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#2
posted to rec.boats
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MOAB story
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 14:55:11 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 4/15/17 2:42 PM, Poco Deplorevole wrote: On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 08:21:15 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: On 4/15/17 7:40 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/15/2017 1:20 AM, wrote: The Snooze Press (Ft Myers paper) had an interesting article about this bomb. It was developed at Eglin AFB in the pan handle and they were talking to a guy there. It turns out this is the most expensive barrel bomb I have ever heard of. These are 16 million a pop. I am not quite sure why you need precision guidance on a bomb with a 1 mile blast radius but it has it. I am still not sure why it is so expensive but it is a DoD project. The guy was saying he really expected these things to be "demilled" (scrapped) probably because they were approaching their expiration date. I suppose it was "use it or lose it" for the air force. I am still not sure how effective it actually was but since it is really a "shock and awe" weapon, I suppose we shocked someone using it. In typical fashion, the russians just packed a bigger tank with explosive and have a bigger one but I am not sure if it is guided and I know it was a lot cheaper. If you believe the Pentagon, it was the perfect weapon for the intended purpose. Apparently several attempts by Afghan forces (with American special force advisers) had been made with boots on the ground to clear the caves and tunnels of ISIS without success. They just ran through the tunnels into Pakistan. The MOAB took care of that problem. I read where the bomb killed a couple of dozen people. Big ****ing Deal. At some point, we'll just pull out of Afghanistan and stop wasting American lives and American money. Your not-so-almighty military isn't going to solve it. Thanks, Krause, I'd predicted the liberals would whine about the cost. Took you a couple days, but you didn't let me down. Indeed, Afghanistan isn't worth the price of another American soldier's life...unless, of course, it would be your life. As for the dollars we are wasting there, there is better use for them at home, rebuilding this crumbling country. It's so funny. You weren't spouting your crap a few years back. |
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#3
posted to rec.boats
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MOAB story
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 07:40:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 4/15/2017 1:20 AM, wrote: The Snooze Press (Ft Myers paper) had an interesting article about this bomb. It was developed at Eglin AFB in the pan handle and they were talking to a guy there. It turns out this is the most expensive barrel bomb I have ever heard of. These are 16 million a pop. I am not quite sure why you need precision guidance on a bomb with a 1 mile blast radius but it has it. I am still not sure why it is so expensive but it is a DoD project. The guy was saying he really expected these things to be "demilled" (scrapped) probably because they were approaching their expiration date. I suppose it was "use it or lose it" for the air force. I am still not sure how effective it actually was but since it is really a "shock and awe" weapon, I suppose we shocked someone using it. In typical fashion, the russians just packed a bigger tank with explosive and have a bigger one but I am not sure if it is guided and I know it was a lot cheaper. If you believe the Pentagon, it was the perfect weapon for the intended purpose. Apparently several attempts by Afghan forces (with American special force advisers) had been made with boots on the ground to clear the caves and tunnels of ISIS without success. They just ran through the tunnels into Pakistan. The MOAB took care of that problem. I don't believe the pentagon on much, particularly on untested weapons. When I see things like this I am reminded of the navy/marines in the Pacific in WWII. They would lob thousands of 16" shells onto islands to kill the nips in the caves, then go ashore and find out, they might be shaken up but they were still alive and shooting. Our ability to root people out of tunnels and caves has always been spotty and we always seem to come up with a new idea that doesn't really work as well as we hoped. I still think we used that one because it was coming up on it's expiration date and they knew Trump liked the idea of "biggest" anything. I am still waiting for a real BDA |
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#4
posted to rec.boats
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MOAB story
On 4/15/2017 10:36 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 07:40:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/15/2017 1:20 AM, wrote: The Snooze Press (Ft Myers paper) had an interesting article about this bomb. It was developed at Eglin AFB in the pan handle and they were talking to a guy there. It turns out this is the most expensive barrel bomb I have ever heard of. These are 16 million a pop. I am not quite sure why you need precision guidance on a bomb with a 1 mile blast radius but it has it. I am still not sure why it is so expensive but it is a DoD project. The guy was saying he really expected these things to be "demilled" (scrapped) probably because they were approaching their expiration date. I suppose it was "use it or lose it" for the air force. I am still not sure how effective it actually was but since it is really a "shock and awe" weapon, I suppose we shocked someone using it. In typical fashion, the russians just packed a bigger tank with explosive and have a bigger one but I am not sure if it is guided and I know it was a lot cheaper. If you believe the Pentagon, it was the perfect weapon for the intended purpose. Apparently several attempts by Afghan forces (with American special force advisers) had been made with boots on the ground to clear the caves and tunnels of ISIS without success. They just ran through the tunnels into Pakistan. The MOAB took care of that problem. I don't believe the pentagon on much, particularly on untested weapons. When I see things like this I am reminded