 we often pass them when doing casual sprints. AC boats would win the upwind in less then 10 knots. 10knots the windsurfer would be waiting at the mark for the AC boat. It's possible, depending on the conditions and the board & the boardsailor. Wouldn't a chop slow down the windurfer, too? In any event, remarks like mine are not going to go over well on the windsurfer group where people say things like "a Lechner (ie very old heavy windsurfer) will smoke any regular sailboat" which is laughable. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
DSK wrote in message ...
I think you'll find sailboards can't keep up on a proper course, they are damn fast on a reach and not in any other direction. brian wrote: Andy, there's this race in San Francisco, USA. It's between two bridges, dead downwind. Anything powered by wind can enter. Kite boarders, 18ft skiffs, windsurfers. 2002 Kite boarder won, followed by a windsurfer 2nd, followed by an 18ft skiff. 2003 Windsurfer won, followed by an 18ft skiff. I saw part of this race, and it looked to me like the windsurfer was going much faster in spurts but the skiff was keeping up. The final result was that the 'board won by about 30 seconds. In general I think Andy's remark is accurate, windsurfers are very very fast reching, but they are not much (if any) faster around a regular race course... especially windward/leeward... So, fact is, the Windsurfer wins the leeward leg of the regular/proper windward/leeward course with a 30 second spurt. Still won that leg though. The skiffs do ok upwind but are still behind the windsurfer at the upwind mark. I proved that to myself today. There was some racing today on Biscyane Bay. 420s, 29ers. I let the 29ers clear there start line. I sailed after them on my windsurfer. Upwind downwind course proper. When I rounded the upwind mark ahead of them, I waited till they rounded and passed me, then I started for the downwind, past them all and was first to the downwind. Sorry, a 29er is hardly in the same league with the 18-footer skiffs. Shucks, a lowly Johnson 18 will beat a 29er all day every day, and it doesn't even have a trap. I've beaten windsurfers around triangular courses in a Laser 2 and in a 470, and while I never raced one formally in the Johnson 18 we often pass them when doing casual sprints. Yes your right I'm sure there are faster non-displacement monos around. But they had a course set and were out there racin so I went out and joined them. First year I had my Foumula Board I riged and went out and tried racin the Tornado's in the Rolex Olympic Class Regatta on Biscayne Bay. I wasn't even close. Now I have some better equipment, a bit more skill, and can tune the stuff better for the conditions. Had the chance to do a side by side with a couple of Tornados out tuning last month. It was no problem to pull away from them this time. But this wasn't a race. AC boats would win the upwind in less then 10 knots. 10knots the windsurfer would be waiting at the mark for the AC boat. It's possible, depending on the conditions and the board & the boardsailor. Wouldn't a chop slow down the windurfer, too? Steep chop like on Biscayne Bay does slow the windsurfer down. Still not slower than the sailboat. In any event, remarks like mine are not going to go over well on the windsurfer group where people say things like "a Lechner (ie very old heavy windsurfer) will smoke any regular sailboat" which is laughable. Fresh Breezes- Doug King What we need here is a challange. I challange any wind powered craft to prevail over a Formula Windsurfer and competant sailor in a series of four Regattas on a regular/proper windward/leeward course. Wind min. of 10 knots. The yacht and sailing clubs down in the Coconut Grove might go for this. whonositflosit Fesstoosn- Brian |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:00:19 -0500, "Dan Weiss"
wrote: -- -Dan "DSK" wrote in message ... I think you'll find sailboards can't keep up on a proper course, they are damn fast on a reach and not in any other direction. brian wrote: Andy, there's this race in San Francisco, USA. It's between two bridges, dead downwind. Anything powered by wind can enter. Kite boarders, 18ft skiffs, windsurfers. 2002 Kite boarder won, followed by a windsurfer 2nd, followed by an 18ft skiff. 2003 Windsurfer won, followed by an 18ft skiff. I saw part of this race, and it looked to me like the windsurfer was going much faster in spurts but the skiff was keeping up. The final result was that the 'board won by about 30 seconds. I didn't see this, but if the windsurfer just managed to beat the skiff downwind only, a windward-leeward would have been a walkover for the skiff. In general I think Andy's remark is accurate, windsurfers are very very fast reching, but they are not much (if any) faster around a regular race course... especially windward/leeward... Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a Does one child rape really change Strom Thurmond's lifetime record? For better or worse? |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
