Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

1:02 PMKeyser Soze
- show quoted text -
If I really wanted a big scaffold, Tim, I wouldn't be contacting you for
the job. Mellow out.
......

Harry it's not proper to back out of a deal. Don't you agree?

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On 9/12/16 2:52 PM, Tim wrote:

1:02 PMKeyser Soze
- show quoted text -
If I really wanted a big scaffold, Tim, I wouldn't be contacting you for
the job. Mellow out.
.....

Harry it's not proper to back out of a deal. Don't you agree?


Ask your boy, Donald Trump.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

1:56 PMKeyser Soze
- hide quoted text -
On 9/12/16 2:52 PM, Tim wrote:

1:02 PMKeyser Soze
- show quoted text -
If I really wanted a big scaffold, Tim, I wouldn't be contacting you for
the job. Mellow out.
.....

Harry it's not proper to back out of a deal. Don't you agree?


Ask your boy, Donald Trump.

---

Don't you mean *your* boy? You talk about him more than anyone here. And concerning you re-negging a deal, maybe he's your mentor?

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On 9/12/16 3:27 PM, Tim wrote:

1:56 PMKeyser Soze
- hide quoted text -
On 9/12/16 2:52 PM, Tim wrote:

1:02 PMKeyser Soze
- show quoted text -
If I really wanted a big scaffold, Tim, I wouldn't be contacting you for
the job. Mellow out.
.....

Harry it's not proper to back out of a deal. Don't you agree?


Ask your boy, Donald Trump.

---

Don't you mean *your* boy? You talk about him more than anyone here. And concerning you re-negging a deal, maybe he's your mentor?



You couldn't possibly be as dense as your post makes you sound. Could you?

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

3:08 PMKeyser Soze
- show quoted text -
You couldn't possibly be as dense as your post makes you sound. Could you?
.....

No more dense than yours...

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15–20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30–40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years, depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.


Does not take 4 years. Fact is with an engineering degree, I can get a
general contractors license with one year of experience.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:12 PM, Califbill wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 08:35:15 -0400, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 07:56:38 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.

Thank God for the well-educated engineers making the blueprints easy
enough to follow, eh?

===

And the project engineers/managers who track the work in progress.


When I was a kid, my father build a block front to his machine shop. The
union brick layers picketed until they hired them. They lasted one day.
They started mortar in the morning and just added to it during the day.
That evening a light rain and the wall they built collapsed. Yup, union
brick layers are highly trained.


Bull****.


Nope. Happened.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

Poquito Loco wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 12:23:44 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 9/12/16 12:12 PM, Califbill wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 08:35:15 -0400, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 07:56:38 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.

Thank God for the well-educated engineers making the blueprints easy
enough to follow, eh?

===

And the project engineers/managers who track the work in progress.


When I was a kid, my father build a block front to his machine shop. The
union brick layers picketed until they hired them. They lasted one day.
They started mortar in the morning and just added to it during the day.
That evening a light rain and the wall they built collapsed. Yup, union
brick layers are highly trained.


Bull****.

Now you're saying they're *not* highly trained?


They were "highly trained". Probably on drinking and paying off the union
rep.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15–20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30–40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years, depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.


Does not take 4 years. Fact is with an engineering degree, I can get a
general contractors license with one year of experience.


And build what? Roofs to fall off of?

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:12 PM, Califbill wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 08:35:15 -0400, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 07:56:38 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.

Thank God for the well-educated engineers making the blueprints easy
enough to follow, eh?

===

And the project engineers/managers who track the work in progress.


When I was a kid, my father build a block front to his machine shop. The
union brick layers picketed until they hired them. They lasted one day.
They started mortar in the morning and just added to it during the day.
That evening a light rain and the wall they built collapsed. Yup, union
brick layers are highly trained.


Bull****.


Nope. Happened.


Sorry, but without a URL to prove it, according to several of the
Deplorables here, it ever happened.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15–20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30–40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years, depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.


Does not take 4 years. Fact is with an engineering degree, I can get a
general contractors license with one year of experience.


And build what? Roofs to fall off of?



Hire a drunk union carpenter to fall.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:12 PM, Califbill wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 08:35:15 -0400, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 07:56:38 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.

Thank God for the well-educated engineers making the blueprints easy
enough to follow, eh?

===

And the project engineers/managers who track the work in progress.


