On Mon, 1 May 2017 20:38:47 -0400, Alex wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 5/1/2017 2:29 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 01 May 2017 13:45:27 -0400, Poco Deplorevole
wrote:

On Mon, 1 May 2017 10:16:47 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:


12:10 PMPoco Deplorevole
On Mon, 1 May 2017 09:51:41 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

So delorto evidently used the save carb for different apps,
excusing the needle and jetting. That's interesting. Using the
same CFM Venturi carburation for the wide of a genre cc engines.
I can't see it but it must have worked...

When I bought the Mille, it was jetted for the USA. Very soon after
buying it, I bought a European
jetting kit for both carbs. Also put competition pipes on it at the
same time. Turned it into a real
screamer.
....
I thought of looking up performance stuff for my v11, but I figure
it's good enough the way it is. Still comptimplating an MV though...

The pipes, jetting and K&N air filters made a hell of a difference
in the way mine ran.

Not really a motorcycle but the same sort of thing happened when I
rebuilt the "Vega" motor in my 75 Monza.
I got a distributor kit and another cam gear that changed the ignition
curve and cam timing, along with a little more compression, a little
overbore and a different carb made that a pretty fast Monza.
I am sure it would not have passed an emission inspection tho ;-)



I can understand how those modifications can make a big difference in
performance. Usually though, they are at the expense of something else.

But the K&N claims have always bothered me. My truck has the 5.4L
engine and came with single exhaust. About 4 years ago I was bored
and I had a dual exhaust system put on it just for the hell of it.
The guy who did the work assured me that I'd get better performance
and fuel economy with the dual exhaust. Bull****. Didn't change a
thing.
I then replaced the stock air filter with a K&N. Didn't change a thing.

Since then, I've replaced the dual exhaust with the original OEM
single (was getting tired of the "rumble"). I also tossed the K&N for
a stock, OEM replacement. Again, no noticeable difference in fuel
economy or performance.

Snake oil, methinks.



It's all about programming the computer these days although a K&N
sucking cooler air will help performance and fuel economy but you will
need a pipe for that. And maybe a new throttle body. And maybe a new
exhaust...

It looked like that's what Tim had found for his Jackal, at a cost of close to $1000 bucks. But hey,
all the performance improvements added together would get him about another 50% improvement in
everything!

On 5/2/2017 7:33 AM, Poco Deplorevole wrote:
On Mon, 1 May 2017 17:22:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 5/1/2017 5:01 PM, Poco Deplorevole wrote:
On Mon, 1 May 2017 16:21:35 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 5/1/2017 3:17 PM, Poco Deplorevole wrote:
On Mon, 1 May 2017 14:27:26 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 5/1/2017 2:15 PM, Tim wrote:

12:45 PMPoco Deplorevole
- show quoted text -
The pipes, jetting and K&N air filters made a hell of a difference in the way mine ran.
...

Oh yes I'm sure it would. I'm limited in mine to what I can do. Seeing mine is electronic fuel injected, anout the only things available is through Harpers, there's some "performance" mufflers. And also available is a $300.00 computer box, and that's about it..

http://www.magnumtuning.com/en/detai...zi/jackal-1100

http://www.magnumtuning.com/en/detai...zi/jackal-1100

https://store.58cycle.com/product_p/...FRYbgQodK0oD8g



Do you really think K&N air filters make a difference? I've tried them
on two different vehicles, one with a carb and one that was fuel
injected. Other than being a bit louder under full throttle, I didn't
see any performance difference. Isn't it true that a stock air filter
is designed to pass the maximum amount of air that the intake can
handle? If so, of what benefit is a K&N? They may be capable of more
air passing through them under test conditions but if the intake only
demands what a stock filter can handle, what's the point?

I don't know if the K&Ns pass more air or not. With the three changes I made to my bike it
accelerated much faster. I do know that I can dismount, clean, oil, and replace the K&Ns in about a
half hour. The stock air filter would take at least an hour just to get to it...buried under the gas
tank between frame members with tubes going everywhere.