brian wrote: What we need here is a challange. I challange any wind powered craft to prevail over a Formula Windsurfer and competant sailor in a series of four Regattas on a regular/proper windward/leeward course. Wind min. of 10 knots. The yacht and sailing clubs down in the Coconut Grove might go for this. whonositflosit Fesstoosn- Brian depending on what boats they race there, you might need more than 10 kts - 12 would be safer. the problem is to predict a date/time where the wind won't drop below 10 (or 12) kts. around here (long island sound) that's pretty hard - a good seabreeze day will almost always have lulls below 12 kts. when i sail formula against keelboats, i do fine until i sail into a lull, and the i get left behind. jeff feehan |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
brian wrote: What we need here is a challange. I challange any wind powered craft to prevail over a Formula Windsurfer and competant sailor in a series of four Regattas on a regular/proper windward/leeward course. Wind min. of 10 knots. The yacht and sailing clubs down in the Coconut Grove might go for this. There used to be an annual race that was a challenge among all one-design classes, but it died out before windsurfers caught on. The problem I see is that the hot windsurfers (at least the ones I'm familiar with) aren't really one-design at all, they mix-n-match boards, gear, sails in all kinds of variations. Obviously there should be a completely open class which might include giant proas, hydrofoils, kite boards, etc etc. BTW if you want to place a limit on your challenge of winds 10 knots, you might also be aware that other specialized craft have a right to name their favorite conditions too. Try racing against a Thistle in winds of less than 3 knots. jeff feehan wrote: depending on what boats they race there, you might need more than 10 kts - 12 would be safer. What about a maximum? the problem is to predict a date/time where the wind won't drop below 10 (or 12) kts. around here (long island sound) that's pretty hard - a good seabreeze day will almost always have lulls below 12 kts. when i sail formula against keelboats, i do fine until i sail into a lull, and the i get left behind. It's even more dramatic with a hydrofoiler. But you can see why some of us are a bit amused by the way some windsurfers (obviously not *all*) claim a blanket superiority. Must be an ego thing. Personally, I haven't done any windsurfing for a few years, if the gear has improved that much maybe I should give it another try. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
Doug and everyone else,
Give it a try. The newer wide style boards dating back four or five years are an eye opener. You won't get wet (as often), as 1 meter wide boards are 1) very stable and 2) there is a lot of deck to land on. They plane off incredibly easily, even (especially) for the +42 inch waistband crowd (I treat my own gut as movable ballast). They can be sailed sitting down (somewhere there is a photo of Brian "The Dog" Cunningham sailing his Start sitting in a lawn chair) and some come with a beer locker (well the Exocet Cruiser has a cubby big enough for one can) They also sail fully planning at very high upwind (and Downwind) angles and thanks to refined rocker lines, give up very little to traditional narrow shapes on reaches. Modern windsurfing sails are another wonder. Since we can't reef our sails, or change them without coming in, borrowing some of the sail shaping hardware from real boats added to intensive design work by our sailmakers has produced incredibly well shaped, extremely stable rigs with working wind ranges twice what they used to be. All in all this new user friendly stuff has revolutionized Windsurfing, it's a blast, a welcome breath of fresh air in a sport that was stagnating. Ray DSK wrote: brian wrote: What we need here is a challange. I challange any wind powered craft to prevail over a Formula Windsurfer and competant sailor in a series of four Regattas on a regular/proper windward/leeward course. Wind min. of 10 knots. The yacht and sailing clubs down in the Coconut Grove might go for this. There used to be an annual race that was a challenge among all one-design classes, but it died out before windsurfers caught on. The problem I see is that the hot windsurfers (at least the ones I'm familiar with) aren't really one-design at all, they mix-n-match boards, gear, sails in all kinds of variations. Obviously there should be a completely open class which might include giant proas, hydrofoils, kite boards, etc etc. BTW if you want to place a limit on your challenge of