On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 07:23:07 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 2/26/17 11:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 14:05:03 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

My experience with S/A revolvers is that they are not faster to load
than a D/A revolver with a speed loader.

I guess you have never watched any of the IDPA guys.



I doubt I'll encounter one in a gunfight.

The point is if you watch the competitions you will see that even
these highly trained shooters take longer to load a revolver than a
semi auto. You also get more rounds in a magazine than a speed loader,
maybe 3x or more.



I wasn't comparing a semi auto pistol to a double action revolver.

No, you somehow translated SA into S/A.

On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 07:22:04 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 2/27/17 6:56 AM, Poco Deplorevole wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 23:18:48 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 14:05:03 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

My experience with S/A revolvers is that they are not faster to load
than a D/A revolver with a speed loader.

I guess you have never watched any of the IDPA guys.



I doubt I'll encounter one in a gunfight.

The point is if you watch the competitions you will see that even
these highly trained shooters take longer to load a revolver than a
semi auto. You also get more rounds in a magazine than a speed loader,
maybe 3x or more.

I think Harry thought you meant 'single action' when you used 'SA' way back when. Then Harry began
talking about S/A revolvers as though that's what you meant.

Surely he's not trying to say it's faster to load a revolver, even with a speed loader, than to pop
out and pop in a magazine in a SA.


I thought he was talking about single action revolvers, too. Loading a
double action revolver is faster, as is emptying the spent brass.

When I took my first firearms safety course out at a range off of Route
50 out near Dulles airport, the instructor spent a lot of time
explaining how to clear problems that arise with semi-auto
pistols...stovepipes, failures to fire, et cetera. I had a round jam
tight once in a rented Glock out at a range. I didn't want to mess with
it, so I put the pistol down, facing in the proper direction, and called
over the range officer. He was glad to take care of the problem for me.
You might have an occasional problem with a revolver, but it probably
isn't going to be because of the round.

I don't dislike semi-auto pistols, but if my life depended upon a
handgun, I'd prefer it to be a Smith & Wesson or Ruger .357 Mag double
action revolver. Pull the trigger and it is going to go bang. Knock on
plastic, I never had a problem with the .357s I've owned or just shot
from either manufacturer.

After firing a hundred or so wad cutters in the Model 28, I've had the trigger become too hard to
pull because of crud on the front of the cylinder. Scraping the crud off with a pocket knife gets it
back into business again.

Hopefully you can put down your attacker without needing a couple hundred rounds.

On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 1:31:18 PM UTC-5, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/26/17 1:05 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 11:44:16 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/26/17 11:31 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 08:09:47 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

If I wanted a 1911 clone that fired .45 ACP, I'd get one. I don't like
the pistols or the rounds much. The.357 MAGs hit harder in self-defense
situations. If I were interested in the .45 ACP round, though, I'd
consider a dual load .45 revolver, like this Ruger Redhawk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfcWPOecspQ

The problem is reliable feeding of a rimmed case in a semi auto.
Certainly there are guns that pull it off but the semi rim seems a lot
easier to feed. The flip side of that is the difficulty of chambering
a semi rim in a revolver without moon clips. Some will headspace off
the case neck but then they can be sensitive to ammo.


I understand the technicalities you are describing, but I simply prefer
shooting double action revolvers.

Revolvers are OK and have rock solid reliability as long as you are OK
with keeping them loaded and only think you will need 5 or 6 shots.
SAs a faster to load, if you store it unloaded, carry more shots and
is flatter if you CCW.
I can argue both sides ;-)
I have both. My most accurate is probably my OM Colt .38 revolver.
Most instinctive to shoot is my 1934 Barretta and in a serious social
situation I want my KP90 Ruger. I also have a Saturday Night Special
double stack Ring of Fire 9mm (Bryco/Jennings 9) that was just an
offer I could not refuse. Surprisingly, it seems to work better than I
would expect.



If I need more than six revolver shots for personal defense, then I
should have brought a rifle with hi-cap mags. One hit from the .357 MAG
rounds I use should drop a bad guy if it doesn't kill him outright.

Then why this?

"I use Hornady Critical Defense ammo in my .357 MAG revolver, six in the
cylinder and six in this speed loader."

So you're thinking you'll need 12 shots?

On 2/27/17 9:44 AM, Its Me wrote:
On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 1:31:18 PM UTC-5, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/26/17 1:05 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 11:44:16 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/26/17 11:31 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 08:09:47 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

If I wanted a 1911 clone that fired .45 ACP, I'd get one. I don't like
the pistols or the rounds much. The.357 MAGs hit harder in self-defense
situations. If I were interested in the .45 ACP round, though, I'd
consider a dual load .45 revolver, like this Ruger Redhawk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfcWPOecspQ

The problem is reliable feeding of a rimmed case in a semi auto.
Certainly there are guns that pull it off but the semi rim seems a lot
easier to feed. The flip side of that is the difficulty of chambering
a semi rim in a revolver without moon clips. Some will headspace off
the case neck but then they can be sensitive to ammo.


I understand the technicalities you are describing, but I simply prefer
shooting double action revolvers.

Revolvers are OK and have rock solid reliability as long as you are OK
with keeping them loaded and only think you will need 5 or 6 shots.
SAs a faster to load, if you store it unloaded, carry more shots and
is flatter if you CCW.
I can argue both sides ;-)
I have both. My most accurate is probably my OM Colt .38 revolver.
Most instinctive to shoot is my 1934 Barretta and in a serious social
situation I want my KP90 Ruger. I also have a Saturday Night Special
double stack Ring of Fire 9mm (Bryco/Jennings 9) that was just an
offer I could not refuse. Surprisingly, it seems to work better than I
would expect.