When I was a kid, my father build a block front to his machine shop. The
union brick layers picketed until they hired them. They lasted one day.
They started mortar in the morning and just added to it during the day.
That evening a light rain and the wall they built collapsed. Yup, union
brick layers are highly trained.


Bull****.


Nope. Happened.


Sorry, but without a URL to prove it, according to several of the
Deplorables here, it ever happened.


Where is the url to your boat?

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

Where is the url to your boat?

Boom!

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 8:33:04 PM UTC-5, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:12 PM, Califbill wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 08:35:15 -0400, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 07:56:38 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.

Thank God for the well-educated engineers making the blueprints easy
enough to follow, eh?

===

And the project engineers/managers who track the work in progress.


When I was a kid, my father build a block front to his machine shop. The
union brick layers picketed until they hired them. They lasted one day.
They started mortar in the morning and just added to it during the day.
That evening a light rain and the wall they built collapsed. Yup, union
brick layers are highly trained.


Bull****.


Nope. Happened.


Sorry, but without a URL to prove it, according to several of the
Deplorables here, it ever happened.

Type much?

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 21:50:40 -0500, Califbill wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:12 PM, Califbill wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 08:35:15 -0400, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 07:56:38 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.

Thank God for the well-educated engineers making the blueprints easy
enough to follow, eh?

===

And the project engineers/managers who track the work in progress.


When I was a kid, my father build a block front to his machine shop. The
union brick layers picketed until they hired them. They lasted one day.
They started mortar in the morning and just added to it during the day.
That evening a light rain and the wall they built collapsed. Yup, union
brick layers are highly trained.


Bull****.


Nope. Happened.


Sorry, but without a URL to prove it, according to several of the
Deplorables here, it ever happened.


Where is the url to your boat?

WHOA!

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On 9/12/16 10:50 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15–20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30–40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years, depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.


Does not take 4 years. Fact is with an engineering degree, I can get a
general contractors license with one year of experience.


And build what? Roofs to fall off of?



Hire a drunk union carpenter to fall.


Well, the first part of your statement might explain why you fell off
that roof...you were drunk.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 10:50 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15–20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30–40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years, depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.


Does not take 4 years. Fact is with an engineering degree, I can get a
general contractors license with one year of experience.


And build what? Roofs to fall off of?



Hire a drunk union carpenter to fall.


Well, the first part of your statement might explain why you fell off
that roof...you were drunk.


Might, but have not been drunk for over 40 years. Group went out after a
class.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 10:57:27 -0500, Califbill wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 10:50 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15–20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30–40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years, depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.


Does not take 4 years. Fact is with an engineering degree, I can get a
general contractors license with one year of experience.


And build what? Roofs to fall off of?



Hire a drunk union carpenter to fall.


Well, the first part of your statement might explain why you fell off
that roof...you were drunk.


Might, but have not been drunk for over 40 years. Group went out after a
class.

Harry and Donnie have been telling that lie for years. Don't know why, but they must get a charge
out of making up lies. Part of narcissism, I suppose.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

Poquito Loco wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 10:57:27 -0500, Califbill wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 10:50 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15–20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30–40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years, depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.


Does not take 4 years. Fact is with an engineering degree, I can get a
general contractors license with one year of experience.


And build what? Roofs to fall off of?



Hire a drunk union carpenter to fall.


Well, the first part of your statement might explain why you fell off
that roof...you were drunk.


Might, but have not been drunk for over 40 years. Group went out after a
class.

Harry and Donnie have been telling that lie for years. Don't know why,
but they must get a charge
out of making up lies. Part of narcissism, I suppose.


Guilt at their own failings.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On 9/13/16 4:41 PM, Califbill wrote:
Poquito Loco wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 10:57:27 -0500, Califbill wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 10:50 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15–20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30–40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years, depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.


Does not take 4 years. Fact is with an engineering degree, I can get a
general contractors license with one year of experience.


And build what? Roofs to fall off of?



Hire a drunk union carpenter to fall.


Well, the first part of your statement might explain why you fell off
that roof...you were drunk.


Might, but have not been drunk for over 40 years. Group went out after a
class.

Harry and Donnie have been telling that lie for years. Don't know why,
but they must get a charge
out of making up lies. Part of narcissism, I suppose.


Guilt at their own failings.


