On Wed, 6 Jan 2016 11:54:17 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Banning guns will not eliminate murder.



Of course not. But, according to this, about 69 percent of murders
committed in the USA in 2012 were done with guns. Banning them,
(which nobody, including me is advocating) would certainly have an
affect on those stats. Check out:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004888.html

I know. Murderers will just use more clubs, hammers and knives, right?

They did in Australia.

On 1/6/2016 12:36 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jan 2016 11:54:17 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Banning guns will not eliminate murder.



Of course not. But, according to this, about 69 percent of murders
committed in the USA in 2012 were done with guns. Banning them,
(which nobody, including me is advocating) would certainly have an
affect on those stats. Check out:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004888.html

I know. Murderers will just use more clubs, hammers and knives, right?

They did in Australia.



There you go! Excellent point. Since a lack of guns means that
murderers will shift to using more clubs, hammers and knives which are
a far more painful way to die, we may as well lift all restrictions on
guns since it's quick, more efficient and a more humane way to kill someone.

On Wed, 6 Jan 2016 12:52:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/6/2016 12:36 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jan 2016 11:54:17 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Banning guns will not eliminate murder.



Of course not. But, according to this, about 69 percent of murders
committed in the USA in 2012 were done with guns. Banning them,
(which nobody, including me is advocating) would certainly have an
affect on those stats. Check out:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004888.html

I know. Murderers will just use more clubs, hammers and knives, right?

They did in Australia.



There you go! Excellent point. Since a lack of guns means that
murderers will shift to using more clubs, hammers and knives which are
a far more painful way to die, we may as well lift all restrictions on
guns since it's quick, more efficient and a more humane way to kill someone.



If it doesn't change the result, why not?

In article ,
says...

On 1/6/2016 12:36 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jan 2016 11:54:17 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Banning guns will not eliminate murder.



Of course not. But, according to this, about 69 percent of murders
committed in the USA in 2012 were done with guns. Banning them,
(which nobody, including me is advocating) would certainly have an
affect on those stats. Check out:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004888.html

I know. Murderers will just use more clubs, hammers and knives, right?

They did in Australia.



There you go! Excellent point. Since a lack of guns means that
murderers will shift to using more clubs, hammers and knives which are
a far more painful way to die, we may as well lift all restrictions on
guns since it's quick, more efficient and a more humane way to kill someone.

Murder rate is down in Australia since they banned some gun
types and made it more onerous to own a gun.
But it was never high to begin with, so it can't be
compared to the U.S. The U.S. has to solve it's own
problems.
It's much easier to kill with a gun. Don't even have to
get your hands dirty when murdering. Very nice.

On Wed, 6 Jan 2016 23:22:04 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 1/6/2016 12:36 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jan 2016 11:54:17 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Banning guns will not eliminate murder.



Of course not. But, according to this, about 69 percent of murders
committed in the USA in 2012 were done with guns. Banning them,
(which nobody, including me is advocating) would certainly have an
affect on those stats. Check out:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004888.html

I know. Murderers will just use more clubs, hammers and knives, right?

They did in Australia.



There you go! Excellent point. Since a lack of guns means that
murderers will shift to using more clubs, hammers and knives which are
a far more painful way to die, we may as well lift all restrictions on
guns since it's quick, more efficient and a more humane way to kill someone.

Murder rate is down in Australia since they banned some gun

The slope of the murder rate had been going down for a decade before
the ban and it continued at about the same rate after.
The murder rate is going down here too at about the same rate and we
add a few million guns a year. The most popular rifle in the US now is
the AR15 platform in various shapes and calibers.

types and made it more onerous to own a gun.
But it was never high to begin with, so it can't be
compared to the U.S. The U.S. has to solve it's own
problems.
It's much easier to kill with a gun. Don't even have to
get your hands dirty when murdering. Very nice.

So what? If people have killing on their mind, they kill, no matter
how hard or messy it is.

Maybe we should be spending this effort trying to find out why people
kill instead to spending too much on the method.

On 1/7/2016 12:55 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jan 2016 23:22:04 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 1/6/2016 12:36 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jan 2016 11:54:17 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Banning guns will not eliminate murder.



