Greg: re Barrel Bombs
 

Not to start a debate but it seems your definition of what a "Barrel
Bomb" is differs considerably from what the common definition is.
The MOAB recently used is far from being a "Barrel bomb".

Here's Wiki's definition of a barrel bomb:

"A barrel bomb is an improvised unguided bomb, sometimes described as a
flying IED (improvised explosive device). They are typically made from a
large barrel-shaped metal container that has been filled with high
explosives, possibly shrapnel, oil or chemicals as well, and then
dropped from a helicopter or airplane.[1] Due to the large amount of
explosives (up 1,000 kilograms (2,200 lb)), their poor accuracy and
indiscriminate use in populated civilian areas (including refugee
camps), the resulting detonations have been devastating.[2][3][4]
Critics have characterised them as weapons of terror and illegal under
international conventions".

I don't know why you think the MOAB use is a "barrel bomb".

Greg: re Barrel Bombs
 

On 4/15/17 7:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Not to start a debate but it seems your definition of what a "Barrel
Bomb" is differs considerably from what the common definition is.
The MOAB recently used is far from being a "Barrel bomb".

Here's Wiki's definition of a barrel bomb:

"A barrel bomb is an improvised unguided bomb, sometimes described as a
flying IED (improvised explosive device). They are typically made from a
large barrel-shaped metal container that has been filled with high
explosives, possibly shrapnel, oil or chemicals as well, and then
dropped from a helicopter or airplane.[1] Due to the large amount of
explosives (up 1,000 kilograms (2,200 lb)), their poor accuracy and
indiscriminate use in populated civilian areas (including refugee
camps), the resulting detonations have been devastating.[2][3][4]
Critics have characterised them as weapons of terror and illegal under
international conventions".

I don't know why you think the MOAB use is a "barrel bomb".

Isn't it amazing how *their* weapons are weapons of terror and our
weapons, which also kill innocent civilians, aren't. Our weapons must be
weapons of peace.

What a crock of crap you militarists try to sell.

Greg: re Barrel Bombs
 

On 4/15/2017 8:23 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 4/15/17 7:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Not to start a debate but it seems your definition of what a "Barrel
Bomb" is differs considerably from what the common definition is.
The MOAB recently used is far from being a "Barrel bomb".

Here's Wiki's definition of a barrel bomb:

"A barrel bomb is an improvised unguided bomb, sometimes described as a
flying IED (improvised explosive device). They are typically made from a
large barrel-shaped metal container that has been filled with high
explosives, possibly shrapnel, oil or chemicals as well, and then
dropped from a helicopter or airplane.[1] Due to the large amount of
explosives (up 1,000 kilograms (2,200 lb)), their poor accuracy and
indiscriminate use in populated civilian areas (including refugee
camps), the resulting detonations have been devastating.[2][3][4]
Critics have characterised them as weapons of terror and illegal under
international conventions".

I don't know why you think the MOAB use is a "barrel bomb".

Isn't it amazing how *their* weapons are weapons of terror and our
weapons, which also kill innocent civilians, aren't. Our weapons must be
weapons of peace.

What a crock of crap you militarists try to sell.


Ok. Let's just all hold hands and sing peace songs. Maybe the
terrorists and brutal dictators in the world will lose interest and join
in. That's ticket!

Greg: re Barrel Bombs
 

On 4/15/17 10:09 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/15/2017 8:23 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 4/15/17 7:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Not to start a debate but it seems your definition of what a "Barrel
Bomb" is differs considerably from what the common definition is.
The MOAB recently used is far from being a "Barrel bomb".

Here's Wiki's definition of a barrel bomb:

"A barrel bomb is an improvised unguided bomb, sometimes described as a
flying IED (improvised explosive device). They are typically made from a
large barrel-shaped metal container that has been filled with high
explosives, possibly shrapnel, oil or chemicals as well, and then
dropped from a helicopter or airplane.[1] Due to the large amount of
explosives (up 1,000 kilograms (2,200 lb)), their poor accuracy and
indiscriminate use in populated civilian areas (including refugee
camps), the resulting detonations have been devastating.[2][3][4]
Critics have characterised them as weapons of terror and illegal under
international conventions".

I don't know why you think the MOAB use is a "barrel bomb".

Isn't it amazing how *their* weapons are weapons of terror and our
weapons, which also kill innocent civilians, aren't. Our weapons must be
weapons of peace.

What a crock of crap you militarists try to sell.


Ok. Let's just all hold hands and sing peace songs. Maybe the
terrorists and brutal dictators in the world will lose interest and join
in. That's ticket!





That's not the point. We also kill lots of innocent civilians.

Greg: re Barrel Bombs
 

9:09 AMMr. Luddite
- show quoted text -
Ok. Let's just all hold hands and sing peace songs. Maybe the
terrorists and brutal dictators in the world will lose interest and join
in. That's ticket!

....,

Great idea! I just got a new pack of d'Adario's for my 12 string! Time to put em on.

Greg: re Barrel Bombs
 

9:20 AMKeyser Soze
- show quoted text -
That's not the point. We also kill lots of innocent civilians.
.....

Help stop the US bombing madness Harry. Go over and volunteer to be a human shield...

Greg: re Barrel Bombs
 

On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 07:57:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Not to start a debate but it seems your definition of what a "Barrel
Bomb" is differs considerably from what the common definition is.
The MOAB recently used is far from being a "Barrel bomb".