If I need more than six revolver shots for personal defense, then I
should have brought a rifle with hi-cap mags. One hit from the .357 MAG
rounds I use should drop a bad guy if it doesn't kill him outright.

Then why this?

"I use Hornady Critical Defense ammo in my .357 MAG revolver, six in the
cylinder and six in this speed loader."

So you're thinking you'll need 12 shots?


Cautious... I don't carry my revolver. I have a pump shotgun for home
defense, but the revolver is handy. At typical in the house distances,
the shotgun will pretty much kill or at least drop the perp with one
shot if I hit his body between the shoulders and the groin.

On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 09:52:43 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I have a pump shotgun for home
defense, but the revolver is handy. At typical in the house distances,
the shotgun will pretty much kill or at least drop the perp with one
shot if I hit his body between the shoulders and the groin.

.... Assuming the perp doesn't take it away from you.
I still never understood why they think an untrained person trying to
maneuver over 2 feet of gun around in the confines of a house is
better than a handgun. I do understand they are harder hitting, if you
actually hit anything. There certainly is not going to be much of a
pattern at typical home distances, even with an 18" cylinder bore.
It is all academic in Maryland anyway. If you shoot someone, you are
probably going to jail. It is an "obligation to retreat" state, even
inside your home. You are legally obligated to run away, it there is
any chance at all of you having a way out. In that regard a single
shot .22 may be as good as an M60 because you have to justify every
round from scratch. Oh and don't get too carried away defending
yourself with your bare hands. Each punch is the same way. The first
punch may be self defense but the second could be aggravated assault
.... or murder. I know a guy who found that out the hard way.

On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 10:47:04 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 09:52:43 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I have a pump shotgun for home
defense, but the revolver is handy. At typical in the house distances,
the shotgun will pretty much kill or at least drop the perp with one
shot if I hit his body between the shoulders and the groin.

... Assuming the perp doesn't take it away from you.
I still never understood why they think an untrained person trying to
maneuver over 2 feet of gun around in the confines of a house is
better than a handgun. I do understand they are harder hitting, if you
actually hit anything. There certainly is not going to be much of a
pattern at typical home distances, even with an 18" cylinder bore.
It is all academic in Maryland anyway. If you shoot someone, you are
probably going to jail. It is an "obligation to retreat" state, even
inside your home. You are legally obligated to run away, it there is
any chance at all of you having a way out. In that regard a single
shot .22 may be as good as an M60 because you have to justify every
round from scratch. Oh and don't get too carried away defending
yourself with your bare hands. Each punch is the same way. The first
punch may be self defense but the second could be aggravated assault
... or murder. I know a guy who found that out the hard way.

Harry could run and hide in the creek back behind his house where the owls hang out. or hide under
the hay in his Maryland Red Barn.

wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 09:52:43 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I have a pump shotgun for home
defense, but the revolver is handy. At typical in the house distances,
the shotgun will pretty much kill or at least drop the perp with one
shot if I hit his body between the shoulders and the groin.

... Assuming the perp doesn't take it away from you.
I still never understood why they think an untrained person trying to
maneuver over 2 feet of gun around in the confines of a house is
better than a handgun. I do understand they are harder hitting, if you
actually hit anything. There certainly is not going to be much of a
pattern at typical home distances, even with an 18" cylinder bore.
It is all academic in Maryland anyway. If you shoot someone, you are
probably going to jail. It is an "obligation to retreat" state, even
inside your home. You are legally obligated to run away, it there is
any chance at all of you having a way out. In that regard a single
shot .22 may be as good as an M60 because you have to justify every
round from scratch. Oh and don't get too carried away defending
yourself with your bare hands. Each punch is the same way. The first
punch may be self defense but the second could be aggravated assault
... or murder. I know a guy who found that out the hard way.


About the only shotgun good for home defense would be an Ithaca auto and
burglar shotgun. But you would need a tax stamp for it, and not made since
the 30's. Otherwise, the barrel is going to hit s door jam or wall, if you
are trying to move through the house. Otherwise, great behind the bed,
lights on, and point the weapon at the door. If the intruder does not run,
and enters then shoot. In Maryland, probably would qualify as retreating
as far as you could.

On 2/27/17 10:47 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 09:52:43 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I have a pump shotgun for home
defense, but the revolver is handy. At typical in the house distances,
the shotgun will pretty much kill or at least drop the perp with one
shot if I hit his body between the shoulders and the groin.

... Assuming the perp doesn't take it away from you.
I still never understood why they think an untrained person trying to
maneuver over 2 feet of gun around in the confines of a house is
better than a handgun. I do understand they are harder hitting, if you
actually hit anything. There certainly is not going to be much of a
pattern at typical home distances, even with an 18" cylinder bore.
It is all academic in Maryland anyway. If you shoot someone, you are
probably going to jail. It is an "obligation to retreat" state, even
inside your home. You are legally obligated to run away, it there is
any chance at all of you having a way out. In that regard a single
shot .22 may be as good as an M60 because you have to justify every
round from scratch. Oh and don't get too carried away defending
yourself with your bare hands. Each punch is the same way. The first
punch may be self defense but the second could be aggravated assault
... or murder. I know a guy who found that out the hard way.

We've had this conversation previously, and two or three times I've told
you I've talked to both the county prosecutor and the sheriff. This was
quite a few years ago. In this house, as in many houses, there is no
place to retreat to if you are in a bedroom. There have been a couple of
home invasion type incidents I recall in which the house's occupants
took out the invaders and there was no prosecution. While Maryland isn't
Florida, where you can shoot to kill at will and get away with it, we do
allow people to defend themselves in their homes.

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 12:19:23 PM UTC-8, True North wrote:
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

In Krauses's case better make that 12 by 12