On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 05:03:47 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:

John H.
- show quoted text -
"But almost all of my fishing was between Deale and the Patuxent. Only fishing in the
Potomac was for catfish in the channel with grandkids.

The extra salt may mean a new exhaust manifold sooner...five years, maybe? But, it
appeas very easy to replace on that four. And it looks like they run less than $400.
On the V8, they were a bitch, and much more expensive, of course."


...and I was worried about the bellows rotting out! Salesman said it should last 15 years.
A new exhaust manifold every five years doesn't appeal to me. You'd think they would come up with a better material.
I've never owned an inboard/outboard and I am a bit leary about it. I'd better start reading up on how the engine cooling system works and how much routine maintenance is required.
Already I can see that the optional 23" deep swim platform is going to make flushing the lower end a bit harder. The idea is that platform will make it easier for the dog to reboard after swimming. The 170BR with outboard motor has a very narrow reboarding spot next to the outboard well.

Most of the "I/O problems" get mitigated somewhat when you are on a
trailer. Sitting in the water is trouble. A little bellows leak that
your bilge pump handles on a day trip is a sunk boat if it is sitting
in the water. The LU will stay wet too so you may end up with all the
problems that entails. Again, up on the trailer, no sweat.
They have a real bad rep in Florida.

On 2/22/2016 1:11 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 05:03:47 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:

John H.
- show quoted text -
"But almost all of my fishing was between Deale and the Patuxent. Only fishing in the
Potomac was for catfish in the channel with grandkids.

The extra salt may mean a new exhaust manifold sooner...five years, maybe? But, it
appeas very easy to replace on that four. And it looks like they run less than $400.
On the V8, they were a bitch, and much more expensive, of course."


...and I was worried about the bellows rotting out! Salesman said it should last 15 years.
A new exhaust manifold every five years doesn't appeal to me. You'd think they would come up with a better material.
I've never owned an inboard/outboard and I am a bit leary about it. I'd better start reading up on how the engine cooling system works and how much routine maintenance is required.
Already I can see that the optional 23" deep swim platform is going to make flushing the lower end a bit harder. The idea is that platform will make it easier for the dog to reboard after swimming. The 170BR with outboard motor has a very narrow reboarding spot next to the outboard well.

Most of the "I/O problems" get mitigated somewhat when you are on a
trailer. Sitting in the water is trouble. A little bellows leak that
your bilge pump handles on a day trip is a sunk boat if it is sitting
in the water. The LU will stay wet too so you may end up with all the
problems that entails. Again, up on the trailer, no sweat.
They have a real bad rep in Florida.



I've been ocean boating since about 1993. I don't personally know
anyone who's boat sank because of a leaky bellows. Doesn't mean it
hasn't happened but the number of people I have known with I/O's who
keep them in slips during the season is a pretty good sampling.

On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 13:18:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2016 1:11 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 05:03:47 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:

John H.
- show quoted text -
"But almost all of my fishing was between Deale and the Patuxent. Only fishing in the
Potomac was for catfish in the channel with grandkids.

The extra salt may mean a new exhaust manifold sooner...five years, maybe? But, it
appeas very easy to replace on that four. And it looks like they run less than $400.
On the V8, they were a bitch, and much more expensive, of course."


...and I was worried about the bellows rotting out! Salesman said it should last 15 years.
A new exhaust manifold every five years doesn't appeal to me. You'd think they would come up with a better material.
I've never owned an inboard/outboard and I am a bit leary about it. I'd better start reading up on how the engine cooling system works and how much routine maintenance is required.
Already I can see that the optional 23" deep swim platform is going to make flushing the lower end a bit harder. The idea is that platform will make it easier for the dog to reboard after swimming. The 170BR with outboard motor has a very narrow reboarding spot next to the outboard well.

Most of the "I/O problems" get mitigated somewhat when you are on a
trailer. Sitting in the water is trouble. A little bellows leak that
your bilge pump handles on a day trip is a sunk boat if it is sitting
in the water. The LU will stay wet too so you may end up with all the
problems that entails. Again, up on the trailer, no sweat.
They have a real bad rep in Florida.



I've been ocean boating since about 1993. I don't personally know
anyone who's boat sank because of a leaky bellows. Doesn't mean it
hasn't happened but the number of people I have known with I/O's who
keep them in slips during the season is a pretty good sampling.


===

I kept our old I/O in salt water several years before we moved to
Florida. It was an old 1979 boat and never had any problems. Here in
Florida we kept it in a boat lift but never flushed it. I eventually
got rid of it because the floor boards were getting soft and we got a
really good deal on a Sea Ray bow rider.

On 2/22/2016 8:21 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 13:18:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2016 1:11 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 05:03:47 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:

John H.
- show quoted text -
"But almost all of my fishing was between Deale and the Patuxent. Only fishing in the
Potomac was for catfish in the channel with grandkids.