Here's what the stock filter looks like:

https://www.harpermoto.com/images/pl...air-filter.jpg

Here's a pic showing how it's mounted, but you have to look very closely. It's under the top center
frame member, between the two side frame members, snuggled down between the two cylinders.

http://image.wikifoundry.com/image/1...3686/GW448H336

Here's the K&N installation:

http://www.spedizione.nl/wp-content/...-3-2015-41.jpg




I never tried a K&N on any of my motorcycles so I have no personal
experience. However, I was curious and ran across this explanation in a
motorcycle forum. Guy seems to know what he's talking about:



"Several years ago a bunch of BMW motorcycle enthusiasts decided to test
the claims. They dyno tested several bikes with factory air filters, K&N
filters, and NO filter, and made several runs.

There was exactly zero measurable power increase.

The claims tend to work like this:

-Factory air filter produces 1.5" H2O pressure drop.
-Wonder filter produces only 0.5" H2O pressure drop.

Wonder filter is 300% better!!!

This ignores the fact that atmospheric pressure is about 384"H2O.
Therefore a 1.5" pressure drop represents, at most, a 0.3% power loss.
If the improvement were directly proportional to pressure, then the
wonder filter might produce a 0.2% power increase, which is completely
buried in the noise of temperature variations and barometric pressure
changes. But this is not the case. Mass flow varies as the square root
of pressure drop, so that difference in pressure allows only 0.1% more
mass flow.

The actual difference is even less than that though. Because the filter
is only part of the total pressure drop between open atmosphere and the
inside of the cylinders. Most of the drop is still going to be getting
past the intake valve(s). Tuned intakes can mitigate this over narrow
rpm ranges, and this is of course where peak torque is measured, so
really sensitive measurements may pick up an improvement in peak torque,
but anywere else the pressure loss across the filter is meaningless.

My use of K&Ns on the Guzzi is purely convenience...and they're cheap. The two on their now have
lasted over 25 years. Can't bitch about that.



Understand. My problem are the claims that K&N air filters increase
horsepower and performance. By themselves, I don't buy it. If you
change your 2 barrel Carter for a 4 barrel Holley and add a K&N ... sure.

When I was 16 or 17 my first car was a '62 Ford Galaxie. It was fun to
take the air cleaner assembly completely off and floor it to hear the
roar of the air entering the intake through carb. Car didn't go any
faster. It just made more noise.



Yup. I've never read anything showing K&N performance increases except on K&N pubs or packages. On
my bike I think the jetting and open exhaust made the performance increase. And, of course, it helps
to have an HIV Positive physique, as Krause would say.



Years ago I bought a old Kawasaki "low rider" that was for sale at a
yard sale. Guy said it ran but needed some work. Took it home and got
it running, but it was rough and didn't seem like it had the performance
it should have. I think it was a 650cc twin. Anyway, after a week or
so I decided to buy a kit and rebuild the carb plus put in new plugs,
wires, etc. When I fired it up it ran totally differently. Turns out
it had only been firing on one of the two cylinders. For a smaller bike
that thing was incredibly fast.

On Tue, 2 May 2017 07:51:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 5/2/2017 7:33 AM, Poco Deplorevole wrote:
On Mon, 1 May 2017 17:22:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 5/1/2017 5:01 PM, Poco Deplorevole wrote:
On Mon, 1 May 2017 16:21:35 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 5/1/2017 3:17 PM, Poco Deplorevole wrote:
On Mon, 1 May 2017 14:27:26 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 5/1/2017 2:15 PM, Tim wrote:

12:45 PMPoco Deplorevole
- show quoted text -
The pipes, jetting and K&N air filters made a hell of a difference in the way mine ran.
...

Oh yes I'm sure it would. I'm limited in mine to what I can do. Seeing mine is electronic fuel injected, anout the only things available is through Harpers, there's some "performance" mufflers. And also available is a $300.00 computer box, and that's about it..

http://www.magnumtuning.com/en/detai...zi/jackal-1100

http://www.magnumtuning.com/en/detai...zi/jackal-1100

https://store.58cycle.com/product_p/...FRYbgQodK0oD8g



Do you really think K&N air filters make a difference? I've tried them
on two different vehicles, one with a carb and one that was fuel
injected. Other than being a bit louder under full throttle, I didn't
see any performance difference. Isn't it true that a stock air filter
is designed to pass the maximum amount of air that the intake can
handle? If so, of what benefit is a K&N? They may be capable of more
air passing through them under test conditions but if the intake only
demands what a stock filter can handle, what's the point?