Frankly, Bilious, this newsgroup has gotten so right-wing, disgusting,
full of racists and other deplorables that even I can barely tolerate
it, so I am sure I'll be moving on soon and leaving you boys to wallow
in your own feces, ****, and vomit. The Facebook groups in which I
participate aren't filled with bigoted posters who can't get erections
except via their own snarkiness.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 18:53:39 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 9/13/16 4:41 PM, Califbill wrote:
Poquito Loco wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 10:57:27 -0500, Califbill wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 10:50 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15?20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30?40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years, depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.


Does not take 4 years. Fact is with an engineering degree, I can get a
general contractors license with one year of experience.


And build what? Roofs to fall off of?



Hire a drunk union carpenter to fall.


Well, the first part of your statement might explain why you fell off
that roof...you were drunk.


Might, but have not been drunk for over 40 years. Group went out after a
class.

Harry and Donnie have been telling that lie for years. Don't know why,
but they must get a charge
out of making up lies. Part of narcissism, I suppose.


Guilt at their own failings.


Frankly, Bilious, this newsgroup has gotten so right-wing, disgusting,
full of racists and other deplorables that even I can barely tolerate
it, so I am sure I'll be moving on soon and leaving you boys to wallow
in your own feces, ****, and vomit. The Facebook groups in which I
participate aren't filled with bigoted posters who can't get erections
except via their own snarkiness.

Don't let the door, etc.

How many groups have you been kicked out of because of your smarminess, Krause? More than anyone
else here, I'd wager.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/13/16 4:41 PM, Califbill wrote:
Poquito Loco wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 10:57:27 -0500, Califbill wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 10:50 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15–20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30–40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years, depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.


Does not take 4 years. Fact is with an engineering degree, I can get a
general contractors license with one year of experience.


And build what? Roofs to fall off of?



Hire a drunk union carpenter to fall.


Well, the first part of your statement might explain why you fell off
that roof...you were drunk.


Might, but have not been drunk for over 40 years. Group went out after a
class.

Harry and Donnie have been telling that lie for years. Don't know why,
but they must get a charge
out of making up lies. Part of narcissism, I suppose.


Guilt at their own failings.


Frankly, Bilious, this newsgroup has gotten so right-wing, disgusting,
full of racists and other deplorables that even I can barely tolerate
it, so I am sure I'll be moving on soon and leaving you boys to wallow
in your own feces, ****, and vomit. The Facebook groups in which I
participate aren't filled with bigoted posters who can't get erections
except via their own snarkiness.



You are bigoted, and so full of ****, is a wonder you do not explode. This
newsgroup is pretty middle of the road, except for 1 or 2. And I doubt
like hell you ever willfully quit posting.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/13/16 4:41 PM, Califbill wrote:
Poquito Loco wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 10:57:27 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 10:50 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze

wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four
years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training?
Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4
years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who
can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but
technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing
oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built
houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and
building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a
nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get
back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of
skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He
was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not
spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story
building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or
weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for
36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4
year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40
hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the
skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical
training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to
build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a
house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through
Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft
throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices
receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the
job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which
increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which
typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate
to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified
members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation
through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15–20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30–40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years,
depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships
throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have
ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.


Does not take 4 years. Fact is with an engineering degree, I
can get a
general contractors license with one year of experience.


And build what? Roofs to fall off of?



Hire a drunk union carpenter to fall.


Well, the first part of your statement might explain why you fell off
that roof...you were drunk.


Might, but have not been drunk for over 40 years. Group went out
after a
class.

Harry and Donnie have been telling that lie for years. Don't know why,
but they must get a charge
out of making up lies. Part of narcissism, I suppose.


Guilt at their own failings.


Frankly, Bilious, this newsgroup has gotten so right-wing, disgusting,
full of racists and other deplorables that even I can barely tolerate
it, so I am sure I'll be moving on soon and leaving you boys to wallow
in your own feces, ****, and vomit. The Facebook groups in which I
participate aren't filled with bigoted posters who can't get erections
except via their own snarkiness.


Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On 9/13/16 7:39 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/13/16 4:41 PM, Califbill wrote:
Poquito Loco wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 10:57:27 -0500, Califbill wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 10:50 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15–20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30–40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years, depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.


Does not take 4 years. Fact is with an engineering degree, I can get a
general contractors license with one year of experience.


And build what? Roofs to fall off of?



Hire a drunk union carpenter to fall.


