In article ,
says...

On 1/3/2016 9:14 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...


Which brings us back to a often forgotten fact. The "great recession"
that began on Sept 15th, 2008 was not the result of GWB economic
policies or even his spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The
gunpowder that ignited the recession and near collapse of the economy
was the real estate bubble burst that left banks holding worthless
loans. This was a direct result of Clinton era economic policies with
help from people like Barney Frank. He's smart. He exited stage left
when the heat started getting too hot.

You're insulting the facts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwPG-7FTkyM

I can't even count the times I heard GWB crowing about
"home ownership".


On who's watch did the sub-prime loan fiasco start?


On GWB's watch. With a Republican Congress.
You already forgot?

http://www.federalreservehistory.org.../DetailView/55
"In the early and mid-2000s, high-risk mortgages became
available from lenders who funded mortgages by repackaging
them into pools that were sold to investors. New financial
products were used to apportion these risks, with private-
label mortgage-backed securities (PMBS) providing most of
the funding of subprime mortgages."

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/a...w-we-got-into-
the-subprime-lending-mess/
"The looser credit standards of the past decade brought a
mortgage boom, with Americans holding 2.5 times as much
mortgage debt in 2005 as in 1997, a period when gross
domestic product grew by just 50%, Wachter and Green say.
Subprime mortgages made up 22% of new loans in 2005,
compared to 8% in 2003, and in 2004 more than 30% of all
mortgages carried adjustable rates, up from about 10% in
2001."

It's true GBW didn't recognize the impending problem it caused
and didn't stop it but it originated with Clinton, lead in good
part by Barney Frank. Frank later denied ownership of the concept
when the **** hit the fan of course.

Yeah, sure. And the Founding Fathers started it all.
So it's all their fault.
I don't why you blame Bill Clinton and Barney Frank, but
hey, be my guest. It won't do anything good for you, except
maybe give you a false "axis of evil" to focus on.
BTW, Freddie/Fannie didn't cause the crisis - it was the
private mortgage market, and Wall Street.
Makes me wonder where you've been the last 10 years.

Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 1/3/2016 9:14 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...


Which brings us back to a often forgotten fact. The "great recession"
that began on Sept 15th, 2008 was not the result of GWB economic
policies or even his spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The
gunpowder that ignited the recession and near collapse of the economy
was the real estate bubble burst that left banks holding worthless
loans. This was a direct result of Clinton era economic policies with
help from people like Barney Frank. He's smart. He exited stage left
when the heat started getting too hot.

You're insulting the facts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwPG-7FTkyM

I can't even count the times I heard GWB crowing about
"home ownership".


On who's watch did the sub-prime loan fiasco start?


On GWB's watch. With a Republican Congress.
You already forgot?

http://www.federalreservehistory.org.../DetailView/55
"In the early and mid-2000s, high-risk mortgages became
available from lenders who funded mortgages by repackaging
them into pools that were sold to investors. New financial
products were used to apportion these risks, with private-
label mortgage-backed securities (PMBS) providing most of
the funding of subprime mortgages."

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/a...w-we-got-into-
the-subprime-lending-mess/
"The looser credit standards of the past decade brought a
mortgage boom, with Americans holding 2.5 times as much
mortgage debt in 2005 as in 1997, a period when gross
domestic product grew by just 50%, Wachter and Green say.
Subprime mortgages made up 22% of new loans in 2005,
compared to 8% in 2003, and in 2004 more than 30% of all
mortgages carried adjustable rates, up from about 10% in
2001."

It's true GBW didn't recognize the impending problem it caused
and didn't stop it but it originated with Clinton, lead in good
part by Barney Frank. Frank later denied ownership of the concept
when the **** hit the fan of course.

Yeah, sure. And the Founding Fathers started it all.
So it's all their fault.
I don't why you blame Bill Clinton and Barney Frank, but
hey, be my guest. It won't do anything good for you, except
maybe give you a false "axis of evil" to focus on.
BTW, Freddie/Fannie didn't cause the crisis - it was the
private mortgage market, and Wall Street.
Makes me wonder where you've been the last 10 years.



It was Fannie / Freddie and Wall Street. Wall Street and the banks were
able to do the dastardly deeds for 2 reasons. Clinton signing
deregulation of banks and brokerages, and FannieFredie buying all the crap
mortgages. Raines should have paid back all the $100 million he and his
number 2 got in phony bookkeeping bonus and gone to jail!

On 1/4/2016 12:26 AM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 1/3/2016 9:14 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...


Which brings us back to a often forgotten fact. The "great recession"
that began on Sept 15th, 2008 was not the result of GWB economic
policies or even his spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The
gunpowder that ignited the recession and near collapse of the economy
was the real estate bubble burst that left banks holding worthless
loans. This was a direct result of Clinton era economic policies with
help from people like Barney Frank. He's smart. He exited stage left
when the heat started getting too hot.