of the navy/marines in the Pacific in WWII. They would lob thousands of 16" shells onto islands to kill the nips in the caves, then go ashore and find out, they might be shaken up but they were still alive and shooting. Our ability to root people out of tunnels and caves has always been spotty and we always seem to come up with a new idea that doesn't really work as well as we hoped. I still think we used that one because it was coming up on it's expiration date and they knew Trump liked the idea of "biggest" anything. I am still waiting for a real BDA You, nor I, have any idea of what the "expiration date" is on those bombs, so that's a pretty silly conclusion. It's not "untested". It was designed and tested for a specific purpose. Until now, there wasn't an appropriate target for it. You and Harry are the most cynical people I know when it comes to things like this ... or anything new. I have far more faith in what experts in the defense department think we need as options. Maybe it's because I worked with them often over the years. They are not all job protecting, resource spending bureaucrats that some people automatically assume they are. In fact, they were more interested in reducing costs, reducing unnecessary complexity and making program objectives more efficient. Even the "mil-spec" requirements for most of the electronics were dropped in favor of qualified, commercial grade components. |
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#5
posted to rec.boats
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MOAB story
On 4/15/17 11:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/15/2017 10:36 AM, wrote: On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 07:40:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/15/2017 1:20 AM, wrote: The Snooze Press (Ft Myers paper) had an interesting article about this bomb. It was developed at Eglin AFB in the pan handle and they were talking to a guy there. It turns out this is the most expensive barrel bomb I have ever heard of. These are 16 million a pop. I am not quite sure why you need precision guidance on a bomb with a 1 mile blast radius but it has it. I am still not sure why it is so expensive but it is a DoD project. The guy was saying he really expected these things to be "demilled" (scrapped) probably because they were approaching their expiration date. I suppose it was "use it or lose it" for the air force. I am still not sure how effective it actually was but since it is really a "shock and awe" weapon, I suppose we shocked someone using it. In typical fashion, the russians just packed a bigger tank with explosive and have a bigger one but I am not sure if it is guided and I know it was a lot cheaper. If you believe the Pentagon, it was the perfect weapon for the intended purpose. Apparently several attempts by Afghan forces (with American special force advisers) had been made with boots on the ground to clear the caves and tunnels of ISIS without success. They just ran through the tunnels into Pakistan. The MOAB took care of that problem. I don't believe the pentagon on much, particularly on untested weapons. When I see things like this I am reminded of the navy/marines in the Pacific in WWII. They would lob thousands of 16" shells onto islands to kill the nips in the caves, then go ashore and find out, they might be shaken up but they were still alive and shooting. Our ability to root people out of tunnels and caves has always been spotty and we always seem to come up with a new idea that doesn't really work as well as we hoped. I still think we used that one because it was coming up on it's expiration date and they knew Trump liked the idea of "biggest" anything. I am still waiting for a real BDA You, nor I, have any idea of what the "expiration date" is on those bombs, so that's a pretty silly conclusion. It's not "untested". It was designed and tested for a specific purpose. Until now, there wasn't an appropriate target for it. You and Harry are the most cynical people I know when it comes to things like this ... or anything new. I have far more faith in what experts in the defense department think we need as options. Maybe it's because I worked with them often over the years. They are not all job protecting, resource spending bureaucrats that some people automatically assume they are. In fact, they were more interested in reducing costs, reducing unnecessary complexity and making program objectives more efficient. Even the "mil-spec" requirements for most of the electronics were dropped in favor of qualified, commercial grade components. Perhaps I get my cynicism about the military from Dwight D. Eisenhower: "Every gun that is fired, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. The world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children." |
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#6
posted to rec.boats
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MOAB story
On 4/15/2017 12:30 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 4/15/17 11:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/15/2017 10:36 AM, wrote: On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 07:40:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/15/2017 1:20 AM, wrote: The Snooze Press (Ft Myers paper) had an interesting article about this bomb. It was developed at Eglin AFB in the pan handle and they were talking to a guy there. It turns out this is the most expensive barrel bomb I have ever heard of. These are 16 million a pop. I am not quite sure why you need precision guidance on a bomb with a 1 mile blast radius but it has it. I am still not sure why it is so expensive but it is a DoD project. The guy was saying he really expected these things to be "demilled" (scrapped) probably because they were approaching their expiration date. I suppose it was "use it or lose it" for the air force. I am still not sure how effective it actually was but since it is really a "shock and awe" weapon, I suppose we shocked someone using it. In typical fashion, the russians just packed a bigger tank with explosive and have a bigger one but I am not sure if it is guided and I know it was a lot cheaper. If you believe the Pentagon, it was the perfect weapon for the intended purpose. Apparently several attempts by Afghan forces (with American special force