The extra salt may mean a new exhaust manifold sooner...five years, maybe? But, it
appeas very easy to replace on that four. And it looks like they run less than $400.
On the V8, they were a bitch, and much more expensive, of course."


...and I was worried about the bellows rotting out! Salesman said it should last 15 years.
A new exhaust manifold every five years doesn't appeal to me. You'd think they would come up with a better material.
I've never owned an inboard/outboard and I am a bit leary about it. I'd better start reading up on how the engine cooling system works and how much routine maintenance is required.
Already I can see that the optional 23" deep swim platform is going to make flushing the lower end a bit harder. The idea is that platform will make it easier for the dog to reboard after swimming. The 170BR with outboard motor has a very narrow reboarding spot next to the outboard well.

Most of the "I/O problems" get mitigated somewhat when you are on a
trailer. Sitting in the water is trouble. A little bellows leak that
your bilge pump handles on a day trip is a sunk boat if it is sitting
in the water. The LU will stay wet too so you may end up with all the
problems that entails. Again, up on the trailer, no sweat.
They have a real bad rep in Florida.



I've been ocean boating since about 1993. I don't personally know
anyone who's boat sank because of a leaky bellows. Doesn't mean it
hasn't happened but the number of people I have known with I/O's who
keep them in slips during the season is a pretty good sampling.


The word there is "season" I guess.Our season is 12 months. I got
convinced by the locals here. The I/O was very popular in the
Chesapeake. You seldom see one here unless it has northern numbers or
it is a big "go fast".


Our six month "off" season is probably as tough or tougher on a rubber
bellows than your 12 month season in the water. Typically, they are
stored outside, subjected to winter weather and temps sometimes at or
below zero. Still have never heard of even an older I/O sinking due to
a bellows failure.

On 2/22/2016 9:40 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 20:35:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2016 8:21 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 13:18:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2016 1:11 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 05:03:47 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:

John H.
- show quoted text -
"But almost all of my fishing was between Deale and the Patuxent. Only fishing in the
Potomac was for catfish in the channel with grandkids.

The extra salt may mean a new exhaust manifold sooner...five years, maybe? But, it
appeas very easy to replace on that four. And it looks like they run less than $400.
On the V8, they were a bitch, and much more expensive, of course."


...and I was worried about the bellows rotting out! Salesman said it should last 15 years.
A new exhaust manifold every five years doesn't appeal to me. You'd think they would come up with a better material.
I've never owned an inboard/outboard and I am a bit leary about it. I'd better start reading up on how the engine cooling system works and how much routine maintenance is required.
Already I can see that the optional 23" deep swim platform is going to make flushing the lower end a bit harder. The idea is that platform will make it easier for the dog to reboard after swimming. The 170BR with outboard motor has a very narrow reboarding spot next to the outboard well.

Most of the "I/O problems" get mitigated somewhat when you are on a
trailer. Sitting in the water is trouble. A little bellows leak that
your bilge pump handles on a day trip is a sunk boat if it is sitting
in the water. The LU will stay wet too so you may end up with all the
problems that entails. Again, up on the trailer, no sweat.
They have a real bad rep in Florida.



I've been ocean boating since about 1993. I don't personally know
anyone who's boat sank because of a leaky bellows. Doesn't mean it
hasn't happened but the number of people I have known with I/O's who
keep them in slips during the season is a pretty good sampling.


The word there is "season" I guess.Our season is 12 months. I got
convinced by the locals here. The I/O was very popular in the
Chesapeake. You seldom see one here unless it has northern numbers or
it is a big "go fast".


Our six month "off" season is probably as tough or tougher on a rubber
bellows than your 12 month season in the water. Typically, they are
stored outside, subjected to winter weather and temps sometimes at or
below zero. Still have never heard of even an older I/O sinking due to
a bellows failure.

Dunno. I just know I/Os usually come from up north and get replaced
with an outboard boat here pretty quickly. I think the 4 stroke
outboard has really taken a bite out of any advantage an I/O had.
they are certainly a lot easier to work on you are standing up and not
standing on your head with a flashlight and a mirror.


No argument from me on that. I've had two I/O type boats and I'd never
own another one again but the problems were not due to the bellows.
Outboards on smaller boats ... (although a lot more costly) and inboards
(diesel) with fixed props and rudders for the bigger ones.

On 2/23/16 6:08 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 01:06:25 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Dunno. I just know I/Os usually come from up north and get replaced
with an outboard boat here pretty quickly. I think the 4 stroke
outboard has really taken a bite out of any advantage an I/O had.
they are certainly a lot easier to work on you are standing up and not
standing on your head with a flashlight and a mirror.


No argument from me on that. I've had two I/O type boats and I'd never
own another one again but the problems were not due to the bellows.
Outboards on smaller boats ... (although a lot more costly) and inboards
(diesel) with fixed props and rudders for the bigger ones.


