What a joke ....
 

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 9:40:16 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wed, 10 Feb 2016 07:10:15 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 10:18:07 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Feb 2016 07:40:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Yup. The Japanese invasion pretty much killed off BSA and Norton here
also. The original Indian Motorcycle Co. folded in 1953. They only
produced about 1,000 military motorcycles in WWII whereas Harley
Davidson produced over 90,000. Even Harley ran into some problems
later leading to their purchase by AMF in 1969 who ruined their quality
and reputation. Fortunately, a group of investors led by Willie
Davidson bought the company from AMF in 1981 and refocused on quality..
They also accused the Japanese makers of flooding the US market with
cheap products and claimed that domestic motorcycles and the jobs their
manufacture created was endangered. Ronald Reagan took action to
protect the domestic manufacturers by imposing a 45% tariff on imported
motorcycles over 700cc's.
( Screw the "global market" BS :-) )

We started seeing the AMF problems in 71.. Probably the worst problem
was in the 74 Sportster where the rear fork was bending and the seat
mounting bolt would wear a groove in the rear tire. The fix was
welding a couple struts in to hold it up.
The 71 and 72 Superglides had excessive flex in the fork tubes because
they were using the Sportster front end on an FL frame. They ate
seals.
In 71 they also changed the spec for the main shaft bearing in the
FL/FX transmission (did not account for thrust load) and they went
bad.
There were lots of growing pains in the early AMF years.
It was a good time to be a Harley mechanic tho ;-)

Harley was good about putting out scrap those years. A friend of mine worked for AMF and got an 80 Glide at cost. (benefit of the company) and it always smoked. Finally a dealer tore it down and it had rings missing on the back piston.

Typical UAW workers before the japs handed them their ass.

The thing always dripped oil and the speedo was way off. All from the factory.

Harleys are supposed to "drip oil". If it is excessive, back off on
the chain oiler.
Lots of guys turned it off completely but they usually did not
manually oil the chain and ended up with bad chains and sprockets.

BTW, yes the Superglide front forks. A lot of them starting cracking right below the triple tree. It's amazing how some feel that HD is still such a glorious motorcycle. Then again, the "Big four" Japanese have had models to copy HD's for years. go figure

Harley was always a state of mind thing more than just owning the most
high tech bike. The old ones also had the advantage that they did use
a lot of off the shelf industrial parts so you might find what you
needed in a feed store in fumbuck idaho. (AKA "tractor parts").

I used to have a pretty good list of parts that were generic "counter
store" items. They were always going to be less than the dealer and in
a lot of cases very much less.

"Harleys are supposed to "drip oil". "

Not from the bottom of the crank case and front head...

What a joke ....
 

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 9:40:16 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wed, 10 Feb 2016 07:10:15 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 10:18:07 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Feb 2016 07:40:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Yup. The Japanese invasion pretty much killed off BSA and Norton here
also. The original Indian Motorcycle Co. folded in 1953. They only
produced about 1,000 military motorcycles in WWII whereas Harley
Davidson produced over 90,000. Even Harley ran into some problems
later leading to their purchase by AMF in 1969 who ruined their quality
and reputation. Fortunately, a group of investors led by Willie
Davidson bought the company from AMF in 1981 and refocused on quality.
They also accused the Japanese makers of flooding the US market with
cheap products and claimed that domestic motorcycles and the jobs their
manufacture created was endangered. Ronald Reagan took action to
protect the domestic manufacturers by imposing a 45% tariff on imported
motorcycles over 700cc's.
( Screw the "global market" BS :-) )

We started seeing the AMF problems in 71.. Probably the worst problem
was in the 74 Sportster where the rear fork was bending and the seat
mounting bolt would wear a groove in the rear tire. The fix was
welding a couple struts in to hold it up.
The 71 and 72 Superglides had excessive flex in the fork tubes because
they were using the Sportster front end on an FL frame. They ate
seals.
In 71 they also changed the spec for the main shaft bearing in the
FL/FX transmission (did not account for thrust load) and they went
bad.
There were lots of growing pains in the early AMF years.
It was a good time to be a Harley mechanic tho ;-)

Harley was good about putting out scrap those years. A friend of mine worked for AMF and got an 80 Glide at cost. (benefit of the company) and it always smoked. Finally a dealer tore it down and it had rings missing on the back piston.

Typical UAW workers before the japs handed them their ass.



Same thing happened to big 3 automakers at that same time frame. interesting..