You're insulting the facts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwPG-7FTkyM

I can't even count the times I heard GWB crowing about
"home ownership".


On who's watch did the sub-prime loan fiasco start?


On GWB's watch. With a Republican Congress.
You already forgot?

http://www.federalreservehistory.org.../DetailView/55
"In the early and mid-2000s, high-risk mortgages became
available from lenders who funded mortgages by repackaging
them into pools that were sold to investors. New financial
products were used to apportion these risks, with private-
label mortgage-backed securities (PMBS) providing most of
the funding of subprime mortgages."

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/a...w-we-got-into-
the-subprime-lending-mess/
"The looser credit standards of the past decade brought a
mortgage boom, with Americans holding 2.5 times as much
mortgage debt in 2005 as in 1997, a period when gross
domestic product grew by just 50%, Wachter and Green say.
Subprime mortgages made up 22% of new loans in 2005,
compared to 8% in 2003, and in 2004 more than 30% of all
mortgages carried adjustable rates, up from about 10% in
2001."

It's true GBW didn't recognize the impending problem it caused
and didn't stop it but it originated with Clinton, lead in good
part by Barney Frank. Frank later denied ownership of the concept
when the **** hit the fan of course.

Yeah, sure. And the Founding Fathers started it all.
So it's all their fault.
I don't why you blame Bill Clinton and Barney Frank, but
hey, be my guest. It won't do anything good for you, except
maybe give you a false "axis of evil" to focus on.
BTW, Freddie/Fannie didn't cause the crisis - it was the
private mortgage market, and Wall Street.
Makes me wonder where you've been the last 10 years.


You can't be serious. The origins that led to the housing market
collapse in 2008 started in 1995 ... more like 21 years ago, not 10.
Actually, you could say that it started even before that under GHWB's
term except it was Clinton who put pressure on Fannie May to increase
the ratio of low income, higher risk loans. Barney Frank had much to do
with this. Clinton rewrote the Community Reinvestment Act, which put
added pressure on banks to lend in low-income neighborhoods.

The balloon that was about to burst wasn't obvious until about 2006 when
some financial and mortgage experts began to warn of a crash.
Until then, housing prices were going up by 15, 20 percent or more.
Don't you remember all the house "flippers" that were operating then?

On 1/4/2016 1:15 AM, Califbill wrote:
Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 1/3/2016 9:14 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...


Which brings us back to a often forgotten fact. The "great recession"
that began on Sept 15th, 2008 was not the result of GWB economic
policies or even his spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The
gunpowder that ignited the recession and near collapse of the economy
was the real estate bubble burst that left banks holding worthless
loans. This was a direct result of Clinton era economic policies with
help from people like Barney Frank. He's smart. He exited stage left
when the heat started getting too hot.

You're insulting the facts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwPG-7FTkyM

I can't even count the times I heard GWB crowing about
"home ownership".


On who's watch did the sub-prime loan fiasco start?


On GWB's watch. With a Republican Congress.
You already forgot?

http://www.federalreservehistory.org.../DetailView/55
"In the early and mid-2000s, high-risk mortgages became
available from lenders who funded mortgages by repackaging
them into pools that were sold to investors. New financial
products were used to apportion these risks, with private-
label mortgage-backed securities (PMBS) providing most of
the funding of subprime mortgages."

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/a...w-we-got-into-
the-subprime-lending-mess/
"The looser credit standards of the past decade brought a
mortgage boom, with Americans holding 2.5 times as much
mortgage debt in 2005 as in 1997, a period when gross
domestic product grew by just 50%, Wachter and Green say.
Subprime mortgages made up 22% of new loans in 2005,
compared to 8% in 2003, and in 2004 more than 30% of all
mortgages carried adjustable rates, up from about 10% in
2001."

It's true GBW didn't recognize the impending problem it caused
and didn't stop it but it originated with Clinton, lead in good
part by Barney Frank. Frank later denied ownership of the concept
when the **** hit the fan of course.

Yeah, sure. And the Founding Fathers started it all.
So it's all their fault.
I don't why you blame Bill Clinton and Barney Frank, but
hey, be my guest. It won't do anything good for you, except
maybe give you a false "axis of evil" to focus on.
BTW, Freddie/Fannie didn't cause the crisis - it was the
private mortgage market, and Wall Street.
Makes me wonder where you've been the last 10 years.



It was Fannie / Freddie and Wall Street. Wall Street and the banks were
able to do the dastardly deeds for 2 reasons. Clinton signing
deregulation of banks and brokerages, and FannieFredie buying all the crap
mortgages. Raines should have paid back all the $100 million he and his
number 2 got in phony bookkeeping bonus and gone to jail!