Well, the first part of your statement might explain why you fell off
that roof...you were drunk.


Might, but have not been drunk for over 40 years. Group went out after a
class.

Harry and Donnie have been telling that lie for years. Don't know why,
but they must get a charge
out of making up lies. Part of narcissism, I suppose.


Guilt at their own failings.


Frankly, Bilious, this newsgroup has gotten so right-wing, disgusting,
full of racists and other deplorables that even I can barely tolerate
it, so I am sure I'll be moving on soon and leaving you boys to wallow
in your own feces, ****, and vomit. The Facebook groups in which I
participate aren't filled with bigoted posters who can't get erections
except via their own snarkiness.



You are bigoted, and so full of ****, is a wonder you do not explode. This
newsgroup is pretty middle of the road, except for 1 or 2. And I doubt
like hell you ever willfully quit posting.


Sorry, Bilious, but I am not bigoted towards anyone because of their
race, skin color, ethnicity, country of origin, gender, age, et cetera.
These are the aspects of humanity people are born with and over which
they have no or very little control. I am not a fan of those who claim
to be religious but act and speak as if they aren't, and I have little
use for many of today's Republicans, who are, indeed, deplorable, but
that doesn't mean I would discriminate against them in commerce.

As for the overwhelming number of posters here being "middle of the
road," well, I find that to be hilarious bull****.

There's very little here, Bilious, and most of what is posted is TDC.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 18:53:39 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

Frankly, Bilious, this newsgroup has gotten so right-wing, disgusting,
full of racists and other deplorables that even I can barely tolerate
it, so I am sure I'll be moving on soon and leaving you boys to wallow
in your own feces, ****, and vomit.

===

I'd be glad to help you out.

Which way did you come in?

Frankly I don't think you could tear yourself away. Please prove me
wrong.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/13/16 7:39 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/13/16 4:41 PM, Califbill wrote:
Poquito Loco wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 10:57:27 -0500, Califbill wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 10:50 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15–20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30–40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years, depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.


Does not take 4 years. Fact is with an engineering degree, I can get a
general contractors license with one year of experience.


And build what? Roofs to fall off of?



Hire a drunk union carpenter to fall.


Well, the first part of your statement might explain why you fell off
that roof...you were drunk.


Might, but have not been drunk for over 40 years. Group went out after a
class.

Harry and Donnie have been telling that lie for years. Don't know why,
but they must get a charge
out of making up lies. Part of narcissism, I suppose.


Guilt at their own failings.


Frankly, Bilious, this newsgroup has gotten so right-wing, disgusting,
full of racists and other deplorables that even I can barely tolerate
it, so I am sure I'll be moving on soon and leaving you boys to wallow
in your own feces, ****, and vomit. The Facebook groups in which I
participate aren't filled with bigoted posters who can't get erections
except via their own snarkiness.



You are bigoted, and so full of ****, is a wonder you do not explode. This
newsgroup is pretty middle of the road, except for 1 or 2. And I doubt
like hell you ever willfully quit posting.


Sorry, Bilious, but I am not bigoted towards anyone because of their
race, skin color, ethnicity, country of origin, gender, age, et cetera.
These are the aspects of humanity people are born with and over which
they have no or very little control. I am not a fan of those who claim
to be religious but act and speak as if they aren't, and I have little
use for many of today's Republicans, who are, indeed, deplorable, but
that doesn't mean I would discriminate against them in commerce.

As for the overwhelming number of posters here being "middle of the
road," well, I find that to be hilarious bull****.

There's very little here, Bilious, and most of what is posted is TDC.


What crock of bovine excrement. You would not know middle of the road,
with a double yellow line marking it.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 5:53:42 PM UTC-5, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/13/16 4:41 PM, Califbill wrote:
Poquito Loco wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 10:57:27 -0500, Califbill wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 10:50 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15–20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30–40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years, depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.


Does not take 4 years. Fact is with an engineering degree, I can get a
general contractors license with one year of experience.


And build what? Roofs to fall off of?



Hire a drunk union carpenter to fall.


Well, the first part of your statement might explain why you fell off
that roof...you were drunk.


Might, but have not been drunk for over 40 years. Group went out after a
class.

Harry and Donnie have been telling that lie for years. Don't know why,
but they must get a charge
out of making up lies. Part of narcissism, I suppose.


Guilt at their own failings.


