We are from the government and here to help
 

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 09:53:20 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 1/25/16 9:08 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/25/2016 7:08 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:59:43 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:20:58 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:


You of course miss the point. The point is that it is a governmental
requirement in this country to provide potable water. The Republican
led
government of Michigan failed Flint.

So did the democrat led EPA. You keep glazing over that.

And the Democrat mayor.


Harry has a special, custom app that absolves any any and all Democrats.


The Republican governor of Michigan has total charge and complete
responsibility for Flint. He controls it. There's an interesting news
story circulating that states the Detroit water company was willing to
cut Flint a terrific deal on the price of water, one that would have
avoided using the Flint river, but the governor nixed that because he
wants to put financial pressure on the publicly owned Detroit company in
order to privatize it.

Krausesheisse.

The Flint mayor, the Democrat, controls Flint. You're full of poo poo.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

We are from the government and here to help
 

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 06:28:15 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/24/16 10:52 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 21:46:10 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/24/16 9:41 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 19:37:26 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:



SNERK.

Maybe you should read this and see how they got to 2014
It is certainly more complicated than just the receiver saving a few
bucks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_...source_in_2014


I don't need Wikipedia to know what happened in Flint, and how the
situation got worse under Governor Snyder. I still have political
friends in Michigan.

Good, then you know this cluster**** started in 2010 when Jennifer was
the governor.

Are you sure it's not Harry Truman's fault?


The current governor there is guilty of malfeasance and nonfeasance, and
the state will face huge lawsuits.

There is plenty of blame to go around here. The governor is not the
one who decided where they were going to get their water when Detroit
(DWSD) cut them off.
It is clear you are just parroting the DNC line while ignoring the
fact that the receiver was working directly for the state treasurer
who is a democrat. The decisions were being made by the city council
and only "approved" by the receiver.
Why don't you do a little research and stop getting all of your news
from your left wing blogs. Take the Wiki and run down the foot notes
for a start. It is well referenced.

We are from the government and here to help
 

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 07:08:54 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:59:43 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:20:58 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:


You of course miss the point. The point is that it is a governmental
requirement in this country to provide potable water. The Republican led
government of Michigan failed Flint.

So did the democrat led EPA. You keep glazing over that.

And the Democrat mayor.

.... and the democrat state treasurer who the receiver works for.

You have to ignore a **** load of democrats in the chain of command
to get to the governor.

We are from the government and here to help
 

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 09:53:20 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/25/16 9:08 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/25/2016 7:08 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:59:43 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:20:58 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:


You of course miss the point. The point is that it is a governmental
requirement in this country to provide potable water. The Republican
led
government of Michigan failed Flint.

So did the democrat led EPA. You keep glazing over that.

And the Democrat mayor.


Harry has a special, custom app that absolves any any and all Democrats.


The Republican governor of Michigan has total charge and complete
responsibility for Flint. He controls it. There's an interesting news
story circulating that states the Detroit water company was willing to
cut Flint a terrific deal on the price of water, one that would have
avoided using the Flint river, but the governor nixed that because he
wants to put financial pressure on the publicly owned Detroit company in
order to privatize it.

You either ignore or are ignorant of the fact that Genessee County was
developing it's own pipe to lake Huron and the Flint City council was
going with that water district. That ****ed off Detroit and they cut
Flint out over it. The offer was AFTER this mess war revealed.
I understand you have little interest in letting facts get in the way
of your rant but all of this started when Granholm was the governor
and she was fine with it.
You also do not want to acknowledge that the Flint river pipe was
already in place (for many years) and approved by the feds, the state
and the county. The EPA said it was OK to use that water and the local
director was forced to resign over it along with the county health
department director when this came out.

Perhaps you should read something that is not put out by your party in
an election year. This has been going on for well over 5 years and
there is plenty of information out there for the intellectually
curious

We are from the government and here to help
 

In article ,
says...


You have to ignore a **** load of democrats in the chain of command
to get to the governor.

You don't get involved at all with local politics with
something like this.
The EPA fell down on the job. It's on them.

We are from the government and here to help
 

wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 09:53:20 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/25/16 9:08 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/25/2016 7:08 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:59:43 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:20:58 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:


You of course miss the point. The point is that it is a governmental
requirement in this country to provide potable water. The Republican
led
government of Michigan failed Flint.

So did the democrat led EPA. You keep glazing over that.

And the Democrat mayor.


Harry has a special, custom app that absolves any any and all Democrats.


The Republican governor of Michigan has total charge and complete
responsibility for Flint. He controls it. There's an interesting news
story circulating that states the Detroit water company was willing to
cut Flint a terrific deal on the price of water, one that would have
avoided using the Flint river, but the governor nixed that because he
wants to put financial pressure on the publicly owned Detroit company in
order to privatize it.

You either ignore or are ignorant of the fact that Genessee County was
developing it's own pipe to lake Huron and the Flint City council was
going with that water district. That ****ed off Detroit and they cut
Flint out over it. The offer was AFTER this mess war revealed.
I understand you have little interest in letting facts get in the way
of your rant but all of this started when Granholm was the governor
and she was fine with it.
You also do not want to acknowledge that the Flint river pipe was
already in place (for many years) and approved by the feds, the state
and the county. The EPA said it was OK to use that water and the local
director was forced to resign over it along with the county health
department director when this came out.