Amazing how history becomes rewritten in Boating All Out's mind.

Anyone can cherry pick articles about certain time periods or about
certain policies in place but you have to look at the whole picture
to get the correct story.

On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 23:26:32 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 1/3/2016 9:14 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...


Which brings us back to a often forgotten fact. The "great recession"
that began on Sept 15th, 2008 was not the result of GWB economic
policies or even his spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The
gunpowder that ignited the recession and near collapse of the economy
was the real estate bubble burst that left banks holding worthless
loans. This was a direct result of Clinton era economic policies with
help from people like Barney Frank. He's smart. He exited stage left
when the heat started getting too hot.

You're insulting the facts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwPG-7FTkyM

I can't even count the times I heard GWB crowing about
"home ownership".


On who's watch did the sub-prime loan fiasco start?


On GWB's watch. With a Republican Congress.
You already forgot?

http://www.federalreservehistory.org.../DetailView/55
"In the early and mid-2000s, high-risk mortgages became
available from lenders who funded mortgages by repackaging
them into pools that were sold to investors. New financial
products were used to apportion these risks, with private-
label mortgage-backed securities (PMBS) providing most of
the funding of subprime mortgages."

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/a...w-we-got-into-
the-subprime-lending-mess/
"The looser credit standards of the past decade brought a
mortgage boom, with Americans holding 2.5 times as much
mortgage debt in 2005 as in 1997, a period when gross
domestic product grew by just 50%, Wachter and Green say.
Subprime mortgages made up 22% of new loans in 2005,
compared to 8% in 2003, and in 2004 more than 30% of all
mortgages carried adjustable rates, up from about 10% in
2001."

It's true GBW didn't recognize the impending problem it caused
and didn't stop it but it originated with Clinton, lead in good
part by Barney Frank. Frank later denied ownership of the concept
when the **** hit the fan of course.

Yeah, sure. And the Founding Fathers started it all.
So it's all their fault.
I don't why you blame Bill Clinton and Barney Frank, but
hey, be my guest. It won't do anything good for you, except
maybe give you a false "axis of evil" to focus on.
BTW, Freddie/Fannie didn't cause the crisis - it was the
private mortgage market, and Wall Street.
Makes me wonder where you've been the last 10 years.

Who deregulated the industry and allowed all of that to happen?

On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 05:17:56 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The balloon that was about to burst wasn't obvious until about 2006

That is not true of everyone. You can take a look at "the big short"
but more personally, I know that the guys who ran Centex (builders)
knew this was hokey in 2004 and they were not building spec houses
(AKA "inventory") even then. The customer needed to have a contract
with at least $50k down before they started building, in spite of the
fact that houses were sold in a lottery at the time. They also avoided
"investors" as much as possible. (only one home per customer was the
goal)

The owners (Hannigan and Ellers) sold the business right before it
crashed. I sold my stock when that happened at a pretty nice profit.

In article ,
says...


You can't be serious. The origins that led to the housing market
collapse in 2008 started in 1995 ... more like 21 years ago, not 10.
Actually, you could say that it started even before that under GHWB's
term except it was Clinton who put pressure on Fannie May to increase
the ratio of low income, higher risk loans. Barney Frank had much to do
with this. Clinton rewrote the Community Reinvestment Act, which put
added pressure on banks to lend in low-income neighborhoods.

The balloon that was about to burst wasn't obvious until about 2006 when
some financial and mortgage experts began to warn of a crash.
Until then, housing prices were going up by 15, 20 percent or more.
Don't you remember all the house "flippers" that were operating then?

Yeah, yeah. The first successful semi-auto rifle was made
by Ferdinand Ritter von Mannlicher.
He is responsible for the all the terrorist mass murders
using semi-auto rifles. Evil man.
Give me a break. Come back with some FACTS.
You can start here as a primer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financ...is_of_2007%E2%
80%9308
It covers the CRA too.
Or you can play footsie with califbill, if he's your speed.
I really don't give a ****.
Dyed-in-the-wool Republicans will always blame Clinton and
Frank for everything, because it tickles their fancy.
Fine by me. Whatever floats your boat.

On 1/4/2016 7:21 AM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...


You can't be serious. The origins that led to the housing market
collapse in 2008 started in 1995 ... more like 21 years ago, not 10.
Actually, you could say that it started even before that under GHWB's
term except it was Clinton who put pressure on Fannie May to increase
the ratio of low income, higher risk loans. Barney Frank had much to do
with this. Clinton rewrote the Community Reinvestment Act, which put
added pressure on banks to lend in low-income neighborhoods.

