On 6/3/17 12:41 PM, True North wrote:
On Saturday, 3 June 2017 11:25:02 UTC-3, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 08:03:31 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



These guys are pretty good. As I previously posted, I visited them on
Thursday to see how things were going. When I mentioned the control
valve the tech acknowledged that it was the first thing he thought of
but they are obligated to follow the recommended "fix" procedures by
Nissan in order to be compensated for parts and labor by the
manufacturer for warranty repair. In order to replace the control valve
they have to get further authorization from Nissan. Makes sense but if
they were free to do what *they* think should be done I would have had
the car back on Wednesday. Now it will be sometime next week. Ok with
me. The loaner they gave me is nice and better equipped. Might even
see if I can strike a deal to keep it instead. :-)



I ran into a similar thing with Mercury on my old 60 EFI outboard.
Unfortunately they ended up selling me some parts I did not need in
the flow chart (thermostat, impeller etc) but I saved the original
ones and reused them on subsequent maintenance so I just ended up
eating some labor. In the end I had isolated the problem down to a few
things that they could not ignore and they finally admitted it was a
problem mating the Mercury "big foot" L/U cooling water to the Yamaha
licensed power head. They knew about it and thought they had the
problem fixed ... it wasn't. My local guy came up with the fix that
was adopted for all of them until subsequent new manufacture used a
different interface. Essentially the water tube broke loose at the top
and it was done by the dealer on the first 100 hour (in 2002). That
was the last time I ever took a motor to a dealer for routine service
although it was a pretty common problem on all of the "big foot" Mercs
that used Yamaha power heads around that time. The local guy had just
gone through this on a smaller motor but he still had to convince Merc
it affected the 40-60s. By then I had the folks in corporate involved
and I was beating them up pretty bad on the boat BBs. They gave him
free rein to fix the problem and when he was successful they wanted to
know what he did.
Bottom up, field engineering ;-)

Wow!
I had no problem with my 'Made in China' 2012 Mercury 60 BigFoot.



Greg had the 1912 Evinrude, signed by Ole Evinrude himself and with
210,000 hours on it.

On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 09:41:35 -0700 (PDT), True North
wrote:

On Saturday, 3 June 2017 11:25:02 UTC-3, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 08:03:31 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



These guys are pretty good. As I previously posted, I visited them on
Thursday to see how things were going. When I mentioned the control
valve the tech acknowledged that it was the first thing he thought of
but they are obligated to follow the recommended "fix" procedures by
Nissan in order to be compensated for parts and labor by the
manufacturer for warranty repair. In order to replace the control valve
they have to get further authorization from Nissan. Makes sense but if
they were free to do what *they* think should be done I would have had
the car back on Wednesday. Now it will be sometime next week. Ok with
me. The loaner they gave me is nice and better equipped. Might even
see if I can strike a deal to keep it instead. :-)



I ran into a similar thing with Mercury on my old 60 EFI outboard.
Unfortunately they ended up selling me some parts I did not need in
the flow chart (thermostat, impeller etc) but I saved the original
ones and reused them on subsequent maintenance so I just ended up
eating some labor. In the end I had isolated the problem down to a few
things that they could not ignore and they finally admitted it was a
problem mating the Mercury "big foot" L/U cooling water to the Yamaha
licensed power head. They knew about it and thought they had the
problem fixed ... it wasn't. My local guy came up with the fix that
was adopted for all of them until subsequent new manufacture used a
different interface. Essentially the water tube broke loose at the top
and it was done by the dealer on the first 100 hour (in 2002). That
was the last time I ever took a motor to a dealer for routine service
although it was a pretty common problem on all of the "big foot" Mercs
that used Yamaha power heads around that time. The local guy had just
gone through this on a smaller motor but he still had to convince Merc
it affected the 40-60s. By then I had the folks in corporate involved
and I was beating them up pretty bad on the boat BBs. They gave him
free rein to fix the problem and when he was successful they wanted to
know what he did.
Bottom up, field engineering ;-)

Wow!
I had no problem with my 'Made in China' 2012 Mercury 60 BigFoot.