advisers) had been made with boots on the ground to clear the caves and tunnels of ISIS without success. They just ran through the tunnels into Pakistan. The MOAB took care of that problem. I don't believe the pentagon on much, particularly on untested weapons. When I see things like this I am reminded of the navy/marines in the Pacific in WWII. They would lob thousands of 16" shells onto islands to kill the nips in the caves, then go ashore and find out, they might be shaken up but they were still alive and shooting. Our ability to root people out of tunnels and caves has always been spotty and we always seem to come up with a new idea that doesn't really work as well as we hoped. I still think we used that one because it was coming up on it's expiration date and they knew Trump liked the idea of "biggest" anything. I am still waiting for a real BDA You, nor I, have any idea of what the "expiration date" is on those bombs, so that's a pretty silly conclusion. It's not "untested". It was designed and tested for a specific purpose. Until now, there wasn't an appropriate target for it. You and Harry are the most cynical people I know when it comes to things like this ... or anything new. I have far more faith in what experts in the defense department think we need as options. Maybe it's because I worked with them often over the years. They are not all job protecting, resource spending bureaucrats that some people automatically assume they are. In fact, they were more interested in reducing costs, reducing unnecessary complexity and making program objectives more efficient. Even the "mil-spec" requirements for most of the electronics were dropped in favor of qualified, commercial grade components. Perhaps I get my cynicism about the military from Dwight D. Eisenhower: "Every gun that is fired, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. The world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children." The only way to make your dreams come true is to forever ban conflicts and wars and expect everyone on the planet to honor it. How realistic is that? I think Eisenhower had that in mind when he generated your quote. It sure would be nice ... but.... |
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#7
posted to rec.boats
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MOAB story
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:27:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 4/15/2017 10:36 AM, wrote: You, nor I, have any idea of what the "expiration date" is on those bombs, so that's a pretty silly conclusion. I do have an idea about the expiration date. I was in ordinance for 6 years. They had it set at 20 years on WWII surplus and that is why we were shooting 12,000 rounds of 50 cal along with thousands of rounds of 30-06 and .45. (1965) We either shot it or threw it overboard. They also said all of our 5" ammo was going to be scrapped the next time we were in the yards but we still threw anything showing signs of "exudate" overboard. I assume storage has been more of an issue in ammo made that was not planned to be shot right away like these MOABs but the guy at Eglin said he expected these to be demilled so I am guessing they were fixin to expire. It's not "untested". It was designed and tested for a specific purpose. Until now, there wasn't an appropriate target for it. It was not tested on a real target. I don't think we have any caves we will let the pentagon destroy. Going bang in the Nevada desert is not a test of anything but the trigger device and perhaps the guidance system although a BLP round would do that You and Harry are the most cynical people I know when it comes to things like this ... or anything new. I have far more faith in what experts in the defense department think we need as options. I just have a cynical opinion whenever we are killing people and blowing stuff up "for peace". We have had 3 major wars in my 70 years, including the current one that has lasted 25 years and none of them made anything better. |
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#8
posted to rec.boats
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MOAB story
On 4/15/2017 12:48 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:27:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/15/2017 10:36 AM, wrote: You, nor I, have any idea of what the "expiration date" is on those bombs, so that's a pretty silly conclusion. I do have an idea about the expiration date. I was in ordinance for 6 years. They had it set at 20 years on WWII surplus and that is why we were shooting 12,000 rounds of 50 cal along with thousands of rounds of 30-06 and .45. (1965) We either shot it or threw it overboard. They also said all of our 5" ammo was going to be scrapped the next time we were in the yards but we still threw anything showing signs of "exudate" overboard. I assume storage has been more of an issue in ammo made that was not planned to be shot right away like these MOABs but the guy at Eglin said he expected these to be demilled so I am guessing they were fixin to expire. It's not "untested". It was designed and tested for a specific purpose. Until now, there wasn't an appropriate target for it. It was not tested on a real target. I don't think we have any caves we will let the pentagon destroy. Going bang in the Nevada desert is not a test of anything but the trigger device and perhaps the guidance system although a BLP round would do that You and Harry are the most cynical people I know when it comes to things like this ... or anything new. I have far more faith in what experts in the defense department think we need as options. I just have a cynical opinion whenever we are killing people and blowing stuff up "for peace". We have had 3 major wars in my 70 years, including the current one that has lasted 25 years and none of them made anything better. Come on Greg. A WWII vintage 5-inch shell or ammo for a .45 isn't the same as a $15M bomb (not counting development costs) that undergoes regular updating for improvements. We only built 15 of them. They aren't "throwaways". Geeze. As for wars and killing of people, it's been going on since we emerged from caves. What makes you think it's going to stop in your lifetime? It sure would be nice but it just isn't realistic. |
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