Frankly, Bilious, this newsgroup has gotten so right-wing, disgusting,
full of racists and other deplorables that even I can barely tolerate
it, so I am sure I'll be moving on soon and leaving you boys to wallow
in your own feces, ****, and vomit.

No Krause. You're like a fart in a telephone booth. You'll be hanging around for a long time to come.


The Facebook groups in which I
participate aren't filled with bigoted posters who can't get erections
except via their own snarkiness.

And now you're complaining because your Facebook groups aren't filled with "bigoted posters who can't get erections except via their own snarkiness?"

The follow your own advice and offer them reach-arounds, that you so fondly boast of.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 10:23:34 PM UTC-5, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/13/16 7:39 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/13/16 4:41 PM, Califbill wrote:
Poquito Loco wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 10:57:27 -0500, Califbill wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 10:50 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15–20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30–40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years, depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.


Does not take 4 years. Fact is with an engineering degree, I can get a
general contractors license with one year of experience.


And build what? Roofs to fall off of?



Hire a drunk union carpenter to fall.


Well, the first part of your statement might explain why you fell off
that roof...you were drunk.


Might, but have not been drunk for over 40 years. Group went out after a
class.

Harry and Donnie have been telling that lie for years. Don't know why,
but they must get a charge
out of making up lies. Part of narcissism, I suppose.


Guilt at their own failings.


Frankly, Bilious, this newsgroup has gotten so right-wing, disgusting,
full of racists and other deplorables that even I can barely tolerate
it, so I am sure I'll be moving on soon and leaving you boys to wallow
in your own feces, ****, and vomit. The Facebook groups in which I
participate aren't filled with bigoted posters who can't get erections
except via their own snarkiness.



You are bigoted, and so full of ****, is a wonder you do not explode. This
newsgroup is pretty middle of the road, except for 1 or 2. And I doubt
like hell you ever willfully quit posting.


Sorry, Bilious, but I am not bigoted towards anyone because of their
race, skin color, ethnicity, country of origin, gender, age, et cetera.
These are the aspects of humanity people are born with and over which
they have no or very little control. I am not a fan of those who claim
to be religious but act and speak as if they aren't, and I have little
use for many of today's Republicans, who are, indeed, deplorable, but
that doesn't mean I would discriminate against them in commerce.

As for the overwhelming number of posters here being "middle of the
road," well, I find that to be hilarious bull****.

There's very little here, Bilious, and most of what is posted is TDC.


What crock of bovine excrement. You would not know middle of the road,
with a double yellow line marking it.

The only yellow line he recognizes is that streak up the crack of his Depends.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 8:32:56 PM UTC-7, Tom Nofinger wrote:
On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 10:23:34 PM UTC-5, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/13/16 7:39 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/13/16 4:41 PM, Califbill wrote:
Poquito Loco wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 10:57:27 -0500, Califbill wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 10:50 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15–20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30–40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years, depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.


Does not take 4 years. Fact is with an engineering degree, I can get a
general contractors license with one year of experience.


And build what? Roofs to fall off of?



Hire a drunk union carpenter to fall.


Well, the first part of your statement might explain why you fell off
that roof...you were drunk.


Might, but have not been drunk for over 40 years. Group went out after a
class.

Harry and Donnie have been telling that lie for years. Don't know why,
but they must get a charge
out of making up lies. Part of narcissism, I suppose.


Guilt at their own failings.


Frankly, Bilious, this newsgroup has gotten so right-wing, disgusting,
full of racists and other deplorables that even I can barely tolerate
it, so I am sure I'll be moving on soon and leaving you boys to wallow
in your own feces, ****, and vomit. The Facebook groups in which I
participate aren't filled with bigoted posters who can't get erections
except via their own snarkiness.



You are bigoted, and so full of ****, is a wonder you do not explode.. This
newsgroup is pretty middle of the road, except for 1 or 2. And I doubt
like hell you ever willfully quit posting.


Sorry, Bilious, but I am not bigoted towards anyone because of their
race, skin color, ethnicity, country of origin, gender, age, et cetera.
These are the aspects of humanity people are born with and over which
they have no or very little control. I am not a fan of those who claim
to be religious but act and speak as if they aren't, and I have little
use for many of today's Republicans, who are, indeed, deplorable, but
that doesn't mean I would discriminate against them in commerce.

As for the overwhelming number of posters here being "middle of the
road," well, I find that to be hilarious bull****.