What a joke ....
 

On 2/10/16 10:10 AM, Tim wrote:
On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 10:18:07 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Feb 2016 07:40:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Yup. The Japanese invasion pretty much killed off BSA and Norton here
also. The original Indian Motorcycle Co. folded in 1953. They only
produced about 1,000 military motorcycles in WWII whereas Harley
Davidson produced over 90,000. Even Harley ran into some problems
later leading to their purchase by AMF in 1969 who ruined their quality
and reputation. Fortunately, a group of investors led by Willie
Davidson bought the company from AMF in 1981 and refocused on quality.
They also accused the Japanese makers of flooding the US market with
cheap products and claimed that domestic motorcycles and the jobs their
manufacture created was endangered. Ronald Reagan took action to
protect the domestic manufacturers by imposing a 45% tariff on imported
motorcycles over 700cc's.
( Screw the "global market" BS :-) )

We started seeing the AMF problems in 71.. Probably the worst problem
was in the 74 Sportster where the rear fork was bending and the seat
mounting bolt would wear a groove in the rear tire. The fix was
welding a couple struts in to hold it up.
The 71 and 72 Superglides had excessive flex in the fork tubes because
they were using the Sportster front end on an FL frame. They ate
seals.
In 71 they also changed the spec for the main shaft bearing in the
FL/FX transmission (did not account for thrust load) and they went
bad.
There were lots of growing pains in the early AMF years.
It was a good time to be a Harley mechanic tho ;-)

Harley was good about putting out scrap those years. A friend of mine worked for AMF and got an 80 Glide at cost. (benefit of the company) and it always smoked. Finally a dealer tore it down and it had rings missing on the back piston.

The thing always dripped oil and the speedo was way off. All from the factory.

BTW, yes the Superglide front forks. A lot of them starting cracking right below the triple tree. It's amazing how some feel that HD is still such a glorious motorcycle. Then again, the "Big four" Japanese have had models to copy HD's for years. go figure


Back in the good old days, when I was in college in Kansas, I had the
used Honda motorcycle I bought with some of my summer earnings back east
shipped out to Dorothy's state. Well, "the guys" with their Triumphs,
BSAs, Harleys, et cetera, laughed at my poor little two cylinder Honda,
but, unlike their bikes, the Honda started easily every time, didn't
leak oil, and ran smoothly. There weren't many Hondas out there in
Kansas at that time. :)

What a joke ....
 

On Wed, 10 Feb 2016 08:01:51 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 9:40:16 AM UTC-6, wrote:


"Harleys are supposed to "drip oil". "

Not from the bottom of the crank case and front head...

If they were not assembled right the push rod tubes would leak.

What a joke ....
 

On Wed, 10 Feb 2016 11:18:16 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 2/10/16 10:10 AM, Tim wrote:
On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 10:18:07 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Feb 2016 07:40:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Yup. The Japanese invasion pretty much killed off BSA and Norton here
also. The original Indian Motorcycle Co. folded in 1953. They only
produced about 1,000 military motorcycles in WWII whereas Harley
Davidson produced over 90,000. Even Harley ran into some problems
later leading to their purchase by AMF in 1969 who ruined their quality
and reputation. Fortunately, a group of investors led by Willie
Davidson bought the company from AMF in 1981 and refocused on quality.
They also accused the Japanese makers of flooding the US market with
cheap products and claimed that domestic motorcycles and the jobs their
manufacture created was endangered. Ronald Reagan took action to
protect the domestic manufacturers by imposing a 45% tariff on imported
motorcycles over 700cc's.
( Screw the "global market" BS :-) )

We started seeing the AMF problems in 71.. Probably the worst problem
was in the 74 Sportster where the rear fork was bending and the seat
mounting bolt would wear a groove in the rear tire. The fix was
welding a couple struts in to hold it up.
The 71 and 72 Superglides had excessive flex in the fork tubes because
they were using the Sportster front end on an FL frame. They ate
seals.
In 71 they also changed the spec for the main shaft bearing in the
FL/FX transmission (did not account for thrust load) and they went
bad.
There were lots of growing pains in the early AMF years.
It was a good time to be a Harley mechanic tho ;-)

Harley was good about putting out scrap those years. A friend of mine worked for AMF and got an 80 Glide at cost. (benefit of the company) and it always smoked. Finally a dealer tore it down and it had rings missing on the back piston.

The thing always dripped oil and the speedo was way off. All from the factory.

