Not to start a debate but it seems your definition of what a "Barrel
Bomb" is differs considerably from what the common definition is.
The MOAB recently used is far from being a "Barrel bomb".

Here's Wiki's definition of a barrel bomb:

"A barrel bomb is an improvised unguided bomb, sometimes described as a
flying IED (improvised explosive device). They are typically made from a
large barrel-shaped metal container that has been filled with high
explosives, possibly shrapnel, oil or chemicals as well, and then
dropped from a helicopter or airplane.[1] Due to the large amount of
explosives (up 1,000 kilograms (2,200 lb)), their poor accuracy and
indiscriminate use in populated civilian areas (including refugee
camps), the resulting detonations have been devastating.[2][3][4]
Critics have characterised them as weapons of terror and illegal under
international conventions".

I don't know why you think the MOAB use is a "barrel bomb".

On 4/15/17 7:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Not to start a debate but it seems your definition of what a "Barrel
Bomb" is differs considerably from what the common definition is.
The MOAB recently used is far from being a "Barrel bomb".

Here's Wiki's definition of a barrel bomb:

"A barrel bomb is an improvised unguided bomb, sometimes described as a
flying IED (improvised explosive device). They are typically made from a
large barrel-shaped metal container that has been filled with high
explosives, possibly shrapnel, oil or chemicals as well, and then
dropped from a helicopter or airplane.[1] Due to the large amount of
explosives (up 1,000 kilograms (2,200 lb)), their poor accuracy and
indiscriminate use in populated civilian areas (including refugee
camps), the resulting detonations have been devastating.[2][3][4]
Critics have characterised them as weapons of terror and illegal under
international conventions".

I don't know why you think the MOAB use is a "barrel bomb".

Isn't it amazing how *their* weapons are weapons of terror and our
weapons, which also kill innocent civilians, aren't. Our weapons must be
weapons of peace.

What a crock of crap you militarists try to sell.

On 4/15/2017 8:23 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 4/15/17 7:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Not to start a debate but it seems your definition of what a "Barrel
Bomb" is differs considerably from what the common definition is.
The MOAB recently used is far from being a "Barrel bomb".

Here's Wiki's definition of a barrel bomb:

"A barrel bomb is an improvised unguided bomb, sometimes described as a
flying IED (improvised explosive device). They are typically made from a
large barrel-shaped metal container that has been filled with high
explosives, possibly shrapnel, oil or chemicals as well, and then
dropped from a helicopter or airplane.[1] Due to the large amount of
explosives (up 1,000 kilograms (2,200 lb)), their poor accuracy and
indiscriminate use in populated civilian areas (including refugee
camps), the resulting detonations have been devastating.[2][3][4]
Critics have characterised them as weapons of terror and illegal under
international conventions".

I don't know why you think the MOAB use is a "barrel bomb".

Isn't it amazing how *their* weapons are weapons of terror and our
weapons, which also kill innocent civilians, aren't. Our weapons must be
weapons of peace.

What a crock of crap you militarists try to sell.


Ok. Let's just all hold hands and sing peace songs. Maybe the
terrorists and brutal dictators in the world will lose interest and join
in. That's ticket!

On 4/15/17 10:09 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/15/2017 8:23 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 4/15/17 7:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Not to start a debate but it seems your definition of what a "Barrel
Bomb" is differs considerably from what the common definition is.
The MOAB recently used is far from being a "Barrel bomb".

Here's Wiki's definition of a barrel bomb:

"A barrel bomb is an improvised unguided bomb, sometimes described as a
flying IED (improvised explosive device). They are typically made from a
large barrel-shaped metal container that has been filled with high
explosives, possibly shrapnel, oil or chemicals as well, and then
dropped from a helicopter or airplane.[1] Due to the large amount of
explosives (up 1,000 kilograms (2,200 lb)), their poor accuracy and
indiscriminate use in populated civilian areas (including refugee
camps), the resulting detonations have been devastating.[2][3][4]
Critics have characterised them as weapons of terror and illegal under
international conventions".