I am not really even sure outboards cost more since they seem to be
lighter and you don't need as big a one.


Price a new, 2016 250 hp Yamaha V6 and get back to us..., and don't
forget to add in rigging. Motor weighs about 600 pounds.

On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 18:18:39 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/23/16 6:08 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 01:06:25 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Dunno. I just know I/Os usually come from up north and get replaced
with an outboard boat here pretty quickly. I think the 4 stroke
outboard has really taken a bite out of any advantage an I/O had.
they are certainly a lot easier to work on you are standing up and not
standing on your head with a flashlight and a mirror.


No argument from me on that. I've had two I/O type boats and I'd never
own another one again but the problems were not due to the bellows.
Outboards on smaller boats ... (although a lot more costly) and inboards
(diesel) with fixed props and rudders for the bigger ones.


I am not really even sure outboards cost more since they seem to be
lighter and you don't need as big a one.


Price a new, 2016 250 hp Yamaha V6 and get back to us..., and don't
forget to add in rigging. Motor weighs about 600 pounds.

The discussion has been about Don's 17.5' boat. You reckon Greg is thinking 250hp for
that boat?

Don't you ever get sick of yourself?
--

Ban liars, tax cheats, idiots, and narcissists...not guns!

On 2/23/16 6:50 PM, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 18:18:39 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/23/16 6:08 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 01:06:25 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Dunno. I just know I/Os usually come from up north and get replaced
with an outboard boat here pretty quickly. I think the 4 stroke
outboard has really taken a bite out of any advantage an I/O had.
they are certainly a lot easier to work on you are standing up and not
standing on your head with a flashlight and a mirror.


No argument from me on that. I've had two I/O type boats and I'd never
own another one again but the problems were not due to the bellows.
Outboards on smaller boats ... (although a lot more costly) and inboards
(diesel) with fixed props and rudders for the bigger ones.


I am not really even sure outboards cost more since they seem to be
lighter and you don't need as big a one.


Price a new, 2016 250 hp Yamaha V6 and get back to us..., and don't
forget to add in rigging. Motor weighs about 600 pounds.

The discussion has been about Don's 17.5' boat. You reckon Greg is thinking 250hp for
that boat?

Don't you ever get sick of yourself?
--




The price of a 135 hp Yamaha outboard is $14,000+, **** for brains. I
would guess you could buy at least two or maybe three I/O's of that
horsepower for that money.

Of course, the BOSE model is smaller but more expensive.

wrote:
On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 20:35:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2016 8:21 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 13:18:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2016 1:11 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 05:03:47 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:

John H.
- show quoted text -
"But almost all of my fishing was between Deale and the Patuxent. Only fishing in the
Potomac was for catfish in the channel with grandkids.

The extra salt may mean a new exhaust manifold sooner...five years, maybe? But, it
appeas very easy to replace on that four. And it looks like they run less than $400.
On the V8, they were a bitch, and much more expensive, of course."


...and I was worried about the bellows rotting out! Salesman said
it should last 15 years.
A new exhaust manifold every five years doesn't appeal to me. You'd
think they would come up with a better material.
I've never owned an inboard/outboard and I am a bit leary about it.
I'd better start reading up on how the engine cooling system works
and how much routine maintenance is required.
Already I can see that the optional 23" deep swim platform is going
to make flushing the lower end a bit harder. The idea is that
platform will make it easier for the dog to reboard after swimming.
The 170BR with outboard motor has a very narrow reboarding spot next
to the outboard well.

Most of the "I/O problems" get mitigated somewhat when you are on a
trailer. Sitting in the water is trouble. A little bellows leak that
your bilge pump handles on a day trip is a sunk boat if it is sitting
in the water. The LU will stay wet too so you may end up with all the
problems that entails. Again, up on the trailer, no sweat.
They have a real bad rep in Florida.



I've been ocean boating since about 1993. I don't personally know
anyone who's boat sank because of a leaky bellows. Doesn't mean it
hasn't happened but the number of people I have known with I/O's who
keep them in slips during the season is a pretty good sampling.


The word there is "season" I guess.Our season is 12 months. I got
convinced by the locals here. The I/O was very popular in the
Chesapeake. You seldom see one here unless it has northern numbers or
it is a big "go fast".


Our six month "off" season is probably as tough or tougher on a rubber
bellows than your 12 month season in the water. Typically, they are
stored outside, subjected to winter weather and temps sometimes at or
below zero. Still have never heard of even an older I/O sinking due to
a bellows failure.

Dunno. I just know I/Os usually come from up north and get replaced
with an outboard boat here pretty quickly. I think the 4 stroke
outboard has really taken a bite out of any advantage an I/O had.
they are certainly a lot easier to work on you are standing up and not
standing on your head with a flashlight and a mirror.


And they are quiet and no oil mix problems and stink these days. We went
out to Louue Key on a very large pontoon. Twin 250's. Quiet, and fast.