BTW, yes the Superglide front forks. A lot of them starting cracking right below the triple tree. It's amazing how some feel that HD is still such a glorious motorcycle. Then again, the "Big four" Japanese have had models to copy HD's for years. go figure


Back in the good old days, when I was in college in Kansas, I had the
used Honda motorcycle I bought with some of my summer earnings back east
shipped out to Dorothy's state. Well, "the guys" with their Triumphs,
BSAs, Harleys, et cetera, laughed at my poor little two cylinder Honda,
but, unlike their bikes, the Honda started easily every time, didn't
leak oil, and ran smoothly. There weren't many Hondas out there in
Kansas at that time. :)

Most F series Harleys were "one kick" bikes if you knew how to start
one. They did have a problem with the late 60s Sportsters that had the
magneto. The guys who rode them usually walked with a limp because the
kicker ratchet wore out and they had a habit of just "falling
through". You had to really be sure it caught before you stood on it.

I did have a 350 Honda for a while but it was pretty uninspiring. I
bought it in 20 boxes, put it together and doubled my money when I
sold it. It was about like the 350 Yamaha I bought after a wreck,
fixed and sold but a bit slower.

What a joke ....
 

On Wed, 10 Feb 2016 07:10:15 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote:

On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 10:18:07 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Feb 2016 07:40:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Yup. The Japanese invasion pretty much killed off BSA and Norton here
also. The original Indian Motorcycle Co. folded in 1953. They only
produced about 1,000 military motorcycles in WWII whereas Harley
Davidson produced over 90,000. Even Harley ran into some problems
later leading to their purchase by AMF in 1969 who ruined their quality
and reputation. Fortunately, a group of investors led by Willie
Davidson bought the company from AMF in 1981 and refocused on quality.
They also accused the Japanese makers of flooding the US market with
cheap products and claimed that domestic motorcycles and the jobs their
manufacture created was endangered. Ronald Reagan took action to
protect the domestic manufacturers by imposing a 45% tariff on imported
motorcycles over 700cc's.
( Screw the "global market" BS :-) )

We started seeing the AMF problems in 71.. Probably the worst problem
was in the 74 Sportster where the rear fork was bending and the seat
mounting bolt would wear a groove in the rear tire. The fix was
welding a couple struts in to hold it up.
The 71 and 72 Superglides had excessive flex in the fork tubes because
they were using the Sportster front end on an FL frame. They ate
seals.
In 71 they also changed the spec for the main shaft bearing in the
FL/FX transmission (did not account for thrust load) and they went
bad.
There were lots of growing pains in the early AMF years.
It was a good time to be a Harley mechanic tho ;-)

Harley was good about putting out scrap those years. A friend of mine worked for AMF and got an 80 Glide at cost. (benefit of the company) and it always smoked. Finally a dealer tore it down and it had rings missing on the back piston.

The thing always dripped oil and the speedo was way off. All from the factory.

BTW, yes the Superglide front forks. A lot of them starting cracking right below the triple tree. It's amazing how some feel that HD is still such a glorious motorcycle. Then again, the "Big four" Japanese have had models to copy HD's for years. go figure

I don't like any of the 'cruiser' style bikes, even those made by Moto Guzzi.
--

Ban liars, tax cheats, idiots, and narcissists...not guns!

What a joke ....
 

On Wed, 10 Feb 2016 11:18:16 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

Back in the good old days, when I was in college in Kansas, I had the
used Honda motorcycle I bought with some of my summer earnings back east
shipped out to Dorothy's state. Well, "the guys" with their Triumphs,
BSAs, Harleys, et cetera, laughed at my poor little two cylinder Honda,
but, unlike their bikes, the Honda started easily every time, didn't
leak oil, and ran smoothly. There weren't many Hondas out there in
Kansas at that time. :)

===

You of all people bought a non-union made bike? How very
disappointing that you don't walk the talk, but why am I not
surprised.

What a joke ....
 