Perhaps you should read something that is not put out by your party in
an election year. This has been going on for well over 5 years and
there is plenty of information out there for the intellectually
curious


Maybe that is the problem with Liberal Arts degrees. Is to parrot others,
unlike science degrees, which encourage intellectual curiosity.

We are from the government and here to help
 

Califbill billnews wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 09:53:20 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/25/16 9:08 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/25/2016 7:08 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:59:43 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:20:58 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:


You of course miss the point. The point is that it is a governmental
requirement in this country to provide potable water. The Republican
led
government of Michigan failed Flint.

So did the democrat led EPA. You keep glazing over that.

And the Democrat mayor.


Harry has a special, custom app that absolves any any and all Democrats.


The Republican governor of Michigan has total charge and complete
responsibility for Flint. He controls it. There's an interesting news
story circulating that states the Detroit water company was willing to
cut Flint a terrific deal on the price of water, one that would have
avoided using the Flint river, but the governor nixed that because he
wants to put financial pressure on the publicly owned Detroit company in
order to privatize it.

You either ignore or are ignorant of the fact that Genessee County was
developing it's own pipe to lake Huron and the Flint City council was
going with that water district. That ****ed off Detroit and they cut
Flint out over it. The offer was AFTER this mess war revealed.
I understand you have little interest in letting facts get in the way
of your rant but all of this started when Granholm was the governor
and she was fine with it.
You also do not want to acknowledge that the Flint river pipe was
already in place (for many years) and approved by the feds, the state
and the county. The EPA said it was OK to use that water and the local
director was forced to resign over it along with the county health
department director when this came out.

Perhaps you should read something that is not put out by your party in
an election year. This has been going on for well over 5 years and
there is plenty of information out there for the intellectually
curious


Maybe that is the problem with Liberal Arts degrees. Is to parrot others,
unlike science degrees, which encourage intellectual curiosity.



In the end the facts will end up crucifying Snyder. The buck stops on his
desk.

--
Sent from my iPhone 6+

We are from the government and here to help
 

On 1/25/2016 12:58 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
Califbill billnews wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 09:53:20 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/25/16 9:08 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/25/2016 7:08 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:59:43 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:20:58 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:


You of course miss the point. The point is that it is a governmental
requirement in this country to provide potable water. The Republican
led
government of Michigan failed Flint.

So did the democrat led EPA. You keep glazing over that.

And the Democrat mayor.


Harry has a special, custom app that absolves any any and all Democrats.


The Republican governor of Michigan has total charge and complete
responsibility for Flint. He controls it. There's an interesting news
story circulating that states the Detroit water company was willing to
cut Flint a terrific deal on the price of water, one that would have
avoided using the Flint river, but the governor nixed that because he
wants to put financial pressure on the publicly owned Detroit company in
order to privatize it.

You either ignore or are ignorant of the fact that Genessee County was
developing it's own pipe to lake Huron and the Flint City council was
going with that water district. That ****ed off Detroit and they cut
Flint out over it. The offer was AFTER this mess war revealed.
I understand you have little interest in letting facts get in the way
of your rant but all of this started when Granholm was the governor
and she was fine with it.
You also do not want to acknowledge that the Flint river pipe was
already in place (for many years) and approved by the feds, the state
and the county. The EPA said it was OK to use that water and the local
director was forced to resign over it along with the county health
department director when this came out.

Perhaps you should read something that is not put out by your party in
an election year. This has been going on for well over 5 years and
there is plenty of information out there for the intellectually
curious


Maybe that is the problem with Liberal Arts degrees. Is to parrot others,
unlike science degrees, which encourage intellectual curiosity.



In the end the facts will end up crucifying Snyder. The buck stops on his
desk.


When it comes to blame from a political perspective who is crucified is
usually a result of what side makes the most noise, not the facts. As
Greg has aptly pointed out, the blame for this fiasco is shared across
the political spectrum and by town, state and federal agencies. Why
not just be honest and say that both the government and politics screwed
this one up?

We are from the government and here to help
 

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 10:07:46 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...


You have to ignore a **** load of democrats in the chain of command
to get to the governor.

You don't get involved at all with local politics with
something like this.
The EPA fell down on the job. It's on them.


The blame goes from Flint city hall to DC. Why was the Flint River
designated as the back up water supply if it was so dangerous? That
traced it's roots back for decades. Most of that lead pipe is almost
100 years old

We are from the government and here to help
 

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 12:58:51 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:



In the end the facts will end up crucifying Snyder. The buck stops on his
desk.

Unfortunately, for the democrats, Snyder does not seem to be
implicated much at all in this. The State treasurer was the guy
controlling the receiver, not the governor. He is a democrat. They are
pouring over Snyder's emails and other communications looking for the
smoking gun but, if anything, it looks like he was not involved at
all. The Flint city council and the Genesee County water officials
seem to be the people who did this. It certainly was not helpful when
Detroit terminated the agreement to use their water before the Genesee
county pipeline was finished. They were trying to stop the pipeline. I
bet your site did not tell you that.