I am sure after 10 years, they shook out all of the bugs. Honestly,
that was the only real design defect I had in 3000 hours. Other than
that I just had one bad HP fuel pump and two bad IAC valves. The pump
caused the engine to start leaning out around 3000 RPM with low rail
pressure on the injector rail. The IAC valve keeps it from idling, it
is OK once the throttle opens a bit. On those motors, the throttle is
closed on idle and the air all comes from the IAC, controlled by the
computer. It is a $40 part that is real easy to change (one hose, one
connector and one screw, all out in the open).
That is what makes the "paca paca" sound when it is idling.
The HP pump is a little harder but not much. You need to open up the
vapor separator. You might be able to do it without removing the VST
but I just took it off (3 screws). Easy job in the driveway.

On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 13:32:45 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

Greg had the 1912 Evinrude, signed by Ole Evinrude himself and with
210,000 hours on it.

Funny you say that. I did have a 1924 Evinrude I got for $25 from the
same little old lady who sold me the 1974 7.5 HP merc I used on my 12'
jon boat for years. (both for $300).
I still have the 7.5 but I gave the old 'rude to a collector here. I
am sure I could have sold it for a handsome profit but this was a good
guy who appreciated it. I am sure it is restored to like new condition
by now. It is what he does.

On 6/3/17 4:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 13:32:45 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

Greg had the 1912 Evinrude, signed by Ole Evinrude himself and with
210,000 hours on it.

Funny you say that. I did have a 1924 Evinrude I got for $25 from the
same little old lady who sold me the 1974 7.5 HP merc I used on my 12'
jon boat for years. (both for $300).
I still have the 7.5 but I gave the old 'rude to a collector here. I
am sure I could have sold it for a handsome profit but this was a good
guy who appreciated it. I am sure it is restored to like new condition
by now. It is what he does.



My dad always had some really old Evinrudes in the shop, but I don't
recall what most of them were. I do remember, though, a 50 hp monster
from post WWII that he stuck on a 13' speedboat he built to race around
Long Island Sound.

Found a photo of one:

http://tinyurl.com/y9exrwyc

My "first" outboard that I got to use for the summer when I was about
six was a 1-1/2 hp that I put on the back of a pram. The next summer,
when I was seven, I got a slightly used Mercury Super Hurricane he took
in on trade. It was a 10 hp, but in reality it might have had twice that
much hp. Put it on a 12' Penn Yan.

On 6/3/2017 5:17 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/3/17 4:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 13:32:45 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

Greg had the 1912 Evinrude, signed by Ole Evinrude himself and with
210,000 hours on it.

Funny you say that. I did have a 1924 Evinrude I got for $25 from the
same little old lady who sold me the 1974 7.5 HP merc I used on my 12'
jon boat for years. (both for $300).
I still have the 7.5 but I gave the old 'rude to a collector here. I
am sure I could have sold it for a handsome profit but this was a good
guy who appreciated it. I am sure it is restored to like new condition
by now. It is what he does.



My dad always had some really old Evinrudes in the shop, but I don't
recall what most of them were. I do remember, though, a 50 hp monster
from post WWII that he stuck on a 13' speedboat he built to race around
Long Island Sound.

Found a photo of one:

http://tinyurl.com/y9exrwyc


Don't think that's a 50 hp outboard. The spec says "3hp at 3000 RPM.

On Saturday, 3 June 2017 18:17:34 UTC-3, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/3/17 4:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 13:32:45 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

Greg had the 1912 Evinrude, signed by Ole Evinrude himself and with
210,000 hours on it.

Funny you say that. I did have a 1924 Evinrude I got for $25 from the
same little old lady who sold me the 1974 7.5 HP merc I used on my 12'
jon boat for years. (both for $300).
I still have the 7.5 but I gave the old 'rude to a collector here. I
am sure I could have sold it for a handsome profit but this was a good
guy who appreciated it. I am sure it is restored to like new condition
by now. It is what he does.



My dad always had some really old Evinrudes in the shop, but I don't
recall what most of them were. I do remember, though, a 50 hp monster
from post WWII that he stuck on a 13' speedboat he built to race around
Long Island Sound.

Found a photo of one:

http://tinyurl.com/y9exrwyc

My "first" outboard that I got to use for the summer when I was about
six was a 1-1/2 hp that I put on the back of a pram. The next summer,
when I was seven, I got a slightly used Mercury Super Hurricane he took
in on trade. It was a 10 hp, but in reality it might have had twice that
much hp. Put it on a 12' Penn Yan.