On 2/10/2016 11:01 AM, Tim wrote:
On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 9:40:16 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wed, 10 Feb 2016 07:10:15 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 10:18:07 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Feb 2016 07:40:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Yup. The Japanese invasion pretty much killed off BSA and Norton here
also. The original Indian Motorcycle Co. folded in 1953. They only
produced about 1,000 military motorcycles in WWII whereas Harley
Davidson produced over 90,000. Even Harley ran into some problems
later leading to their purchase by AMF in 1969 who ruined their quality
and reputation. Fortunately, a group of investors led by Willie
Davidson bought the company from AMF in 1981 and refocused on quality.
They also accused the Japanese makers of flooding the US market with
cheap products and claimed that domestic motorcycles and the jobs their
manufacture created was endangered. Ronald Reagan took action to
protect the domestic manufacturers by imposing a 45% tariff on imported
motorcycles over 700cc's.
( Screw the "global market" BS :-) )

We started seeing the AMF problems in 71.. Probably the worst problem
was in the 74 Sportster where the rear fork was bending and the seat
mounting bolt would wear a groove in the rear tire. The fix was
welding a couple struts in to hold it up.
The 71 and 72 Superglides had excessive flex in the fork tubes because
they were using the Sportster front end on an FL frame. They ate
seals.
In 71 they also changed the spec for the main shaft bearing in the
FL/FX transmission (did not account for thrust load) and they went
bad.
There were lots of growing pains in the early AMF years.
It was a good time to be a Harley mechanic tho ;-)

Harley was good about putting out scrap those years. A friend of mine worked for AMF and got an 80 Glide at cost. (benefit of the company) and it always smoked. Finally a dealer tore it down and it had rings missing on the back piston.

Typical UAW workers before the japs handed them their ass.

The thing always dripped oil and the speedo was way off. All from the factory.

Harleys are supposed to "drip oil". If it is excessive, back off on
the chain oiler.
Lots of guys turned it off completely but they usually did not
manually oil the chain and ended up with bad chains and sprockets.

BTW, yes the Superglide front forks. A lot of them starting cracking right below the triple tree. It's amazing how some feel that HD is still such a glorious motorcycle. Then again, the "Big four" Japanese have had models to copy HD's for years. go figure

Harley was always a state of mind thing more than just owning the most
high tech bike. The old ones also had the advantage that they did use
a lot of off the shelf industrial parts so you might find what you
needed in a feed store in fumbuck idaho. (AKA "tractor parts").

I used to have a pretty good list of parts that were generic "counter
store" items. They were always going to be less than the dealer and in
a lot of cases very much less.

"Harleys are supposed to "drip oil"."

Not from the bottom of the crank case and front head...



I think Harley did a lot of work to clean up quality control issues
following the AMF disaster. The last two I owned (a 2000 Ultra Classic
and a 2007 Ultra Classic) had no issues and didn't leak a drop.

What a joke ....
 

On 2/10/16 1:28 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2016 11:01 AM, Tim wrote:
On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 9:40:16 AM UTC-6,
wrote:
On Wed, 10 Feb 2016 07:10:15 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 10:18:07 AM UTC-6,
wrote:
On Mon, 8 Feb 2016 07:40:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Yup. The Japanese invasion pretty much killed off BSA and Norton
here
also. The original Indian Motorcycle Co. folded in 1953. They only
produced about 1,000 military motorcycles in WWII whereas Harley
Davidson produced over 90,000. Even Harley ran into some problems
later leading to their purchase by AMF in 1969 who ruined their
quality
and reputation. Fortunately, a group of investors led by Willie
Davidson bought the company from AMF in 1981 and refocused on
quality.
They also accused the Japanese makers of flooding the US market
with
cheap products and claimed that domestic motorcycles and the jobs
their
manufacture created was endangered. Ronald Reagan took action to
protect the domestic manufacturers by imposing a 45% tariff on
imported
motorcycles over 700cc's.
( Screw the "global market" BS :-) )

We started seeing the AMF problems in 71.. Probably the worst problem
was in the 74 Sportster where the rear fork was bending and the seat
mounting bolt would wear a groove in the rear tire. The fix was
welding a couple struts in to hold it up.
The 71 and 72 Superglides had excessive flex in the fork tubes because
they were using the Sportster front end on an FL frame. They ate
seals.
In 71 they also changed the spec for the main shaft bearing in the
FL/FX transmission (did not account for thrust load) and they went
bad.
There were lots of growing pains in the early AMF years.
It was a good time to be a Harley mechanic tho ;-)

Harley was good about putting out scrap those years. A friend of
mine worked for AMF and got an 80 Glide at cost. (benefit of the
company) and it always smoked. Finally a dealer tore it down and it
had rings missing on the back piston.

Typical UAW workers before the japs handed them their ass.

The thing always dripped oil and the speedo was way off. All from
the factory.