Of course not. But, according to this, about 69 percent of murders
committed in the USA in 2012 were done with guns. Banning them,
(which nobody, including me is advocating) would certainly have an
affect on those stats. Check out:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004888.html

I know. Murderers will just use more clubs, hammers and knives, right?

They did in Australia.



There you go! Excellent point. Since a lack of guns means that
murderers will shift to using more clubs, hammers and knives which are
a far more painful way to die, we may as well lift all restrictions on
guns since it's quick, more efficient and a more humane way to kill someone.

Murder rate is down in Australia since they banned some gun

The slope of the murder rate had been going down for a decade before
the ban and it continued at about the same rate after.
The murder rate is going down here too at about the same rate and we
add a few million guns a year. The most popular rifle in the US now is
the AR15 platform in various shapes and calibers.

types and made it more onerous to own a gun.
But it was never high to begin with, so it can't be
compared to the U.S. The U.S. has to solve it's own
problems.
It's much easier to kill with a gun. Don't even have to
get your hands dirty when murdering. Very nice.

So what? If people have killing on their mind, they kill, no matter
how hard or messy it is.


Maybe we should be spending this effort trying to find out why people
kill instead to spending too much on the method.


We will likely never know *all* the reasons why people kill other people
but we know many of them. Drugs, domestic violence, crime in general,
gang wars and mental illnesses are a few. With our population growing
at a rate of one person every 16 seconds or so it is unrealistic to
think we can rehabilitate everyone with problems into law abiding
citizens. So, we have to turn to *how* many of these killings take
place. A gun is swift, easy to use, effective and puts the killer at
minimal risk. If 69 percent of murders are committed with guns, it
seems that a good place to start is to focus on keeping them out of the
hands of people known to have issues or have demonstrated violent
actions. Background checks is the only viable tool to do this right
now. So, rather than throw up our hands and say "nothing can be done",
why not try to chip away at the problem, especially when it has
virtually no affect on those who have not demonstrated any of the
warning signs of violent behavior ?

On Thu, 7 Jan 2016 02:15:28 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/7/2016 12:55 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jan 2016 23:22:04 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 1/6/2016 12:36 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jan 2016 11:54:17 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Banning guns will not eliminate murder.



Of course not. But, according to this, about 69 percent of murders
committed in the USA in 2012 were done with guns. Banning them,
(which nobody, including me is advocating) would certainly have an
affect on those stats. Check out:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004888.html

I know. Murderers will just use more clubs, hammers and knives, right?

They did in Australia.



There you go! Excellent point. Since a lack of guns means that
murderers will shift to using more clubs, hammers and knives which are
a far more painful way to die, we may as well lift all restrictions on
guns since it's quick, more efficient and a more humane way to kill someone.

Murder rate is down in Australia since they banned some gun

The slope of the murder rate had been going down for a decade before
the ban and it continued at about the same rate after.
The murder rate is going down here too at about the same rate and we
add a few million guns a year. The most popular rifle in the US now is
the AR15 platform in various shapes and calibers.

types and made it more onerous to own a gun.
But it was never high to begin with, so it can't be
compared to the U.S. The U.S. has to solve it's own
problems.
It's much easier to kill with a gun. Don't even have to
get your hands dirty when murdering. Very nice.

So what? If people have killing on their mind, they kill, no matter
how hard or messy it is.


Maybe we should be spending this effort trying to find out why people
kill instead to spending too much on the method.


We will likely never know *all* the reasons why people kill other people
but we know many of them. Drugs, domestic violence, crime in general,
gang wars and mental illnesses are a few. With our population growing
at a rate of one person every 16 seconds or so it is unrealistic to
think we can rehabilitate everyone with problems into law abiding
citizens. So, we have to turn to *how* many of these killings take
place. A gun is swift, easy to use, effective and puts the killer at
minimal risk. If 69 percent of murders are committed with guns, it
seems that a good place to start is to focus on keeping them out of the
hands of people known to have issues or have demonstrated violent
actions. Background checks is the only viable tool to do this right
now. So, rather than throw up our hands and say "nothing can be done",
why not try to chip away at the problem, especially when it has
virtually no affect on those who have not demonstrated any of the
warning signs of violent behavior ?


So "do something, even if it doesn't help" is your answer?
Remember the places with the most murders are also the places with the
strictest gun laws. I see very little in cost to benefit here.