There's very little here, Bilious, and most of what is posted is TDC.


What crock of bovine excrement. You would not know middle of the road,
with a double yellow line marking it.

The only yellow line he recognizes is that streak up the crack of his Depends.

I think the Dr Dr Dr calls it his Assrag

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

Sep 13Tom Nofinger
- show quoted text -
No Krause. You're like a fart in a telephone booth. You'll be hanging around for a long time to come.

......


Fart in a phone booth. LOL! I haven't heard that in years...

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 07:56:38 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.

I did not say "2 weeks" I said "not 4 years" but why let the facts get
in the way of a Harry rant.
In that 60 story office building most of the people working there are
going to be doing repetitive low skill jobs. When I was working for
the state we were not doing any stick built residential, it was all
commercial and stick built is actually pretty rare around here anyway.
That is a northern thing. Houses are typically CBS. By the time you
put in all of the connectors to hold the "sticks" together, it is
cheaper to go in with concrete block.
Block is being replaced with ICF so the block stackers may find their
jobs in danger too, although laying block is not high skill.
You seem to be fascinated by guys who weld pipes in nuke plants but
that is your typical diversion.
Robots weld better than people and we haven't built a new nuke plant
since the Carter administration.
It is still true that technology is dumbing down just about all of the
trades. I am also not saying there are not skills needed but I do
think "4 years" is ridiculous for most of them if the person is much
smarter than a fruit fly. To start with, different people learn at
different speeds but the union is locked into a set schedule.
Universities have the same problem. They have it dumbed down to the
speed of the dumbest person and then pad that up with extra time
anyway. It happens any time you pay by the hour and not the job.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 11:02:07 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR.

Yikes, the longest mainframe school I ever went to was 8 weeks. They
sent you back to the field for a while, then you went back for a more
advanced course. Once you got a feel for the culture of the various
families, (Endicott, Kingston or Rochester) you usually did not need
much additional education to figure that stuff out anyway. If you were
trained on a 168, it wasn't hard to figure out what a 3033 or a 3090
was doing. The Rochester machines were even more so. If you understood
any AS/400, you understood them all. The hardware may have been
different but the maintenance package was the same and they all ran
the same software.
When I moved to Florida I waived training on about 400 boxes because
the technology of virtually all of the "industry systems" (ATMs, Cash
registers, teller terminals etc) was robbed from the UC.5 support
processor we had been using on Endicott mainframes for over a decade.
The rest was just belts, pulleys and wheels. Same with the 3890 check
sorter. It took me a few weeks to get a feel for the ink ****er and
some of the adjustments on the feed but it is just a paper pusher, run
by a 360/25 processor and I was a region specialist on the 25.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 11:12:55 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 08:35:15 -0400, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 07:56:38 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.

Thank God for the well-educated engineers making the blueprints easy enough to follow, eh?

===

And the project engineers/managers who track the work in progress.


When I was a kid, my father build a block front to his machine shop. The
union brick layers picketed until they hired them. They lasted one day.
They started mortar in the morning and just added to it during the day.
That evening a light rain and the wall they built collapsed. Yup, union
brick layers are highly trained.

When I built the addition in Maryland I hired union type bricklayers
to do the veneer on the front because they are fast and do a good job
but they were working off the books for cash. The block and concrete
guy I used was just a good old boy who used to be in the union but he
went off on his own. His kid took over the business as a non-union
shop. He was learning the job at the time and I was following along. I
got to be a pretty good block guy after about a week but I am slow. I
know how to square up the job, lay the corner piers and lay block to
the line.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 10:46:09 -0700 (PDT), Its Me
wrote:


NYC? Haha... that has to be the most tightly union controlled place on the planet. When we shipped equipment into the city, we had to have it off-loaded outside the city to a union driven truck for it to be accepted for delivery at the site. I had to point at connection points in a wiring frame so a union guy could connect the test equipment. Then he'd hand it to me so I could run the test, then I'd hand it back to him with instructions on where to connect it next, just because I wasn't allowed to touch the wiring frame. All because "they'd worked hard to secure their jobs, and they were going to protect them", or some such BS. The guy couldn't do my job, but it took him, the steward overlooking us, and me to do what I could do by myself.

I do have to say the guys ran the wiring very neatly. Too bad it was full of wiring errors I had to identify and tell them how to correct.