That old motor strangely looks a bit like my 1954 British Seagull 40 Plus.
http://www.britishseagullparts.com/40Plus.htm

On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 18:16:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/3/2017 5:17 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/3/17 4:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 13:32:45 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

Greg had the 1912 Evinrude, signed by Ole Evinrude himself and with
210,000 hours on it.

Funny you say that. I did have a 1924 Evinrude I got for $25 from the
same little old lady who sold me the 1974 7.5 HP merc I used on my 12'
jon boat for years. (both for $300).
I still have the 7.5 but I gave the old 'rude to a collector here. I
am sure I could have sold it for a handsome profit but this was a good
guy who appreciated it. I am sure it is restored to like new condition
by now. It is what he does.



My dad always had some really old Evinrudes in the shop, but I don't
recall what most of them were. I do remember, though, a 50 hp monster
from post WWII that he stuck on a 13' speedboat he built to race around
Long Island Sound.

Found a photo of one:

http://tinyurl.com/y9exrwyc


Don't think that's a 50 hp outboard. The spec says "3hp at 3000 RPM.


That is not the same one. That looks newer

On 6/4/2017 1:03 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 18:16:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/3/2017 5:17 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/3/17 4:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 13:32:45 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

Greg had the 1912 Evinrude, signed by Ole Evinrude himself and with
210,000 hours on it.

Funny you say that. I did have a 1924 Evinrude I got for $25 from the
same little old lady who sold me the 1974 7.5 HP merc I used on my 12'
jon boat for years. (both for $300).
I still have the 7.5 but I gave the old 'rude to a collector here. I
am sure I could have sold it for a handsome profit but this was a good
guy who appreciated it. I am sure it is restored to like new condition
by now. It is what he does.



My dad always had some really old Evinrudes in the shop, but I don't
recall what most of them were. I do remember, though, a 50 hp monster
from post WWII that he stuck on a 13' speedboat he built to race around
Long Island Sound.

Found a photo of one:

http://tinyurl.com/y9exrwyc


Don't think that's a 50 hp outboard. The spec says "3hp at 3000 RPM.


That is not the same one. That looks newer



I think Harry must have posted and referenced the wrong image. The one
he referenced was definitely *not* a fifty horsepower outboard. It had
a built-in gas tank for cripes sake. Maybe when he typed his post he
missed putting a decimal point after the "5" and meant to say "5.0
horsepower". None the less, the spec on the image he posted said "3hp
at 3000 RPM.

Following WWII outboards fell in the 1.5 hp to 25 hp range.
In 1958 OMC introduced a four cylinder, 50 hp outboard that used a
combination of Johnson designed and Evinrude designed components. The
head was aluminum (from Johnson) and the steel parts were from Evinrude.

When I was a kid I had a fascination with outboards and the horsepower
race between Mercury, Johnson and Evinrude. In those days Johnson and
Evinrude were not the same designs even though they were both owned by
OMC. They marketed different engines in different horsepower ratings.
Evinrude was considered the "higher end" motor and Johnson was the more
bare bones alternative.

Mercury usually won the horsepower rating race every year as the new
lineups were announced. Their "Tower of Power" design won most of the
races and comparisons.

On 6/4/17 7:07 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/4/2017 1:03 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 18:16:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/3/2017 5:17 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/3/17 4:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 13:32:45 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

Greg had the 1912 Evinrude, signed by Ole Evinrude himself and with
210,000 hours on it.

Funny you say that. I did have a 1924 Evinrude I got for $25 from the
same little old lady who sold me the 1974 7.5 HP merc I used on my 12'
jon boat for years. (both for $300).
I still have the 7.5 but I gave the old 'rude to a collector here. I
am sure I could have sold it for a handsome profit but this was a good
guy who appreciated it. I am sure it is restored to like new condition
by now. It is what he does.



My dad always had some really old Evinrudes in the shop, but I don't
recall what most of them were. I do remember, though, a 50 hp monster
from post WWII that he stuck on a 13' speedboat he built to race around
Long Island Sound.

Found a photo of one:

http://tinyurl.com/y9exrwyc


Don't think that's a 50 hp outboard. The spec says "3hp at 3000 RPM.