I don't know why you think the MOAB use is a "barrel bomb".

Isn't it amazing how *their* weapons are weapons of terror and our
weapons, which also kill innocent civilians, aren't. Our weapons must be
weapons of peace.

What a crock of crap you militarists try to sell.


Ok. Let's just all hold hands and sing peace songs. Maybe the
terrorists and brutal dictators in the world will lose interest and join
in. That's ticket!





That's not the point. We also kill lots of innocent civilians.

9:20 AMKeyser Soze
- show quoted text -
That's not the point. We also kill lots of innocent civilians.
.....

Help stop the US bombing madness Harry. Go over and volunteer to be a human shield...

On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 10:20:03 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:



That's not the point. We also kill lots of innocent civilians.

War in general tends to affect the innocents the most. The Union army
was one of the first to use that tactic in our history. WWII was the
first war where all sides intentionally targeted civilians although it
started in the Spanish Civil war with the bombing of cities. I suppose
all civil wars involve killing civilians when you get down to it.
WWII was the real turning point though. The first bombing of London is
widely believed to be an accident but after that, it was on. Terror
attacks on cities became the norm. The US put a sharp point on it when
we nuked two with minimal military value but the die was cast before
that.

On 4/15/2017 11:40 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 10:20:03 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:



That's not the point. We also kill lots of innocent civilians.

War in general tends to affect the innocents the most. The Union army
was one of the first to use that tactic in our history. WWII was the
first war where all sides intentionally targeted civilians although it
started in the Spanish Civil war with the bombing of cities. I suppose
all civil wars involve killing civilians when you get down to it.
WWII was the real turning point though. The first bombing of London is
widely believed to be an accident but after that, it was on. Terror
attacks on cities became the norm. The US put a sharp point on it when
we nuked two with minimal military value but the die was cast before
that.



My younger son and I were talking just this morning about the use of the
atomic bomb in WWII. He's a 35 year old college grad and I was really
surprised at how little he knew of some of the details of what led up to
and what was done in WWII. For his generation, this is all ancient
history. The conversation started because he told me he didn't think we
should have used the bomb on Japan.

He knew very little about what led up to Pearl Harbor. He didn't know
about oil embargos placed on the Japanese due to the horrific things
done to the Chinese by Japan. Nor was he aware of the torture done to
our own POW's during the war. The Japanese engaged in horrible war crimes.

He also didn't realize that until Roosevelt died, Truman didn't even
know of the Manhattan Project or the fact that we had developed the
bomb. He didn't know that we were only a few months ahead of Germany in
it's development.

To get an accurate and clear answer as to the use of the A-bomb on
Japan, go ask a surviving WWII vet .... or even a senior civilian who
was an adult at the time.

On 4/15/2017 10:20 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 4/15/17 10:09 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/15/2017 8:23 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 4/15/17 7:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Not to start a debate but it seems your definition of what a "Barrel
Bomb" is differs considerably from what the common definition is.
The MOAB recently used is far from being a "Barrel bomb".

Here's Wiki's definition of a barrel bomb:

"A barrel bomb is an improvised unguided bomb, sometimes described as a
flying IED (improvised explosive device). They are typically made
from a
large barrel-shaped metal container that has been filled with high
explosives, possibly shrapnel, oil or chemicals as well, and then
dropped from a helicopter or airplane.[1] Due to the large amount of
explosives (up 1,000 kilograms (2,200 lb)), their poor accuracy and
indiscriminate use in populated civilian areas (including refugee
camps), the resulting detonations have been devastating.[2][3][4]
Critics have characterised them as weapons of terror and illegal under
international conventions".

I don't know why you think the MOAB use is a "barrel bomb".

Isn't it amazing how *their* weapons are weapons of terror and our
weapons, which also kill innocent civilians, aren't. Our weapons must be
weapons of peace.