We are from the government and here to help
 

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 13:24:02 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


When it comes to blame from a political perspective who is crucified is
usually a result of what side makes the most noise, not the facts. As
Greg has aptly pointed out, the blame for this fiasco is shared across
the political spectrum and by town, state and federal agencies. Why
not just be honest and say that both the government and politics screwed
this one up?

When I read about this and I am several hours into it so far, I blame
Detroit water. They are the ones who terminated their contract with
Flint in retaliation for Flint wanting to join Genesee County in a new
water pipe from Lake Huron (2010).

Flint wanted to buy Detroit water for the interim 30 months until
their pipe was finished and Detroit refused.
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/inde...its_termi.html

The other smoking gun was Flint having that river designated as their
backup water supply, spending a few million upgrading the plant,
before they actually understood how dangerous the "salty, low pH
water" actually was.
The interesting thing is that the water is not that salty (4ppm) and
they do not even list pH on their water test
https://www.cityofflint.com/wp-conte..._Oct-15.pdfest
The request for the water was from the Flint Mayor, I do not see any
state officers on this request.
https://www.cityofflint.com/wp-conte...t-2015-MOR.pdf

Of course there is the lead pipe that should have been replaced a half
a century ago. (or never installed in the first place) If they had
done that, this would just be a "destroyed plumbing in the homes" law
suit.
There are 160 year old studies out there, talking about the dangers of
lead pipe. Maybe the problems with the people in the big cities is
just lead poisoning their brains. I wonder if they have lead pipe in
New Haven? ;-)

We are from the government and here to help
 

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 13:24:02 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I was digging around a little more and I came up with this water
quality report from Dec 2014

They report pH at 7.41 - 8.49

Something must have changed or they lied.

We are from the government and here to help
 

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 16:03:01 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 13:24:02 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I was digging around a little more and I came up with this water
quality report from Dec 2014

They report pH at 7.41 - 8.49

Something must have changed or they lied.

sorry, here is the link

https://www.cityofflint.com/wp-conte...-Dec.-2014.pdf

We are from the government and here to help
 

Keyser Söze wrote:
Califbill billnews wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 09:53:20 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/25/16 9:08 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/25/2016 7:08 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:59:43 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:20:58 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:


You of course miss the point. The point is that it is a governmental
requirement in this country to provide potable water. The Republican
led
government of Michigan failed Flint.

So did the democrat led EPA. You keep glazing over that.

And the Democrat mayor.


Harry has a special, custom app that absolves any any and all Democrats.


The Republican governor of Michigan has total charge and complete
responsibility for Flint. He controls it. There's an interesting news
story circulating that states the Detroit water company was willing to
cut Flint a terrific deal on the price of water, one that would have
avoided using the Flint river, but the governor nixed that because he
wants to put financial pressure on the publicly owned Detroit company in
order to privatize it.

You either ignore or are ignorant of the fact that Genessee County was
developing it's own pipe to lake Huron and the Flint City council was
going with that water district. That ****ed off Detroit and they cut
Flint out over it. The offer was AFTER this mess war revealed.
I understand you have little interest in letting facts get in the way
of your rant but all of this started when Granholm was the governor
and she was fine with it.
You also do not want to acknowledge that the Flint river pipe was
already in place (for many years) and approved by the feds, the state
and the county. The EPA said it was OK to use that water and the local
director was forced to resign over it along with the county health
department director when this came out.

Perhaps you should read something that is not put out by your party in
an election year. This has been going on for well over 5 years and
there is plenty of information out there for the intellectually
curious


Maybe that is the problem with Liberal Arts degrees. Is to parrot others,
unlike science degrees, which encourage intellectual curiosity.



In the end the facts will end up crucifying Snyder. The buck stops on his
desk.


Nobody will be crucified. All those politicos will get nice bonus payments
to leave. Democrat and republican. Problem is we, the people, let the
employees screw us.

We are from the government and here to help
 

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 18:53:08 -0800, Califbill billnews wrote:


Nobody will be crucified. All those politicos will get nice bonus payments
to leave. Democrat and republican. Problem is we, the people, let the
employees screw us.

The politicians seem to have a wall of incompetent bureaucrats to hide
behind. The December 2014 water quality report from the Flint river
water plant certainly looks suspect to me because the pH level on that
test ranges from normal (7.4) to higher than normal (over 8)
The lead pipe problem was supposed to be because of low pH water.
Either they cooked the books on that water test or something egregious
happened after that. I notice that they did not list pH on the test in
2015. (it is not a regulated parameter so they do not have to)

Other people are saying it was Flint water managers who failed to put
corrosion inhibitors in the water and that is what caused the problem.

In either case, the politicians have an out. They will just say they
trusted the professional water managers to deliver safe water. Then
they will say they trusted the county health department and the EPA to
verify that the water is safe. The mangers of both of those agencies
resigned over their failures.

Since this started I have compiled a pretty good collection of
documents that point the finger back at Flint and Genesee county.

Government incompetence at it's finest.