winds 10 knots, you might also be aware that other specialized craft have a right to name their favorite conditions too. Try racing against a Thistle in winds of less than 3 knots. jeff feehan wrote: depending on what boats they race there, you might need more than 10 kts - 12 would be safer. What about a maximum? the problem is to predict a date/time where the wind won't drop below 10 (or 12) kts. around here (long island sound) that's pretty hard - a good seabreeze day will almost always have lulls below 12 kts. when i sail formula against keelboats, i do fine until i sail into a lull, and the i get left behind. It's even more dramatic with a hydrofoiler. But you can see why some of us are a bit amused by the way some windsurfers (obviously not *all*) claim a blanket superiority. Must be an ego thing. Personally, I haven't done any windsurfing for a few years, if the gear has improved that much maybe I should give it another try. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
"getlost" wrote in message ... And - If you are going to include silly motor toys then the fastest monohull is the Russian KM Ekranoplan at 500+Kph (~270K) Dear Dumb-Ass, The question was for "production" mono hulls, not experimental |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
DSK wrote: brian wrote: What we need here is a challange. I challange any wind powered craft to prevail over a Formula Windsurfer and competant sailor in a series of four Regattas on a regular/proper windward/leeward course. Wind min. of 10 knots. The yacht and sailing clubs down in the Coconut Grove might go for this. There used to be an annual race that was a challenge among all one-design classes, but it died out before windsurfers caught on. The problem I see is that the hot windsurfers (at least the ones I'm familiar with) aren't really one-design at all, they mix-n-match boards, gear, sails in all kinds of variations. Obviously there should be a completely open class which might include giant proas, hydrofoils, kite boards, etc etc. BTW if you want to place a limit on your challenge of winds 10 knots, you might also be aware that other specialized craft have a right to name their favorite conditions too. Try racing against a Thistle in winds of less than 3 knots. and, if you wanted to give a prize for the "least comfortable" boat around the course, the thistle would probably win that too. well, of course, for different windspeeds, different boats would win. but, i would bet that if you set a windward/leeward course somewhere with generally breezy conditions, and ran a contest that lasted, say, several months - a formula windsurfer would win the overall prize for fastest time around the course. i doubt that any skiffs, cats, a.c. boats, or anything else would be as fast. somehow, the prize for fastest time seems more desireable than one for a particular wind range - to me at least. Personally, I haven't done any windsurfing for a few years, if the gear has improved that much maybe I should give it another try. with respect to windward/leeward performance in moderate windspeeds, the gear has improved quite considerably in the last few years - i would say the new gear is revolutionary. i also race dinghys and keelboats, and i so i would say my opinion is an informed one. in light winds, say under 8kts, the performance gain isn't so big - 10 year old boards still win in these conditions. jeff feehan jeff feehan wrote: depending on what boats they race there, you might need more than 10 kts - 12 would be safer. What about a maximum? the problem is to predict a date/time where the wind won't drop below 10 (or 12) kts. around here (long island sound) that's pretty hard - a good seabreeze day will almost always have lulls below 12 kts. when i sail formula against keelboats, i do fine until i sail into a lull, and the i get left behind. It's even more dramatic with a hydrofoiler. But you can see why some of us are a bit amused by the way some windsurfers (obviously not *all*) claim a blanket superiority. Must be an ego thing. Personally, I haven't done any windsurfing for a few years, if the gear has improved that much maybe I should give it another try. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