That is not the same one. That looks newer



I think Harry must have posted and referenced the wrong image. The one
he referenced was definitely *not* a fifty horsepower outboard. It had
a built-in gas tank for cripes sake. Maybe when he typed his post he
missed putting a decimal point after the "5" and meant to say "5.0
horsepower". None the less, the spec on the image he posted said "3hp
at 3000 RPM.

Following WWII outboards fell in the 1.5 hp to 25 hp range.
In 1958 OMC introduced a four cylinder, 50 hp outboard that used a
combination of Johnson designed and Evinrude designed components. The
head was aluminum (from Johnson) and the steel parts were from Evinrude.

When I was a kid I had a fascination with outboards and the horsepower
race between Mercury, Johnson and Evinrude. In those days Johnson and
Evinrude were not the same designs even though they were both owned by
OMC. They marketed different engines in different horsepower ratings.
Evinrude was considered the "higher end" motor and Johnson was the more
bare bones alternative.

Mercury usually won the horsepower rating race every year as the new
lineups were announced. Their "Tower of Power" design won most of the
races and comparisons.




I suggest you look more closely at the fuzzy specs on the photo I
posted. It is a 50 hp BIG FOUR cylinder Evinrude and "built-in" gas
tanks were common. Note the handles on the engine on both sides and
compare with the vids of the similar engine that are available.

Here's a vid of an even earlier Evinrude Big Four 50-hp outboard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXkRHtUZoQI

Merc had some engines on which it seriously underrated the output and
they sold well for lake use, but they had corrosion problems in those
days in salt water use.

On 6/4/2017 8:30 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/4/17 7:07 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/4/2017 1:03 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 18:16:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/3/2017 5:17 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/3/17 4:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 13:32:45 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

Greg had the 1912 Evinrude, signed by Ole Evinrude himself and with
210,000 hours on it.

Funny you say that. I did have a 1924 Evinrude I got for $25 from the
same little old lady who sold me the 1974 7.5 HP merc I used on my
12'
jon boat for years. (both for $300).
I still have the 7.5 but I gave the old 'rude to a collector here. I
am sure I could have sold it for a handsome profit but this was a
good
guy who appreciated it. I am sure it is restored to like new
condition
by now. It is what he does.



My dad always had some really old Evinrudes in the shop, but I don't
recall what most of them were. I do remember, though, a 50 hp monster
from post WWII that he stuck on a 13' speedboat he built to race
around
Long Island Sound.

Found a photo of one:

http://tinyurl.com/y9exrwyc


Don't think that's a 50 hp outboard. The spec says "3hp at 3000 RPM.


That is not the same one. That looks newer



I think Harry must have posted and referenced the wrong image. The
one he referenced was definitely *not* a fifty horsepower outboard.
It had
a built-in gas tank for cripes sake. Maybe when he typed his post he
missed putting a decimal point after the "5" and meant to say "5.0
horsepower". None the less, the spec on the image he posted said "3hp
at 3000 RPM.

Following WWII outboards fell in the 1.5 hp to 25 hp range.
In 1958 OMC introduced a four cylinder, 50 hp outboard that used a
combination of Johnson designed and Evinrude designed components. The
head was aluminum (from Johnson) and the steel parts were from Evinrude.

When I was a kid I had a fascination with outboards and the horsepower
race between Mercury, Johnson and Evinrude. In those days Johnson and
Evinrude were not the same designs even though they were both owned by
OMC. They marketed different engines in different horsepower ratings.
Evinrude was considered the "higher end" motor and Johnson was the
more bare bones alternative.

Mercury usually won the horsepower rating race every year as the new
lineups were announced. Their "Tower of Power" design won most of the
races and comparisons.




I suggest you look more closely at the fuzzy specs on the photo I
posted. It is a 50 hp BIG FOUR cylinder Evinrude and "built-in" gas
tanks were common. Note the handles on the engine on both sides and
compare with the vids of the similar engine that are available.

Here's a vid of an even earlier Evinrude Big Four 50-hp outboard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXkRHtUZoQI

Merc had some engines on which it seriously underrated the output and
they sold well for lake use, but they had corrosion problems in those
days in salt water use.


My apologies. I *did* look closely at the fuzzy specs ... in fact I
copied and downloaded the image using Infraview. I could swear the
second line says, "3 hp at 3000 RPM.