I don't know if the K&Ns pass more air or not. With the three changes I made to my bike it
accelerated much faster. I do know that I can dismount, clean, oil, and replace the K&Ns in about a
half hour. The stock air filter would take at least an hour just to get to it...buried under the gas
tank between frame members with tubes going everywhere.

Here's what the stock filter looks like:

https://www.harpermoto.com/images/pl...air-filter.jpg

Here's a pic showing how it's mounted, but you have to look very closely. It's under the top center
frame member, between the two side frame members, snuggled down between the two cylinders.

http://image.wikifoundry.com/image/1...3686/GW448H336

Here's the K&N installation:

http://www.spedizione.nl/wp-content/...-3-2015-41.jpg




I never tried a K&N on any of my motorcycles so I have no personal
experience. However, I was curious and ran across this explanation in a
motorcycle forum. Guy seems to know what he's talking about:



"Several years ago a bunch of BMW motorcycle enthusiasts decided to test
the claims. They dyno tested several bikes with factory air filters, K&N
filters, and NO filter, and made several runs.

There was exactly zero measurable power increase.

The claims tend to work like this:

-Factory air filter produces 1.5" H2O pressure drop.
-Wonder filter produces only 0.5" H2O pressure drop.

Wonder filter is 300% better!!!

This ignores the fact that atmospheric pressure is about 384"H2O.
Therefore a 1.5" pressure drop represents, at most, a 0.3% power loss.
If the improvement were directly proportional to pressure, then the
wonder filter might produce a 0.2% power increase, which is completely
buried in the noise of temperature variations and barometric pressure
changes. But this is not the case. Mass flow varies as the square root
of pressure drop, so that difference in pressure allows only 0.1% more
mass flow.

The actual difference is even less than that though. Because the filter
is only part of the total pressure drop between open atmosphere and the
inside of the cylinders. Most of the drop is still going to be getting
past the intake valve(s). Tuned intakes can mitigate this over narrow
rpm ranges, and this is of course where peak torque is measured, so
really sensitive measurements may pick up an improvement in peak torque,
but anywere else the pressure loss across the filter is meaningless.

My use of K&Ns on the Guzzi is purely convenience...and they're cheap. The two on their now have
lasted over 25 years. Can't bitch about that.



Understand. My problem are the claims that K&N air filters increase
horsepower and performance. By themselves, I don't buy it. If you
change your 2 barrel Carter for a 4 barrel Holley and add a K&N ... sure.

When I was 16 or 17 my first car was a '62 Ford Galaxie. It was fun to
take the air cleaner assembly completely off and floor it to hear the
roar of the air entering the intake through carb. Car didn't go any
faster. It just made more noise.



Yup. I've never read anything showing K&N performance increases except on K&N pubs or packages. On
my bike I think the jetting and open exhaust made the performance increase. And, of course, it helps
to have an HIV Positive physique, as Krause would say.



Years ago I bought a old Kawasaki "low rider" that was for sale at a
yard sale. Guy said it ran but needed some work. Took it home and got
it running, but it was rough and didn't seem like it had the performance
it should have. I think it was a 650cc twin. Anyway, after a week or
so I decided to buy a kit and rebuild the carb plus put in new plugs,
wires, etc. When I fired it up it ran totally differently. Turns out
it had only been firing on one of the two cylinders. For a smaller bike
that thing was incredibly fast.


My wife's last Guzzi was a 650, and it would go over 100mph. 650's a good size engine. I'm thinking
seriously of a Honda Silverwing scooter, when I get older, which has a 650.

On Tue, 02 May 2017 07:33:02 -0400, Poco Deplorevole
wrote:

Yup. I've never read anything showing K&N performance increases except on K&N pubs or packages. On
my bike I think the jetting and open exhaust made the performance increase. And, of course, it helps
to have an HIV Positive physique, as Krause would say.

===

To Harree's Humpty Dumpty physique, everything looks HIV positive. I
think it's starting to catch up with him.

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On Tue, 02 May 2017 08:27:00 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 02 May 2017 07:33:02 -0400, Poco Deplorevole
wrote:

Yup. I've never read anything showing K&N performance increases except on K&N pubs or packages. On
my bike I think the jetting and open exhaust made the performance increase. And, of course, it helps
to have an HIV Positive physique, as Krause would say.

===

To Harree's Humpty Dumpty physique, everything looks HIV positive. I
think it's starting to catch up with him.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com


:)