What a crock of crap you militarists try to sell.


Ok. Let's just all hold hands and sing peace songs. Maybe the
terrorists and brutal dictators in the world will lose interest and join
in. That's ticket!





That's not the point. We also kill lots of innocent civilians.


Yup. It's a sad commentary to war. The USA does it's best to avoid
collateral damage which is one reason why we almost exclusively use
precision guided munitions now-a-days. The other reason is they are
accurate, so there's a higher probability of doing the job without
having to lob hundreds of thousands of bombs to accomplish the same
thing. It's called progress.

We also don't intentionally target civilians or areas of high civilian
population. Our adversaries use this to their advantage by surrounding
their areas of operations with innocent civilians.

And then there are those who intentionally gas civilian population
areas, suffocating people including infants and then claim all the
videos made of their suffering were done by actors and produced by the
USA.

We also don't follow up an attack like that by bombing the hospital that
the injured and suffering were being treated.

Gezus. Don't you ever get disgusted by what our adversaries do? Or are
you only disgusted by what we do in retaliation ... in this case on
humanitarian grounds?

On 4/15/17 11:41 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/15/2017 10:20 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 4/15/17 10:09 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/15/2017 8:23 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 4/15/17 7:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Not to start a debate but it seems your definition of what a "Barrel
Bomb" is differs considerably from what the common definition is.
The MOAB recently used is far from being a "Barrel bomb".

Here's Wiki's definition of a barrel bomb:

"A barrel bomb is an improvised unguided bomb, sometimes described
as a
flying IED (improvised explosive device). They are typically made
from a
large barrel-shaped metal container that has been filled with high
explosives, possibly shrapnel, oil or chemicals as well, and then
dropped from a helicopter or airplane.[1] Due to the large amount of
explosives (up 1,000 kilograms (2,200 lb)), their poor accuracy and
indiscriminate use in populated civilian areas (including refugee
camps), the resulting detonations have been devastating.[2][3][4]
Critics have characterised them as weapons of terror and illegal under
international conventions".

I don't know why you think the MOAB use is a "barrel bomb".

Isn't it amazing how *their* weapons are weapons of terror and our
weapons, which also kill innocent civilians, aren't. Our weapons
must be
weapons of peace.

What a crock of crap you militarists try to sell.


Ok. Let's just all hold hands and sing peace songs. Maybe the
terrorists and brutal dictators in the world will lose interest and join
in. That's ticket!





That's not the point. We also kill lots of innocent civilians.


Yup. It's a sad commentary to war. The USA does it's best to avoid
collateral damage which is one reason why we almost exclusively use
precision guided munitions now-a-days. The other reason is they are
accurate, so there's a higher probability of doing the job without
having to lob hundreds of thousands of bombs to accomplish the same
thing. It's called progress.

We also don't intentionally target civilians or areas of high civilian
population. Our adversaries use this to their advantage by surrounding
their areas of operations with innocent civilians.

And then there are those who intentionally gas civilian population
areas, suffocating people including infants and then claim all the
videos made of their suffering were done by actors and produced by the USA.

We also don't follow up an attack like that by bombing the hospital that
the injured and suffering were being treated.

Gezus. Don't you ever get disgusted by what our adversaries do? Or are
you only disgusted by what we do in retaliation ... in this case on
humanitarian grounds?





I'm disgusted by attempts to claim the high moral ground for activities
that aren't that all different from the activities of our adversaries. I
have no moral objections to the missile attack on the Syrian air base or
the big bomb dropped on the Afghanistan tunnel...but I don't think
they'll resolve anything...they're just a waste of money and lives.

9:09 AMMr. Luddite
- show quoted text -
Ok. Let's just all hold hands and sing peace songs. Maybe the
terrorists and brutal dictators in the world will lose interest and join
in. That's ticket!

....,

Great idea! I just got a new pack of d'Adario's for my 12 string! Time to put em on.