Harleys are supposed to "drip oil". If it is excessive, back off on
the chain oiler.
Lots of guys turned it off completely but they usually did not
manually oil the chain and ended up with bad chains and sprockets.

BTW, yes the Superglide front forks. A lot of them starting cracking
right below the triple tree. It's amazing how some feel that HD is
still such a glorious motorcycle. Then again, the "Big four"
Japanese have had models to copy HD's for years. go figure

Harley was always a state of mind thing more than just owning the most
high tech bike. The old ones also had the advantage that they did use
a lot of off the shelf industrial parts so you might find what you
needed in a feed store in fumbuck idaho. (AKA "tractor parts").

I used to have a pretty good list of parts that were generic "counter
store" items. They were always going to be less than the dealer and in
a lot of cases very much less.

"Harleys are supposed to "drip oil"."

Not from the bottom of the crank case and front head...



I think Harley did a lot of work to clean up quality control issues
following the AMF disaster. The last two I owned (a 2000 Ultra Classic
and a 2007 Ultra Classic) had no issues and didn't leak a drop.



I never really liked Harleys that much because of their avoirdupois. In
the years I had motorcycles back then, I can only remember one ride that
was more than 50 miles, and I liked the lighter bikes. Didn't drive that
fast, either, so a two cylinder 350 cc bike was just fine.

What a joke ....
 

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 12:28:40 PM UTC-6, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2016 11:01 AM, Tim wrote:
On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 9:40:16 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wed, 10 Feb 2016 07:10:15 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 10:18:07 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Feb 2016 07:40:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Yup. The Japanese invasion pretty much killed off BSA and Norton here
also. The original Indian Motorcycle Co. folded in 1953. They only
produced about 1,000 military motorcycles in WWII whereas Harley
Davidson produced over 90,000. Even Harley ran into some problems
later leading to their purchase by AMF in 1969 who ruined their quality
and reputation. Fortunately, a group of investors led by Willie
Davidson bought the company from AMF in 1981 and refocused on quality.
They also accused the Japanese makers of flooding the US market with
cheap products and claimed that domestic motorcycles and the jobs their
manufacture created was endangered. Ronald Reagan took action to
protect the domestic manufacturers by imposing a 45% tariff on imported
motorcycles over 700cc's.
( Screw the "global market" BS :-) )

We started seeing the AMF problems in 71.. Probably the worst problem
was in the 74 Sportster where the rear fork was bending and the seat
mounting bolt would wear a groove in the rear tire. The fix was
welding a couple struts in to hold it up.
The 71 and 72 Superglides had excessive flex in the fork tubes because
they were using the Sportster front end on an FL frame. They ate
seals.
In 71 they also changed the spec for the main shaft bearing in the
FL/FX transmission (did not account for thrust load) and they went
bad.
There were lots of growing pains in the early AMF years.
It was a good time to be a Harley mechanic tho ;-)

Harley was good about putting out scrap those years. A friend of mine worked for AMF and got an 80 Glide at cost. (benefit of the company) and it always smoked. Finally a dealer tore it down and it had rings missing on the back piston.

Typical UAW workers before the japs handed them their ass.

The thing always dripped oil and the speedo was way off. All from the factory.

Harleys are supposed to "drip oil". If it is excessive, back off on
the chain oiler.
Lots of guys turned it off completely but they usually did not
manually oil the chain and ended up with bad chains and sprockets.

BTW, yes the Superglide front forks. A lot of them starting cracking right below the triple tree. It's amazing how some feel that HD is still such a glorious motorcycle. Then again, the "Big four" Japanese have had models to copy HD's for years. go figure

Harley was always a state of mind thing more than just owning the most
high tech bike. The old ones also had the advantage that they did use
a lot of off the shelf industrial parts so you might find what you
needed in a feed store in fumbuck idaho. (AKA "tractor parts").

I used to have a pretty good list of parts that were generic "counter
store" items. They were always going to be less than the dealer and in
a lot of cases very much less.

"Harleys are supposed to "drip oil"."

Not from the bottom of the crank case and front head...



I think Harley did a lot of work to clean up quality control issues
following the AMF disaster. The last two I owned (a 2000 Ultra Classic
and a 2007 Ultra Classic) had no issues and didn't leak a drop.

That's true Richard. The advent of CNC and GAD/CAM made a huge difference as well. What gets me is that the Japanese bikes did so much better with quality control. When HD started making good stuff it barely competed with the Japanese products 20 years previously built.