Here's Wiki's definition of a barrel bomb:

"A barrel bomb is an improvised unguided bomb, sometimes described as a
flying IED (improvised explosive device). They are typically made from a
large barrel-shaped metal container that has been filled with high
explosives, possibly shrapnel, oil or chemicals as well, and then
dropped from a helicopter or airplane.[1] Due to the large amount of
explosives (up 1,000 kilograms (2,200 lb)), their poor accuracy and
indiscriminate use in populated civilian areas (including refugee
camps), the resulting detonations have been devastating.[2][3][4]
Critics have characterised them as weapons of terror and illegal under
international conventions".

I don't know why you think the MOAB use is a "barrel bomb".

The only real difference I see is the MOAB has minimal shrapnel and it
has a guidance package. (except for the bloated cost) It is still a
big, brute force bomb that is little more than a large container of
explosives. Harry is right when he says when we use something it is a
precision munition weapon and when they use it, we call it a terror
weapon. Since this was developed in the "shock and awe" days, the
distinction is blurry. What is the difference between "shock and awe"
and "terror"?
I am not saying these guys don't need killing but I am not going to
sugar coat the act of doing it.

Greg: re Barrel Bombs
 

On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 10:20:03 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:



That's not the point. We also kill lots of innocent civilians.

War in general tends to affect the innocents the most. The Union army
was one of the first to use that tactic in our history. WWII was the
first war where all sides intentionally targeted civilians although it
started in the Spanish Civil war with the bombing of cities. I suppose
all civil wars involve killing civilians when you get down to it.
WWII was the real turning point though. The first bombing of London is
widely believed to be an accident but after that, it was on. Terror
attacks on cities became the norm. The US put a sharp point on it when
we nuked two with minimal military value but the die was cast before
that.

Greg: re Barrel Bombs
 

On 4/15/2017 10:20 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 4/15/17 10:09 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/15/2017 8:23 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 4/15/17 7:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Not to start a debate but it seems your definition of what a "Barrel
Bomb" is differs considerably from what the common definition is.
The MOAB recently used is far from being a "Barrel bomb".

Here's Wiki's definition of a barrel bomb:

"A barrel bomb is an improvised unguided bomb, sometimes described as a
flying IED (improvised explosive device). They are typically made
from a
large barrel-shaped metal container that has been filled with high
explosives, possibly shrapnel, oil or chemicals as well, and then
dropped from a helicopter or airplane.[1] Due to the large amount of
explosives (up 1,000 kilograms (2,200 lb)), their poor accuracy and
indiscriminate use in populated civilian areas (including refugee
camps), the resulting detonations have been devastating.[2][3][4]
Critics have characterised them as weapons of terror and illegal under
international conventions".

I don't know why you think the MOAB use is a "barrel bomb".

Isn't it amazing how *their* weapons are weapons of terror and our
weapons, which also kill innocent civilians, aren't. Our weapons must be
weapons of peace.

What a crock of crap you militarists try to sell.


Ok. Let's just all hold hands and sing peace songs. Maybe the
terrorists and brutal dictators in the world will lose interest and join
in. That's ticket!





That's not the point. We also kill lots of innocent civilians.


Yup. It's a sad commentary to war. The USA does it's best to avoid
collateral damage which is one reason why we almost exclusively use
precision guided munitions now-a-days. The other reason is they are
accurate, so there's a higher probability of doing the job without
having to lob hundreds of thousands of bombs to accomplish the same
thing. It's called progress.

We also don't intentionally target civilians or areas of high civilian
population. Our adversaries use this to their advantage by surrounding
their areas of operations with innocent civilians.

And then there are those who intentionally gas civilian population
areas, suffocating people including infants and then claim all the
videos made of their suffering were done by actors and produced by the
USA.

We also don't follow up an attack like that by bombing the hospital that
the injured and suffering were being treated.

Gezus. Don't you ever get disgusted by what our adversaries do? Or are
you only disgusted by what we do in retaliation ... in this case on
humanitarian grounds?

Greg: re Barrel Bombs
 

On 4/15/2017 10:26 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 07:57:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Not to start a debate but it seems your definition of what a "Barrel
Bomb" is differs considerably from what the common definition is.
The MOAB recently used is far from being a "Barrel bomb".

Here's Wiki's definition of a barrel bomb:

"A barrel bomb is an improvised unguided bomb, sometimes described as a
flying IED (improvised explosive device). They are typically made from a
large barrel-shaped metal container that has been filled with high
explosives, possibly shrapnel, oil or chemicals as well, and then
dropped from a helicopter or airplane.[1] Due to the large amount of
explosives (up 1,000 kilograms (2,200 lb)), their poor accuracy and
indiscriminate use in populated civilian areas (including refugee
camps), the resulting detonations have been devastating.[2][3][4]
Critics have characterised them as weapons of terror and illegal under
international conventions".

I don't know why you think the MOAB use is a "barrel bomb".

The only real difference I see is the MOAB has minimal shrapnel and it
has a guidance package. (except for the bloated cost) It is still a
big, brute force bomb that is little more than a large container of
explosives. Harry is right when he says when we use something it is a
precision munition weapon and when they use it, we call it a terror
weapon. Since this was developed in the "shock and awe" days, the
distinction is blurry. What is the difference between "shock and awe"
and "terror"?
I am not saying these guys don't need killing but I am not going to
sugar coat the act of doing it.



I suppose you have a much better solution to clearing the caves and
tunnels. Or, would you just put your head back in the sand and let them
be?

It wasn't Trump who made the decision to use a MOAB. Hell, he probably
didn't even know we had them. It was the General in charge of
operations in Afghanistan who made that decision and, according to other
experts he made the right call.

Even the Dems are reluctantly applauding it's use. We've been screwing
around playing with drones for far too long that take out a pickup truck
and a couple of dudes at a time.