No, Chicago has New York beat. The IBEW managed to totally ban non
metallic wiring methods for 70 years. You even had to run wire in
metal pipe in 1 and 2 family. They have backed off a little but it is
still very restrictive.
When I was in the Ed Center in Chicago as a temp instructor we wanted
to move some machines around. I just started pulling floor tiles and
dropping cables. The ed center manager freaked out. We needed to call
in a few IBEW members to watch. They sat there drinking $25 an hour
coffee (in the early 80s) while we did all the work but they had to be
there. There is no way we would actually let them under our covers.
They used to let them pull the cables but they broke too many so we
needed as many feather bedders as we had people doing the work. If
someone just came over and touched a cable, we needed to bring in
another electrician. When I asked "why even let them know we did it",
they told me the union cleaners or other maintenance people would rat
them out and they would strike the whole building.
Maybe that idiocy helped to form my negative image of unions. Bear in
mind I grew up in the shadow of the Teamsters international.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 13:46:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 9/12/16 1:34 PM, Tim wrote:
11:34 AMKeyser Soze
- show quoted text -
Oh, a 12-story one would be fine. Then you could burn it in a bonfire
bluegrass music festival for your area's deplorables.
.....

Why would you want to pay to have a 12 story wooden scaffold built for you just to be burnt? That sounds like something government would do..,


I didn't say I wanted it. I thought it would be a fine attraction to
burn at *your* next local outdoor camper bluegrass concert for the
deplorables.
I rented a rolling scaffold platform a few months ago to make the job of
painting the walls and ceiling of our garage easier. It's a 12' ceiling
and it was a lot easier and faster to work from a raise-able scaffold
platform than from a ladder.

Why didn't you just get a man lift? The articulated ones are really
cool. I used one to cut down a big tree. Everything happened below me
so I felt very safe the whole time.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On 9/14/2016 11:37 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 07:56:38 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.

I did not say "2 weeks" I said "not 4 years" but why let the facts get
in the way of a Harry rant.
In that 60 story office building most of the people working there are
going to be doing repetitive low skill jobs. When I was working for
the state we were not doing any stick built residential, it was all
commercial and stick built is actually pretty rare around here anyway.
That is a northern thing. Houses are typically CBS. By the time you
put in all of the connectors to hold the "sticks" together, it is
cheaper to go in with concrete block.
Block is being replaced with ICF so the block stackers may find their
jobs in danger too, although laying block is not high skill.
You seem to be fascinated by guys who weld pipes in nuke plants but
that is your typical diversion.
Robots weld better than people and we haven't built a new nuke plant
since the Carter administration.
It is still true that technology is dumbing down just about all of the
trades. I am also not saying there are not skills needed but I do
think "4 years" is ridiculous for most of them if the person is much
smarter than a fruit fly. To start with, different people learn at
different speeds but the union is locked into a set schedule.
Universities have the same problem. They have it dumbed down to the
speed of the dumbest person and then pad that up with extra time
anyway. It happens any time you pay by the hour and not the job.

Luddite has a welder story. It has to do with an incompetent welder and
a Navy welder. I won't give the whole story away.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 11:02:07 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR.

Yikes, the longest mainframe school I ever went to was 8 weeks. They
sent you back to the field for a while, then you went back for a more
advanced course. Once you got a feel for the culture of the various
families, (Endicott, Kingston or Rochester) you usually did not need
much additional education to figure that stuff out anyway. If you were
trained on a 168, it wasn't hard to figure out what a 3033 or a 3090
was doing. The Rochester machines were even more so. If you understood
any AS/400, you understood them all. The hardware may have been
different but the maintenance package was the same and they all ran
the same software.
When I moved to Florida I waived training on about 400 boxes because
the technology of virtually all of the "industry systems" (ATMs, Cash
registers, teller terminals etc) was robbed from the UC.5 support
processor we had been using on Endicott mainframes for over a decade.
The rest was just belts, pulleys and wheels. Same with the 3890 check
sorter. It took me a few weeks to get a feel for the ink ****er and
some of the adjustments on the feed but it is just a paper pusher, run
by a 360/25 processor and I was a region specialist on the 25.



The 36 weeks was basic electronics for some weeks, and then the mainframe,
and all the peripherals. They we still discrete transistors back then, and
we learned to fix individual boards.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 11:12:55 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 08:35:15 -0400, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 07:56:38 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.

Thank God for the well-educated engineers making the blueprints easy
enough to follow, eh?