The balloon that was about to burst wasn't obvious until about 2006 when
some financial and mortgage experts began to warn of a crash.
Until then, housing prices were going up by 15, 20 percent or more.
Don't you remember all the house "flippers" that were operating then?

Yeah, yeah. The first successful semi-auto rifle was made
by Ferdinand Ritter von Mannlicher.
He is responsible for the all the terrorist mass murders
using semi-auto rifles. Evil man.
Give me a break. Come back with some FACTS.
You can start here as a primer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financ...is_of_2007%E2%
80%9308
It covers the CRA too.
Or you can play footsie with califbill, if he's your speed.
I really don't give a ****.
Dyed-in-the-wool Republicans will always blame Clinton and
Frank for everything, because it tickles their fancy.
Fine by me. Whatever floats your boat.


Thank you for understanding.
You might want to read up on the history of Freddie and Fanny.

On 1/4/2016 7:02 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 23:26:32 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 1/3/2016 9:14 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...


Which brings us back to a often forgotten fact. The "great recession"
that began on Sept 15th, 2008 was not the result of GWB economic
policies or even his spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The
gunpowder that ignited the recession and near collapse of the economy
was the real estate bubble burst that left banks holding worthless
loans. This was a direct result of Clinton era economic policies with
help from people like Barney Frank. He's smart. He exited stage left
when the heat started getting too hot.

You're insulting the facts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwPG-7FTkyM

I can't even count the times I heard GWB crowing about
"home ownership".


On who's watch did the sub-prime loan fiasco start?


On GWB's watch. With a Republican Congress.
You already forgot?

http://www.federalreservehistory.org.../DetailView/55
"In the early and mid-2000s, high-risk mortgages became
available from lenders who funded mortgages by repackaging
them into pools that were sold to investors. New financial
products were used to apportion these risks, with private-
label mortgage-backed securities (PMBS) providing most of
the funding of subprime mortgages."

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/a...w-we-got-into-
the-subprime-lending-mess/
"The looser credit standards of the past decade brought a
mortgage boom, with Americans holding 2.5 times as much
mortgage debt in 2005 as in 1997, a period when gross
domestic product grew by just 50%, Wachter and Green say.
Subprime mortgages made up 22% of new loans in 2005,
compared to 8% in 2003, and in 2004 more than 30% of all
mortgages carried adjustable rates, up from about 10% in
2001."

It's true GBW didn't recognize the impending problem it caused
and didn't stop it but it originated with Clinton, lead in good
part by Barney Frank. Frank later denied ownership of the concept
when the **** hit the fan of course.

Yeah, sure. And the Founding Fathers started it all.
So it's all their fault.
I don't why you blame Bill Clinton and Barney Frank, but
hey, be my guest. It won't do anything good for you, except
maybe give you a false "axis of evil" to focus on.
BTW, Freddie/Fannie didn't cause the crisis - it was the
private mortgage market, and Wall Street.
Makes me wonder where you've been the last 10 years.

Who deregulated the industry and allowed all of that to happen?



What is funny about it was that Clinton (Bill) was not totally on board
with the deregulation and pressure on banks to relax lending practices.
He caved under pressure from fellow Democrats including Barney.

On 1/4/2016 7:12 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 05:17:56 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The balloon that was about to burst wasn't obvious until about 2006

That is not true of everyone. You can take a look at "the big short"
but more personally, I know that the guys who ran Centex (builders)
knew this was hokey in 2004 and they were not building spec houses
(AKA "inventory") even then. The customer needed to have a contract
with at least $50k down before they started building, in spite of the
fact that houses were sold in a lottery at the time. They also avoided
"investors" as much as possible. (only one home per customer was the
goal)

The owners (Hannigan and Ellers) sold the business right before it
crashed. I sold my stock when that happened at a pretty nice profit.


That's true. When we bought the two properties we had in Florida, one
in 2001 and the other a few months later from a neighbor who was
investing heavily into real estate in order to "flip" them. His wife
was a real estate agent. FlaJim will remember him and the two properties
we had.

At the time property values in the area of Jupiter we were in were going
up by about 21 percent annually. My neighbor tried talking me into
joining him into making flip investments. I wasn't an economic genius
(still aren't) but my conservative nature and hunch was that the boom
wasn't going to last. I was right. We sold the second property we
bought in 2003 for about what we paid for it following one of the
hurricanes that caused some damage ... mostly to the large pool
enclosure. We made out well on the other house when we sold it though.
Bought it for $465K in 2001 and sold it for $1M in 2004, just before
the market started cooling off in advance of the crash. It was the last
house in that gated community that sold for quite a while. Last I knew
it had been sold again a few years later for under $500k.