DSK wrote: BTW if you want to place a limit on your challenge of winds 10 knots, you might also be aware that other specialized craft have a right to name their favorite conditions too. Try racing against a Thistle in winds of less than 3 knots. jeff feehan wrote: and, if you wanted to give a prize for the "least comfortable" boat around the course, the thistle would probably win that too. Agreed ;) but then the Thistles have a large & enthusiastic fan club. The issue here is that light winds are very common on inland lakes and in some coastal areas, so if for some reason one finds oneself living in such an area, the Thistle is a good choice. well, of course, for different windspeeds, different boats would win. but, i would bet that if you set a windward/leeward course somewhere with generally breezy conditions, and ran a contest that lasted, say, several months - a formula windsurfer would win the overall prize for fastest time around the course. i doubt that any skiffs, cats, a.c. boats, or anything else would be as fast. Well after looking around a bit more, it looks like windsurfer performance has improved but as I said, so has monohulls. IACC boats VMG is pretty impressive, so is the F40 cats and the C-cats. It would be an interesting trial. One thing is for sure, to get a monohull with anything approaching this performance, you have to spend a LOT more money. I saw an open race last year where an 18-footer skiff, a canting keel Schock 40, and S&S '87 (the America's Cup cat) were in the same race. At different times any of the three above were ahead and showing better speed than the others, but overall the big cat won. somehow, the prize for fastest time seems more desireable than one for a particular wind range - to me at least. But what you're saying is 'fastest time within a particular wind range.' Why not give the other guy a chance to pick his favorite conditions, it's only fair. Personally, I haven't done any windsurfing for a few years, if the gear has improved that much maybe I should give it another try. with respect to windward/leeward performance in moderate windspeeds, the gear has improved quite considerably in the last few years - i would say the new gear is revolutionary. i also race dinghys and keelboats, and i so i would say my opinion is an informed one. in light winds, say under 8kts, the performance gain isn't so big - 10 year old boards still win in these conditions. Personally, I'd like to see some new boat classes that incorporate some of the same advances. Most popular classes are ~40 year old designs. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
fastest troll (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
Gustaf wrote:
Dear Dumb-Ass, The question was for "production" mono hulls, not experimental You must have sniffed too much gasoline. Try your trolling in rec.brain.damaged DSK |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
The message
from DSK contains these words: BTW if you want to place a limit on your challenge of winds 10 knots, you might also be aware that other specialized craft have a right to name their favorite conditions too. Try racing against a Thistle in winds of less than 3 knots. Possibly then it is not the wisest decision (made many years ago) to have only Thistle (and no other boats) as the Primary Yardstick in the American Portsmouth Yardstick Scheme. This can give skewing problems because of the biassed characteristics of its performance. RYA Portsmouth Yardstick Scheme (on which Dixie was based in 1961) uses several Primary Yardstick classes so making it more a level "playing field" in comparing classes' performances. These include single-handed and two handed, una rigged, two sail and three sail (with conventional and asymetric spis), modern and older designs. Stuart Chairman: RYA Portsmouth Yardstick Advisory Group |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
Harken Ronstan wrote:
What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or triangle course these days? I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders. Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class. In light winds (under maybe 6 or 7 knots) AC type boats (long, narrow keel yacht) are probabely fastest. A little more wind and i would consider racing skiffs. Even more (12 knots and up) and Formula Windsurfing gear has chances. But ultimately fastest are probabely big (semi)planing racing yachts like the Open 60s or even bigger beasts. Wasn't there a thread about a 150ft racing monohull shattering some record a while back? Of course these boats aren't readily available to most of us... -- Wolfgang |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
i agree with the a.c. boats, but open 60's and similar boats
aren't designed for upwind work. neither was mari cha - the boat that beat the transatlantic record recently. jeff feehan Wolfgang Soergel wrote: Harken Ronstan wrote: What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or triangle course these days? I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders. Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class. In light winds (under maybe 6 or 7 knots) AC type boats (long, narrow keel yacht) are probabely fastest. A little more wind and i would consider racing skiffs. Even more (12 knots and up) and Formula Windsurfing gear has chances. But ultimately fastest are probabely big (semi)planing racing yachts like the Open 60s or even bigger beasts. Wasn't there a thread about a 150ft racing monohull shattering some record a while back? Of course these boats aren't readily available to most of us... |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