===

And the project engineers/managers who track the work in progress.


When I was a kid, my father build a block front to his machine shop. The
union brick layers picketed until they hired them. They lasted one day.
They started mortar in the morning and just added to it during the day.
That evening a light rain and the wall they built collapsed. Yup, union
brick layers are highly trained.

When I built the addition in Maryland I hired union type bricklayers
to do the veneer on the front because they are fast and do a good job
but they were working off the books for cash. The block and concrete
guy I used was just a good old boy who used to be in the union but he
went off on his own. His kid took over the business as a non-union
shop. He was learning the job at the time and I was following along. I
got to be a pretty good block guy after about a week but I am slow. I
know how to square up the job, lay the corner piers and lay block to
the line.


My last house, I built a concrete patio and a slump stone planter. Not
real hard to lay bricks, and that is all slump stone is in the end. Patio
was good enough that a backhoe drove over part of it to dig the pool and
one corner broke. Was maybe a 6" break/crack.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On 9/14/2016 2:45 PM, Califbill wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 11:02:07 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR.

Yikes, the longest mainframe school I ever went to was 8 weeks. They
sent you back to the field for a while, then you went back for a more
advanced course. Once you got a feel for the culture of the various
families, (Endicott, Kingston or Rochester) you usually did not need
much additional education to figure that stuff out anyway. If you were
trained on a 168, it wasn't hard to figure out what a 3033 or a 3090
was doing. The Rochester machines were even more so. If you understood
any AS/400, you understood them all. The hardware may have been
different but the maintenance package was the same and they all ran
the same software.
When I moved to Florida I waived training on about 400 boxes because
the technology of virtually all of the "industry systems" (ATMs, Cash
registers, teller terminals etc) was robbed from the UC.5 support
processor we had been using on Endicott mainframes for over a decade.
The rest was just belts, pulleys and wheels. Same with the 3890 check
sorter. It took me a few weeks to get a feel for the ink ****er and
some of the adjustments on the feed but it is just a paper pusher, run
by a 360/25 processor and I was a region specialist on the 25.



The 36 weeks was basic electronics for some weeks, and then the mainframe,
and all the peripherals. They we still discrete transistors back then, and
we learned to fix individual boards.

When I got into the game Burroughs was using parallel plate packages and
memory cores hand wired in Brazil. No monitors, just TTY with paper tape
or cards for input. Man, I'm old.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 2:12:47 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 10:46:09 -0700 (PDT), Its Me
wrote:


NYC? Haha... that has to be the most tightly union controlled place on the planet. When we shipped equipment into the city, we had to have it off-loaded outside the city to a union driven truck for it to be accepted for delivery at the site. I had to point at connection points in a wiring frame so a union guy could connect the test equipment. Then he'd hand it to me so I could run the test, then I'd hand it back to him with instructions on where to connect it next, just because I wasn't allowed to touch the wiring frame. All because "they'd worked hard to secure their jobs, and they were going to protect them", or some such BS. The guy couldn't do my job, but it took him, the steward overlooking us, and me to do what I could do by myself.

I do have to say the guys ran the wiring very neatly. Too bad it was full of wiring errors I had to identify and tell them how to correct.

No, Chicago has New York beat. The IBEW managed to totally ban non
metallic wiring methods for 70 years. You even had to run wire in
metal pipe in 1 and 2 family. They have backed off a little but it is
still very restrictive.
When I was in the Ed Center in Chicago as a temp instructor we wanted
to move some machines around. I just started pulling floor tiles and
dropping cables. The ed center manager freaked out. We needed to call
in a few IBEW members to watch. They sat there drinking $25 an hour
coffee (in the early 80s) while we did all the work but they had to be
there. There is no way we would actually let them under our covers.
They used to let them pull the cables but they broke too many so we
needed as many feather bedders as we had people doing the work. If
someone just came over and touched a cable, we needed to bring in
another electrician. When I asked "why even let them know we did it",
they told me the union cleaners or other maintenance people would rat
them out and they would strike the whole building.
Maybe that idiocy helped to form my negative image of unions. Bear in
mind I grew up in the shadow of the Teamsters international.

A friend I worked with lived in a suburb of Chicago for a while. Says that PVC water pipes are not allowed up there, so when you had an issue you had to call a union plumber to sweat the copper.. Also told me about the house wiring having to be in conduit.

What a crock.