jeff feehan wrote:
i agree with the a.c. boats, but open 60's and similar boats aren't designed for upwind work. neither was mari cha - the boat that beat the transatlantic record recently. The problem with IACC boats is that they are designed strictly for windward & leeward VMG, and furthermore are highly optimized for winds between approx 5 to 15 knots. They don't plane and could not be made to plane, but they do have long waterlines & tricky hull designs so they can get up & downwind pretty fast. But they aren't drag racers, their top speed is low by even planing dinghy standards. The Open 60s are the opposite, designed to scoot downwind (or at least on fairly deep reaches). Around a closed course or upwind, they are not slow but not in the running for fastest IMHO. Mari-Cha 4 (the 140'+ new record breaking monohull, a ketch no less) has the same design issues, but is enough bigger (LWL approaching twice the IACC boats) & more extreme that she would have to be a contender any place she could fit on the course. Supposedly this boat can go 2X true wind speed under a wide variety of conditions.... a chop isn't going to slow her down much! Besides if a windsurfer was on the same race course with any of these boats, all the other skipper would have to do is blanket him ;) Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
In rec.windsurfing jeff feehan wrote:
.... depending on what boats they race there, you might need more than 10 kts - 12 would be safer. But that's boring! 17-20 kts is the sweet spot for my taste. I'm pretty sure I can't plane my Formula stuff in 10-12 kts. (Of course, I'm by far the worst Formula "racer" around...) Cheers, Cliff |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
Wolfgang Soergel wrote in message ...
Harken Ronstan wrote: What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or triangle course these days? I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders. Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class. In light winds (under maybe 6 or 7 knots) AC type boats (long, narrow keel yacht) are probabely fastest. A little more wind and i would consider racing skiffs. Even more (12 knots and up) and Formula Windsurfing gear has chances. But ultimately fastest are probabely big (semi)planing racing yachts like the Open 60s or even bigger beasts. Wasn't there a thread about a 150ft racing monohull shattering some record a while back? Of course these boats aren't readily available to most of us... Oh, the speculation. Can we agree on some general principals? The longer the course, the better shot a larger boat has. (There is a reason that the 251' James Baines circumnavigated in 160 days, and her record stood for 131 years.) The flatter the course the greater the advantage to most windsurfers. The steadier the wind the better the chance a windsurfer has. The lighter the wind the greater the benefit of extremely efficient designs, like the AC class boats and FW boards. The heavier the wind the better the more stable designs perform, designs like offshre multihulls and massive monohulls. Finally, the smaller my wallet gets the more I like FW boards for their comparatively cheap thrill! -Dan |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
On 1/7/04 9:42 AM Wolfgang Soergel wrote:
Harken Ronstan wrote: What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or triangle course these days? I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders. Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class. In light winds (under maybe 6 or 7 knots) AC type boats (long, narrow keel yacht) are probabely fastest. A little more wind and i would consider racing skiffs. Even more (12 knots and up) and Formula Windsurfing gear has chances. But ultimately fastest are probabely big (semi)planing racing yachts like the Open 60s or even bigger beasts. Wasn't there a thread about a 150ft racing monohull shattering some record a while back? Of course these boats aren't readily available to most of us... You mean my little weekend cruiser? http://www.maricha4.com/ You're welcome to borrow it, if you scrub it down and fold the sails nicely.... florian |
fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
DSK wrote:
Mari-Cha 4 (the 140'+ new record breaking monohull, a ketch no less).. Looks more like a schooner to me... Besides if a windsurfer was on the same race course with any of these boats, all the other skipper would have to do is blanket him ;) Good point! And could you imagine being dead in the water with a 140 ft boat bearing down on you? -- //-Walt // // |
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